9976 réponses à ce sujet

[Hicks233]

shephard987 wrote...

Another article worthy of a read.
PLEASE COMMENT IN A CIVIL AND POLITE MANNER.
SHOW THEM OUR VOICE IS NOT A MINORITY THAT CAN BE BRUSHED OFF.

http://splitkick.com...ed-video-games/

Keep steady

Hold the Line

I found myself grimacing at the mention of Penny Arcade, that and describing us as children. Personal gripe here for a moment. What does it matter if games are art or not...

Happy to Hold the Line with Civility. See no reason to give them extra hits though.

[Enichan]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

So many media outlets are saying they are, its going to be hard to go back.

See, this is one spot where the media may actually be helping us. By misreporting what Bioware says, they are making it look like they have said they will "fix" the ending, which is not really what they said.

Yeah, glad to see that whole "not fact-checking" thing cuts both ways occasionally.

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I don't think that is
double-speak. I think they are literally saying that they are not
changing the ending. Dr. Senior Vice President and General Manager of
the BioWare Label of Electronic Arts's statement was full of
double-speak, but at no point does it claim that the ending will be
changed. As other have pointed out, Bioware seems to think all we want
is more closure.

I'm not up on PR, but "not double-speak" to me would be "We're not changing the ending". Saying they never said they would still leaves the door open for doing it and claiming they never said they wouldn't. Subtle difference, but still leaves plenty room for backpedalling.

Radwar wrote...

Oh for crying out loud! The upcoming DLC is the real ending DLC Bioware has been working on for some time now. Want proof? 

Check out this video starting at 18:20


Also check out this video and you'll "get it".

That's not proof, that's speculation, which is quite different from proof. To quote Radiohead's There There: "Just because you feel it doesn't mean it's there". I like the indoctrination theory and think it might be correct, but establishing it as fact when there's no real indication from Bioware that it's the case seems naive.

[izmirtheastarach]

MattFini wrote...

And that Twitter account is also referring everyone who hated the ending to Dr. Ray's statement from yesterday.

Defiitely leads me to believe they think this is all about clarification, which is hilarious.  No about of clarification will make the horrible StarChild work.  

It's important to clarify that they may well know exactly what the fans want. But what they are talking about doing is likely the easiest thing for them to do. The bare minimum, let's call it. And that's just not going to be enough to satisfy the fanbase.

[jakal66]

It's not what they think man, they know we want a different ending but they don't seem to want to change what they've done and in a certain way I admire that even though i hate the endings.They will give some closure to what happened and why it happened but that's about as much as you're going to get.And if you get a sort of alternate ending it will be connected to the three you have already.But this last I don't think its even gonna happen.

[Apathy1989]

ericjdev wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I don't think that is double-speak. I think they are literally saying that they are not changing the ending. Dr. Senior Vice President and General Manager of the BioWare Label of Electronic Arts's statement was full of double-speak, but at no point does it claim that the ending will be changed. As other have pointed out, Bioware seems to think all we want is more closure.

That's exactly how I'm reading it.

Me too, unfortunately. Somehow he thinks that maintaining the current ending is possible, just add on 5 minutes of dialogue and "what happened next" slides. He doesn't understand that the ending is a betrayal of everything the series has stood for, and needs rewritting of the last 10 minutes.

Modifié par Apathy1989, 22 mars 2012 - 09:48 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Enichan wrote...

I'm not up on PR, but "not double-speak" to me would be "We're not changing the ending". Saying they never said they would still leaves the door open for doing it and claiming they never said they wouldn't. Subtle difference, but still leaves plenty room for backpedalling.

Solid point. Open ended response. And of course Dr. Senior Vice President and General Manager of the BioWare Label of Electronic Arts's statement only commits them to "game content initiatives that will help answer the questions", which is about as vague as you can get.

[Elodin123]

Solotalento wrote...

from twitter

http://i.imgur.com/zZfTO.jpg

I don't want an explanation why Shepard made things worse, i want this:

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

Hold the line.

Modifié par darhedarna, 22 mars 2012 - 09:49 .

