9972 réponses à ce sujet

[k8ee]

danistrad wrote...

"Casey and our lead deciding that they didn't need to be peer-reviewed ."

That explains a lot. But why would they do that?

What?? REALLY??? Where did this come from??

[thatfilmgirl]

jarrettwold wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...
I think she has a point.  We do nitpick.  We tear everything into pieces and analyze the heck out of it.  I for one am going to take her advice.  I am not paranoid by nature -- rather I tend towards optimism.  I think a little optimism is not untoward right now, yes?  

And... that's why I'm ditching out on this thread.  It's like being on the bus with Shido in High School of the Dead.   

A lot of flowery dissections using imagined or absurd PR expertise, replete with prompt applause.  Dissecting every single word down to the syllable of what they're "really saying."  The with us or against us premise and reaction in the thread.  It's just tiring.

So I'm getting off the bus.  

This. I'm all for a new/more sensical ending but I think this is getting seriously out of hand. The longer this goes on, the more hostile it's getting, even with the respecting each other.

[MisterMonkeyBanana]

Both "sides" need to remain calm and rational, fans haven't been the only ones who've behaved poorly towards the other and acted in a rude manner. If this going to work, both sides need to stop provoking the other, because fans aren't the only one who have been rude and insulting, many of the comments given to the community are equally vitriolic as some of the things angry fans have said.

That said neither the fans nor Bioware have been as hateful or rude as some of the mainstream gaming media, some of the articles about the controversy have been downright disgusting and unprofessional.

So yeah, everyone keep it respectful and positive, Bioware included.

[The Almighty Ali]

Luiginius wrote...

Dear god, finally someone inside Bioware who speaks like a human being. I so called this, project lead fell in love with his own idea and kicked the rest of staff off the buss.

Unfortunatly we don't know if it's genuine or not, if it is then it'd explain quite a bit and is a real shame.
If it isn't then someones gone quite a lenght to try to stirr up ruckus.

Sadly we can only speculate.

[wepeel_]

Elios wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Where was this posted originally?

In the we cant get the ending we want thread, they said it was posted briefly on PA, but removed so no way to confirm it.

a post like that and no one got a screen shot i cant beleave that in 50,000 years... see what i did there

Agreed. Patrick Weekes hanging both Casey Hudson and Mac Walters out to dry? I'd need some evidence to believe that.

[Doug M]

DrkCntry wrote...

KeldorKatarn wrote...

marshkoala wrote...

@Doug M
Loved you post to Jessica and yes I too would love to have a conversation with BW calmly and openly.

Who's denying them to start one? I haven't seen even a hint that they'd be ready for that. In fact the latest replay by the big boss speaks a totally different language. Why can't that guy come here and have a discussion here huh? Afraid to face his customers?

I'd be the last person unwilling to have a conversation but so far nobody has shown his face.

I would be afraid to face my customers too...sadly the bulk of customers are whiny and feel entitled.

He may be the "big boss man" for Bioware, he still has his own levels of non-disclosure and filtering that needs to be done and that is thanks in great part to people who like to dissect other's statements piece by piece and rearrange them in a manner that is supporting whatever 'flavor of the minute' vitrol.

There are a lot of reasons why Casey Hudson or Dr. Muzyka don't come on these forums personally to discuss the ending, and much of it has to do with appearances and investors.  If they appear to cave in to us too easily, then it sets the precedent for fans directly dictating what game companies do, which is extremely risky business, and investors do not want to invest money into something that's extremely risky.  Also, if Hudson and Muzyka came on here informally, without letting the entire forum community know, there'd be an uproar over how they did it "in the dead of night, secretly, when the fewest people were on, so they'd get the least amount of resistance, and no one else had a chance to prepare."

Something like an announced, scheduled Ask Me Anything Session that lasts for an entire day would be wonderful.  That way everyone who wanted to talk to BW could have time to prepare questions and really sort out their thoughts and what they want to say.

Oh, and another reason Hudson and Muzyka tend to not come here directly is because of the handful of rabid fans who fly off the handle at a whim.  It's tough to have a calm conversation with most of us when you're dealing with that.  Look at it from their perspective - they're getting tens of thousands of passionate responses every day, and responding to that takes a lot out of a person.  It's exhausting.  Then when you get the handful of rabid fans who go ballistic over misinterpretations... I'm amazed that we're getting responses at all from people like Jessica.

So yeah, to those of us wondering why BW hasn't come talk to us face to face yet, there's part of the answer.  Hudson and Muzyka may be in the "corporate world", but they're still human.

[Yusta1]

Lil One wrote...

LdyBelial wrote...

<trim>

I honestly don't think BioWare DID THIS TO US ON PURPOSE.  No matter how hurt and angry we get this wasn't personal... they weren't attacking us.  In fact, I think they thought we'd would all be like "WOW, WHAT A SURPRISING TWIST!"  And instead they got hit in the gut with "WT_???? You gotta be kidding me?!" instead.  

