9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Numdenu]

Remember, Keep Calm and Stay Civil. Hold the Line.

"Hold the Line" does not mean "go blood raging and charge the trenches". Even if you think your foe's vulnerable, that's not how you win. That's how you EXPOSE YOURSELF, GET SHOT AND DIE HORRIBLY. You want the OTHER side to either charge YOU, or surrender. Because the trench is the safest, most tactically beneficial spot.

So stay civil, and entertain those water-testing offers of tentative surrender, without committing. Don't go totally berserk on everything.

Marauder Shields didn't bumrush you, did he. He was at least trying to play it smart.

[Syrellaris]

RedTail F22 wrote...

The fact that Ray states that most of their fans think the whole game is exceptional worries me. I have not seen a single poll/forum/whatever where those who liked the ending outnumber those who did not. Its not even close. Sooner or later they need to realise just how bad they messed up. The fact that they got so many great reviews made this fight an uphill battle for us but its something I see we're fully prepared for. I'd like to say that I believe they're doing what is right but its just not looking like their even willing to fully recognize us yet... But we're not done yet, are we? No.

Hold the Line!!

I think he means that pretty much the entire game is awsome, except for the ending as that is what most people have criticism on. Regardless of the last 5 minutes the rest of the game has been an exceptional experience.

[LeoSpike]

cardboardarmor wrote...

I suppose that with the recent press release, is it fair to say that Dr. Muzyka is assuming direct control? That he will direct this personally?

Is direct intervention necessary? Perhaps he saw that this silence hurts us. Sure he realizes that if he must tear this bad will apart, he will. He has invited us to embrace perfection. This is what we face. This is true power.

In my opinion, no. Lines of authority in companies are usually clearly defined. He'll have had several talks with Casey Hudson about the situation, and delegate the solution finding (and required budget or each option) to the series lead, which is...Casey Hudson. Maybe not so good news.

But Casey Hudson is not so full of hubris that he'll design the solution(s) in a vacuum. and mark my words, comments made in this thread will be brought to him (summarized of course) and he'll consider them. They also have other things to try and fix in their "game content initiatives", issues like face import, etc. The solutions that are viable and will satisfy the greatest number of people will be implemented. As for the endings, I doubt we'll see a total re-write, unless their message in April is:  "We've decided there are valid concerns over a number of features and we will take the time to address these with affected players providing QA along the way."  If that is the statement we hear it'll be at least 3 months before the solutions are ready for download and general release. At least 3 months. I'm betting that a proper solution to the most major issues will take them 6 months minimum before it's in our hands.

Modifié par LeoSpike, 21 mars 2012 - 08:37 .

[Goroxx]

jojimbo wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Anyone seen this apparently from Patrick Weekes. apparently posted somwhere and then removed soon after though, so no way of confirming it.