[Aviditie]

Regarding articles referring to us as terrorists who are ruining the gaming industry:

I don't understand. I spent 70 bucks on this game and enjoyed it until the last 15 minutes.  I'm telling bioware these 15 minutes ruined everything for me, including all the other dlc, games, jacket, cap, t-shirt and more that I bought.  I'm saying to them if you fix this 15 minutes, I'll continue to support you in the way I have been. If you don't fix the ending, I'm not buying anything else from you.  They then have their choice.  Since 60k + of their most ardent supporters feel this way and are telling them this, it's worth their time to listen. That doesn't make me entitled or mean I'm ruining the gaming franchise as a whole.  It means I no longer believe critics who aren't as invested as I am, and that I'm giving bioware a choice regarding my wallet.  Why does this break the industry (other than saying "critics can't predict fan response")?  

Why shouldn't developers seriously think about the ramifications of how they end their games?  

Why is the media so personally offended that gamers can have some influence in the industry they spend billions on?

[jess05]

I just want what was promised. No more, no less.
I (and many others) purchased the game expecting those promises to be fullfilled.Not a punch to the gut.


Sadly, I think thats impossible to do at this point.

Modifié par jess05, 22 mars 2012 - 09:51 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Something people may need to come terms with is that Bioware is really in a hard position. Since it's become publicly known that the ending was the result of only a couple of people essentially working in a vacuum, changing it would be something of an indictment of those people.

What they don't understand is that most of us have lost every ounce of trust we may ever have had in Casey Hudson and his cohort. It's already happened. Fixing the ending regains the trust we have in the company as a whole, but I'm unlikely to ever believe a word that comes out of that particular source again.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 22 mars 2012 - 09:52 .

[Hicks233]

Aviditie wrote...

Regarding articles referring to us as terrorists who are ruining the gaming industry:

I don't understand. I spent 70 bucks on this game and enjoyed it until the last 15 minutes.  I'm telling bioware these 15 minutes ruined everything for me, including all the other dlc, games, jacket, cap, t-shirt and more that I bought.  I'm saying to them if you fix this 15 minutes, I'll continue to support you in the way I have been. If you don't fix the ending, I'm not buying anything else from you.  They then have their choice.  Since 60k + of their most ardent supporters feel this way and are telling them this, it's worth their time to listen. That doesn't make me entitled or mean I'm ruining the gaming franchise as a whole.  It means I no longer believe critics who aren't as invested as I am, and that I'm giving bioware a choice regarding my wallet.  Why does this break the industry (other than saying "critics can't predict fan response")?  

Why shouldn't developers seriously think about the ramifications of how they end their games?  

Why is the media so personally offended that gamers can have some influence in the industry they spend billions on?

The media forgets that we're customers and that it's a buyers market.

[Enichan]

Aviditie wrote...

*snip*

Why is the media so personally offended that gamers can have some influence in the industry they spend billions on?

Demonizing gamers has been a favourite passtime of the media for a long time. As disgusting as it is, this is nothing new. What we're doing would be fine in any other instance, since all we're doing is voicing our displeasure and withdrawing our continued purchases of their products.

But the media likes portraying gamers as horrible people, so this is what we get.

[maki0129]

Apathy1989 wrote...


Me too, unfortunately. Somehow he thinks that maintaining the current ending is possible, just add on 5 minutes of dialogue and "what happened next" slides. He doesn't understand that the ending is a betrayal of everything the series has stood for, and needs rewritting of the last 10 minutes.

It doesn't even need rewriting of the last 10 minutes, just take out the whole sequence of Shepard meeting the Catalyst. Immediately after Anderson dies, have the Crucible activate, and then let Shepard die right there knowing he saved the Galaxy. Cut to a funeral with a nice little eulogy by your LI (or maybe Joker if you had no LI) instead of the whole Normandy crashing sequence, and then if you're feeling charitable, throw in some text epilogues of what happens next to each crew Normandy crew mate and/or species.

I'll even be nice and let them keep their stupid Stargazer sequence, since I know Buzz Aldrin does nothing for cheap.

And there... You have a proper satisfying ending.

[Gruzmog]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Something people may need to
come terms with is that Bioware is really in a hard position. Since it's
become publicly known that the ending was the result of only a couple
of people essentially working in a vacuum, changing it would be
something of an indictment of those people.