I feel bad for them.  That doesn't change that I want multiple endings that reflect my choices though... 

Lan

Hear, hear.  That is what I am here for too.

Me too, anyother things don't match enough consensus on my runtime.

[BigglesFlysAgain]

wepeel_ wrote...

Elios wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Where was this posted originally?

In the we cant get the ending we want thread, they said it was posted briefly on PA, but removed so no way to confirm it.

a post like that and no one got a screen shot i cant beleave that in 50,000 years... see what i did there

Agreed. Patrick Weekes hanging both Casey Hudson and Mac Walters out to dry? I'd need some evidence to believe that.

Well somone seems to have saved it here http://pastebin.com/i2cNVDp4 but I admit it seems fishy. It seems to have been made on the 9th though? which would predate most peoples ending anger.

[BostonVamp]

I'm going to try and do a little catch-up reading here, but heard about some of the news today. I am cautious with any optimism. I do hope they are sincere in their outreach. My trust in BW and EA has been severely tested and I am waiting to see if they will actually, this time, do what they are saying they will do. Bioware had my trust; they lost it; now they have to earn my trust - they are not entitled to it.

[cardboardarmor]

akawa106 wrote...

cardboardarmor wrote...

I suppose that with the recent press release, is it fair to say that Dr. Muzyka is assuming direct control? That he will direct this personally?

Is direct intervention necessary? Perhaps he saw that this silence hurts us. Sure he realizes that if he must tear this bad will apart, he will. He has invited us to embrace perfection. This is what we face. This is true power.

haha love it!

I believed it was a fair parallel.  After all, the forces of the Mass Effect universe bend to him.  His praise for his team shows that they fight as one though some of his later statements show they would like to preserve Commander Shepard (if possible).

Coming out to speak to us shows a willingness to dispell the notion that there is detatchment as some would say that we do not yet comprehend our place in things.  Neither have we been unjustly accused of being short-sighted.

Regardless, the content creation will continue.  This changes nothing in regards to their plans and, happily, runs counter to the belief that hope is irrelevant.

(Mining out Harbinger lines for these things is getting a little harder - can't use the more denegrating lines or the ones that refer to genetics, unfortunately  )

[Hylndur]

a post from Jarrett Lee in an ending DLC is true thread

"Hey guys, one thing I want to stress is to not make any assumptions until we are able to give you more information. Right now, anything about free vs paid is speculation only. I think most of you get that, but just want to stress it. "


may
be me just over thinking or him forgetting to type things. But it just
puts down the free vs paid argument, and not the ending DLC argument.

again, i could just be looking TOO MUCH in to it though *shrug*

[wepeel_]

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

wepeel_ wrote...

Elios wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Where was this posted originally?

In the we cant get the ending we want thread, they said it was posted briefly on PA, but removed so no way to confirm it.

a post like that and no one got a screen shot i cant beleave that in 50,000 years... see what i did there

Agreed. Patrick Weekes hanging both Casey Hudson and Mac Walters out to dry? I'd need some evidence to believe that.

Well somone seems to have saved it here http://pastebin.com/i2cNVDp4 but I admit it seems fishy. It seems to have been made on the 9th though? which would predate most peoples ending anger.

Hm, it seems to be posted on several places on the web now:

wwe.thq.com/go/thread/view/136799/29011581/why-mass-effect-3s-ending-failed
http://www.bluesnews...9&id=0&start=40

Interesting, but doesn't prove anything.

Modifié par wepeel_, 21 mars 2012 - 08:19 .

[Lanay]

cyrrant wrote...

Just poking my head in to say that I managed to get a spot at work with 3G so I kept up with most of what's going on.

I'm not sure that telling everyone here to "stop being paranoid" is going to work, given that many people are in some stage of dealing with post-ME3 grief. Having lost trust in a company that they once admired, it might be a natural reaction to take everything that comes from their employees with a dose of suspicion. That being said, it's not appropriate to discount everything that comes out of Bioware out of hand just because it's coming from them. Take the time to think, I know it's tempting to slam something on to the boards because of how quickly the threads move, but keeping a level head is how we got this far.

As far as Dr. Muzyka's post, I'm not surprised by the visceral reaction that some people had to it. There is certainly some PR double-speak in there that might get people howling. I think that we need to look at the post in the context of where we came from, and where we're going. This isn't an absolute victory by any means, but our cause here has generated enough buzz that a respected figure in the company decided to step forward. Does this mean there's pressure from above? Was he trying to protect his employees (which he has every right, and should do)? We don't know. But we do know that he addressed the issue, albeit indirectly and with a lot of added fluff on the side.

