9972 réponses à ce sujet

[MeldarthX]

Syrellaris wrote...

Windariah wrote...

Something else to consider, if what chmarr posted is really real.. it would certainly explain the vast differences between professional reviews vs user reviews. If they are reviewing an entirely different product?!? Ugh.. I cant even wrap my head around that.

I believe a different thread here on BSN has already debunked what he said as false. Even Bioware commented on it.

Ok first and formost; of course BW will say its false........to admitt that I don't need to say more - but if he comes back with screenshots - or pics of the disks.........its going to get interesting - and this is the first time - preview games have differed from gold versions......and review versions....

[Hicks233]

TrveOmegaSlayer wrote...

I just say my little experience, hoping it might help analyzing facts.
I'm a PS3 only owner and loved ME2 and ME3 (yeah I liked the ending, I believe in the indoc-theory)

Anyway, as an average guy no PR expert guy, I saw Bioware a bit weak because of the outcry, so I started this little side campaign http://www.radioplay...-effect-on-ps3/

I used a twitter account to communicate with Zeschuk, Muzyka and Hudson (communicate means I only sent the link I just posted)
The twitter account for this was reported yesterday after the first tweet to them, and closed this morning at the second tweet.

Don't know how you can put them into analysis but it's part of how they're managing the situation.
Also, Operation Goliath wasn't offered to PS3 owners.
Food for your thoughts I hope.

There's been lots of goof ups throughout this entire process. I hope that lessons are learnt and their reaction to their customers is improved. The issue with PS3 players not being able to participate regardless of the event stinks also.

[Luiginius]

 Something to lighten the mood:
edit, wrong link 
www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/22/is-bioware-setting-a-dangerous-precedent-by-considering-alternative-endings/

Modifié par Luiginius, 22 mars 2012 - 04:05 .

[Xellith]

TAKE THIS WITH TONNES OF SALT AND NOT JUST A PINCH

Could this all be the biggest PR stunt in gaming history?

Im a member of the RetakeME3 camp. I have been trying to go through all the information that the playerbase has actually accumilated. Its a lot of data to go through - ranging from Bioware staff comments to stuff that groups of individuals like you and I have put together.

Now - I am a proponent of the Indoctrination theory. I believe there are way too many things going on for it to be a coincidence. Let us asume for a second that the indoctrination theory is in fact correct. We do not know it is or not. But let us asume that it is indeed correct.

Did Bioware release Mass Effect 3 with the ending INTENTIONALLY removed from the game with the intent to try and immerse the playerbase into a story more than anyone else has ever attempted? Just take a step back a second. Take a breath. Is it indeed possible that Bioware itself is in reality indoctrinating all us gamers right now? We either accept what we see before us - or we call bull****. Those who are indoctrinated i.e people who accept the game for what they see - those who are fighting indoctrination people mostly comprised of the Retake movement.

But what is that isnt the end? What if we are being put in real life in the exact same situation that Shepard is in. We can either choose to believe whatever we see. Or we can fight the indoctrination by refusing to accept any of those choices given to us.

I know this is all just wishful thinking. But Bioware have hinted that there is more to come.. im not sure exactly what to make of it all anymore. Is my feeling like this being conflicted with accepting what we have been given or holding onto hope more indoctrination from Bioware? or is it again just wishful thinking?

To make sure that a good many number of people were indoctrinated into this sceme they would need to make sure that the knowledge that you were indoctrinated wouldnt ever get out. People just wouldnt be able to be emersed in the story if they knew beforehand from people talking about it.

Could this very well be the biggest stunt in gaming history? Could Bioware be immersing its entire playerbase in the story for a climactic finale? Are they going to release a DLC where we wake up to our choices?

Is any of this even true? I hope it is. Flying Spaghetti monster help us if its not. If this is pulled off - just think of how many broken hearted gamers are going to be all "oh.. my... god.. /mindblown". They would gain so much credability. Fans and non fans alike will be talking about it for years.

This one event could go down as one of the greatest feats in videogame history if Bioware are doing what I hope they are doing.

Additional 1:
If they are doing what I think they are doing then this is just the biggest publicity stunt EVER. Think of how many newspapers/media outlets/websites are talking about ME3 right now that arnt even gamer sites. Think of how many millions upon millions will be effected and witness it.

www.holdtheline.co/threads/real-life-indoctrination-by-bioware.30/

(Or am I really just giving Bioware too much credit?)

Modifié par Xellith, 22 mars 2012 - 04:06 .

[MeldarthX]

Hicks233 wrote...

