9972 réponses à ce sujet

[JaylaClark]

Doug M wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Thank you Dr. Ray Muzyka for the fair and honest reply. Its good to finally get a concrete reply about what Biowares intentions are towards the ending.

Ask (almost) anyone here, and we will all say that ME3 was a fantastic game until the end. No one doubts that. But its also what makes the ending so unbelievable. So close, yet so far from being perfect.

I look forward to april, until then I will continue to hold the line.

It was good to see him write, "but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility."

But later on he writes, "Building on their research, Exec Producer
Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content
initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity
for those seeking further closure to their journey. ... We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between
the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan
feedback we’ve received."

They're definitely listening to us, and despite Dr. Muzyka's response being vetted and crafted with help from the PR department, the fact that they're actually working on "initiatives" that they think will reconcile all this is a good sign.  The only thing left is whether or not BW makes something that's up to par with the quality that we've come to expect from BW and Mass Effect over the years, ME3's ending not withstanding.

How I took the words in italics (emphasis, of course, mine) is purely him acknowledging us without throwing Casey and Mac under the bus. This is exactly right, listen to your customers, but don't sell out your employees, is what any good business owner/operator does. This is almost an aside. But I do feel like we'll be getting something for our troubles. And contrary to that comic who has 'Bioware' responding to people who've already purchased the game... it won't be 'here's a bird! I've got two left!' Because, well, Amazon's taking returns. Origin, too, even. They're certainly not going to crotch-chop us and move on, right? Not when sales can go down at all.

[Elios]

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Where was this posted originally?

In the we cant get the ending we want thread, they said it was posted briefly on PA, but removed so no way to confirm it.

a post like that and no one got a screen shot i cant beleave that in 50,000 years... see what i did there

[Utopianus]

durasteel wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

I really appreciate how patient and fair she has been especially in regards to not throwing out all of our opinions over the agressive and inappropriate responses of a few. She does a good job under challenging conditions and I personally trust her completely. I've been trying all morning to figure out why so many of us are acting so negative and paranoid when we just got the best news we've had since the beginning of all this. I remain very optimistic and hopeful. I also remain convinced that poor treatment of Bioware staff does not advance our goals.

There is no doubt that Jessica has been great throughout this process. I think any negativity and paranoia you might be perceiving might come from the fact that Dr. Ray's statement may be reasonably perceived as dismissive and condescending, however. I certainly think he was trying for exactly the opposite effect, but his tone implies that he thinks the problem lies with the fans, not with the ending. To summarize, the ending was "art" that we simply don't understand, so we need some explanation to clarify it for us.

I believe that this is a result of trying to stick up for his designers, which I admire, and to stop short of promising a complete re-write of the ending, which I respect as necessary at this point in the process. I think he could have chosen his words better.

I agree about the tone. Tone is every bit as important in a statement as its content, and in a statement that lacks substance, the tone at which the statement is received can make or break it. I won't speculate on the exact intention of his statement other than as a response to the negative customer response, though it is unfortunate that the tone came across as dismissive and condescending. Keep in mind he most probably didn't want to come across as condescending - that would only exacerbate the situation which he is trying to address, so please lay off the flak in that regard. He has stated that something is being done, which although vague, is at least something, which is a small step in a positive direction.

This does not mean our journey is over - we still want 100% confirmation that they are definitely working to address the issues we have raised, and until that time has come it's not over yet. So keep up the spirit, keep calm and civil, and Hold The Line!

[jimihenrix]

Thargorichiban wrote...

Doug M wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Thank you Dr. Ray Muzyka for the fair and honest reply. Its good to finally get a concrete reply about what Biowares intentions are towards the ending.

Ask (almost) anyone here, and we will all say that ME3 was a fantastic game until the end. No one doubts that. But its also what makes the ending so unbelievable. So close, yet so far from being perfect.

I look forward to april, until then I will continue to hold the line.

It was good to see him write, "but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility."

But later on he writes, "Building on their research, Exec Producer
Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content
initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity
for those seeking further closure to their journey. ... We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between
the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan
feedback we’ve received."

They're definitely listening to us, and despite Dr. Muzyka's response being vetted and crafted with help from the PR department, the fact that they're actually working on "initiatives" that they think will reconcile all this is a good sign.  The only thing left is whether or not BW makes something that's up to par with the quality that we've come to expect from BW and Mass Effect over the years, ME3's ending not withstanding.

