9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Fulgrim88]

Souris wrote...

Madam ;D

Pardon me.
It's sometimes hard to remember that many people with a male avatar around here are in fact female, and vice versa

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 22 mars 2012 - 12:47 .

[blurryhunter]

Lil One wrote...

I find it quite sad when people refuse to even try to see the other side, or fail to accept that someone else feel any different, resorting to slurs and whatnot. Regardless of which "side" they are on. "Side", because I feel we all thoroughly enjoyed the game (or at least enjoyed).

Bolded the point I wanted to touch up on.

I have not, nor have I seen anyone, have anything really negative to say about Mass Effect 3 up until the final moments; that last 10-15 minutes as some would put it. If there is any one thing we can all agree on, liking the finale or not, it is that Mass Effect 3 was nothing short of impressive up until the conclusion that has so many of us split and 'taking sides' as it were.

It is a sad business to have to choose between liking and disliking the back half of an otherwise amazing game, but as far as I see it, someone has to take a stand when they fill wronged. That someone happens to be multiple people, from multiple locations, and all united under at least one agreeable banner of support; BioWare did not deliver in their statements about the conclusion to Mass Effect 3.

Anyone that says we, or at the least I, hate Mass Effect 3 needs to take a step back and come into this with a more analytical eye. At no point in time have many ever said we hated Mass Effect 3. We simply feel that there was a severe injustice done to us as customers, as fans, as players, to the Mass Effect series, and for some, including myself, BioWare itself.

[Delpinolikespotatoes]

Just here to drop some humor. I don't know if you usually read VGcats but if not you should because it's a great comic about videogames. The writter has always been very passionate about ME and he made a strip about the endings... Worth checking it out:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/

[Midarc2nd]

Souris wrote...

I enjoyed the endings. Did I think they were perfect? No. But I enjoyed them. However, I am absolutely TERRIFIED to post my opinion on these forums because it gets ripped apart,

Well, I'd expect you to get a friendlier, to be honest.
Generally people seem to be of the opinion that if you like the endings, then all is well.
It doesn't invalidate our point in the slightest.
Of course, they won't agree with you that the endings are good, but that isn't an attack against you in the slightest.
At least, it shouldn't be intended as such nor interpreted as such.
Infact, it's kinda cool to know some folk got and ending that fit with their story.
Happy for you, in that regard.

hehe.
saw that vgcats last night.
danged funny

Modifié par Midarc2nd, 22 mars 2012 - 12:52 .

[DiegoProgMetal]

People complain about the "godchild" and such. But MY problem began when I killed Kai Leng, and the Prothean VI told me the Citadel has been moved to Sol... What happened to the people that were there? Did "Marauder Shields" got there and said: "Ok people, we need you to move out in an orderly fashion, because we are moving this place."?

Modifié par DiegoProgMetal, 22 mars 2012 - 12:53 .

[OnlyHazeRemains]

Hey everyone.
Just wanted to vent some opinions not regarding the inevitable redundancy.

I am still not able to wrap my head around the fact that Bioware Intentionally wanted to give us this BS for an ending. The indoctrination theory, all the little details down to hinting twitter posts are just too convenient to not be deliberately planned by BW.
The panical damage control attempts we are observing are the response to a seemingly genius PR-Stunt that went horribly, horribly wrong.
And if thats not the case, if theyre still deliberatly playing this ruse, i dont know if i even want to see that ending anymore between my shunted imagination and all the broken promises.
I'd say they simply went too far...

[blurryhunter]

Delpinolikespotatoes wrote...

Just here to drop some humor. I don't know if you usually read VGcats but if not you should because it's a great comic about videogames. The writter has always been very passionate about ME and he made a strip about the endings... Worth checking it out:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/

Hilarious, if for no other reason then how they presented it. No need to read into something overly to enjoy humor.

Here's another good one for laughs.

http://www.vgcats.co...s/?strip_id=309 

The collector part is the best, and I didn't even finish reading it.

Modifié par blurryhunter, 22 mars 2012 - 01:06 .

[blurryhunter]

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

People complain about the "godchild" and such. But MY problem began when I killed Kai Leng, and the Prothean VI told me the Citadel has been moved to Sol... What happened to the people that were there? Did "Marauder Shields" got there and said: "Ok people, we need you to move out in an orderly fashion, because we are moving this place."?