I really hope that they don't try and do a one size fits all ending. That would defeat the point of choice. We all as individuals have an idea of the ending that we want for our experience, that just makes it even more important to have endings that fill a range of outcomes, that's the only way to satisfy the consumers and match the desciption of what we were sold.

If this results in just one single ending that tries to appease everyone then it will end up being a face palm moment. Better that they take the time to provide the range of successful through to failure endings that were needed to begin with than one single cliched ending.

Have there been any more arts leaning bodies giving commentary on the issue?

I just find it interesting how artistic integrity is being used so often as a reason to not make any changes. I can't understand why it is so important that games are regarded as art. Why does it matter so much? Is it not enough to be regarded as a successful and fulfilling product that is regarded well?

They already did a one size fits all ending - specially if you're color blind.  What is the real difference between the three endings...........if your assets is high enough - its shepard breathing; and Cid closing and then blowing up.

More and more things come out; BW will deny all of it - because if its true things only get worse.  *shrugs* We might never know what really happen

[Xandurpein]

I think that we would do ourselves and our movement a lot of service if we stopped trying to place the blame for what we consider a bad ending on anyone individual. It's futile and it really doesn't help our cause to go after Casey Hudson or anyone else personally. I understand the underlying motive, we want a "culprit", I have felt like that too, but it doesn't help us at all.

It's Bioware as a company we have issues with, not a writer, a developer or any other individual. If there's one thing I know about being a good boss, it's that you never sell out your staff, to deflect critizism against yourself. You stand up for them and accept the blame in their name, because you are the one ultimately responsible.

Let's focus on what we feel Bioware did poorly, and let them deal with who did what in house. It's really none of our business.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 22 mars 2012 - 04:05 .

[MeldarthX]

Xellith wrote...

TAKE THIS WITH TONNES OF SALT AND NOT JUST A PINCH

Could this all be the biggest PR stunt in gaming history?

Im a member of the RetakeME3 camp. I have been trying to go through all the information that the playerbase has actually accumilated. Its a lot of data to go through - ranging from Bioware staff comments to stuff that groups of individuals like you and I have put together.

Now - I am a proponent of the Indoctrination theory. I believe there are way too many things going on for it to be a coincidence. Let us asume for a second that the indoctrination theory is in fact correct. We do not know it is or not. But let us asume that it is indeed correct.

Did Bioware release Mass Effect 3 with the ending INTENTIONALLY removed from the game with the intent to try and immerse the playerbase into a story more than anyone else has ever attempted? Just take a step back a second. Take a breath. Is it indeed possible that Bioware itself is in reality indoctrinating all us gamers right now? We either accept what we see before us - or we call bull****. Those who are indoctrinated i.e people who accept the game for what they see - those who are fighting indoctrination people mostly comprised of the Retake movement.

But what is that isnt the end? What if we are being put in real life in the exact same situation that Shepard is in. We can either choose to believe whatever we see. Or we can fight the indoctrination by refusing to accept any of those choices given to us.

I know this is all just wishful thinking. But Bioware have hinted that there is more to come.. im not sure exactly what to make of it all anymore. Is my feeling like this being conflicted with accepting what we have been given or holding onto hope more indoctrination from Bioware? or is it again just wishful thinking?

To make sure that a good many number of people were indoctrinated into this sceme they would need to make sure that the knowledge that you were indoctrinated wouldnt ever get out. People just wouldnt be able to be emersed in the story if they knew beforehand from people talking about it.

Could this very well be the biggest stunt in gaming history? Could Bioware be immersing its entire playerbase in the story for a climactic finale? Are they going to release a DLC where we wake up to our choices?

Is any of this even true? I hope it is. Flying Spaghetti monster help us if its not. If this is pulled off - just think of how many broken hearted gamers are going to be all "oh.. my... god.. /mindblown". They would gain so much credability. Fans and non fans alike will be talking about it for years.

This one event could go down as one of the greatest feats in videogame history if Bioware are doing what I hope they are doing.

Additional 1:
If they are doing what I think they are doing then this is just the biggest publicity stunt EVER. Think of how many newspapers/media outlets/websites are talking about ME3 right now that arnt even gamer sites. Think of how many millions upon millions will be effected and witness it.

I've thrown this out already - which end leads into the Rumor of "The Truth" I still want to believe its true - but with statements that are coming out; more and more - its getting harder to believe that.

[Wintermancer]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

For everyone else, we're discussing dinosaurs and puppies on my Twitter if you're interested. You can hold the line and still choose to engage in positive discussion. <3

Awww, everyone loves dinosaurs and puppies!

