9972 réponses à ce sujet

[MiguelGarciaCalvin]

shephard987 wrote...

G0ldmember wrote...

Sigh...we....are....being...civil....here....we....are...civil....we......I give up. We (here, this thread, here, right here right now. Not twitter, not email, HERE) have been civil the whole time but constantly we are being questioned about why we are NOT civil. IGN, Kotaku, Giantbomb and all those big sites constantly rip us apart with lies but WE have to stay civil.

Even Ghandi didnt have to endure this much!

/rant

I'm good now...

We all know how frustrating it is. And they will KEEP thinking that about us,
UNTIL we show them they have a wrong picture of us. 
You would be surprised by the responses we are getting now from the media, 
as some are lauding us for keeping to our cause. 
When you find an article that bashes our movement for something we are not,
SHOW THEM. TELL THEM. SPREAD THE RATIONALE. 
If we show them reason, they will understand.
We're doing well in our cause. 
But this is far from over.
CIVILITY IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE
and DO not lose HOPE. 
Ask yourself, what would Jesus do? 
What would Ghandi do?
What would Shepard do? 

THEN DO IT.

Hold the Line

You mean paragon Shepard, right? Because I'm pretty sure RenShep (heh, renfair Shep) would be breaking some legs and punching some reporters.

[SilentWolfie]

I just realized why the cofounder keeps on using the professional reviews score. He's trying to do PR control and telling people who read this that it's a good game, just that the ending isn't satisfactory.

[Chumasaurus]

Okay, writing a new reply here entirely.

Somehow the nice twitter lady's post got changed with my name on it as writing it. I didn't write that.

I was responding to someone talking about everyone getting really fat headed and thinking they are all PR experts. Which, I feel we need to step back a little bit and chill and not go after people for thinking everyone is out to get us when we have no evidence against it.

Just wanted to make sure that was all clear, thanks!

[Mavaras]

MikeRoz wrote...

Ignore people like him. The rest of us are willing and eager to engage in civil discussion when the time is right.

This is the problem. You can't ignore valid criticism because somebody isn't being an apologetic. Everything I have read from Matty has been civil.

[IndustrializedTaco]

What the hell happened while I was gone? It seems like the whole civil stance was thrown out the window from what I read. Can someone tell me what happened?

[Ampmaster]

I'm tired of the BS and games, the PR double speak and general gamesmanship evident in the whole mess of this. I feel like a clear statement shouldn't be that hard to issue. While I appreciate Dr. M's addressing the lot of us directly instead of going through the big news outlets it did indeed feel like more of the same, smoke, mirrors and ultimately a big run around. That said none of that is an excuse to start acting like a bunch of idiots. Some of you have even seemed to catch the idea that Bioware is some how "the enemy" or the bad guy in this little cluster. Newsflash Bioware is NOT the enemy. There is no enemy here and some of you lot need to check your IFFs if you're shooting your mouths off and generally acting like ****s. Bioware is a company who's passionate about their products and I'd say we are at least as passionate about it as they are, they love to create and we love what they create,

Run around or not Dr. M, Casey, Chris, and especially the ever pleasant (in the face of the worst of us, a herculean feat if I've ever heard one) Jessica Merizan and everyone else taking the time to actually talk to us are talking to us and you can be assured that that they are listening. This is the long game we're playing here folks. Nothing's going to be solved in a week, two weeks or even *gasp* three weeks. I think the estimate everyone's saying about the first serious word coming at PAX is probably close to accurate. It really doesn't matter. Dr. M, no less then the co-founder of the company just told us April. So we have to wait till April and acting like a herd of idiots is not going to change that at all. Well... it could make them change their minds about listening to us, and shut down the starts of a healthy dialogue on the subject.

There's a common concept in the military called bearing. It refers to keeping your cool and carrying on no matter what in the nine hells is going on around it. While most of the Retake movement are card carrying unprintable civilians (not that there's a problem with that ) we can stand to take a leaf from that particular book. So let's keep our bearing, continue to comport ourselves as the rational mature adults and teenagers we are and hold the line!