Sort of goes back to the concept of how you don't ever want your player base (or viewer, or reader) to end up having to make up reasons to make things make sense, basically the whole ending, but that aside...

I got the implication that, beings as the Reapers are, well, reaping, that everyone on board were killed. It did, however, cross my mind that the immediate lost of all communication with the Citadel, not to mention the Council itself, would strike absolutely no one as odd, what with having contact with them through the quantum comm system.

That reminds me. Damnit, Bailey went too. Well. I'll call it here then, go drink one for Bailey, and hit the rack. Only person I've never met (what with being virtual and all) with the balls to hate a promotion on the simple grounds that he thought he'd be doing more to help. Damn you hindsight...

Night guys and girls.

[Utopianus]

blurryhunter wrote...

Delpinolikespotatoes wrote...

Just here to drop some humor. I don't know if you usually read VGcats but if not you should because it's a great comic about videogames. The writter has always been very passionate about ME and he made a strip about the endings... Worth checking it out:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/

Hilarious, if for no other reason then how they presented it. No need to read into something overly to enjoy humor.

Here's another good one for laughs.

http://www.vgcats.co...s/?strip_id=309 

The collector part is the best, and I didn't even finish reading it.

Dawwwww that female Collector was so adorable 

[Tregon]

Are you sure it was a female?

[Phoenix NL]

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

People complain about the "godchild" and such. But MY problem began when I killed Kai Leng, and the Prothean VI told me the Citadel has been moved to Sol... What happened to the people that were there? Did "Marauder Shields" got there and said: "Ok people, we need you to move out in an orderly fashion, because we are moving this place."?

Never underestimate the power of Marauder Shields!

[Midarc2nd]

"assuming direct control"

Heh, I've been enjoying the critical miss ones.

[Utopianus]

Tregon wrote...

Are you sure it was a female?

Well it has what seems to be mammary glands...and it was blushing so cutely!! I mean there must've been female protheans right? 

[vometia]

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

People complain about the "godchild" and such. But MY problem began when I killed Kai Leng, and the Prothean VI told me the Citadel has been moved to Sol... What happened to the people that were there? Did "Marauder Shields" got there and said: "Ok people, we need you to move out in an orderly fashion, because we are moving this place."?

I don't know if it was just a gaffe, but there seemed to be a lot of fairly normal-looking activity going on in the background in the TIM scene, so I'm guessing most inhabitants were still alive at that point.  I guess "we'll process you later" was the general rationale: no point in having lots of bodies lying around going off.  Ew.

[Fulgrim88]

blurryhunter wrote...

Delpinolikespotatoes wrote...

Just here to drop some humor. I don't know if you usually read VGcats but if not you should because it's a great comic about videogames. The writter has always been very passionate about ME and he made a strip about the endings... Worth checking it out:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/

Hilarious, if for no other reason then how they presented it. No need to read into something overly to enjoy humor.

Here's another good one for laughs.

http://www.vgcats.co...s/?strip_id=309 

The collector part is the best, and I didn't even finish reading it.

Shepard.
Wrex.


Cracked me up

[Cybermortis]

Some comments/observations;

If we didn't like ME3 we wouldn't be asking them to change the ending, we'd have chalked Bioware's name on the 'avoid' list and walked away. That we are willing to spend the time and energy to try and make them change the ending is a sign that the rest of the game (and series) was more than good enough to 'win us over'. Sure, its not 100% perfect even before the end, it has its bugs for one thing. But then no game is 100% perfect, and no matter how much time is put into a game you will always end up with some bugs - and at least this time none of the bugs prevents you from finishing the game...although some people who have finished the game might wish otherwise.

Speaking for myself, and I suspect the majority of those who want a better ending. If people liked the current ending then I'm happy for them. Seriously.
What we have problems with is the attitude of some of those people who try to defend the endings in illogical ways. We've been accused of trying to 'force' them to have a different ending...even though we've tried to point out that since any ending would be a DLC it would be entirely optional - and therefore they would not be required to use it. And of course that argument falls flat because they are trying to force us to stick with an ending the majority isn't happy with. Hell, 50% of the 'ending is fine/retake is wrong' arguments I've seen are totally illogical, and the other 50% accuse us of things that ironically only the 'ending is fine/retake is wrong' is doing.