[cApAc aMaRu]

Xellith wrote...

TAKE THIS WITH TONNES OF SALT AND NOT JUST A PINCH

Could this all be the biggest PR stunt in gaming history?

Im a member of the RetakeME3 camp. I have been trying to go through all the information that the playerbase has actually accumilated. Its a lot of data to go through - ranging from Bioware staff comments to stuff that groups of individuals like you and I have put together.

Now - I am a proponent of the Indoctrination theory. I believe there are way too many things going on for it to be a coincidence. Let us asume for a second that the indoctrination theory is in fact correct. We do not know it is or not. But let us asume that it is indeed correct.

Did Bioware release Mass Effect 3 with the ending INTENTIONALLY removed from the game with the intent to try and immerse the playerbase into a story more than anyone else has ever attempted? Just take a step back a second. Take a breath. Is it indeed possible that Bioware itself is in reality indoctrinating all us gamers right now? We either accept what we see before us - or we call bull****. Those who are indoctrinated i.e people who accept the game for what they see - those who are fighting indoctrination people mostly comprised of the Retake movement.

But what is that isnt the end? What if we are being put in real life in the exact same situation that Shepard is in. We can either choose to believe whatever we see. Or we can fight the indoctrination by refusing to accept any of those choices given to us.

I know this is all just wishful thinking. But Bioware have hinted that there is more to come.. im not sure exactly what to make of it all anymore. Is my feeling like this being conflicted with accepting what we have been given or holding onto hope more indoctrination from Bioware? or is it again just wishful thinking?

To make sure that a good many number of people were indoctrinated into this sceme they would need to make sure that the knowledge that you were indoctrinated wouldnt ever get out. People just wouldnt be able to be emersed in the story if they knew beforehand from people talking about it.

Could this very well be the biggest stunt in gaming history? Could Bioware be immersing its entire playerbase in the story for a climactic finale? Are they going to release a DLC where we wake up to our choices?

Is any of this even true? I hope it is. Flying Spaghetti monster help us if its not. If this is pulled off - just think of how many broken hearted gamers are going to be all "oh.. my... god.. /mindblown". They would gain so much credability. Fans and non fans alike will be talking about it for years.

This one event could go down as one of the greatest feats in videogame history if Bioware are doing what I hope they are doing.

Additional 1:
If they are doing what I think they are doing then this is just the biggest publicity stunt EVER. Think of how many newspapers/media outlets/websites are talking about ME3 right now that arnt even gamer sites. Think of how many millions upon millions will be effected and witness it.

www.holdtheline.co/threads/real-life-indoctrination-by-bioware.30/

(Or am I really just giving Bioware too much credit?)

I don't trust Bioware to write games anymore, let alone real life.

[Xellith]

Thats the only way I can reasonably justify the terrible ending ><

[MDT1]

The problem if this all was intentional.
There are poeple who burned/refunded there copies, deleted their saves.
People say sales in UK dropt by 75% in week 2.
Do you really think if they intended to get fans raging they wouldn't have thought about this?

They saw with DAII how fan backlash can make a game toxic so it sells no DLC and retailers aren't interested in selling ultimate editions of it.

[Numdenu]

You know, I'd really like to know what BioWare employees think of Indoctrination Theory. Not whether or not they'll use it, just what they honestly think of the theory, if they find it interesting or not.

[Tyragon]

I hold the Mass Effect series dearly, like we all do. I've read through several view points and parts; mainly atghunter, Buchuck, Casey Hudson, Jarrett Lee and Jessica Merizan, among other posts.

My understanding for these mind-blowing ways to trick customers like the "PR damage control" and among other things -- is somewhat down to zero. Though what I do understand is that there's bitter lemon and sweet cherry on both sides of the cake. This PR damage control is understandable and good tactic, though I doubt it's used in every meaningful way when a Bioware employee addresses our issues to us. That's not why I'm against the ending, to prove I'm not easily being swayed by their acts, which seems to be the case of some.

I wholeheartedly agree with Samuel_Valkyrie in his recent post that we shouldn't back down, but not stuff our ears with more objects than necessary and ignore everything Bioware employees might tell us because "it's a conspiracy to halt the movement".

Our movement should be solely to, yeah, get a better ending/s, OUR ending. Though we must also seem reasonable and stay open for friendly negotiable terms. Like "buy the game AFTER the DLC ending". What kind of ending me might get? Well, that's a sacrifice me must be ready to take. Better we get something than our shields battered and the line broken.