I personally view this as a small win for us, and if you don't, that's fine too. In the end this whole thing has always been about the diversity we have among us, and how much that can work to our advantage. They say now that they're going to provide "clarity". But if that doesn't quiet us down, they will have to do more. Personally, I have now passed all the stages of ME3 grief and have now gone into "grim determination". I won't be going anywhere until I see the endings fixed.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

Well said!  I agree 100%.

[marshkoala]

@durasteel
Thanks for the laugh!

I really enjoyed the Forbes writer perspective and now more understand I wasn't the only one who read the but.... in the statement.
I appreciated he also caught the double-speak in his paragraph on fans.

Note to self:(Think like atghunter think) Remain calm and civil

Everyone check out the "Open Letter to Mr. Ruzyka" good rational post

[Promchek]

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Anyone seen this apparently from Patrick Weekes. apparently posted somwhere and then removed soon after though, so no way of confirming it.


"I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued
successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to
our squad, having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn't
automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali's
goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote
(Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc). 
No other writer did, either, except
for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself,
sitting in a room and going through draft after draft. 
And honestly, it kind of shows. 
Every
other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing
team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and
pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our
lead deciding that they didn't need to be peer-reviewe.d 
And again, it shows. 
If you'd asked me the themes of Mass Effect 3, I'd break them down as: Galactic Alliances Friends Organics versus Synthetics 
In
my personal opinion, the first two got a perfunctory nod. We did get a
goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the
gameplay -- a deliberate "nothing happens here" area with one turret
thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to
obfuscate the "nothing happens here"-ness. The best missions in our game
are the ones in which the gameplay and the narrative reinforce each
other. The end of the Genophage campaign exemplifies that for me --
every line of dialog is showing you both sides of the krogan, be they
horrible brutes or proud warriors; the art shows both their bombed-out
wasteland and the beautiful world they once had and could have again;
the combat shows the terror of the Reapers as well as a blatant reminder
of the rachni, which threatened the galaxy and had to be stopped by the
krogan last time. Every line of code in that mission is on target with
the overall message. 
The endgame doesn't have that. I wanted to see
banshees attacking you, and then have asari gunships zoom in and blow
them away. I wanted to see a wave of rachni ravagers come around a
corner only to be met by a wall of krogan roaring a battle cry. Here's
the horror the Reapers inflicted upon each race, and here's the army
that you, Commander Shepard, made out of every race in the galaxy to
fight them. 
I personally thought that the Illusive Man conversation
was about twice as long as it needed to be -- something that I've been
told in my peer reviews of my missions and made edits on, but again,
this is a conversation no writer but the lead ever saw until it was
already recorded. I did love Anderson's goodbye. 
For me, Anderson's
goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just... You have
to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the
problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people
are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely
unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love
it. 
And then, just to be a dick... what was SUPPOSED to happen was
that, say you picked "Destroy the Reapers". When you did that, the
system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you'd show a
cutscene of Earth that was either: 
a) Very high score: Earth
obviously damaged, but woo victory  Medium score: Earth takes a bunch
of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an
already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh,
THAT. c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely
wiped out 
I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren't in
there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for
budget reasons at the last minute. I don't know. But holy crap, yeah, I
can see how incredibly disappointing it'd be to hear of all the
different ending possibilities and have it break down to "which color is
stuff glowing?" Or maybe they ARE in, but they're too subtle to really
see obvious differences, and again, that's... yeah. 
Okay, that's a lot to have written for something that's gonna go away in an hour. 
I
still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for
the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn't
tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn't have
enough cutscene differentiation on it. 
And to be clear, I don't even
really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was
honestly okay with Shepard sacrificing himself. I just expected it to be
for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to
the core themes -- all three of them."

don't know how much of this is true, but it was exactly my notion. The game ends with the last dialog between
Anderson and Shepard (the long version, not the one i've got) After it they really should have fired up the crucible and give us outcome according to ALL possible choices we've made in all previous games.

And although it would still have same major  problem for me: Same CAUSE different RESULTS. BUt it could be explained simple with having different people on project, different amount of defense forces (causing more or less damage to crucible). And then give us a proper epiloge, what's all what was needed. In my humble opinion ofc.

P.S. even the question if Shepard survives or not could be handled in regards of his /her choices befor: More survived Friends, higher chance. Because they could get to him/her in time. Remember, the citatele arms have been opened, so no need to run to the beam again.

Modifié par Promchek, 21 mars 2012 - 08:28 .

[Darkeus]

http://my.spill.com/...issues-spoliers

This is also an interesting blog as well.

[marshkoala]

@Doug M
Valid point. It is hard to make yourself heard when people are extremely mad and in vent mode.