But again, if you like the ending and are quite happy with it I have no problems what-so-ever. I'm not forcing or talking about forcing you to download and play any new ending that may or may not come out.


The core issue, however, is really about consumer rights and broken promises. Bioware made a whole heap of promises about what the ending would be like and what it would and would not contain. Remember the line that went 'there will be no A,B or C endings?'...presumably they think that a 'Red, Green or Blue' ending is somehow different.

The part about promises is either overlooked because people are focusing purely on the game itself and not the larger issues. Or it is being pushed to one side because if people start to think about it, it becomes clear that regardless of if they liked the ending or not that Bioware's advertising made false and/or misleading claims...and that is illegal in all of the countries in which the game has been sold. (Bare in mind that Amazon is allowing full refunds on the game specifically because it was falsely advertised)

Bioware, for their part, should take heart from two things. First that their customers enjoyed the game to the point that they have been motivated to try and do something about a fall in standards. Second that those same customers have been willing to not only give Bioware a chance to 'fix' their mistake but are of the opinion that they have the ability to do so.

If Bioware forgets or misses those two points and either does nothing, or worse gives us some half-assed slide-show at the end. Then their betrayal of their customers will be complete, and as a viable company they will have committed suicide. As a very significant proportion of their customer base will just walk away and find products from other companies, and 'new' customers will be put off by Bioware's reputation for treating customers as walking wallets.

Bioware, if you are reading this it is time to man up*, admit you made more than a few serious errors here - even if that it only to yourselves behind closed doors and in a whisper - and provide something of good quality for those who are rapidly loosing confidence in you. Stop trying to hide behind the PR talk and spin, thus far all it has done is make things worse for you, and do something positive. Time is running out.

(*'Womaning up' is also perfectly acceptable, although it might raise a few eyebrows if you have a beard and a voice like James Earl Jones)

Modifié par Cybermortis, 22 mars 2012 - 01:49 .

[cApAc aMaRu]

MeldarthX wrote...

Chmar posted this in the other sub - so we can't get the ending we want.
OMG - I am litereally speechless.


dear bioware

i am a 37 year old network engineer and i am also an avid gamer, i have bought games on developer promises and good previews.

i have gotten all of the other bioware rpg-type games such as the dragon age series and all of the downloadable content, and also the other mass effect 1 and mass effect 2 games along with all of the other DLC (some how 2 of the other dlc has NOT turned up on my account for mass effect 2).

i pre-ordered the collectors edtion of mass effect 3 because of 3 reasons which are listed here

1)- i have the other 2 games and dlc with them

2)- it is the final of the series (which has now been debunked due to patent and copyright registrations under the bioware / electronic arts name)

3)- the biggest reason by far on why i pre-ordered the game was based on the promises made by bioware staff in interviews guaranteeing things.

"As Mass Effect 3 is the end of the planned trilogy, the developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge, yet also continue into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges into wildly
different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters."
--Casey Hudson

"We wouldn't do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can't say any more than that..."
--Mike Gamble

"Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending. Bioware will not do a 'Lost' and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game."
--Mike Gamble

"Pretty much everything that people want to see wrapped up, or to be given answers, will be."
--Dr. Ray Muzyka

"I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people."
--Mike Gamble

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”
--Casey Hudson

"[The presence of the rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."
--Mac Walters

"You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people."
--Casey Hudson

"Of course you don’t have to play
multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in
single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and
same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing."
--Casey Hudson

"Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”
--Caseuy Hudson

these were printed in everything from newspapers, gaming magazines even in live interviews these promises were made.

it is these that we purchased mass effect.

i have also been lucky enough to work part time at CVG in the uk who got a preview version of mass effect 3 and due to an NDA i could not discuss what i had played and what i had seen.

i would want an answer to this, why was the prothean removed from the game and made into day-one DLC when the edtion we recived had it already part of the full version preview game on xbox360.

why was there a 3rd disc for the xbox version which was inacessable without a developer xbox360 console, once installed the disc used 7.4gig of space, that is 7.4 = disc 1, 7.0 gig = disc 2 and the 3rd was 7.4 = gig thats a total of 20.8 gig.

why was there weapons that were only avalible on pc and ps3 in the xbox360 version.

