9972 réponses à ce sujet

[opheliac_x]

Delurking for a quick minute just to express my appreciation for this post (and others). I have been following these forums like a hawk pretty much the second I finished the game and, in a haze of confusion and a little bit of anger, wondered if any one else felt like I did.
I have sympathy for the ME team. If I put innumerable hours of labor into something like this game, I would certainly be hurt that there is such a reaction to it as this. But the moment you release your work into the wild, you have to accept that they are going to say whatever they want to about it.
But I am so happy that there are so many people coming together in such civil discourse over the matter. Makes me hopeful.

Bottom line: I don't want to be unhappy with the ending. I have been playing the series for ages, and haven't had an issue until now. I trusted BioWare, and I WANT to keep trusting them. But, just as they've given me the hard decisions to make in game, I am making the difficult decision right now on whether I will be able to trust them again. I am wary, to say the least.

tl;dr- Thank you, guys, for being here.

Gonna relurk and read.

[Comguard2]

So it took us two weeks to make the Co-founder of Bioware tell us that at least "something" will happen?

I would count this as a success.

Now we have to focus on the "something".

[rfrombrazil]

Well, I'm still pretty much holding the line. This is not a good day for smoke and mirrors from Bioware.

[Takibanazaki]

DrkCntry wrote...

Takibanazaki wrote...

DrkCntry wrote...

Takibanazaki wrote...

Just a quick note, check http://investor.ea.com/stockquote.cfm the end should clarify why Mr Muzyka had to adress the situation.

That actually says nothing....<_<

Dropping stocks, wich where in a climb since ME3 launch don't say nothing?

When it reaches near the 52-week low, then it might say something...this is no different than any spike for major release.

Oh, thank you for clarifying your point. 

[Scia52]

 I think we've won because Ray said"
Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April."

They directly say that they're working on ending content this isn't non-commitial like before. If you read between the lines you can see that can't get out of making ending content now. 

[din626]

musicaleCA wrote...

Wowlock wrote...

I won't be fooled by them again. I will wait until I see what this content will carry.
I will look for an ACTUALY review and not a paid-off one until I decide to buy it.

Maybe a few of us forum members should take the lead and publically pledge to try-out major DLC and review it. Then other members can read them to have a different view. An admittedly somewhat biased view, but biased in favour of the gamers, not in favour of the publishers.

Tell you what. I'll take that kind of hit. I will even shove myself on camera to talk about it if folks want.

[Lil One]

Enichan wrote...

Off topic, but I'm not sure why the face import bug is still being put forward as such a big point against Bioware when there's been a user implemented fix since day 1.

...which doesn't really work for all, and is a core element of the series; playing your own Shepard.  Another promise not fulfilled.

[MintyCool]

Comguard2 wrote...

So it took us two weeks to make the Co-founder of Bioware tell us that at least "something" will happen?

I would count this as a success.

Now we have to focus on the "something".

Changes are here! April cant come soon enough!

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10396384

[OriginalTibs]

What is (are?) 'Marauder Shields'?

[UprightMan]

Takibanazaki wrote...

DrkCntry wrote...

Takibanazaki wrote...

Just a quick note, check http://investor.ea.com/stockquote.cfm the end should clarify why Mr Muzyka had to adress the situation.

That actually says nothing....<_<

Dropping stocks, wich where in a climb since ME3 launch don't say nothing?

I agree with DrkCntry, this says nothing without context. EA is too big with many game studios under its corporate umbrella to have 1 game say affect it directly, again without context.

More telling would be the week 1 and week 2 sales figures, actual versus projected for ME3.  Even going so far as comparing it to week 1+2 of ME2 sales figures, for historical comparsion sake.  

[DrkCntry]

Takibanazaki wrote...
Oh, thank you for clarifying your point. 

Should probably also add that people brought out the stock 'drop' at EA when TOR was released...it didn't actually hurt EA's stock as much as the general nature of the market did.

[Sashimi_taco]

I will be very displeased if they try to cop out and try to explain why the endings are good.

The endings are a slap in the face to morality and are completely misguided. It is as if the writers have no concept of what genocide, forced manipulation of someone else's body, and brain washing are. They are giving the message that the tactics of conquerers and dictators have been doing for thousands of years are the correct solutions to war. This is beyond sickening.

