9972 réponses à ce sujet

[soundhole]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

OK a few things.

I've calmed down, eaten a significant amount of candy, and talked with people about puppies and dinosaurs....

OHWOW hai!  Yeah, I was thinking, like, what if an Asari had a pet dinosaur?  It would be cute, cuz they have scales and stuff just like the dinosaurs.  I was thinking about that and then my puppy ate tons of candy and...

 Jessica Merizan wrote...

Please don't quote or discuss this, as it will just further keep things off track.

Ok, but I just wanna say...

 Jessica Merizan wrote...

IGNORE ME

 Puppies....

[Erszebeth]

Ray's statement is incredibly vague, promising nothing. Waiting until april ? I don't think our imput will change what they had planed as dlc.

[RobinEJ]

Now we have a promise from Ray Muzyka, but still we have to hold the line untill we really get better endings.

[DevilHakoten]

I really hope they go about this in the right way. I was so looking forward to ME3, and having an epic experience. But all I got was a heaping pile of let down for $80.

My specific reasons are pretty much like everyone else's, and I'm tired but I found the game way too short. It was just getting good and then the ending happened. I would've loved to fight Illusive Man with a giant cannon arm. "Too video gamey" in a video game? Oh jeez. I thought I was watching Twilight.

My second biggest worry right now is having to pay for a real ending. I -will not- be buying what should've already been there. My biggest worry is if they do something, but we have to pay -and- it's half-assed.

If this isn't handled well this will be my last purchase from Bioware -and- EA.

Modifié par DevilHakoten, 22 mars 2012 - 09:23 .

[ReavousX]

Erszebeth wrote...

Ray's statement is incredibly vague, promising nothing. Waiting until april ? I don't think our imput will change what they had planed as dlc.

I think you're wrong, they're not going to release a map pack or some side quest DLC if they believe it's going to tank thanks to the ending controversy.  

And if they think that tweaking the current endings to have investigative options is enough to stop this, I may close the book on Bioware and my relationship with them as a consumer.

[DrFrankenseuss]

It means they want polite input from the community about what we're confused about, or why we feel there is a lack of resolution in the ending, so that the dev team can produce something that deals with those issue. I know Ray is an MD and must be a smart fellow, but this isn't rocket surgery folks xD

[blurryhunter]

Icycle1933 wrote...

They may have said an announcement in April would happen, but who's to say it wouldn't happen in late April and be incredibly vague? I just hope that I'm wrong in my assumption.

As I mentioned earlier, the ball is in BioWare's court. There isn't much we can do aside from making sure we don't walk off the field just because they made a statement.

The worst thing we can do is 'what if' our way into paranoia. Just sit back and wait for the next bit of news. If you see a need to voice your opinion, state the reason for your stance, cite any resources you have, and leave it at that. Keep it simple, civil, and concise.

I know that some people thing pressing the issue will garner better attention, but this needs to be a give and take. We gave them, and press, a reason to take our concerns seriously (in the face of a whole lot of stereotypical negativity from many sources at first), they issued several statements addressing it in one way, shape, or form, and now we take this time to sit back, reaffirm our stance, quell any doubts, and ensure that people know it isn't going away if someone simply stops 'feeding the bears.'

This is a problem. Even if it wasn't ME3. This comes down to bigger issues then just that, at this point. It's just gotten so much attention, because it is ME3. That is a good thing. Just because a game has been expected with baited breath, doesn't mean a player base is going to stand there and let a developer talk without backing it up.

Keep in mind that this 'at it's base' problem, developer says one thing, does another, isn't new. However, there is a time when people have to draw a line and say enough is enough. This is that moment, if not for us, as individuals, but for the industry.

I realize that people are in this because they love Mass Effect 3 and because they were upset and dishearted by the ending, especially in the face of comments that our endings would reflect all the choice and care we put into crafting our experience from the beginning of the series, but understand that this very stand we take now is going to, for better or worse (and I lean towards better), will impact the industry as a whole. All the press about being for, against, or analyzing it to death speak that more than any words I could put here.

Never faulter. I did my homework. I analyzed both sides and read every article I could get my hands on before making a decision, even having my own dislike for the way ME3 ended. Your cause is right. I wouldn't stand behind it for any reason less.

[Comsky159]

Very enlightening. I find the conclusion to this series absolutely appalling as it stands, but can't deny the intrigue of the situation it birthed.

So I guess I'm in a state of transience between an invested anxiety and abstract interest.