This isn't anything concrete
yet. I'll believe something is being done when there is proof something
is being done.

Do any of you remember the big Mass Effect: Deception debacle?

Remember how they said future versions would be corrected? Remember what they've done so far?

Absolutely
nothing. No retailer has received any word about future versions. They
claimed to be fixing it to stop the dissenting opinion from making
itself be heard. Now that movement is dead and Bioware has no incentive
to correct their faulty product (Deception).

I wouldn't let them do the same with this movement. Learn from recent history.

Hold the line.

Dang this is so true and right on the point.

[marshkoala]

@Doug M
Loved you post to Jessica and yes I too would love to have a conversation with BW calmly and openly.

[jimihenrix]

Roll Equals Cute wrote...

As one who's been here every single day watching and waiting for news, supporting the line being held...I do agree with some of the above comments, that there seems to be way too much negative backlash in regards to Dr. Muzyka and Jess Merizan.

We should definitely continue to be vocal, but some of us do need to stop tearing apart everything that's said by Bioware/EA and their employees. Every bit of "non-news" they release is NOT an attack on us.

I know there's still a lot of anger out there, but please. We need to be patient and polite - but most importantly, we need to continue being the great community that we've been.

Well said!

[KeldorKatarn]

durasteel wrote...

If you open your birthday present and find a turd in a box, that is a problem. It really doesn't matter if you subsequently receive a lot of clarity and explanation about who gave you the turd, and why. You've still, after all possible exposition, got a turd in a box.

This 

[BigglesFlysAgain]

Elios wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Where was this posted originally?

In the we cant get the ending we want thread, they said it was posted briefly on PA, but removed so no way to confirm it.

a post like that and no one got a screen shot i cant beleave that in 50,000 years... see what i did there

Well I don't vouch for it at all, posted on this forum here http://social.biowar...6/2117#10399582 originaly, probably fake

[Damate]

Re: A possible post from Patrick Weekes:

....wow, if that's legit it's. Well... sad, really. If it's true then I can only imagine how the other writers feel right now. At the same time it would explain a lot...

But, really, with no amount of proof or anything to back it up it's pure speculation (like SO much else). All I do know if that the amount of talented writing we've seen in the series - up until the end - lets me know that Bioware CAN do SO much better. And if it's true the other writers didn't have a chance to really weigh in and lend their voices to the whole of the end then maybe they deserve the chance to make it better just as much as we want what we were promised.

[KeldorKatarn]

marshkoala wrote...

@Doug M
Loved you post to Jessica and yes I too would love to have a conversation with BW calmly and openly.

Who's denying them to start one? I haven't seen even a hint that they'd be ready for that. In fact the latest replay by the big boss speaks a totally different language. Why can't that guy come here and have a discussion here huh? Afraid to face his customers?

I'd be the last person unwilling to have a conversation but so far nobody has shown his face.

Modifié par KeldorKatarn, 21 mars 2012 - 07:52 .

[jarrettwold]

Syrellaris wrote...
I think she has a point.  We do nitpick.  We tear everything into pieces and analyze the heck out of it.  I for one am going to take her advice.  I am not paranoid by nature -- rather I tend towards optimism.  I think a little optimism is not untoward right now, yes?  

And... that's why I'm ditching out on this thread.  It's like being on the bus with Shido in High School of the Dead.   

A lot of flowery dissections using imagined or absurd PR expertise, replete with prompt applause.  Dissecting every single word down to the syllable of what they're "really saying."  The with us or against us premise and reaction in the thread.  It's just tiring.

So I'm getting off the bus.  

[2Shepards]

 I was almost willing seriously to take up the Indoc Theory cause, because it covered up the bad plot and writing for the final parts of ME3.  Now if they are seriously saying that all that crap was intended, oh dear God.  Didn't anyway read the final script or preview the final playthrough before release.  I mean the did push the release from December to March...What were they doing with that extra time.

This is freaking horrible....

-face meet palm-

None of us, or at least I have not encounter one person here or anyone else that did not like ME3, its from the moment of seeing that beam to credit roll that we despise.  And why we despise it because not only does it disrepects the creators, writers, dev, and us he fans, it totally disrepects the ME universe and its characters.