Semper Fi and Keelah Se'lai

PS All that said we're doing damn good people, and don't let any one tell you otherwise,

[shephard987]

Chumasaurus wrote...


HOLD THE PHONE!!!! Don't know how this happened, but that is a misquote, I did not say that. The Twitter lady said that!

Forgive me, I should have clarified. We know you didn't say that, 
I was speaking of Mattynutz's somewhat aggressive demeanor when they wrote to 
Ms. Merizan. 
DId not mean to put the blame on you at all. 
I apologize. 

Hold the Line

[Enichan]

You know what I dislike about the whole paranoid rethoric that's been a little too heavy up in here the last day or two? That you can't argue with it. If Bioware's people argue with it it's just a PR ploy. If we argue with it we're just saps who are falling for the ploy. So what, you guys are just right by virtue of always being right?

And for the record, being cold while not directly insulting is not being civil. I'm sure I'll be labelled an idiot for "falling for the ruse" and "sowing dissent in the ranks", but whatever. If anyone wants me, I'll be over in the Child's Play thread.

[seitani]

Mavaras wrote...

seitani wrote...

Mavaras wrote...

Chumasaurus wrote...

"Mattynutz" - I am not disengaging because of people saying mean things to me on my Twitter or in the forums. I can take it. It's not because evil PR told me not to talk anymore or because this is part of the master plan to win your sympathy and attack you when you least expect it. I'm disengaging because of you and people like you. I won't say anything more than that.

For everyone else, we're discussing dinosaurs and puppies on my Twitter if you're interested. You can hold the line and still choose to engage in positive discussion.

Woah, that is pretty unacceptable. I must have missed her saying that.

"I'm disengaging because of you and people like you. I won't say anything more than that."

Absolutely unacceptable behavior.

Here we go again picking posts apart

Lol. You really bought into her rhetoric hook line and sinker didn't you?

I didn't "bought" anything but picking her every post apart and overanalyzing every word is ****ing stupid.

Modifié par seitani, 22 mars 2012 - 01:40 .

[rfrombrazil]

beetlebailey123 wrote...

What the hell happened while I was gone? It seems like the whole civil stance was thrown out the window from what I read. Can someone tell me what happened?

Yes, kind of out of the blue people started coming here and tell us that we were somehow not being civil about our movement. Started not that long ago, too, if you want to see its just about 10 pages on I think. (maybe 20)

[LeoSpike]

Adam2190 wrote...

I really wish BioWare would take a leaf out of Bethesda's book and make a Broken Steel type DLC, that may they offer more content and gameplay while justifying charging people for it. Whatever they do though i really hope they don't just tack on some form of written epilogue to the current ending.

After watching AngryJoe's second post on this "indoctrination theory" I believe you're right. You all should take a few minutes and watch the second video. Kind of makes it obvious that there is DLC coming, and it is directly linked to at least one of the 3 choices given at the current ending.

Modifié par LeoSpike, 22 mars 2012 - 01:59 .

[Kilshrek]

Let me leave you all with this piece of hypocrisy to consider.

Appearance pack DLC = players want these sort of DLC, so we release more of them. It makes business sense.

Ending DLC = we have to defend our artistic integrity.

[cyrrant]

MikeRoz wrote...

Ignore people like him. The rest of us are willing and eager to engage in civil discussion when the time is right.

I know I made a post earlier asking mattynutz to tone it down, but this kind of thing is not helpful.  Turning against each other just as we've started to see progress being made is no bueno.

If you have specific problems with his post, pick them out and address them in a civil manner, instead of dismissing him out of hand.  Castigating and driving out one of our own, even if he is vociferous in a way we'd prefer he wasn't, is not what this movement is about.  We all want the same thing, and we're all on the same side.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[Vap0ur_Snake]

Hey, forgot so say earlier I was taking some time out and going to play some none bioware RPG, hence the silence.
Just popped head in to see how you guys are doing, drop off some supplies for the line.

Been anything new in the last hour or so?

HOLD THE LINE - Our choices should matter.

Modifié par Vap0ur_Snake, 22 mars 2012 - 01:41 .

[Nette]

Ampmaster wrote...