[Lawliet89]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

PS I'm glad to hear so many people who are moving from the 90 to the 9. Will check BSN registrations and our Facebook PTAT

Nite 4 realzzz

Thanks for taking the effort to respond. I feel much much better reading your post. 

[Michotic]

The Facebook Group broke 50,000 total members.

Our choices should matter. Hold the line.

[MeldarthX]

Craven1138 wrote...

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

Basically it seems he told us to go **** ourselves, because they'll only explain endings for us idiots, who didn't get how fantastic it is.

For me if this is supposed to be damage control, then I dare to say it's counter-effective.
This is the worst, the most insulting BioWare move since whole controversy started.

It doesn't and even if it does - not in my opinion - we don't say it - reason we've hit them so fast; so hard - and we've gotten this so quickly......

We've been Respectful, Civil - Companies that get people screaming; shouting; swearing; spitting on; will ignore those people.

If you have same body of people; being civil and respectful - that's when company knows they have something very dangerous on their hands.   They are still very passionate - but they also know they have to temper it.

If you're getting upset - take a break - give a little to the Charity - it does wonders in releasing that anger..  Forge those thoughts and passion into possitive feedback about the game - They want to know why the ending doesn't work; do it -

I mean honestly how many have actually gone in to the suggetion forum for new ending and posted?  This honest question; I have......now its our chance to keep the pressure on - but do it respectfully and civil.  Treat them like you would be wanted to be treated; as this is business its not personal.

BW - is gathering data; they want our feed back - we give it - we continue to give it - letters; tweets - we keep contacting news - if there is a negative article; we post and present our side; respectfully.  We continue to donate - To get a letter from CEO already - stating we hear you - we will say something in April.  Keep constructive critisim coming in.  I say - I will......as the rest of will.

Have we won?  Not yet - we still could lose out in the end but only if we loose our cool.

HOLD THE LINE

[Lugaidster]

thatfilmgirl wrote...

jarrettwold wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...
I think she has a point.  We do nitpick.  We tear everything into pieces and analyze the heck out of it.  I for one am going to take her advice.  I am not paranoid by nature -- rather I tend towards optimism.  I think a little optimism is not untoward right now, yes?  

And... that's why I'm ditching out on this thread.  It's like being on the bus with Shido in High School of the Dead.   

A lot of flowery dissections using imagined or absurd PR expertise, replete with prompt applause.  Dissecting every single word down to the syllable of what they're "really saying."  The with us or against us premise and reaction in the thread.  It's just tiring.

So I'm getting off the bus.  

This. I'm all for a new/more sensical ending but I think this is getting seriously out of hand. The longer this goes on, the more hostile it's getting, even with the respecting each other.

I'm taking the same stance. This is getting outta hand.

[RedTail F22]

The fact that Ray states that most of their fans think the whole game is exceptional worries me. I have not seen a single poll/forum/whatever where those who liked the ending outnumber those who did not. Its not even close. Sooner or later they need to realise just how bad they messed up. The fact that they got so many great reviews made this fight an uphill battle for us but its something I see we're fully prepared for. I'd like to say that I believe they're doing what is right but its just not looking like their even willing to fully recognize us yet... But we're not done yet, are we? No.

Hold the Line!!

[Michotic]

RedTail F22 wrote...

The fact that Ray states that most of their fans think the whole game is exceptional worries me. I have not seen a single poll/forum/whatever where those who liked the ending outnumber those who did not. Its not even close. Sooner or later they need to realise just how bad they messed up. The fact that they got so many great reviews made this fight an uphill battle for us but its something I see we're fully prepared for. I'd like to say that I believe they're doing what is right but its just not looking like their even willing to fully recognize us yet... But we're not done yet, are we? No.

Hold the Line!!

It's damage control. He has to present a positive front to keep shareholders happy. The more pressure we apply, the harder it will be. We just have to keep on keepin' on.

Our choices should matter. Hold the line.

[Syrellaris]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

marshkoala wrote...

@Doug M
Loved you post to Jessica and yes I too would love to have a conversation with BW calmly and openly.

Who's denying them to start one? I haven't seen even a hint that they'd be ready for that. In fact the latest replay by the big boss speaks a totally different language. Why can't that guy come here and have a discussion here huh? Afraid to face his customers?

I'd be the last person unwilling to have a conversation but so far nobody has shown his face.

Because the majority of there customers can't behave. It has been shown and proven before that when they talk to you, the bulk will attack them. He said it in his posts before and so did plenty of other developers of various companies. If you are calm and have honest criticism then they can have discussions on various topics with people, but destructive comments, hatred, name calling and personal attacks on employees are not helpful and I do not blame anyone for cutting of talks with people.

In my Job line cutting people off and saying I will not pursue a discussion with them because they are foaming frmo the mouth with anger, is one of the best and easiest to use lines. If you calmed down, then we have a opening for a discussion.