[superduperkoala]

Does anyone have any insight regarding the sales of Mass Effect 3? All the refund talk and price cut actually come as a surprise to me. More importantly, in Dr. Muzyka's blog he mention that we should "play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole". It seems like a cry for help to me and I wonder if they are really in trouble right now.

If so, this whole mess is a bit of a tragedy. To be fair, ME3 is probably the best western RPG I have ever played (minus the ending of course).

[blurryhunter]

DevilHakoten wrote...

I really hope they go about this in the right way. I was so looking forward to ME3, and having an epic experience. But all I got was a heaping pile of let down for $80.

My specific reasons are pretty much like everyone else's, and I'm tired but I found the game way too short. It was just getting good and then the ending happened. I would've loved to fight Illusive Man with a giant cannon arm. "Too video gamey" in a video game? Oh jeez. I thought I was watching Twilight.

My second biggest worry right now is having to pay for a real ending. I -will not- be buying what should've already been there. My biggest worry is if they do something, but we have to pay -and- it's half-assed.

If this isn't handled well this will be my last purchase from Bioware -and- EA.

Wanted to make a quick second post to address this a little. If it makes anyone feel better, when this DLC, whatever it is (especially if it addresses where we're hoping it does), I will do my utmost to get my hands on it and see how they did. It's the only way to know for sure, someone has to buy it, and I'm willing to take that punch, so to speak, so people can know if it's on the up and up.

Might need to remind me when the time comes that I made this statement, because who knows what I'll be doing when it finally rolls around, but rest assured, call me out on this, and I'll make good on it. I have an obligation to stick to my obligations. 

[-PG-Skyre]

Ok, key questions people need to ask-
Is Bioware a "for profit" organisation?
Is Bioware facing complaints over something they "create" and sell?
Is Bioware taking the money WE earned?

The answer to all these is "Yes".

First; As a for profit organisation, they have to look after their income and therefor are expected to bend to consumer demand...every company does it.

Second; If an organisation sells something which they have advertised about and made promises for, but does not meet the requirements they themselves set, it is the consumers right to either get this corrected or to get their money back (like returning something that didn't work when you purchased it).

Finally, they are taking OUR money for this. Who says they work harder than us? I work 40hrs at an abattoir (google it), plus study for 2 degrees (both in the IT field). I'm one of many. People have the right to complain about my work, especially customers, so what makes game developers so different than anyone else?


Side note- The "art" excuse is redundant and flawed. Art for the sake or art, can not be changed or complained about. "Art" that is made for profit, and for a consumer who has expectations which the artist themselves set, can be changed because it is more a product than art.

If I'm wrong, then from now on, I claim all my programming assignments are "art" and my teacher has to give me top marks for it. And anyone complaining about me not working at work, I'm an artist, don't rush me.

(Copied this post, which is mine, from another thread).

[Phoenix NL]

Good lord, I just made the mistake of reading some of the comments from people at the bottom of one of the articles. I knew that there were people against changing the ending (that is completely their right) but I didn't realize the level of venom that is being aimed in our direction. I have been nothing but polite, courteous and at least tried to be thoughtful in the way that I have presented my opinion and reasons for disliking the ending. It's sad to see such a level of intolerance and anger from others who are not even taking the time to consider what our points are, just rushing in headlong with abuse.

*sigh*

sometimes I lose faith in people. The only thing I can say is I haven't treated anyone out there with disrespect or not respected that their opinion may differ from mine - can people please at least attempt to return that courtesy? I'm not a bad human being, I don't kick puppies in my spare time so please take the time to read up before using your poisoned pen.

[seitani]

superduperkoala wrote...

Does anyone have any insight regarding the sales of Mass Effect 3? All the refund talk and price cut actually come as a surprise to me. More importantly, in Dr. Muzyka's blog he mention that we should "play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole". It seems like a cry for help to me and I wonder if they are really in trouble right now.

If so, this whole mess is a bit of a tragedy. To be fair, ME3 is probably the best western RPG I have ever played (minus the ending of course).

I second that Mass Effect 3 was phenomenal game before the endigns. That is what makes me kind of even more angry how they dropped the ball so bad at the end.

[Damien Shepherd]

Phoenix NL wrote...

I don't think it's fair that they're only giving the game 1 star - personally I think the game taken as a whole was amazing, by far the best out of the 3 because you see the consequences of previous decisions. It was just seriously let down by the ending. The 1 star isn't fair and I don't think it's going to help us in the long run.