Stay true, pause and breath out -- but NEVER stop holding the line and show that we, we dear fans, are caring - perhaps more than those creating this - about Mass Effect franchise and that our movement is not to ruin and bring down Bioware; but to save it.

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

As we all have read, Dr. Ray Muzyka has responed in a blogpost to RetakeME3. If you haven't read it, here's the link: http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

RetakeME3 has had three main points it wanted to achieve with DLC:

• Our choices should matter: Multiple endings based on our chocies throughout the game(s), with significant difference between all of them, including, but not limited to so-called 'happy endings'.
• Endings have to make sense: Said endings have to be in line with the rest of the storyline, and with as little plotholes as possible
• Closure: We want to know where our characters, their squadmates and other characters, and even species, will end up, or at least get a clear indication of that.

The blogpost being mostly PR speak, it doesn't include anything concrete. This is extremely likely due to the fact that they have nothing ready, and anything concrete would pinpoint them to somthing that they may not be able to deliver upon. Having made that mistake with the PR, they want to reduce the chances of that happening again.

However, the blogpost, along with other communications from Bioware staff, do indicate an invitation to the negotiation table. More than that, Bioware indicates it concedes to some of our requests. First of all, they indicated that they will make the endings make sense, which is point 2 on our bullited list. Also, they implied, that they will help create closure for the story. Since this is rather subjective, I can understand that they don't want to outright promise that, but at least it shows that they are willing to work on it.

These concessions are a step in the right direction. We're not there yet, though, but, still, it is a step. We should appreciate this. We should appreciate it for what it is: an opening bid for negotiations.

Now, I believe, it is time to show that we, as well, are willing to take place at the negotiations table. We must show that we are reasonable, rational negotiation partners, and not raging whining entitled obsessive fans.

What does that mean? We have to give Bioware some room. We have to make certain concessions.

HOWEVER, our bullited points are non-negotiable. We have made that clear from the start. These are our requests, and we will not back down from them.

The thing is, Bioware did not ask for us to do that. What he asked of us, is to stop our campaign. To abandon holding the line.

Should we? No. Because once we do so, we have nothing to exert our collective voice with. So, no, we hold the line.

Instead, I suggest we make concessions. Namely, the following:

• We stop review-bombing
• We amend our message: Instead of saying "Don't buy the game", we will say "Buy the game, but only after the endings DLC has been released".

Those, and only those, should be our concessions to Bioware and EA. To show them we are co-operative, and willing negotiation partners. We will, however, continue holding the line, by doing the following:

• We keep donating to the Charity.
• We keep linking to articles that support our position, like the Forbes articles, Angry Joe, etc.
• We keep the conversation going, not only here on BSN, but on Facebook, twitter, etc.

I hope all of you will take these suggestions to heart.

With regards, Samuel Valkyrie

PS: I posted this in a seperate thread as well, so that if it either disappears in the massive number of posts here, or in the forum itself, at least as many people as possible would be able to read it.

[*]I just want to repeat this, so that everyone may read (and many only read the very first post, and the last page).

[MDT1]

Numdenu wrote...

You know, I'd really like to know what BioWare employees think of Indoctrination Theory. Not whether or not they'll use it, just what they honestly think of the theory, if they find it interesting or not.

The problem is, as far as I know classic indoctrination is irreversible on the other hand people can break free for short times and once the reapers are destroyed ...

But again, not sure if this would just make those who liked the ending start a new retake mass effect as Lightfox pointed out.

Modifié par MDT1, 22 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[Fulgrim88]

I'll just leave this here because it's relevant. (Edit: Link fixed)

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 22 mars 2012 - 04:24 .

[Utopianus]

MDT1 wrote...

*snipped for length*

Though your argumentation makes sense, we will disagree here.

To me the most simple argumentation ist the argumentation most probably true.

They didn't finallize the ending for to long, got pressure because of the release date and hastily put this together.

Also consider, that an ending might make more sense to you if you
A) Where involved in its developement
The guy in the next office actually  wrote it and you can just ask him what he thought when he did XY.

We don't know for certain if the ending was a result of rushing to meet deadlines - I don't think anyone other than BioWare's developers would know, and I don't think we'll ever know, as admitting to rushing to meet a deadline, producing a product of lesser quality than originally planned, and then selling that as a fully completed product of AAA quality, will not make them look good and will attract more controversy than already is.

As for the ending might make more sense if we the non-developers were involved in the game's development, that would definitely be true, however, what's important is for the ending to make sense to the customers, as they are the end users for the product which the development team has created. If the ending only makes sense to those who developed it and no one else, then the whole point of developing that ending is moot - you don't produce a product your customers cannot use, and in this case using the product includes understanding and make sense of the ending.