"I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued
successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to
our squad, having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn't
automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali's
goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote
(Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc). 
No other writer did, either, except
for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself,
sitting in a room and going through draft after draft. 
And honestly, it kind of shows. 
Every
other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing
team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and
pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our
lead deciding that they didn't need to be peer-reviewe.d 
And again, it shows. 
If you'd asked me the themes of Mass Effect 3, I'd break them down as: Galactic Alliances Friends Organics versus Synthetics 
In
my personal opinion, the first two got a perfunctory nod. We did get a
goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the
gameplay -- a deliberate "nothing happens here" area with one turret
thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to
obfuscate the "nothing happens here"-ness. The best missions in our game
are the ones in which the gameplay and the narrative reinforce each
other. The end of the Genophage campaign exemplifies that for me --
every line of dialog is showing you both sides of the krogan, be they
horrible brutes or proud warriors; the art shows both their bombed-out
wasteland and the beautiful world they once had and could have again;
the combat shows the terror of the Reapers as well as a blatant reminder
of the rachni, which threatened the galaxy and had to be stopped by the
krogan last time. Every line of code in that mission is on target with
the overall message. 
The endgame doesn't have that. I wanted to see
banshees attacking you, and then have asari gunships zoom in and blow
them away. I wanted to see a wave of rachni ravagers come around a
corner only to be met by a wall of krogan roaring a battle cry. Here's
the horror the Reapers inflicted upon each race, and here's the army
that you, Commander Shepard, made out of every race in the galaxy to
fight them. 
I personally thought that the Illusive Man conversation
was about twice as long as it needed to be -- something that I've been
told in my peer reviews of my missions and made edits on, but again,
this is a conversation no writer but the lead ever saw until it was
already recorded. I did love Anderson's goodbye. 
For me, Anderson's
goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just... You have
to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the
problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people
are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely
unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love
it. 
And then, just to be a dick... what was SUPPOSED to happen was
that, say you picked "Destroy the Reapers". When you did that, the
system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you'd show a
cutscene of Earth that was either: 
a) Very high score: Earth
obviously damaged, but woo victory  Medium score: Earth takes a bunch
of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an
already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh,
THAT. c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely
wiped out 
I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren't in
there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for
budget reasons at the last minute. I don't know. But holy crap, yeah, I
can see how incredibly disappointing it'd be to hear of all the
different ending possibilities and have it break down to "which color is
stuff glowing?" Or maybe they ARE in, but they're too subtle to really
see obvious differences, and again, that's... yeah. 
Okay, that's a lot to have written for something that's gonna go away in an hour. 
I
still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for
the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn't
tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn't have
enough cutscene differentiation on it. 
And to be clear, I don't even
really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was
honestly okay with Shepard sacrificing himself. I just expected it to be
for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to
the core themes -- all three of them."

thats an interesting awesome read, thanks

CONFIRMED FAKE, see 

http://social.biowar.../index/10399933 

There's enough fuel on the fire already, we don't need fake crap adding to it all.

[marshkoala]

By the way that post that's flying around that Mr. Weeks wrote Chris has updated to let you know it is fake.

Yes we can be calm and civil thanks MeldarthX

[ReavousX]

I've only begun to skim what I missed while sleeping, but I didn't have to dig far to run into that bombshell of Ray's.

If anything, it inspires hope to keep holding the line and see this through. It also falls in line with the idea that something in early April is going to be announced. I don't know if Ray truly believes we're just the passionate, vocal minority, but look at the big picture and see that HE was the one who had to come forward and make a statement. That seems like an acknowledgement of our size and effectiveness.

I was here when Jessica showed up in the thread, and I thought I'd share some insight into what was actually going on, and what prompted her post.

I was around for the whole thing, and it was very organic, she didn't just randomly pop in. A few of us from the thread saw that she mentioned something interesting on Twitter, and we began to discuss it. Myself and some others actually talked to her on Twitter, and got some pretty open minded chatter from her, nothing too special, but interesting at least.

The big thing was her 90-9-1 point, which led to us pondering if those percentages would be skewed by an influx of members due to a "traumatic" experience such as the ME3 endings. She thought that was an interesting idea. I mentioned to her we were talking about it, and she asked for the thread. She playfully said "Oh that thread. " or something, and about an hour later, there was her post. It was 4/5 in the morning, and I definitely think it's legit.

She did very little to actually put spin on the situation, she was mostly addressing topics previously mentioned, and tried to tell people in so many words that it'll take time to get an answer, which most of us already acknowledge.

We're making progress guys. Keep calm and stay civil.

[Darkeus]

marshkoala wrote...

By the way that post that's flying around that Mr. Weeks wrote Chris has updated to let you know it is fake.

Yes we can be calm and civil thanks MeldarthX

So confirmed by an EA/Bioware employee that it is fake.

I think I will remain just a bit doubtful....  I am not saying it is true or not but I think I need a less biased soruce telling me it is fake.

[marshkoala]

@LeoSpike
6 months isn't too bad, could be 10 years(like for Dr.W)

[rfrombrazil]

Syrellaris wrote...

KeldorKatarn wrote...

marshkoala wrote...