Then you've just contradicted yourself because "the game taken as a whole" means taking into account the ending as well and with an ending this bad, I don't know about you but it destroyed any drive I had to replay not only ME3 but also the previous 2 installments which had previously been 2 of my most favorite games.

The closest analogy I can think of is If ME3 was a slice of stuffcrust pizza and it was some of the best pizza you ever had then you bite into the stuffcrust and instead of what you expected you find it's filled with anchovies. But hey you loved the main part of the slice right? How would you rate it?

I stand by my one star ratings at amazon and metacritic and I will amend them later if the endings are fixed.

[-PG-Skyre]

Phoenix NL wrote...

Good lord, I just made the mistake of reading some of the comments from people at the bottom of one of the articles. I knew that there were people against changing the ending (that is completely their right) but I didn't realize the level of venom that is being aimed in our direction. I have been nothing but polite, courteous and at least tried to be thoughtful in the way that I have presented my opinion and reasons for disliking the ending. It's sad to see such a level of intolerance and anger from others who are not even taking the time to consider what our points are, just rushing in headlong with abuse.

*sigh*

sometimes I lose faith in people. The only thing I can say is I haven't treated anyone out there with disrespect or not respected that their opinion may differ from mine - can people please at least attempt to return that courtesy? I'm not a bad human being, I don't kick puppies in my spare time so please take the time to read up before using your poisoned pen.

"Fanbois", payed-for reviewers (C'mon, its IGN, one of their staff members is IN ME3), of course the flak will be turned our way. We have no major gaming media support and are being made out as the bad guys.

Still, does make one lose faith in humanity when we mostly want to talk constructively over this subject, but so many seem to feel that logic and discussion isn't required...not when you can just abuse and insult the people involved instead.

[wolfeye7]

So, I read Ray's message yesterday but I really needed to sleep on it before making any kind of response.

So long story short: sure, it's a victory that we managed to get a response, yet his response was vague and, correct me if I'm wrong, in no way actually covered the REAL issues we had with the ending (1. the plot holes 2. our choices not mattering and 3. there really being only ONE ending).

Maybe I'm just too cynical a person, but this promise of clarity and closure could be anything. If they just make DLC that adds pre-ending stuff or something that tries to explain away the plot holes then I don't think it will be worth purchasing.

I could be wrong and hope I am. I hope the message was just poorly worded and they are truly going to make something everyone can happy with...BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULDN'T DONATE

[blurryhunter]

superduperkoala wrote...

Does anyone have any insight regarding the sales of Mass Effect 3? All the refund talk and price cut actually come as a surprise to me. More importantly, in Dr. Muzyka's blog he mention that we should "play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole". It seems like a cry for help to me and I wonder if they are really in trouble right now.

If so, this whole mess is a bit of a tragedy. To be fair, ME3 is probably the best western RPG I have ever played (minus the ending of course).

That's the amazing thing about this game. I have, literally, three issues with the game as a whole. Tali's picture, the Journal: Mission tab, and the endings.

Tali's Picture - I'm not at all disappointed in what they tried to do. The idea of a gifted picture was nice. Scene played out well too. Would like to see something in game to at least complete the set up, even briefly, but the biggest issue is just that I think it should have reflected more time spent crafting it, making sure it really went into the game better than how it is now. I don't disagree about a photo alteration. I disagree that they didn't take the time to at the least make it a unique photo for the situation.

The Journal: Mission Tab - I got completely lost a couple times trying to figure out what system was where and how far along I was in something. Didn't take long to figure out, but it seems like a step backwards from ME2's Journal and it's periodic entry towards points of completion in a mission (or better directions).

The Endings - I don't really need to go into depth. We're all here for that very reason, really. I can't explain how I felt. I just stared at the screen and wasn't sure if I'd actually screwed something up or missed something. I came online thinking perhaps it had something to do with a New Game+, found this, and started researching the situation to make sure I had the facts right. I got my facts and I side with all of you.

The part that has me disappointed is that for the whole game my only issues involved text entries and a picture that, until discovering the photo it was derived from, didn't bother me (thought the hand always looked off though). The ending was what really tossed the rock into the glass house. All that work, all that attention, and then nothing.

To point out my situation exact, I played through Mass Effect 1 a single time. I chose to live with my consequences going into Mass Effect 2 because I knew I'd made my choice, and for once in my gaming life I wasn't going to go back through and try to 'perfect' it. Ashley died on mine, because at the time, I honestly had no clue someone was going to die. Imagine my surprise. Sort of left me with one romance choice after that though. Kind of a shoe horn.

