9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkeus]

Bachuck wrote...

redknight38 wrote...

People, he's in marketing. THAT'S THE PR DEPARTMENT. At the very least, it's closely involved with that arm. Very closely. It's nice we're all being polite and that he's talking to us but for heaven's sake. Stay skeptical. He actually hasn't said anything that hasn't been said before: vague promises.

Marketing is normally not part of damage control until a new image has to be put out, but it is, as you said, closely related.

By the way, did anyone else notice the tremendous shift the thread took? It went from everyone analyzing EA/Bioware's PR tactics and thanking atghunter to thanking Jarrett. All the priase and momentum went from one guy to another in a matter of minutes. Be careful.

Exactly!  atghunter just warned of this stuff and lo and behold.

People are falling for it hook, line, and sinker....

[HenchxNarf]

Can0fCorn wrote...

Jarrett, you are more than welcome to deny my following statement, (and personally, I'll believe it) but I don't believe you speak for EA's PR department. Therefore, everyone reading this thread should read and interpret Jarrett's responses with such insight. "Take it with a grain of salt" if you will.

Well, he's not PR for one thing. He's marketing, a whole other part of the company.

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 17 mars 2012 - 07:37 .

[raptorly]

OP is awesome. Great insight.

TL;DR: Hold the line!

[Moirai]

I have to say that the life long cynic in me sees Jarrett's posts in here as simply a Bioware PR ploy to garner sympathy and make us feel bad for being so nasty to the 'little guys' that have worked so hard to give us a great game.

The point is though, we're not having a go at the 'little guys'. It's the 'big guys' who call the shots that we're annoyed with. Primarily, the ones who made the decision to go with these 'endings'.

Jarrett, I appreciate you and your colleagues are upset at the fan reaction to ME3's endings, but this is business, and we are customers who have been short changed on a product that your company has sold us. True, there will always be the idiots who can contribute nothing but swear words and bile. But it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of us have a legitimate complaint against the company you work for.

If you're upset, then perhaps it would be worth raising that issue internally, so that the 'big guys' can see that their decisions are affecting a lot more than just Bioware's customer base.

Modifié par Moirai, 17 mars 2012 - 07:37 .

[Peete]

VerdantSF wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

By the way, did anyone else notice the tremendous shift the thread took? It went from everyone analyzing EA/Bioware's PR tactics and thanking atghunter to thanking Jarrett. All the priase and momentum went from one guy to another in a matter of minutes. Be careful.

This.

Aye. I just realised this as well.

There was  at work here. 

[Lord Costantino]

Hold the Line and remember Marauder Shields

[Miles_E]

redknight38 wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

By the way, did anyone else notice the tremendous shift the thread took? It went from everyone analyzing EA/Bioware's PR tactics and thanking atghunter to thanking Jarrett. All the priase and momentum went from one guy to another in a matter of minutes. Be careful.

I know! It's brilliant! Well played, Bioware, well played. It's kind of gruesomely fun to watch.

Is it bad to think we were too easily swayed?

[vigna]

No doubt bring some disbelief back in here......hold the line for real.

[Neural73]

To me, Casey's statement did more harm than good, for a simple reason among many others:

- It absolutely disregarded the essential condition of existence for any literary based creative work, "Good writing". It aknowledged that they do not have the faintest idea on how important logical coherence is for a good story, even more on an expanded universe with the variety, richness, subtelty and sci-fi grounded concepts of the Mass Effect Universe.

The horrible ending they managed to deliver, did nothing more than to implode every single achievement brought on by everyone who played with passion the entire trilogy, all in just 10 minutes of near-braindead "writing". It strikes me that Casey did not really understand, not for a single second, the true motives behind all of this fan outrage, implicitly letting out the idea that we are whining for some happy ending (or endings) that do not have place in the sterile lookup tables bioware writers apparently use for determining the outcome of a generic sci- fi epic story. Mass Effect is not generic, cannot be dealt with the lightheadedness most of the modern video game productions almost demand production values wise.

With all this, all i learned is that, if all this sad situation does not turn out to be an ingenious play orchestrated to bring the concept of indoctrination to the players in an unprecedented fashion, as unfortunately it seems not to be the case, Bioware cannot be trusted as a quality content production company, because they cannot even deliver that 0.1% of high quality, logically coherent, writing material needed to conclude an otherwise brilliant sci-fi epic trilogy. And, if that grim outcome is inevitable, and Bioware came up with those miserable endings out of nothing, it is terribly ironic that all the randomly scattered clues on the plot, regarding "The Indoctrination theory", so elegantly came together with uncommon logic, and weren´t/won´t be integrated by Bioware in a humble but noble effort to correct a huge set of mistakes that ruined a fantastic trilogy.

I will wait some more time for a graceful exit from this embarrassing situation, but if Bioware keeps its stance and kills the saga this way, not only i will never ever buy anything from them, DLC or new IP, but i will take my 15 EA games and sell them on Ebay for $1.

Modifié par Neural73, 17 mars 2012 - 07:41 .

[SSV Enterprise]

Dark Wyn wrote...

Sadly atm a good portion aren't being respectful at all.
I wouldn't blame any of the Bioware folks for avoiding us now, what with some out there trying to rip their heads off.  I don't like the endings any more than everyone else, but tearing into guys like Jarrett won't help us one bit.  It'll only hurt us.  Is that what we want?  NO.
Be Civil, BE RESPECTFUL or have only ourselves to blame when nothing gets fixed.
I KNOW we can do it.  But only if we do it in the right way.