[musicaleCA]

wantedman dan wrote...

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

I think you'll find editorial direction is EXACTLY how you paint a news organization. In this case with the right-wing sensationalism brush.

I think you'll find that you completely misinterpreted my statement. If the NEWS organization has an editorial bent, then yes, it is fair to judge them by it. However, it is completely unfair to judge the news organization by the editorial bent its OPINION programming has. The same can be said for NBC News, The New York Times, etc.

Indeed. I wasn't juding Fox News based on it's editorials. I was indeed basing my comment against their trustworthiness based on their actual news reporting. Many times I've seen their live feeds veer wildly into left-field while other more reputable news orgs like the BBC and Al Jazeera remain objective. To say nothing of the fact twisting that happens on their regular news broadcasts.

But this is all veering way, way away from what the thread is about. Can we just agree to drop this matter? If you want to discuss Fox's trustworthiness as a news source (or lack thereof), invite me to some other thread in some way, way off-topic corner of the forums.

[durasteel]

The Smoking Man just called, he wants his tinfoil hat back.

[Noatz]

Post I made about being positive and posting suggestions that tie in with Bioware's existing vision:

http://social.biowar.../index/10456403

[Utopianus]

Xellith wrote...

*snip*

www.holdtheline.co/threads/real-life-indoctrination-by-bioware.30/

(Or am I really just giving Bioware too much credit?)

If that were true, I'd be the exact OPPOSITE of being impressed. That level of immersion in a game is, I believe, unhealthy. Just a personal opinion.

[Nightfire78]

wantedman dan wrote...

seitani wrote...

Im confused did Bioware confirm new ending or what

Dr. Ray confirmed they were going to work on new ending content to give more closure to us ardent fans.

He said they were " hard at work on a number of
game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing
more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey". Game content initiatives can be a lot of things. Could just be a codex on how explosions with color don't destrot star systems for all we know...

Not to be overly negative, just think that saying he confirmed new ending content implies more than he actually said...

Nonetheless I hope it *is* actual new ending content and he was just tyring to be as non-specific as possible while it was still in the works. Not going to stop holding the line until I see an actual DLC that fixes the ending, though.

Hold the line!

Edit: Link to his statement/blog: blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

Modifié par Nightfire78, 22 mars 2012 - 04:26 .

[Syrellaris]

MeldarthX wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Windariah wrote...

Something else to consider, if what chmarr posted is really real.. it would certainly explain the vast differences between professional reviews vs user reviews. If they are reviewing an entirely different product?!? Ugh.. I cant even wrap my head around that.

I believe a different thread here on BSN has already debunked what he said as false. Even Bioware commented on it.

Ok first and formost; of course BW will say its false........to admitt that I don't need to say more - but if he comes back with screenshots - or pics of the disks.........its going to get interesting - and this is the first time - preview games have differed from gold versions......and review versions....

Personally I thinky ou are over reacting. The thread, that I believe was on this subject has substantial proof it was false information, before bioware even commented. They just confirmed that it was false information.

You could also ask the people at eurogamer 2011, including me that saw the game there. The dev xboxes there only had 2 disks pre-loaded.

Regardless, I did not say I was right, I just said I believe there was a thread on it on BSN that proofed it to be false.

[Bachuck]

Luiginius wrote...

 Something to lighten the mood:
edit, wrong link 
www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/22/is-bioware-setting-a-dangerous-precedent-by-considering-alternative-endings/

Thank you!

Everyone read this new Forbes article. It beautifully exposes the hypocrisy of a certain IGN editor.

*Adds to OP*

[Nightfire78]

MDT1 wrote...

Numdenu wrote...

You know, I'd really like to know what BioWare employees think of Indoctrination Theory. Not whether or not they'll use it, just what they honestly think of the theory, if they find it interesting or not.

The problem is, as far as I know classic indoctrination is irreversible on the other hand people can break free for short times and once the reapers are destroyed ...

But again, not sure if this would just make those who liked the ending start a new retake mass effect as Lightfox pointed out.

That's why I think choice and optional DLC is the way to go. People who like it as is don't need to download the content or can still play their Shepard in such a way as to get these endings, but people for whom the ending is... problematic... can download the DLC or choose to play their Shepard in such a way as to get other new endings.

No one wants to rob people who, for whatever reasons, like the current ending of their enjoyment. We just would like to actually have some enjoyment too

Hold the line!