@Doug M
Loved you post to Jessica and yes I too would love to have a conversation with BW calmly and openly.

Who's denying them to start one? I haven't seen even a hint that they'd be ready for that. In fact the latest replay by the big boss speaks a totally different language. Why can't that guy come here and have a discussion here huh? Afraid to face his customers?

I'd be the last person unwilling to have a conversation but so far nobody has shown his face.

Because the majority of there customers can't behave. It has been shown and proven before that when they talk to you, the bulk will attack them. He said it in his posts before and so did plenty of other developers of various companies. If you are calm and have honest criticism then they can have discussions on various topics with people, but destructive comments, hatred, name calling and personal attacks on employees are not helpful and I do not blame anyone for cutting of talks with people.

In my Job line cutting people off and saying I will not pursue a discussion with them because they are foaming frmo the mouth with anger, is one of the best and easiest to use lines. If you calmed down, then we have a opening for a discussion.

We have been doing more than behaving so far. Far more than what they expect.

Mostly, the ones getting out of hand are the ones defeding Bioware, if you'll take a look at the posts. Its really disturbing that their angry commenters are their defenders, and their detractors are the one with civil attitudes.

Seriously. The ones calling each other children, entitled, are the ones defending Bioware. I'm not making this up. Just look at the trend, even in the news. The outlets defaming us called us entitled children, all of them. The ones criticising Bioware's actions and the endings themselves kept it all civil. 

But I'm holding the line so far. Ray contradicts himself in the post, acnkowledging there is a problem and openly refusing to adress it, since there is not going to be new endings, just explanations on the current ones. And I can already hear Buzz Aldrin's words: "Well child, you see, there was a wizard, and some called him Tim, that blanketed all systems with anti-supernova shields. Also, he gave the tech to allow system-to-system travel. But of course, you're the demonspawn of a robot and a crippled helmsman, how could you fathom those things?"

[FS3D]

I don't know if anyone is interested in seeing my response to Ray's letter. I thought I'd post a link here.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10395811/1

[FS3D]

rfrombrazil wrote...

We have been doing more than behaving so far. Far more than what they expect.

Mostly, the ones getting out of hand are the ones defeding Bioware, if you'll take a look at the posts. Its really disturbing that their angry commenters are their defenders, and their detractors are the one with civil attitudes.

Seriously. The ones calling each other children, entitled, are the ones defending Bioware. I'm not making this up. Just look at the trend, even in the news. The outlets defaming us called us entitled children, all of them. The ones criticising Bioware's actions and the endings themselves kept it all civil.

This. I've noticed that trend too. It looks like the PR Damage Control is starting to get ugly with accusations against the wrong people by those within the company.

I guess it's time to batten down the hatches and dig in for the coming onslaught.

[wepeel_]

Darkeus wrote...

marshkoala wrote...

By the way that post that's flying around that Mr. Weeks wrote Chris has updated to let you know it is fake.

Yes we can be calm and civil thanks MeldarthX

So confirmed by an EA/Bioware employee that it is fake.

I think I will remain just a bit doubtful....  I am not saying it is true or not but I think I need a less biased soruce telling me it is fake.

Well, there was never any evidence of it being true in the first place, just anonymous internet claims.

[taliota]

Modifié par taliota, 21 mars 2012 - 08:48 .

[taliota]

Numdenu wrote...
"Hold the Line" does not mean "go blood raging and charge the trenches". Even if you think your foe's vulnerable, that's not how you win. That's how you EXPOSE YOURSELF, GET SHOT AND DIE HORRIBLY. You want the OTHER side to either charge YOU, or surrender. Because the trench is the safest, most tactically beneficial spot.

Unless you're a vanguard. Then you go charging in, use nova, then charge away. 

[MartinPenwald]

I'd love to know what the PR teams of other major game industry companies are thinking of this. Are they taking notes? I sure hope so.

