9972 réponses à ce sujet

[mione]

If $15 ending DLC hits shelves in a month or two that reveals this
theory as correct, it will be one of the lowest points in video game
history. Had a complete ending been fashioned alongside this plot twist,
Mass Effect could have been the greatest story ever told through the
medium and fans would have bowed at Bioware’s feet, praising them for
the
best finale they’ve ever seen. But instead, if the “true” ending really
was cut to be sold later as DLC, it’s proof that maybe video games
aren’t art after all. They’re just a product to be bought and sold in
pieces regardless of the effect such decisions may have on the
experience or the story.

This. This was my biggest fear in regards to this whole 'ending' situation.

Hey video game companies!

Is the powers that be giving you a rushed due date? just make a sub par ending, then sell the real ending months later as DLC!

We have all seen the 'deleted' scenes from the battle in London (they are pretty much finished give or take some tweaking) plus the cut voice over work. It just doesn't make sense to waste all that work, time and resources unless they planed to release this content in some form later on.

[Fulgrim88]

Yeah, that train has left the station.
Sad to think of what could've been, but oh well.

I hope they learn from this that rushing stuff doesn't always work. That in fact, it can hurt your revenue more than does giving it the time it deserves.

Aside from that, I'm probably not the first to ask; but I'd really love to see atghunters thoughts on Ray's post

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 21 mars 2012 - 09:54 .

[NSGM]

mione wrote...

If $15 ending DLC hits shelves in a month or two that reveals this
theory as correct, it will be one of the lowest points in video game
history. Had a complete ending been fashioned alongside this plot twist,
Mass Effect could have been the greatest story ever told through the
medium and fans would have bowed at Bioware’s feet, praising them for
the
best finale they’ve ever seen. But instead, if the “true” ending really
was cut to be sold later as DLC, it’s proof that maybe video games
aren’t art after all. They’re just a product to be bought and sold in
pieces regardless of the effect such decisions may have on the
experience or the story.

This. This was my biggest fear in regards to this whole 'ending' situation.

Hey video game companies!

Is the powers that be giving you a rushed due date? just make a sub par ending, then sell the real ending months later as DLC!

We have all seen the 'deleted' scenes from the battle in London (they are pretty much finished give or take some tweaking) plus the cut voice over work. It just doesn't make sense to waste all that work, time and resources unless they planed to release this content in some form later on.

Hopefully, the massive community response that you guys have show Bioware will convince them that not only will a cheesy/under-developed ending not work, it will ultimatley damge the game and the franchise as it did with DAII.

Once you get a bit more press, it may be time for you to tell Bioware that you as a community are willing to wait for a proper and fitting ending to ME3. You'd rather have greatness that takes 3 months to create, than mediocrity that takes a month to prepare and is simply rushed out to quell the negative press they're receiving.

Tell them that not only are you willing to wait, but you're willing to work WITH  them on a new ending. This would show the world (and the press) that Bioware is taking the feedback seriously and while they wish to stop the negative press from continuing, they also want to do things right and therefore would like to collaborate with passionate fans in order to deliver the best product possible.

Modifié par NSGM, 21 mars 2012 - 09:59 .

[G0ldmember]

Takibanazaki wrote...

Without sounding obnoxius I would have a question:

Could someone please tell me why reviewers matter?

I mean sure, they are professionals, but they aren't the consumers, who actually buy the product.
Or am I missing something here?

High reviews (or 90+ metacritic scores) = high sales. People almost always want to see what the product is like before spending their money on it. That goes for games as well as cars, electronics, concerts, cloathing, etc. You think "Enter the Matrix" (for the old gamers amongst us) back in 2000 wouldve sold millions if people knew what a buggy, horrible, rushjob it was? The game sold so well because of the Matrix movies hype, not because of the stellar gameplay and graphics.

The way ME3 is being bombed on Amazon, Metacritic (user scores) and the negativity in the press WILL have effect on their sales in the long run. Thus the battle we are in right now. Us who preordered the game WITHOUT checking the (independent) reviews first who want whats due and EA trying to put us all into one big hole, coverd with a 50.000 ton concrete slab, because sales are dropping.

Modifié par G0ldmember, 21 mars 2012 - 09:58 .

[Darthlawsuit]

mione wrote...