I had to play through Mass Effect 2 again because I thought I lost my save and it wasn't until I was about 2/3rds through it and had the DLC set up to go that I remembered the 'Swap Characters' button in the Load data screen.

Mass Effect 3 was damn near everything, and the closest I can ever come to saying this, I ever expected in a game; until the end.

Modifié par blurryhunter, 22 mars 2012 - 09:55 .

[superduperkoala]

Phoenix NL wrote...

Good lord, I just made the mistake of reading some of the comments from people at the bottom of one of the articles. I knew that there were people against changing the ending (that is completely their right) but I didn't realize the level of venom that is being aimed in our direction. I have been nothing but polite, courteous and at least tried to be thoughtful in the way that I have presented my opinion and reasons for disliking the ending. It's sad to see such a level of intolerance and anger from others who are not even taking the time to consider what our points are, just rushing in headlong with abuse.

*sigh*

sometimes I lose faith in people. The only thing I can say is I haven't treated anyone out there with disrespect or not respected that their opinion may differ from mine - can people please at least attempt to return that courtesy? I'm not a bad human being, I don't kick puppies in my spare time so please take the time to read up before using your poisoned pen.

I was quite upset myself when I read those comments, especially the vocal minority theory.
I wonder what when wrong, when the general public thinks we are the whining babies instead of cheated customers.

[hyperforce99]

I honestly wouldn't mind paying 10 or even 20 bucks if they made a big large Fullfilling and truely Mass Effect ending.
If it makes sense, if my choices throughout the game mattered, if we have many different endings. Then I will pay money for it.

I understand that crunch time on games development can cost a lot. Time is limited and so is money. Bioware took a gamble changing the ending when it leaked several months ago. And truly, a few months is not a lot of time to completely redesign an ending. You will have to cut corners.
Concepts and designs are always more grand than their eventual implementation.

The only reason we have come to expect so much is because Bioware has done it before.
Dragon age 1 was a great example of a diverse ending with many different outcomes.

Perhaps as DLC mass effect 3 can still have this fulfilling ending after all. It will cost less to market and distribute. And the cost / production balance is much more favorable. than a 60 dollar boxed release.

It will all come down to how much is Bioware willing to compromise on the original ending.
How much are they willing to spend in money and time. and above all else, how much are we the fans expecting compared to what we will eventually receive?

I know my expectations for a Dragon Age 1 style ending are extremely high. But will I pay for it if and when & IF they do deliver ? Absolutely!

[cApAc aMaRu]

-PG-Skyre wrote...

Ok, key questions people need to ask-
Is Bioware a "for profit" organisation?
Is Bioware facing complaints over something they "create" and sell?
Is Bioware taking the money WE earned?

The answer to all these is "Yes".

First; As a for profit organisation, they have to look after their income and therefor are expected to bend to consumer demand...every company does it.

Second; If an organisation sells something which they have advertised about and made promises for, but does not meet the requirements they themselves set, it is the consumers right to either get this corrected or to get their money back (like returning something that didn't work when you purchased it).

Finally, they are taking OUR money for this. Who says they work harder than us? I work 40hrs at an abattoir (google it), plus study for 2 degrees (both in the IT field). I'm one of many. People have the right to complain about my work, especially customers, so what makes game developers so different than anyone else?


Side note- The "art" excuse is redundant and flawed. Art for the sake or art, can not be changed or complained about. "Art" that is made for profit, and for a consumer who has expectations which the artist themselves set, can be changed because it is more a product than art.

If I'm wrong, then from now on, I claim all my programming assignments are "art" and my teacher has to give me top marks for it. And anyone complaining about me not working at work, I'm an artist, don't rush me.

(Copied this post, which is mine, from another thread).

It can be argued that the path we choose for our individual Shepard's is art. Our art. And by removing choices for us to make, Bioware is dictating to us how we go about creating our own art. Think of Mass Effect as being the paints with which we compose our own pictures of Shepard.

Bioware falsely advertised the toolset they sold us to guide the path of Shepard.

It isn't a question of Bioware's artistic integrity, its a question of "how much respect do EA and Bioware have for our player experience".

The player experience they sold us, over three games, was one of choice. Removing choice from the ultimate moment of truth from a franchise many of us have spent hundreds of dollars on is appalling. It is a disgrace.

They may as well just say "Guys, you've been in control through this, now you're at the climax, you're too dumb to make the right choice, so we'll do it for you.

[LilyasAvalon]

Icycle1933 wrote...