I'm tired of the BS and games, the PR double speak and general gamesmanship evident in the whole mess of this. I feel like a clear statement shouldn't be that hard to issue. While I appreciate Dr. M's addressing the lot of us directly instead of going through the big news outlets it did indeed feel like more of the same, smoke, mirrors and ultimately a big run around. That said none of that is an excuse to start acting like a bunch of idiots. Some of you have even seemed to catch the idea that Bioware is some how "the enemy" or the bad guy in this little cluster. Newsflash Bioware is NOT the enemy. There is no enemy here and some of you lot need to check your IFFs if you're shooting your mouths off and generally acting like ****s. Bioware is a company who's passionate about their products and I'd say we are at least as passionate about it as they are, they love to create and we love what they create,

Run around or not Dr. M, Casey, Chris, and especially the ever pleasant (in the face of the worst of us, a herculean feat if I've ever heard one) Jessica Merizan and everyone else taking the time to actually talk to us are talking to us and you can be assured that that they are listening. This is the long game we're playing here folks. Nothing's going to be solved in a week, two weeks or even *gasp* three weeks. I think the estimate everyone's saying about the first serious word coming at PAX is probably close to accurate. It really doesn't matter. Dr. M, no less then the co-founder of the company just told us April. So we have to wait till April and acting like a herd of idiots is not going to change that at all. Well... it could make them change their minds about listening to us, and shut down the starts of a healthy dialogue on the subject.

There's a common concept in the military called bearing. It refers to keeping your cool and carrying on no matter what in the nine hells is going on around it. While most of the Retake movement are card carrying unprintable civilians (not that there's a problem with that ) we can stand to take a leaf from that particular book. So let's keep our bearing, continue to comport ourselves as the rational mature adults and teenagers we are and hold the line!

Semper Fi and Keelah Se'lai

PS All that said we're doing damn good people, and don't let any one tell you otherwise,

Well said!

[Ender99]

Wow, what did I miss when I was at work today? Things seem a little....heated on here. Well, more heated than normal.

Hold the line

[Mavaras]

Ampmaster wrote...

I'm tired of the BS and games, the PR double speak and general gamesmanship evident in the whole mess of this. I feel like a clear statement shouldn't be that hard to issue. While I appreciate Dr. M's addressing the lot of us directly instead of going through the big news outlets it did indeed feel like more of the same, smoke, mirrors and ultimately a big run around. That said none of that is an excuse to start acting like a bunch of idiots. Some of you have even seemed to catch the idea that Bioware is some how "the enemy" or the bad guy in this little cluster. Newsflash Bioware is NOT the enemy. There is no enemy here and some of you lot need to check your IFFs if you're shooting your mouths off and generally acting like ****s. Bioware is a company who's passionate about their products and I'd say we are at least as passionate about it as they are, they love to create and we love what they create,

Run around or not Dr. M, Casey, Chris, and especially the ever pleasant (in the face of the worst of us, a herculean feat if I've ever heard one) Jessica Merizan and everyone else taking the time to actually talk to us are talking to us and you can be assured that that they are listening. This is the long game we're playing here folks. Nothing's going to be solved in a week, two weeks or even *gasp* three weeks. I think the estimate everyone's saying about the first serious word coming at PAX is probably close to accurate. It really doesn't matter. Dr. M, no less then the co-founder of the company just told us April. So we have to wait till April and acting like a herd of idiots is not going to change that at all. Well... it could make them change their minds about listening to us, and shut down the starts of a healthy dialogue on the subject.

There's a common concept in the military called bearing. It refers to keeping your cool and carrying on no matter what in the nine hells is going on around it. While most of the Retake movement are card carrying unprintable civilians (not that there's a problem with that ) we can stand to take a leaf from that particular book. So let's keep our bearing, continue to comport ourselves as the rational mature adults and teenagers we are and hold the line!

Semper Fi and Keelah Se'lai

PS All that said we're doing damn good people, and don't let any one tell you otherwise,

I agree, maybe I'm being too abrassive about the matter. I just don't like disregarding people's opinions like this. Every single one of us has a right to feedback, and if that feedback is based on logic and critical thinking, we should be respectful to each other. Being critical is not ground to dismiss somebody's opinions. The whole point of this discussion is contingent upon us respecting EACH OTHER. That is why I used a war anology. I love Bioware, but YOU GUYS are the one's that will help me achieve my goals.