If $15 ending DLC hits shelves in a month or two that reveals this
theory as correct, it will be one of the lowest points in video game
history. Had a complete ending been fashioned alongside this plot twist,
Mass Effect could have been the greatest story ever told through the
medium and fans would have bowed at Bioware’s feet, praising them for
the
best finale they’ve ever seen. But instead, if the “true” ending really
was cut to be sold later as DLC, it’s proof that maybe video games
aren’t art after all. They’re just a product to be bought and sold in
pieces regardless of the effect such decisions may have on the
experience or the story.

This. This was my biggest fear in regards to this whole 'ending' situation.

Hey video game companies!

Is the powers that be giving you a rushed due date? just make a sub par ending, then sell the real ending months later as DLC!

We have all seen the 'deleted' scenes from the battle in London (they are pretty much finished give or take some tweaking) plus the cut voice over work. It just doesn't make sense to waste all that work, time and resources unless they planed to release this content in some form later on.

DLC has been great for some games. Infact Paradox Games has used DLC to SELL user made mods and the users that made the mod got a good chunk of the cash. I am not saying they copied and pasted I am saying a mod team worked with Paradox to release a complex mod for the game and sold it as a DLC through paradox's digigital distribution centers. Oblivion released some very good DLC that added stuff the fans really wanted, namely a castle of your own XD.

DLC can be a very good thing but it is easy to abuse and EA games will abuse it.

See my siggy - Hold the line

[BadlyBrowned]

mione wrote...

If $15 ending DLC hits shelves in a month or two that reveals this
theory as correct, it will be one of the lowest points in video game
history. Had a complete ending been fashioned alongside this plot twist,
Mass Effect could have been the greatest story ever told through the
medium and fans would have bowed at Bioware’s feet, praising them for
the
best finale they’ve ever seen. But instead, if the “true” ending really
was cut to be sold later as DLC, it’s proof that maybe video games
aren’t art after all. They’re just a product to be bought and sold in
pieces regardless of the effect such decisions may have on the
experience or the story.

This. This was my biggest fear in regards to this whole 'ending' situation.

Hey video game companies!

Is the powers that be giving you a rushed due date? just make a sub par ending, then sell the real ending months later as DLC!

We have all seen the 'deleted' scenes from the battle in London (they are pretty much finished give or take some tweaking) plus the cut voice over work. It just doesn't make sense to waste all that work, time and resources unless they planed to release this content in some form later on.

Completely 100% agree.

[Jedifan421]

Takibanazaki wrote...

Without sounding obnoxius I would have a question:

Could someone please tell me why reviewers matter?

I mean sure, they are professionals, but they aren't the consumers, who actually buy the product.
Or am I missing something here?

Reviewers matter because companies can point to them, with most of the reviewers on major gaming sites paid off to have ad space for a certain game, so they can have a little circle jerk in their offices later about how much "75 professional reviewers" love their game and then point out in press releases such as the one today that this game got "so and so amount of perfect reviews and the like".

It happens in Hollywood and has happened for 80 plus years and in the RIAA with publications like Rolling Stone and in the publishing industry with reviews in the NY Times and figureheads like Oprah praising your product and attracting more consumers going out to buy it.

At the end of the day though, it can work in reverse. Critics can depise something and people can still consume it in large numbers like watching the Transformers movies or buying a ShamWow or Million Little Pieces or whatever.

But, if critics love something, and people don't buy it, then the company doesn't care about review scores. Mass Effect 3 sold over 2.6 million copies so far or whatever and has all these scores. It's like the icing on the cake for BioWare and especially EA.

We as a "group of loyal fans" having denounced the ending of Mass Effect 3, arguably one of the main selling points of this product, have hurt BioWare and EA's pride and now they want to try to ammend it, even if it means with paid DLC, or "gameplay initiatives", which it shouldn't. It should be free or it should have just been in the game to begin with.

It's going to be interesting in April then to see what they do now that they realize that people really don't like their endings. It's going to be VERY interesting to see what they do.

[Darth_Trethon]

Daira wrote...

CoyoteLovely wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

Bioware co-founder Dr. Ray Muzyka releases a statement.

Forbes analyzes Muzyka's statement with a scintillating article.

JohnnyG provides exactly what Dr. Muzyka requested - constructive criticism.

Any new word from ATG? 

Its like ATG said. It goes by the Book.
It's sad to see that the Bossfight does not happen ingame.