They may have said an announcement in April would happen, but who's to say it wouldn't happen in late April and be incredibly vague? I just hope that I'm wrong in my assumption.

PAX is 11th of April, it'd be suicide if Bioware doesn't mention SOMETHING then.

[cApAc aMaRu]

blurryhunter wrote...

superduperkoala wrote...

Tali's Picture - I'm not at all disappointed in what they tried to do. The idea of a gifted picture was nice. Scene played out well too. Would like to see something in game to at least complete the set up, even briefly, but the biggest issue is just that I think it should have reflected more time spent crafting it, making sure it really went into the game better than how it is now. I don't disagree about a photo alteration. I disagree that they didn't take the time to at the least make it a unique photo for the situation.

Tali's face is like Spartan 117 in Halo. We've been told for years that the developers have known all along what they look like under the helmet, that if they did reveal it it would be important and powerful.

Better photoshop a stock photo.

And who would have thought that in Mass Effect, a game with interesting and unique alien races, Quarians would be the most Star Trek type human-like aliens possible. 

[blurryhunter]

superduperkoala wrote...

Phoenix NL wrote...

Good lord, I just made the mistake of reading some of the comments from people at the bottom of one of the articles. I knew that there were people against changing the ending (that is completely their right) but I didn't realize the level of venom that is being aimed in our direction. I have been nothing but polite, courteous and at least tried to be thoughtful in the way that I have presented my opinion and reasons for disliking the ending. It's sad to see such a level of intolerance and anger from others who are not even taking the time to consider what our points are, just rushing in headlong with abuse.

*sigh*

sometimes I lose faith in people. The only thing I can say is I haven't treated anyone out there with disrespect or not respected that their opinion may differ from mine - can people please at least attempt to return that courtesy? I'm not a bad human being, I don't kick puppies in my spare time so please take the time to read up before using your poisoned pen.

I was quite upset myself when I read those comments, especially the vocal minority theory.
I wonder what when wrong, when the general public thinks we are the whining babies instead of cheated customers.

You did nothing wrong. Being polite, addressing your concern, and citing your sources are all the way to go about this. The problem isn't what anyone did, but the stereotype leveled at video game consumers when they have a complaint.

I'll tell you I was shocked to see this many people in one thread that hadn't dissolved into verbal fist fights, calling out the developer with ridiculous claims, and using actual attempts at spelling and keeping civil (if a bit upset some times). I was surprised it wasn't locked, really.

You have two choices, really, when going into an discussion like this. You break the stereotype, even if it's just for your own piece of mind, or you don't. I'm glad to see people have taken the option less traveled.

[superduperkoala]

blurryhunter wrote...

Tali's Picture - I'm not at all disappointed in what they tried to do. The idea of a gifted picture was nice. Scene played out well too. Would like to see something in game to at least complete the set up, even briefly, but the biggest issue is just that I think it should have reflected more time spent crafting it, making sure it really went into the game better than how it is now. I don't disagree about a photo alteration. I disagree that they didn't take the time to at the least make it a unique photo for the situation.

I don't have the heart to tell my friend that "the effort" BioWare had put into Tali's photo. He seems to love it.

I think there are lots "less is more" moments in ME3. If BioWare didn't add Tali's photo, not many of us would complain since somtimes mystery is a good thing. More important, if they have cut out the SpaceChild nonsense from the ending and just cut to the energy wave expanding from the Citadel after Anderson dies, I would be a much more enjoyable experience. 

Oh, I nearly forgot, cut out Joker landing in planet Eden would be a great! Honestly, who want to see your friend smile right after you were killed in a fiery explosion.

[blurryhunter]

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

blurryhunter wrote...

superduperkoala wrote...

Tali's Picture - I'm not at all disappointed in what they tried to do. The idea of a gifted picture was nice. Scene played out well too. Would like to see something in game to at least complete the set up, even briefly, but the biggest issue is just that I think it should have reflected more time spent crafting it, making sure it really went into the game better than how it is now. I don't disagree about a photo alteration. I disagree that they didn't take the time to at the least make it a unique photo for the situation.

Tali's face is like Spartan 117 in Halo. We've been told for years that the developers have known all along what they look like under the helmet, that if they did reveal it it would be important and powerful.

Better photoshop a stock photo.

And who would have thought that in Mass Effect, a game with interesting and unique alien races, Quarians would be the most Star Trek type human-like aliens possible. 

I can understand how some people didn't see them coming from that angle. On my end, about the only part that took me aback from it was hair. Can't say I saw that coming...