It is stupid to fight with each other. We all need to be on the same page.

Modifié par Mavaras, 22 mars 2012 - 01:45 .

[Janus382]

 Relax.  Ms. Merizan is no longer engaging us in in-depth BW discussion because she doesn't like having her words be over-analyzed and misconstrued, which is understandable.  So... stop over-analyzing and misconstruing her explanation for no longer engaging us in in-depth BW discussion.  There is little (or no) gain, and a lot to lose, obviously,  as she isn't responsible for any content changes or clarification coming our way in the future.  So just chill and let it go.

Feel free to analyze words from Casey Hudson, Mac Walters, or Dr. Muzyka, since they are responsible for content in some way, shape, or form, but ease up a bit on the speculation.  We know they're planning to do something, but we don't know what yet, and we won't know until sometime in April.  We need to relax (a little) and bring the tone back to what it was just yesterday, or risk being crushed by the weight of our own impatience.

Keep calm, stay civil, Hold The Line.

Modifié par Janus382, 22 mars 2012 - 01:43 .

[G0ldmember]

beetlebailey123 wrote...

What the hell happened while I was gone? It seems like the whole civil stance was thrown out the window from what I read. Can someone tell me what happened?

Women

Jessica, which I assume had the upmost intentions and I love her dearly, but she added fuel to the fire by criticizing one of us personally. Then it was us vs him, him vs them, them vs them and in two pages it is now totally out of control with everyone grabbing each others throat. Divide and conquer?

We need a peacemaker here fast before this gets on IGN in the next 15 minutes.

Edit: Atghunter IMPECCIBLE TIMING! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! <3

Modifié par G0ldmember, 22 mars 2012 - 01:52 .

[atghunter]

CoyoteLovely wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

Bioware co-founder Dr. Ray Muzyka releases a statement.

Forbes analyzes Muzyka's statement with a scintillating article.

JohnnyG provides exactly what Dr. Muzyka requested - constructive criticism.

Any new word from ATG? 

Good Morning, Afternoon, and Evening (here) to All,

Once more my compliments to everyone here for continuing a civil discourse!  Over 350 pages of dialogue, vastly positive, very informative, and genuinely supportive not only of each other but the idea of standing up and letting your voice be heard no matter which side you are on!

I've seen chartrooms that couldn't post 350 lines of text without someone accusing someone else of being the devil incarnate!  Each of you is really amazing.  Does everyone always agree?  No (and I wouldn't want it any other way personally, I love the diversity here).  Do dustups occur?  Of course, but people keep moving.  Ultimately, even with the speculation, the critics assaults, and the (sometimes agonizing) waiting game, I watch folks soldier on.

As for the only development really of note today (Mr. Muzuka's blog), I posted a couple quick thoughts earlier, but the Forbes article by Mr. Kain gives some fascinating perspectives.  The Atlantic article also is a great read and I suggest everyone take a look if so inclined. My personal take at the end of the day? Cautious optimism with a whole heaping helping of determination and an understanding this customer/business disconnect is far from over.

I can only extol everyone to continue to let your voice be heard (as so many others have said here), but pace yourself.  There are so many good ideas here!  And no matter how things ultimately turn out (and make no mistake I'm always pulling for that great ending), there can be no doubt that what has happened to date is because dissatisfied customers, consumers, and patrons stood up and called out their disapproval instead of standing moot.

Ok, I absolutely have to dedicate myself to my inbox tonight (it is like a grain silo full of tribbles atm), and my wife has threatened to knock me unconscious if I go one more night on three hours of sleep, so I'll not be likely commenting much this evening unless I get through there quickly (this thread is as distracting to this old gamer as a squirrel is to my old border collie).

Speculation isn't "paranoia" its critical thought.  Just as every night sound isn't a danger, sometimes its just, well, night.  One of the many things that make this thread so great is that we have folks with so many backgrounds sharing their perspectives, applying the available data, discussing, and deciding for themselves.