And yeah "art" =>

But we did get a majot gain with this statement....we obtained BioWare's committment to fixing the ending.....may not be what we envision na dploeasing everyone is not possible but even bringing a great degree of clarity should improve the game. It's not even the choices themselves that bother me but all the plot holes and things that plain make no sense. To me it looks like they have little choice but to roll with the indoctrination theory or a dream scenario....perhaps mix it with reality, like saying ok, all that was a major indoctrination attempt but the reaper destruction was real.

Wether this is a victory or not remains to be seen on how well the content is handled.

[MeldarthX]

Ok folks - Break down

I was speaking to my father about this - before he retired; a couple years ago - He was CFO - Exe VP -

To get CEO of a company to address so quickly is amazing - two week. He said only time he's seen that was with New Coke and this was in the age before social media.

He said you've hurt them enough to get the parent company to pull one of their VPs in and say; look this a mess - economics is hurting them.

So - to get what we want - keep the pressure on.......

Keep writing - keep tweeting - keep giving suggestions - Be civil - be respectful.

most of all.....

HOLD THE LINE

[ReavousX]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Daira wrote...

CoyoteLovely wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

Bioware co-founder Dr. Ray Muzyka releases a statement.

Forbes analyzes Muzyka's statement with a scintillating article.

JohnnyG provides exactly what Dr. Muzyka requested - constructive criticism.

Any new word from ATG? 

Its like ATG said. It goes by the Book.
It's sad to see that the Bossfight does not happen ingame.

And yeah "art" =>

But we did get a majot gain with this statement....we obtained BioWare's committment to fixing the ending.....may not be what we envision na dploeasing everyone is not possible but even bringing a great degree of clarity should improve the game. It's not even the choices themselves that bother me but all the plot holes and things that plain make no sense. To me it looks like they have little choice but to roll with the indoctrination theory or a dream scenario....perhaps mix it with reality, like saying ok, all that was a major indoctrination attempt but the reaper destruction was real.

Wether this is a victory or not remains to be seen on how well the content is handled.

Getting some investigative conversation with the Catalyst won't change anything, which I presume is exactly what they will do.  I can see that these endings are horrible clear enough already, more clarity may in fact drive me mad.

[Fulgrim88]

NSGM wrote...

Hopefully, the massive community response that you guys have show Bioware will convince them that not only will a cheesy/under-developed ending not work, it will ultimatley damge the game and the franchise as it did with DAII.

Once you get a bit more press, it may be time for you to tell Bioware that you as a community are willing to wait for a proper and fitting ending to ME3. You'd rather have greatness that takes 3 months to create, than mediocrity that takes a month to prepare and is simply rushed out to quell the negative press they're receiving.

Tell them that not only are you willing to wait, but you're willing to work WITH  them on a new ending. This would show the world (and the press) that Bioware is taking the feedback seriously and while they wish to stop the negative press from continuing, they also want to do things right and therefore would like to collaborate with passionate fans in order to deliver the best product possible.

Pretty much this.

It's rather hard to get out a coherent message though.
This would need to be updated in the Charity, or at least in the Retake thread. Press seems to focus on that one.

I'm somewhat against the notion of a Spokesperson, seeing as that would give one person (probably still green when it comes to the big stage) too much power, to good or ill.

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 21 mars 2012 - 10:18 .

[Xivai]

MeldarthX wrote...

Ok folks - Break down

I was speaking to my father about this - before he retired; a couple years ago - He was CFO - Exe VP -

To get CEO of a company to address so quickly is amazing - two week. He said only time he's seen that was with New Coke and this was in the age before social media.

He said you've hurt them enough to get the parent company to pull one of their VPs in and say; look this a mess - economics is hurting them.

So - to get what we want - keep the pressure on.......

Keep writing - keep tweeting - keep giving suggestions - Be civil - be respectful.

most of all.....

HOLD THE LINE

Sounds about right, we can't let one tiny small victory get to our heads. Keep the pressure up. We'll get real answers soon, I guarantee it will be a different song by April if we put this much or mor epressur eon them the entire time.

[ReavousX]

MeldarthX wrote...

Ok folks - Break down

I was speaking to my father about this - before he retired; a couple years ago - He was CFO - Exe VP -

To get CEO of a company to address so quickly is amazing - two week. He said only time he's seen that was with New Coke and this was in the age before social media.

He said you've hurt them enough to get the parent company to pull one of their VPs in and say; look this a mess - economics is hurting them.

So - to get what we want - keep the pressure on.......