[DrkCntry]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

marshkoala wrote...

@Doug M
Loved you post to Jessica and yes I too would love to have a conversation with BW calmly and openly.

Who's denying them to start one? I haven't seen even a hint that they'd be ready for that. In fact the latest replay by the big boss speaks a totally different language. Why can't that guy come here and have a discussion here huh? Afraid to face his customers?

I'd be the last person unwilling to have a conversation but so far nobody has shown his face.

I would be afraid to face my customers too...sadly the bulk of customers are whiny and feel entitled.

He may be the "big boss man" for Bioware, he still has his own levels of non-disclosure and filtering that needs to be done and that is thanks in great part to people who like to dissect other's statements piece by piece and rearrange them in a manner that is supporting whatever 'flavor of the minute' vitrol.

[danistrad]

"Casey and our lead deciding that they didn't need to be peer-reviewed ."

That explains a lot. But why would they do that?

[Doug M]

marshkoala wrote...

@Doug M
Loved you post to Jessica and yes I too would love to have a conversation with BW calmly and openly.

Thanks!  It frustrates me when people can't come together and have an open and civil conversation about things.  Seems like not enough people can disagree without being disagreeable.  Some of it comes from my beliefs, and my regard for the value of communion, but most of it comes from common sense.  When I come close to losing my cool, I just want to shake whoever is being unreasonable and say, "Will you... just... RELAX?!  Stop being so pigheaded!" (Shouting at someone to relax, ha!  Irony)

I'd love to see at PAX East a conversation between BioWare and someone representing the fans about the endings.  Oooh, I can even make a list of questions!  That sounds like fun.  BRB!

[cyrrant]

Just poking my head in to say that I managed to get a spot at work with 3G so I kept up with most of what's going on.

I'm not sure that telling everyone here to "stop being paranoid" is going to work, given that many people are in some stage of dealing with post-ME3 grief. Having lost trust in a company that they once admired, it might be a natural reaction to take everything that comes from their employees with a dose of suspicion. That being said, it's not appropriate to discount everything that comes out of Bioware out of hand just because it's coming from them. Take the time to think, I know it's tempting to slam something on to the boards because of how quickly the threads move, but keeping a level head is how we got this far.

As far as Dr. Muzyka's post, I'm not surprised by the visceral reaction that some people had to it. There is certainly some PR double-speak in there that might get people howling. I think that we need to look at the post in the context of where we came from, and where we're going. This isn't an absolute victory by any means, but our cause here has generated enough buzz that a respected figure in the company decided to step forward. Does this mean there's pressure from above? Was he trying to protect his employees (which he has every right, and should do)? We don't know. But we do know that he addressed the issue, albeit indirectly and with a lot of added fluff on the side.

I personally view this as a small win for us, and if you don't, that's fine too. In the end this whole thing has always been about the diversity we have among us, and how much that can work to our advantage. They say now that they're going to provide "clarity". But if that doesn't quiet us down, they will have to do more. Personally, I have now passed all the stages of ME3 grief and have now gone into "grim determination". I won't be going anywhere until I see the endings fixed.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[CrankBoy]

l00kash wrote...

Untill recently (finishing ME3) I never posted on this forum. I was 'silent majority'. Seeing how BW treated us, gamers, just made me furious. So I'm with you on this 100%. My wallet is sealed untill all this gets resolved.
.....
Keep civil, keep holding the line!

I have the same feelings.
.... but for me ME3  was an RPG like TPS no more no less.
Certainly in RPG mode.

I'm very disappointed.

(I played with ME1 and ME2 too.)

A lot of hungarian ME fans will hold the line.


Sorry for my english.

[Darkeus]

http://www.forbes.co...ending-sort-of/

This is an outside perspective of the statement Dr. Muzyka made. And I agree 100%. People can say we analyze too much and all of that but maybe you should read this article and then look at it from the article writers perspective.

We are still called a minority. It still points to the reviews. It says nothing except that the ending will be, "clarified", whatever that means. It is nice, but it is only something little....

[jspiess]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

durasteel wrote...