What they don't
understand is that most of us have lost every ounce of trust we may ever
have had in Casey Hudson and his cohort. It's already happened. Fixing
the ending regains the trust we have in the company as a whole, but I'm
unlikely to ever believe a word that comes out of that particular source
again.

Nah that only the case if you pin it on those people. While its the proces that was chosen that is to blame. More internal disuccsion and debate would have helped and they should point to that as the mistake that was made. Not the flaws of the ones involved. Anyone can derail once he is stuck in a certain though process on a certain course. Feedback is key

Modifié par Gruzmog, 22 mars 2012 - 09:56 .

[fallingseraph]

Wow

This is amazing

[Harbinger of Fun]

Y'all are entitled whiny children who can't understand a story if it doesn't end with rainbows and unicorns and creepy hentai blue alien porn. The ending was deep because it had things that were happening on a very big scale and that made Mass Effect 3 the most important game out of all of them. You thought you would just get to the end and the reapers would die? You cant even understand the use of simile metaphors in the child being the same one from the begining. It's endings like this that make BioWare an amazing artist and if you idiot kiddies want to try and ****** on game industry artistic freedom with your manipulative charity drives then u can all die.

[/troll]

[thedancingdruid]

@Shepard987 wow so this Jim Hunter from Splitkick is now comparing us to terrorists...or children stomping our feet.

"There’s a reason the feds don’t negotiate with terrorists: it doesn’t do anyone any good." He goes on to say..."If terrorists see that when their peers demand a bus, they get a bus, the next guy to take over a bank will want the bus too. “But you gave it to that last guy, ” they’ll whine. Now, when the ‘passionate’ and ‘vocal’ gamers dislike something, they’ll band together and beat their fists against whatever building is closest to try and bring it down. This group of people is but a small subset of the hundreds of thousands of players who bought the title. As Penny Arcade’s Ben Kuchera wrote, “most of the people who played Mass Effect 3 have no idea there’s a controversy at all.”

Are you serious? You obviously have not played the game and are just trolling for publicity.

"Then we get to the whole “games as art” argument. Talk about setting that whole thing back. Art is unflinching and unapologetic. It’s presented and does not allow itself to be altered just because people don’t like that it was made from dried feces instead of daisy petals. Rosebud isn’t a woman."

First of all will someone please explain to me the fascination with excrement that has been permeating the media and some threads? And who cares about Rosebud? Unless you're suggesting I simply take my copy of ME3 and toss it into the fire like the sled. What does that even mean?

"They made the Shepard story end a specific way and now they’re changing it thanks to the feet stomping of children. Ending aside, this is the worst possible outcome."

Play the game first before you comment. You also can't have it both ways.

[Carnage752]

Harbinger of Fun wrote...

Y'all are entitled whiny children who can't understand a story if it doesn't end with rainbows and unicorns and creepy hentai blue alien porn. The ending was deep because it had things that were happening on a very big scale and that made Mass Effect 3 the most important game out of all of them. You thought you would just get to the end and the reapers would die? You cant even understand the use of simile metaphors in the child being the same one from the begining. It's endings like this that make BioWare an amazing artist and if you idiot kiddies want to try and ****** on game industry artistic freedom with your manipulative charity drives then u can all die.

[/troll]

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

[Fulgrim88]

MattFini wrote...

And that Twitter account is also referring everyone who hated the ending to Dr. Ray's statement from yesterday.

Defiitely leads me to believe they think this is all about clarification, which is hilarious.  No about of clarification will make the horrible StarChild work.  

If that really is all the conclusion they drew out of hundreds of pages of constructive criticism, I'm done with this company.

Seriously, I hate these "wahwah I'm leaving" hyperboles as much as everyone else, but if they really think that the biggest backlash and PR desaster in the history of their company, heck, maybe in the history of gaming can be solved by a little bit of condescending "clarification", they are indeed beyond salvageable and dead set on seeing this franchise crash and burn.

Mother*******  Space Batman, this is maddening.

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 22 mars 2012 - 10:03 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Gruzmog wrote...