why was a lot of dialog's and cut scenes cut from the retail version and the biggest of all, why is there a lot of side missions removed, some of these side missions were really intresting, such as the asarii and human female who were having an affair, a side mission to either expose them to the human females husband and the assari's life partner, convincing the vol whos talking about sanctuary where you can convince them to go there or to avoid it.

and the one side mission that had me laughing was an interactive game of poker with james in dock with the refugee's, the dialog was funny and a breath of freshair, the other side mission was with the 2 c-sec guards outside purgatory.

the extended dialog narratives at the start, the extended council dialogs in the citidel, the extended dialog with anderson at the end was tear jerking and would have been pivotal.

so many cut-scenes and the extended battle scene when the "retake the earth" battle was movie grade kick ass, how often do you see a heavy damaged sword ship ramming a reaper while shooting its cannons then cut to inside where the camera pans round to show primark victus standing proud and injured shouting "if were going down, were taking these bastards with us" then it cuts to the outside where his ship impacts the reaper and explodes taking the reaper with it.

the normandy doing manuvers that is just pure unadultirated awesomness, joker going hell for leather, garrus in the cockpit on the weapons seat shooting the upgraded thanx cannons, the normandy taking a direct hit from the flying orbs and shakes it off due to the heavy upgraded kinetic shielding (which was exposed by talking to engineer adams),
tali literly ripping parts out of the walls to shut off plasma leaks.
liara using her shadow broker database to hack some of the orbs to fight for them.

the geth fleet taking a pounding and a geth prime standing n the bridge of a dreadnought screaming "FOR LEGION".

the extended battle scene should have been kept in as it would have made the endings have some meaning, also where did the 3rd option come in, the version CVG recived in january 2012 dident even have that option, even with maxed out war readyness, and when did multiplayer play be required to increase the war readyness, i know its a preview version but a single line of coding changed that in retail which i found was bizar and un-needed.

bioware if you removed the content which i have seen from the full game ONLY to sell it at a later date then this is by far the WORST EVER PR STUNT for DLC ever thought of.

not a single game company would remove and entire section of a NECESSARY INTEGRAL part of the game to sell later on.

thats like cutting the last 60 minutes of terminator 2 then telling people "oh yeah you need to pay more to see the ending which you wont see for 2 months"

this has been a PR nightmare for bioware and EA as this has actually effected the fiscal year profits due to the refunds from most of the well known outlets even from EA themself are giving refunds,

this has damaged the reputation of bioware and EA in a really bad way as the "retake mass effect" gains support due to the removal of integral missions and broken promises,

its gotten as far as raising $80,000 for the childs play charity which has gotten a LOT of positive support from stars and other game developers.

we have been called brats, attention ****s, greedy ****s and then be classed as needy spoiled brats by BIOWARE PR STAFF.

just because we are VERY vocal about what we feel about what we know is wrong only to be told "this is art".

as i said i have kept most information of what i have played / seen at CVG offices in the uk about mass effect 3 and the mystery 3rd disc has gotten me annoyied

1. Interesting
2. NDA's aren't cancelled when a game comes out
3. Interesting
4. I think most people missed this post because it was at the end of the page.

[Lupus Canivus]

Cybermortis wrote...

Some comments/observations;

If we didn't like ME3 we wouldn't be asking them to change the ending, we'd have chalked Bioware's name on the 'avoid' list and walked away. That we are willing to spend the time and energy to try and make them change the ending is a sign that the rest of the game (and series) was more than good enough to 'win us over'. Sure, its not 100% perfect even before the end, it has its bugs for one thing. But then no game is 100% perfect, and no matter how much time is put into a game you will always end up with some bugs - and at least this time none of the bugs prevents you from finishing the game...although some people who have finished the game might wish otherwise.

Speaking for myself, and I suspect the majority of those who want a better ending. If people liked the current ending then I'm happy for them. Seriously.
What we have problems with is the attitude of some of those people who try to defend the endings in illogical ways. We've been accused of trying to 'force' them to have a different ending...even though we've tried to point out that since any ending would be a DLC it would be entirely optional - and therefore they would not be required to use it. And of course that argument falls flat because they are trying to force us to stick with an ending the majority isn't happy with. Hell, 50% of the 'ending is fine/retake is wrong' arguments I've seen are totally illogical, and the other 50% accuse us of things that ironically only the 'ending is fine/retake is wrong' is doing.