Keep writing - keep tweeting - keep giving suggestions - Be civil - be respectful.

most of all.....

HOLD THE LINE

Exactly.  This means that discussions have been going on between EA and Bioware, and that the call was made to send out the big guns in only a little over two weeks.  

Yeah, we're just a handful of angry fans who don't want to let go...if they honestly believe that, and act on it, it may very well be their undoing. 

[PseudoticA]

MeldarthX wrote...

Ok folks - Break down

I was speaking to my father about this - before he retired; a couple years ago - He was CFO - Exe VP -

To get CEO of a company to address so quickly is amazing - two week. He said only time he's seen that was with New Coke and this was in the age before social media.

He said you've hurt them enough to get the parent company to pull one of their VPs in and say; look this a mess - economics is hurting them.

So - to get what we want - keep the pressure on.......

Keep writing - keep tweeting - keep giving suggestions - Be civil - be respectful.

most of all.....

HOLD THE LINE

That is what i thinked.. thanks for the hint, obviously they stick to the " some fans blablal.. not a serious matter blabla "
But i believe this is costing them more than they say.
(Sorry for my bad english) 

HOLD THE LINE!!

[Ares14916]

The fact that one of the doctors had to give a press release says at a very minimum that they are really feeling the heat, as from what I've seen the bioware founders have rather good reputations still so they might be trying to exploit that.

And have another article discussing the ending controversy: this story is getting picked up by more and more groups that you would never think would discuss games.

http://www.theatlant...nt-like/254825/

Modifié par Ares14916, 21 mars 2012 - 10:12 .

[Darth_Trethon]

MeldarthX wrote...

Ok folks - Break down

I was speaking to my father about this - before he retired; a couple years ago - He was CFO - Exe VP -

To get CEO of a company to address so quickly is amazing - two week. He said only time he's seen that was with New Coke and this was in the age before social media.

He said you've hurt them enough to get the parent company to pull one of their VPs in and say; look this a mess - economics is hurting them.

So - to get what we want - keep the pressure on.......

Keep writing - keep tweeting - keep giving suggestions - Be civil - be respectful.

most of all.....

HOLD THE LINE

At this point the only pressure that really counts is economical....as long as ME3 sales don't drastically rise(I doubt they will) all should be good. Now they HAVE to please and market to the core base, those remaining after this mess, and hope to draw back in some of the lost. Their CEO DID commit to changing the ending and given how badly they've been hit I seriously doubt he's lying....not on any moral grounds but to salvage what they can of the situation before 80%+ of those who bought return their copies.

[musicaleCA]

With all the talk about just how glaringly bad IGN and other review sites have been on this issue, a couple of us have decided to organize and pledge to review future DLC, from our perspective. The perspective of dedicated fans of the series, who are passionate about ME3, but don't have the same conflict-of-interest (since we aren't getting any monetary return out of it).

Myself and din626 have decided it's high time for something like this, and we're both pledging to review future content-oriented DLC (think Lair of the Shadow Broker, not appearance packs ).

So to all who are interested, come join the group.

[Darth_Trethon]

ReavousX wrote...

Getting some investigative conversation with the Catalyst won't change anything, which I presume is exactly what they will do.  I can see that these endings are horrible clear enough already, more clarity may in fact drive me mad.

No, that would be idiotic of them and they are well aware there's a lot more wrong with the ending than the catalyst and three choices......what do people REALLY care about? Theam members, LIs, allies and so on.....they would not bother altering the ending without touching these issues because ignoring these would be stupid of them.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 21 mars 2012 - 10:18 .

[Luiginius]

Still waiting for a comment about the statements Hudson & Gamble kept making throughout the year leading to release.

[LeoSpike]

MeldarthX wrote...

Ok folks - Break down

I was speaking to my father about this - before he retired; a couple years ago - He was CFO - Exe VP -

To get CEO of a company to address so quickly is amazing - two week. He said only time he's seen that was with New Coke and this was in the age before social media.

He said you've hurt them enough to get the parent company to pull one of their VPs in and say; look this a mess - economics is hurting them.

So - to get what we want - keep the pressure on.......

Keep writing - keep tweeting - keep giving suggestions - Be civil - be respectful.

most of all.....

HOLD THE LINE

Thanks to you and your father!  I was hoping I wasn't wrong.

Folks, it goes to prove what Garrus said. Keep yelling long and hard and you'll get attention.