Nah that only the case if you pin it on those people. While its the proces that was chosen that is to blame. More internal disuccsion and debate would have helped and they should point to that as the mistake that was made. Not the flaws of the ones involved. Anyone can derail once he is stuck in a certain though process on a certain course. Feedback is key

Perhaps they should have avoided multiple public statements that pinned it on those people. I guess you are right that it was the company's mistake for letting them produce the ending in that way, and it's still their mistake to fix.

So I guess I just fall back on the fact that EA as a company is going to find the easiest way to adress this, and trying to give us "closure" and answer our questions is the easiest way to address this.

[MattFini]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

MattFini wrote...

And that Twitter account is also referring everyone who hated the ending to Dr. Ray's statement from yesterday.

Defiitely leads me to believe they think this is all about clarification, which is hilarious.  No about of clarification will make the horrible StarChild work.  

If that really is all the conclusion they drew out of hundreds of pages of constructive criticism, I'm done with this company.

Seriously, I hate these "wahwah I'm leaving" hyperboles as much as everyone else, but if they really think that the biggest backlash and PR desaster in the history of their company, heck, maybe in the history of gaming can be solved by a little "clarification", they are indeed beyond salvageable and dead set on seeing this franchise crash and burn.

Mother*******  Space Batman, this is maddening.

I hate to admit it, but I would be right there with you.

I have hung on this long becuase I love ME, and I'm more than happy to wait for an offical stance/announcement on this issue.  But if they really miss the point of everything we've been talking about ... well, I have no problem throwing my hands up and leaving.  So many other games out there that I haven't played...

But that's getting way ahead of myself.  I'm optimistic and looking forward to seeing what their announcement might be.  Hopefully it's a good one.

[Romidiant]

Hydralysk wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Enichan wrote...

In case you guys haven't noticed, the charity drive is winding down, apparently at the request of the Child's Play people, apparently because they've come under scrutiny due to people misunderstanding the charity and thinking the charity shares the same goals as the Retake movement.

I'm pretty sad that misinformation from media hyping this stuff up and painting us as the badguys is effectively costing sick children charity and entertainment. Figured this was pertinent to mention over on this thread, what with it all being about PR, and PR being responsible for the early shut down.

So?

Who cares about them? We should stop helping children just because they don't want us to?

Ya, we are the evil ones.

I don't think this is Child's Play's fault, they simply feel that the negative attention they've apparently been getting from being indirectly associated with us outweighs the gains of keeping it open. The people we should be mad at are the people attacking them for allowing us to donate as a group.

It is unfortunate that it's come to this all because of a missunderstanding. On the bright side, that's $80k they wouldn't have gotten if no one got the ball rolling. So bad press or not, there will be kids who will still benefit from it.

Our choices matter- hold the line.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

LdyBelial wrote...

Solotalento wrote...

from twitter

http://i.imgur.com/zZfTO.jpg

No, they never said they were going to change the ending.  The blog post specifically said they were going to "clarify" it.  

We can assume that means they think those us of who want new endings are too stupid to understand the one we got.  They will keep their ending but explain it to us.  I honestly don't need an explanation, I got the ending.  I just think it isn't fitting for the series.  It is a complete dichotomy of everything else the series was about.

And that is why I am holding the line and will not buy anything EA or bioware makes including a longer versions of the stupid 2001 and BSG ripp off ending we have now.  I will only buy their stuff if they release new endings with options that reflect our choices and I ask the rest of you to do the same.
Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10317489/1

Thank you for your time.

[Aviditie]

@ harbinger of fun. I get that the catalyst looks like the child that died. I don't get why the catalyst cares about my EMS to decide if I get the synergy option or not. I don't get why the reapers haven't turned on the catalyst since all created turns on its creator. Or why the catalyst couldn't stop prothean/Shepard from stopping it in calling in its reapers. Or why (insert lots of logic error). Bu more than anything, I don't get wh such an upbeat, hopeful series ends on such a bleak note and then uses the excuse of artistic whatever and I'm just supposed to accept the 180 with awe.

[thedancingdruid]

@DoctorCrowtgamer...joined, seconded, patch ready, SW:ToR sub already cancelled and survey answered.

Goodbye, Bioware, I will...Hold The Line!