If you open your birthday present and find a turd in a box, that is a problem. It really doesn't matter if you subsequently receive a lot of clarity and explanation about who gave you the turd, and why. You've still, after all possible exposition, got a turd in a box.

This 

and we were given hints that it would be cool and satisfying

[akawa106]

cardboardarmor wrote...

I suppose that with the recent press release, is it fair to say that Dr. Muzyka is assuming direct control? That he will direct this personally?

Is direct intervention necessary? Perhaps he saw that this silence hurts us. Sure he realizes that if he must tear this bad will apart, he will. He has invited us to embrace perfection. This is what we face. This is true power.

haha love it!

[k8ee]

durasteel wrote...

If you open your birthday present and find a turd in a box, that is a problem. It really doesn't matter if you subsequently receive a lot of clarity and explanation about who gave you the turd, and why. You've still, after all possible exposition, got a turd in a box.

After the end of Mass Effect 3 is changed to something that makes sense and relates coherently to the rest of the trilogy's story, I'll be happy to pay attention to the clarifying explanation of how a talented team of game designers dropped a turd into the box, but until then the main focus should be the fact that we don't want the turd.

Also, Casey needs to be aware that if the "game content initiatives" amount to little more than a shiny coat of polish for the turd, they will not be well received. Again, the team needs to devote themselves to turd removal, before any other efforts have a chance of meeting a warm reception.

I hate to say it, but your excessive use of the word turd had me laughing and feeling better after reading that onimous letter to the fans from Dr Mass Effect.

[ZiegenkonigIII]

 Hey, another lurker joining the ranks.  I am also one of the people who haven't finished the game yet solely because I don't want to see the ending cutscene in-game (which I have seen on youtube).  Also, incredibly happy to be here!  I'm planning at stopping at marauder shields and pretending he stopped me, fulfilling his primary purpose in life.  But anyway, to the main point.

I think that the Bioware team is slowly coming out of the stage of denial.  I get that when you spend as much time and energy working on a product as they have, it can be hard to accept any constructive criticism.  However, it's getting pretty hard to look past the "Not everyone has finished the game yet" line.  As more and more people finish it, obviously more and more are expressing their distaste over it.  It's eventually going to get to the point where it will be next to impossible to look past the fans who have a distaste for the ending, as more and more start holding the line.

Also, Jessica, if your reading this:  You have to understand, we haven't gotten any feedback from basically anyone except you and maybe two others in the past week.  You being the most vocal and the most cooperative, obviously your going to recieve the brunt of most people's "bloodrage", which is where the dissection of posts is coming in.  As wrong as this sounds, you being the most helpful, since you've studied anthropology I think you can agree that's what is happening.  I don't know if this has been mentioned before, I just wanted to state it.

I love the games, don't get me wrong.  I'm pretty sure (almost) everyone who dislikes the ending does.  I'll put it like alot of other people have:  It's like being led on by a girl/boy, for about 5 years.  Then, at the climax of the relationship, you find out that none of it really mattered, with no explanation/closure to boot.  Endings aside, that's how I and I am pretty sure most of us feel.

Gladly Holding The Line

[Spirea]

Is it worth downloading the Final Hours? (whether something interesting is said there)

[Ruari]

2Shepards wrote...

 I was almost willing seriously to take up the Indoc Theory cause, because it covered up the bad plot and writing for the final parts of ME3.  Now if they are seriously saying that all that crap was intended, oh dear God.  Didn't anyway read the final script or preview the final playthrough before release.  I mean the did push the release from December to March...What were they doing with that extra time.

This is freaking horrible....

-face meet palm-

None of us, or at least I have not encounter one person here or anyone else that did not like ME3, its from the moment of seeing that beam to credit roll that we despise.  And why we despise it because not only does it disrepects the creators, writers, dev, and us he fans, it totally disrepects the ME universe and its characters.

Since it first was thought up, I saw the indoc. theory as just a way to try to not have to cry ourselves to sleep at night at how badly Bioware failed at the ending. If anything it's just a back door excuse we're saying that Bioware can take. I never thought they would say "oh yeah, that's what we wanted to do." I just was hoping for something like "you're right, that's a great idea, we'll write that in somehow."

[Luiginius]

Dear god, finally someone inside Bioware who speaks like a human being. I so called this, project lead fell in love with his own idea and kicked the rest of staff off the buss.