Modifié par Sashimi_taco, 21 mars 2012 - 06:49 .

[Chronor]

Lugaidster wrote...

Chronor wrote...

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

I'm rather disappointed with Mr. Muzyka. By now, most keeping up with this thread would have seen this blog post. While I respect them taking an "artistic" stance on this issue, he's very careful in not addressing what I find to be a core issue of contention. That is, where are my numerous "wildly" different endings?

Many times he's pointedly stating "endings" in his blog, but for those of us who have finished recognize, for all intents and purposes, there is only ONE "ending." It sounds to me that any new content planned to address this issue will really be more of an epilogue. This is satisfying to a degree, but I'm still (or will be) bummed if they do not choose to give us the other "wildly" different endings as previously promised. After all, that would inherently guarantee replay and generate continued interest in their product. Maybe I'm missing something....

Till then, I will be Holding the Line!

To be fair, do you expect them to surrender any and all defense to their own work? They will, at some capacity, defend their decisions. That's just a fact. And with regards to the "wildly different endings", it was always going to be subjective. If anything, the only mistake they did was to say wildly. Your interpretation is very different than mine on that issue, and both could be different than someone else's. 

I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but rather stay objective. And I would lose a lot of respect for the guy if he suddenly threw all his workers under the bus. We have to approach the middle ground cauteously from both sides here, one moves too fast and the other one will take a clear advantage.

To answer your question, no I do not.  BW are the creators, so they have a right to defend however they see fit.  However, I am fascinated as to how this will play out.  I usually take advert promises with a grain of salt, but I had more faith in BW to deliver their promises based upon my own personal experiences - e.g., KOTOR, DAO (not completed), Jade Empire.  Another reason why the ending hurt. 

When I saw the interview on gaming sites and some links in the forums, I was psyched that at the end of ME3, I will be experiencing one of various different  endings that reflected my decisions made from my ME2 import.  In my mind, the endings were realistically going to range somewhere up to 16, NOT 3 or less, taking into account creativity, technical issues and time constraints of the producers and developers.  Based upon my EMS, I expected some of my squad to die before I reached the space magic beam.  I could go on.  Unfortunately, BW did not deliver, and like a lot of people here, that tarnished the franchise.

I'm holding the line to see how all this plays out, for good or ill.  The faith from the fan base has been shaken, and if BW/EA wants to keep us, then they better have some good explanations or compromises.  Anything less tells me that my financial and emotional investment (for the franchise) was wasted.

Modifié par Chronor, 21 mars 2012 - 06:51 .

[wolfeye7]

No doubt this has been posted, but I thinks it's worth your attention www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/21/bioware-co-founder-apologizes-to-fans-for-the-mass-effect-3-ending-sort-of/

[Reidbynature]

I'm with Forbes on this, Clarity is hardly promising more options, rather it seems to be more along the line of "we'll explain it to you". I don't care if it's new content along the same lines, what actually happens is awful. Even if you disregard the exploding Relays, everyone stranded etc or the one cutscene/3 colours, the ABC endings ramifications are quite bad in themselves and part of the problem in my opinion.

I find Forbes arguments about taking any kind of criticism seriously fascinating, my problem is the Bioware statement and how it depicts 'destructive criticism' and I'm worried that it is, in a sly way, trying to tar us with the same brush and essentially label us 'trolls'.

Though the apology does mean that something is on the horizon, I guess we just have to hope it actually addresses the majority of player's concerns. Though if it's merely a 'this is what we meant' or puting a simple bandage on the plot holes and largely leaving what happened intact then I will probably say goodbye to Mass Effect 3 and the franchise.

[cardboardarmor]

First off, in regards to the stocks:

EA's stocks are not 'tanking'. Instantaneous change in a market is hardly an indicator of performance; as many day traders who have been shorted or bought in at the wrong time can tell you. However, if you expand your view to look at the time period between when ME3 launched and now, you'll notice that stock prices are trending back down to pre-ME3 launch levels.

Now, is this an indicator of fan impact? Maybe. A lot of things have happened with EA that can affect stock prices (they shut down some MP servers which rattles things a bit, people have come and gone, etc) but the elcor in the room, insofar as we're concerned, boils down to a vocal fan denouncement of a flagship product line item.