But again, if you like the ending and are quite happy with it I have no problems what-so-ever. I'm not forcing or talking about forcing you to download and play any new ending that may or may not come out.


The core issue, however, is really about consumer rights and broken promises. Bioware made a whole heap of promises about what the ending would be like and what it would and would not contain. Remember the line that went 'there will be no A,B or C endings?'...presumably they think that a 'Red, Green or Blue' ending is somehow different.

The part about promises is either overlooked because people are focusing purely on the game itself and not the larger issues. Or it is being pushed to one side because if people start to think about it, it becomes clear that regardless of if they liked the ending or not that Bioware's advertising made false and/or misleading claims...and that is illegal in all of the countries in which the game has been sold. (Bare in mind that Amazon is allowing full refunds on the game specifically because it was falsely advertised)

Bioware, for their part, should take heart from two things. First that their customers enjoyed the game to the point that they have been motivated to try and do something about a fall in standards. Second that those same customers have been willing to not only give Bioware a chance to 'fix' their mistake but are of the opinion that they have the ability to do so.

If Bioware forgets or misses those two points and either does nothing, or worse gives us some half-assed slide-show at the end. Then their betrayal of their customers will be complete, and as a viable company they will have committed suicide. As a very significant proportion of their customer base will just walk away and find products from other companies, and 'new' customers will be put off by Bioware's reputation for treating customers as walking wallets.

Bioware, if you are reading this it is time to man up*, admit you made more than a few serious errors here - even if that it only to yourselves behind closed doors and in a whisper - and provide something of good quality for those who are rapidly loosing confidence in you. Stop trying to hide behind the PR talk and spin, thus far all it has done is make things worse for you, and do something positive. Time is running out.

I'll second that.

Hold the line!

[Razorsteel]

I just spotted this:www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/03/22/mass-effect-3-makers-to-rewrite-soul-crushing-ending-for-furious-fans/

More PR bunk? Just looks like stuff taken out of context.

Our Choices Should Matter- Hold The Line

Modifié par Razorsteel, 22 mars 2012 - 01:53 .

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Please remember this when reading statements from bioware and hold the line until they make good on their words.

Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10317489/1

Thank you for your time.

[Razorsteel]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Please remember this when reading statements from bioware and hold the line until they make good on their words.

Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10317489/1

Thank you for your time.

No worries, I intend to ride this horse until it drops dead.

[Bunzmaster]

Razorsteel wrote...

I just spotted this:www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/03/22/mass-effect-3-makers-to-rewrite-soul-crushing-ending-for-furious-fans/

More PR bunk? Just looks like stuff taken out of context.

Our Choices Should Matter- Hold The Line

 Hmmmm....sounds llike Fox news jumped the gun there a bit. They're making it soundalot more definite then I thought it was.

[Ender99]

Razorsteel wrote...

I just spotted this:www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/03/22/mass-effect-3-makers-to-rewrite-soul-crushing-ending-for-furious-fans/

More PR bunk? Just looks like stuff taken out of context.

Our Choices Should Matter- Hold The Line

Seems like it, but hey, they're not openly bashing us and our name it getting out there. It's a win.

@MeldarthX

If that's what happened, I bet they regret their decision now. If everyone finds out there will be hell to pay.

Keep it together guys, remember, we haven't quite won this thing yet. Keep the pressure up.

Hold the line, for as long as it takes.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Yeah I don't think the media really understands video games(I mean do you really think any of the reporters play video games)so i would not liik to them to get the story right.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10317489/1

Thank you for your time.

[Psythorn]

All holding the line might not like what I'm saying now but:
The whole retake and hold the line movement is not sharing _exactly_ the same goals. As I consider myself as part of that people I will use "us" and "we".
We all share our dislike of the endings. But we do not share exactly the same goals. And this is something that could backfire. So we should struggle to refine our goals so all of us or at least a vast majority of us is able to agree upon or otherwise we could be split and the line will not hold...
Is this happening somewhere ? As much as I would LOVE to have all scales of endings (and yes ONE of these these endings should include a full win (and blue babies)) I'm not sure if it will happen to that scale (or at all). So you will not loose me if "we" agree on not insisting on blue babies... You might loose me when we do not insist in getting a least one brighter ending... Others we might loose if we do not push for one ending without starchild.