[RedTail F22]

Lugaidster wrote...

thatfilmgirl wrote...

jarrettwold wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...
I think she has a point.  We do nitpick.  We tear everything into pieces and analyze the heck out of it.  I for one am going to take her advice.  I am not paranoid by nature -- rather I tend towards optimism.  I think a little optimism is not untoward right now, yes?  

And... that's why I'm ditching out on this thread.  It's like being on the bus with Shido in High School of the Dead.   

A lot of flowery dissections using imagined or absurd PR expertise, replete with prompt applause.  Dissecting every single word down to the syllable of what they're "really saying."  The with us or against us premise and reaction in the thread.  It's just tiring.

So I'm getting off the bus.  

This. I'm all for a new/more sensical ending but I think this is getting seriously out of hand. The longer this goes on, the more hostile it's getting, even with the respecting each other.

I'm taking the same stance. This is getting outta hand.

There are always going to be people in a cause who who feel taking it to the next level is necessary. Whether thats true or not is up to them and the outcome they produce. But I hope this doesn't discourage you from the RetakeME movement. Every voice is a necessity.

Even the Civil Rights movements in the US had those who felt extreme actions were required for change. Those people had to deal with their own consequences while those who remained civil did not back down because of the others and ended up achieving what they fought for. You can still stay civil. Dont let the actions of others(with or against you) dictate what you want changed if the cause is good(which it is). Thats my opinion and I hope it helps.

(Now in no way am I saying that this movement is as large or as important as the civil rights movement. Im simply using it as an example and motivator for those who may feel doubt over where this situation may lead)


Hold The Line!!

[Darkeus]

wepeel_ wrote...

Darkeus wrote...

marshkoala wrote...

By the way that post that's flying around that Mr. Weeks wrote Chris has updated to let you know it is fake.

Yes we can be calm and civil thanks MeldarthX

So confirmed by an EA/Bioware employee that it is fake.

I think I will remain just a bit doubtful....  I am not saying it is true or not but I think I need a less biased soruce telling me it is fake.

Well, there was never any evidence of it being true in the first place, just anonymous internet claims.

Oh, I agree with you.  I am just saying that Mr. Priestly is not exactly the most credible source for debunking this rumor either, that is all.

Again, I don't know if it is fake or not.  But just because Mr. Priestly says so is not going to make me decide it is not fake.  That is all.

[lothvamp]

I've also noticed that the ending supporters seem to be the more antagonistic. So, why are we getting the flak?

Also, this thread moves so fast it's ridiculous

Holding the Line

[ffreak00]

In dubio pro reo please, let's stay fair!

[Apathy1989]

Darkeus wrote...

http://my.spill.com/...issues-spoliers

This is also an interesting blog as well.

Nicely written article, like many I've read.

First paragraph is also very true, I like many have been guilty of throwing vague negatives around - sucks, rubbish or terrible - to describe the ending. While its true, its not helpful without context, which this article provides well.

[akawa106]

I've been following this for a while, and jumping in from time to time, but there was something I was wanting to jump in and say... be it a bit off topic to the latest posts. I recently read an article ----> http://cruiseelroy.n.../03/the-ending/ and one part stood out to me and i quote

"Some fans are saying that the ending to Mass Effect 3 was so bad that it ruined the rest of the game; some say that it ruined the entire series; one poor betrayed soul said that it’s actually ruined all video games."

While I can't be entirely sure he was talking about me I know I did post or tweet or something (I don't remember my exact method of how I communicated it) online saying something to that effect. I feel like I want to get my feelings off my chest as to why I feel this way. I've been a huge gamer for practically as long as I can remember, starting with an atari. I love games, and I can be a bit obsessive with them from time to time, wanting to find out as much as I can about the lore or wtv and talking to people about it (if i know they are at all interested in games too) and it seems the last, I dunno, 6 months of my life have been dedicated to all things ME3. Reading the books, looking online for news every day, not trying to spoil anything but just looking for anything to sate my appetite for things relating to ME3. Working in the electronics dept of a store and having other co-workers around me that are gamers it gave me people to talk to about it, even though I may have came off a bit annoying at times I know because that was practically all I wanted to talk about.