Coupled with price drops on new merchandise from retailers, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to say that there are concerns over the immediate and future profitability of ME3. Does this mean that the game will cease being profitable or tank out? No, but its performance may well be anemic - it'll miss projections which will force recalibrations down the line for many retailers as revenue stream projections have to be revisited. Remember your economics classes: the money you -should- have in the future is almost never the money you have now is almost never the money you had.

Stay classy, line holders.

Edit: Added in 'and future' in regards to profitability - must always take into effect change over time with these things.

Modifié par cardboardarmor, 21 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[durasteel]

The entire motivating force behind Commander Shepard in Mass Effect 3 is his fight to save the galaxy, and its people, civilization, and culture. While conflict between synthetic and organic intelligence was one of the elements of the story in Mass Effect 1, that is resolved in the Legion and EDI story lines, and by the time we reach the end of the game it is a non-issue. As I have said before, Shepard wouldn't be fighting any less ferociously if the Reapers were giant psychic hive-mind space cockroaches.

I cannot see any way in which an ending that discards saving the galaxy in favor of returning to the organic v. synthetic issue and compels a choice among unappealing "solutions" will ever be satisfactory. You simply cannot clarify and explain away the fact that by that point in the game, that conflict has already been resolved. You cannot clarify and explain how failing to save the galaxy is an acceptable outcome.

No matter who among the characters lives or dies, if the basic civilization, society, and culture of the galaxy is saved, Shepard wins. If those things are destroyed--which is an inevitable outcome of demolishing the galactic infrastructure--Shepard fails. We've come too far with Shepard to quietly accept his failure.

Modifié par durasteel, 21 mars 2012 - 06:51 .

[VigilancePress]

opheliac_x wrote...

Delurking for a quick minute just to express my appreciation for this post (and others). I have been following these forums like a hawk pretty much the second I finished the game and, in a haze of confusion and a little bit of anger, wondered if any one else felt like I did.
I have sympathy for the ME team. If I put innumerable hours of labor into something like this game, I would certainly be hurt that there is such a reaction to it as this. But the moment you release your work into the wild, you have to accept that they are going to say whatever they want to about it.
But I am so happy that there are so many people coming together in such civil discourse over the matter. Makes me hopeful.

Bottom line: I don't want to be unhappy with the ending. I have been playing the series for ages, and haven't had an issue until now. I trusted BioWare, and I WANT to keep trusting them. But, just as they've given me the hard decisions to make in game, I am making the difficult decision right now on whether I will be able to trust them again. I am wary, to say the least.

tl;dr- Thank you, guys, for being here.

Gonna relurk and read.

Welcome aboard! 

Thank you for reading, and giving our discourse meaning beyond our own personal satisfaction at venting our frustrations. The knowledge that others are hearing and understanding the debate is vital to the ongoing success of our cause.

Cheers!

[Mallissin]

DrkCntry wrote...

Takibanazaki wrote...

Just a quick note, check http://investor.ea.com/stockquote.cfm the end should clarify why Mr Muzyka had to adress the situation.

That actually says nothing....<_<

Stock price being down over 30% since the start of the year doesn't say much?

[JustinS1985]

Takibanazaki wrote...

Just a quick note, check http://investor.ea.com/stockquote.cfm the end should clarify why Mr Muzyka had to adress the situation.

It's been in a slump since at least December, doubt that had much to do with his announcement.

[chkchkchk]

atghunter wrote...

Good Morning, Afternoon (here) and Evening All,
 
I get a few hours sleep, go to work and you have all this fun without me! As always, I’m jealous. Short lunch break, so I’ll type as fast as my hunt-and-peck can, though not much going on up to this point in the day.
 
I enjoyed reading Mr. Muzyka’s blog. It’s pretty much just PR stuff I suspect. This is probably no real change from Friday’s developments where the current environment seems to have shifted to a mode that is not only cognitive of product dissatisfaction on some level with the fans, but one that provides a message that they are considering actions to redress that dissatisfaction. As mentioned before, real progress or deflection? Too soon to tell. Please be patient.
 
But I said this yesterday and I will re-affirm it today, you don’t have to be a PR person to know that this is not the kind of message you want to have to be communicating as a business. Enough people have used (and will hopefully continue using) their voices no matter what side they support to bring this issue up on the radar. I believe the statements we’ve heard that “we’re still assessing data” is truthful. This will take time. As I’ve said all along, this isn’t about Bioware being “evil” but nor is Bioware your best friend coming over to your house for Sunday dinner. They are a business and the bottom line is the bottom line. Do they want good customer relations? Of course. But that is not because they expect an invite to your next party. They want a healthy relationship that makes happy customers and puts money into their accounts.
 