Stay well, stay passionate, stay civil, and continue to use your voice no matter which side you take.  As for me, as always, I shall be beside you all (locked in my inbox this evening) holding the line!

P.S.  As to the Parrot picture mentioned earlier and requests to view said picture.  I'm afraid there was only one copy and it presently resides in a secret government vault next to the Ark of the Covenant.       

[No_MSG]

How about a productive discussion?

What is the WORST ending the Bioware could create for Mass Effect (The current endings don't count, no one say it.)

For me, the worst ending would be a super mega happy ending. One where everyone with a name survives, even those who died. Where everything after the fact is gumdrops and lolly pops.

What do you guys think?

[Mavaras]

seitani wrote...

I didn't "bought" anything but picking her every post apart and overanalyzing every word is ****ing stupid.

Nothing about what I wrote is stupid. If you think so, please explain to me why. If not, we are at an impasse. Being civil goes both ways. We need to be civil to each other and Bioware, and they need to be civil to us. What she wrote was not civil.

Modifié par Mavaras, 22 mars 2012 - 01:46 .

[rfrombrazil]

Enichan wrote...

You know what I dislike about the whole paranoid rethoric that's been a little too heavy up in here the last day or two? That you can't argue with it. If Bioware's people argue with it it's just a PR ploy. If we argue with it we're just saps who are falling for the ploy. So what, you guys are just right by virtue of always being right?

And for the record, being cold while not directly insulting is not being civil. I'm sure I'll be labelled an idiot for "falling for the ruse" and "sowing dissent in the ranks", but whatever. If anyone wants me, I'll be over in the Child's Play thread.

Actually, not. I've seen a record low amount of bickering among ourselves, even when trolls drop by. Maybe what you feel about being cold but still insulting is people answering to whom they think are trolls, or maybe the trolls themselves. Its kind of hard to identify them all. Maybe something rubbed you the wrong way.

If you have a problem with a post, ask for clarification, because I'm sure most people would answer to it without much delay. 

And, no, you're not an idiot. An idiot would not make points that elicit answers. 

[cyrrant]

Janus382 wrote...

 Relax.  Ms. Merizan is no longer engaging us in in-depth BW discussion because she doesn't like having her words be over-analyzed and misconstrued, which is understandable.  So... stop over-analyzing and misconstruing her explanation for no longer engaging us in in-depth BW discussion.  There is little (or no) gain, and a lot to lose, obviously,  as she isn't responsible for any content changes or clarification coming our way in the future.  So just chill and let it go.

Feel free to analyze words from Casey Hudson, Mac Walters, or Dr. Muzyka, since they are responsible for content in some way, shape, or form, but ease up a bit on the speculation.  We know they're planning to do something, but we don't know what yet, and we won't know until sometime in April.  We need to relax (a little) and bring the tone back to what it was just yesterday, or risk being crushed by the weight of our own impatience.

Stay calm, stay civil, Hold The Line.

While I agree about over-analyzing Jessica's posts, I'm not sure that just sitting back and waiting until April to see what they want to give us is the best idea.  Remember, they wanted to give us R, G, B + Starchild.  We need to be telling them that we'll only be satisfied if the ending reflects just how excellent the earlier 99% of the game is.  Resting on our laurels will only result in more issues.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

EDIT: After I reread this, I felt a little uneasy.  All of this is my opinion, and relaxing a little isn't a terrible idea.  I think I just invalidated my whole post, but there you have it.

Modifié par cyrrant, 22 mars 2012 - 01:48 .

[RagingCeltik]

The more people keep bringing up Ms. Merizan's comments, the more people are getting divisive over the content and context of her posts and related responses to it. With all due respect to Jessica as I respect her opinion and role, but this whole thing is getting us off topic on what we should be talking about. She's become a distraction that got this forum off task. Though that's not to say she not welcome, just that this is unfortunately what happened.

Let start focusing on the positive, people, and stop picking apart statements. 'Cause that is what is happening. We've got statements picking apart statements that pick apart statements.  And then people pick apart *those* statments.  It's become a vicious circle today.  

Modifié par RagingCeltik, 22 mars 2012 - 01:47 .