Well as u could probably tell I felt extremely invested in this game/universe that is ME. The game comes out, (i actually had to be at work for the midnight release so it wasnt until much later in the night that I could even start playing it, but that was fine, I waited so long for the conclusion to the ME series what's a few more hours right) I get home stay up for hours playing the game, get up early-ish the next day and start again. I spend every free minute I had on this game, and I'm a 25 yr old that while being a gamer also likes to go out and drink with my friends and have a good time.... a lot, but this game was so good I would put off my friends. To me this was more important than going out in the real world and having real world fun with my friends, at least, I assumed, for the first playthrough.

Flash forward about a week until i beat the game, and I admit at first I was semi-satisfied... I had just thought maybe I chose the wrong choice... or maybe my galactic readiness went down before I beat the game and gave me the "bad" endings... so I went back and made all 3 choices looking at the "differences" and then searched online to see I wasnt the only one confused and dissappointed with the endings... and most of all found out that there was no other endings, save for small details, and that no matter what the end of the game just invalidated everything I had done so far in all 3 games leaving the mass effect universe ruined (in my opinion) from being expanded upon.

This one let-down was so great I felt like I had to re-evaluate my life and my interests. I mean I had so much invested in this game, so much of my life consumed by this and I thought the ending would payoff and leave me feeling satisfied but it left me feeling so empty I really just regret being interested in video games at all. I've gotten myself able to play a bit more (yes ME3) since but only under the midset that the indoctrination theory must be true, because that would make it all worth it... but lately according to updates I'm not so sure that was their intentions and I think until I get confirmation that some ending dlc is going to be release to not just clarify the endings but make our choices matter, I'm done with video games... time to find a new hobby.

Oh, one more thing too, just to emphisize with how much of a gamer I was before this I've had xbox live gold for 7 years adn my gamerscore is 37842 (not that i play games for the achievements that's just more a testiment to how many games I've played) Alright, thanks it feels better to have gotten that off my chest, and sorry for the wall of text.

[Lugaidster]

rfrombrazil wrote...

We have been doing more than behaving so far. Far more than what they expect.

I respectfully disagree. For every two posts I see that are calm and polite I see like 5 of pure rage and fearmongering. If you want to invite discussion to latter pick the responses word by word you aren't really making dialog enticing.

[Carnage752]

Syrellaris wrote...

RedTail F22 wrote...

The fact that Ray states that most of their fans think the whole game is exceptional worries me. I have not seen a single poll/forum/whatever where those who liked the ending outnumber those who did not. Its not even close. Sooner or later they need to realise just how bad they messed up. The fact that they got so many great reviews made this fight an uphill battle for us but its something I see we're fully prepared for. I'd like to say that I believe they're doing what is right but its just not looking like their even willing to fully recognize us yet... But we're not done yet, are we? No.

Hold the Line!!

I think he means that pretty much the entire game is awsome, except for the ending as that is what most people have criticism on. Regardless of the last 5 minutes the rest of the game has been an exceptional experience.

Agreed. The game is great. But the ending is preventing many of us from enjoying it to the fullest. That's why I'm here.

[Carnage752]

Lugaidster wrote...

rfrombrazil wrote...

We have been doing more than behaving so far. Far more than what they expect.

I respectfully disagree. For every two posts I see that are calm and polite I see like 5 of pure rage and fearmongering. If you want to invite discussion to latter pick the responses word by word you aren't really making dialog enticing.

I say the ratio is switched around really, and being suspicious isn't neccesarily "fearmongering." That is kinda negative.

[ReavousX]

Lugaidster wrote...

rfrombrazil wrote...

We have been doing more than behaving so far. Far more than what they expect.

I respectfully disagree. For every two posts I see that are calm and polite I see like 5 of pure rage and fearmongering. If you want to invite discussion to latter pick the responses word by word you aren't really making dialog enticing.

Funny that you post that on a page where there's not even one post of "pure rage and fearmongering".