I’d like to thank Ms. Merizan for stopping by last night, just as I appreciated Mr. Woo stopping by yesterday. Yet I extend mycompliments to all of you. You have created a place of where I’d like to think anyone can have a say, even if you don’t agree with them. There are places all over this forum dissecting almost any data available, yet she chose to come to this thread, engage in a lengthy discourse, and take her leave in that same civility.  It speaks well to everyone here. While she may “disagree” with the end goal of Retake it is equally true many of us equally disagree with the choices Bioware/EA made in this product. Those divergent points of view should never preclude the two sides from expressing themselves.
 
No PR perspective, just my opinion, but I’ve always believed, and I’ve shared it with many of you that I think the best outcome now is a compromise. Ultimately that is Bioware’s decision to make, just as it is each individual’s prerogative to respond to that decision as their conscience dictates. I am happy that Ms. Merizan understands that this is about a dissatisfied customer base towards a business offering when she describes the Mass Effect franchise in the same breath as other products such as pizza and television shows. All three involve the complex world of business/customer relationships in which both sides have pieces in the marketplace to move.
 
As to my terminology perhaps being foreign to Bioware’s PR folks, I guess I’ll attribute that to my being old. There was a time when “discarded post-used material receptacles” were referred to as “trash cans.” I am certain that the PR dynamic has changed incredibly from the days of my experience (and I have posted repeatedly how marveled I am about how old and new ideas seem in play here), though some old patterns seem to still remain unchanged in many instances. Many on this forum (including myself), have advocated for people to listen, share opinions and decide for themselves. 
 
Folks here are, however, as you put it “skeptical” though most are constantly extolling everyone to remain involved but to be patient.   
 
And, for the record, the last time I was referred to as “ridiculous” I was on a beach in Spain wearing a parrot outfit. 

Alright, no lunch for me and back to work. Again, my compliments to you all for keeping the discussion civil, quite interesting and lively! /salute I promise I’ll get to my inbox later today. Stay strong, stay passionate, stay civil and use your voice no matter what side you choose! As for me, beside you all, I shall hold the line! 

Good stuff as usual.  Thanks for continuing to comment on things.

Let's all be patient and positive.  Honey, flies, etc.  We need high spirits for line-holding.

Modifié par chkchkchk, 21 mars 2012 - 06:54 .

[Valk72]

MintyCool wrote...

Comguard2 wrote...

So it took us two weeks to make the Co-founder of Bioware tell us that at least "something" will happen?

I would count this as a success.

Now we have to focus on the "something".

Changes are here! April cant come soon enough!

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10396384

You should just stop trolling before being banned you know.

[mghjr6]

OriginalTibs wrote...

What is (are?) 'Marauder Shields'?

Right you are ambling toward the conduit beam to go up to the Citadel, injured, a single Marauder labelled "Marauder Shields" pops out and shoots you. The running joke is that he was trying to save you from seeing the endings.

[HackNFly]

DrkCntry wrote...

Takibanazaki wrote...

DrkCntry wrote...

Takibanazaki wrote...

Just a quick note, check http://investor.ea.com/stockquote.cfm the end should clarify why Mr Muzyka had to adress the situation.

That actually says nothing....<_<

Dropping stocks, wich where in a climb since ME3 launch don't say nothing?

When it reaches near the 52-week low, then it might say something...this is no different than any spike for major release.

Actually EA stock has been going up and down for a while.  Don't expect it to change too much due to this controversy until it becomes a big deal on mainstream news, or until q1 reports come out.  Plus they've made a ton of money with preorders.  The statement was made because there's a huge possibility of lost earnings if they don't handle this situation properly.

[DrkCntry]

JustinS1985 wrote...

Takibanazaki wrote...

Just a quick note, check http://investor.ea.com/stockquote.cfm the end should clarify why Mr Muzyka had to adress the situation.

It's been in a slump since at least December, doubt that had much to do with his announcement.

In the context of what I was replying to?  No.

In the context of speaking of the entirety of the markets?  Perhaps...but that's not exactly something normally discussed on a game forum.