Now that we've got EA's attention in full, what's our next step?

Do we just go quiet, leaving it all to BioWare and hope they deliver what we expect?

Do we try and open a more interactive dialogue and try to become part of the process so we can have input as they move forward?

This choice is ours. We got what we wanted, a co-founder having to deal with us.

It's far from over. Now the hard part begins. How do we ensure the "game content initiatives" are going to address our concerns?

Mass Effect 3 has several functionality and game content issues that affect the core gameplay. These issues need to be addressed.

Modifié par LeoSpike, 21 mars 2012 - 10:25 .

[Shadow98]

     So I finally decided to post. I support the ending change for many reasons that have already been stated (e.g. broken promises from interviews, no real change on a visual level, major plot holes, ... ect) I feel bad that this has happened to Bioware but to be honest the heat the production team is getting is whats gonna happen when you talk a game up so much and promise all these amazing things then give an ending that is ..... lets just say less than satisfying. It seems that the production team all were on a "hype trip" during interviews. (also known as "pulling a Molyneux")

      Very sad for all the pressure that is coming on them but again as I have seen elsewhere if your going to claim the art defense you have to accept that people may not want to buy your vison any longer if they disagree with how you have done things. Also to everyone who wishes to say that video games are art like all other media (not disputing this) well you must realize that movies are reguarly changed at the ending if a test audience dosen't like them.(So that not only are people satisfied but so that it gains good reviews from people and generates money) I honestly think that having such test periods for video games such as this might be a good idea in the future to avoid fan backlash.

A first and very long post done

[Sirei]

Could anyone here make a question lists that we can agree upon and one or two (or three four whatever see that you go together meet up or so) will ask these questions? Cause I can't come, america is way too far away and somebody that can could at least represent us(me, a small part of us?)

Anyway, I see everything that Bioware posts with a bit of sceptism. Cause I love them, their games and so on but what they do atm is either ignoring (some) fans or repeating the same line again and again.

I am still holding the line guys, but I don't know if I am able to wait till april to get some answer and not loose hope.

Btw http://pats-quinade.livejournal.com/ has some nice lines who has what written. Anyone knows who exactly that is?

[Vap0ur_Snake]

Lugaidster wrote...

rfrombrazil wrote...

We have been doing more than behaving so far. Far more than what they expect.

I respectfully disagree. For every two posts I see that are calm and polite I see like 5 of pure rage and fearmongering. If you want to invite discussion to latter pick the responses word by word you aren't really making dialog enticing.

Im sorry but that's complete rubbish. I've been on this thread constantly since last Friday and I've seen maybe 4 posts that were aggressive out of nearly 400 pages. Did you just make that up, I'd love to know where you get those figures from because everyone on this thread, in this movement is 110% paragon. 



HOLD THE LINE -our choices should matter

Modifié par Vap0ur_Snake, 21 mars 2012 - 10:37 .

[mi_dad]

jarrettwold wrote...

A lot of flowery dissections using imagined or absurd PR expertise, replete with prompt applause.  Dissecting every single word down to the syllable of what they're "really saying."  The with us or against us premise and reaction in the thread.  It's just tiring.

So I'm getting off the bus.  

I cannot recall exactly which news outlet it was, but there was an article that pretty much said atghunters dissection of statements from BioWare was spot on.  They then said that previous to the internet age not many people would have heard his statements. The article then talked avbout basic PR tactics and how the classic ones are not as effective or flat out do not work in the always connected age.  They also saw the statements made in pre-release interviews, saw the end of the game and said they (the fans) are right and  what they got is not what BioWare promised

As far as what the bioware people have said; It really takes guts to come into a forum like this and try to personally engage people you know are downright pissed about ME3.  And that being said,  I would love to believe a company like BioWare, that has produced numerous great titles over the years, is going to do the right thing and not just explain the crappy endings we got, but they are actually going to give us the endings they promised.  when i say endings they promised they dont have to remove the current endings but we should get more than A,B or C,.

Sitting on my patio beer in hand,
Holding the Line

Modifié par mi_dad, 21 mars 2012 - 10:27 .

[Nicky 192]

They underestimated the back lash. I hope at the very least they learn from all of this and that it will make them think twice about releasing a sub par product in future.I hope they realise,that they just can't take their fans respect for past achievements for granted . In the wake of this ,with Dragon age 3 coming and the failure of Dragon age 2 people will be watching very carefully