I can't echo this strongly enough.  The last thing we want is for BioWare to be mad back at us because we keep insulting them and treating them like crap.  I don't think that BioWare was evil or malicious when they made the ending, just misguided.  I still treat them with respect.

[Impulse and Compulse]

Amen to this guy, he really knows what he's talking about.

The thing that chilled me the most is the strategy of how to profit off of it. It seems very likely that EA will do a paid dlc for the ending, and I personally feel like having to pay to fix a problem in a game is a disgrace.

[Dustin1280]

I appreciate Jarrett Lee making an appearance and talking to us like a real person. He wasn't give us a strict PR controlled answer (or if he was, it was well hidden) and it means a lot more then just about any response up to this point I have seen.

It doesn't change the fact that the ending has made me furious and I have cancelled my SWTOR account and will not buy another bioware thing again unless this gets resolved.

[rickelmo]

Still being cautious here.

[vigna]

Miles_E wrote...

redknight38 wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

By the way, did anyone else notice the tremendous shift the thread took? It went from everyone analyzing EA/Bioware's PR tactics and thanking atghunter to thanking Jarrett. All the priase and momentum went from one guy to another in a matter of minutes. Be careful.

I know! It's brilliant! Well played, Bioware, well played. It's kind of gruesomely fun to watch.

Is it bad to think we were too easily swayed?

being nice and being swayed are two different things. Don't b emean but don't believe crap until we see something tangeable.......as in  stats on our ending findings, etc. whatever.....i wanna see them say all DLC is on hold or something until this is fixed. something tangeable...

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Mad respect for you agthunter thank you

[Strife17O7]

Yeah...at this point, my faith in Bioware/EA has been fairly soundly broken, and I'd previously considered myself one of the die-hard fan core group. Until I see distinct and recognizable change in this matter, I have no intention of investing any of my own resources in anything else of theirs.

Modifié par Strife17O7, 17 mars 2012 - 07:41 .

[kidbd15]

Hi Jarrett, thanks for responding. I have a couple questions as well:
what is your personal opinion about the fan reaction, and do you believe our discontent is sound? Do you understand the problems with the ending?
Thanks.

[Laughing_Man]

ThePasserby wrote...

As someone upthread mentioned, based on the Final Hours app, the clueless writers truly believed that the ending they gave us would be well-received and earned them praises for being artistic and generate discussions and speculations. As such, they have no spare unused footage that they can cobble together to come up with a proper alternate ending.

They would have to write it from scratch, get the animation team involved, and recall the voice actors - Mark Meer, Jennifer Hale, Tricia Helfer, Seth Green and all the other voice actors of your squad. It will cost them money, time and possibly putting other planned projects on hold.

So they are likely trying to wait out the storm and hope that they could get away with not having to re-write the ending as it will cost them too much. And even if they decided that the best course of action, one which minimises future loss of revenue, is to make a new ending, it will be months before it can be ready.

It's gonna be a long night.

Indeed, I see your point.
But the thing is, they should have done their homework BEFORE the fact, and not after it all came crashing down.
Also, plot aside, there is no reason for half assed scenes and clear plot holes, even if you think that your plot ending is the best that was ever writen.

[darkshadow136]

Nostradamoose wrote...

darkshadow136 wrote...

Although some of the PR and comments coming from people like Casey, I wouldn't trust if my life depended on it. Jarrett seems to be sincere. I have seen calming tactics like this done during the DA2 negativity. But I do feel that Bioware may see at this point the ME3 ending discontent is something very serious, and they may actually be listening and will to make it right if we all keep calm heads and discuss it and share feedback on how to make it right.

I agree that many times video and even interviews for such PR events are scheduled weeks and months in advance. Not to mention the company spends money in promoting and building these events. So in saying that, a company can't just switch off everything they have going on with a product, even when there is major issues with it.

The best they can do is follow through with the planned events with temperance, knowing that there is much they need to do to make the game a real success, by applying a fix to the game after receiving the proper feedback and input, so they can do it right. What is the point of slapping together an ending DLC or patch that again falls short of a fitting ending to the trilogy. It is better that Bioware gets the feedback and input, so then they come up with something Glorious.

100% agree with you.

I admit mellowing because I do believe the guy.

And remember, none of us would care this much about the ending if the whole game sucked. We want a new ending, an ending that makes sense with the great opus Bioware offered us.


ME3 is still a great game, we have to realise itm day 1 dlcs and ending might have frustrated us (They did frustrate me a lot) but do remember that not all hope is lost.


Bioware still remains Bioware, ZE franchise of EA that listens the most to its customers. This is why I will not encourage any boycott of future products but will encourage the improvement of the ME3.


Improve ME 3 Bioware! Fans,Hold the line!

We have to be reasonable but we have to hold our own. Let's not fall in personnal attacks, these guys made a huge mistake but it still remains a stellar work for all 3 games.

We criticize because we care about Bioware in some way. Please, I beg you, do remember that.

(And eh, no, I don't work for Bioware... if ever some idiot tries to blame me that way... And yes, I believe we deserve an ending that makes sense!)

Thanks I just wanted peple to undersand, that just because there may be some rotten apples, it does not mean the whole basket of them are rotten. Communication is going to be the road to change. Although I still have a skeptical eye till we get some guarentees from Biowaree that a fix is coming. Part of getting that fix is talking with them, and we wanted them to break the silence, so let's talk to them and give them the feedback, and what we want. 

If it's just talk to calm us we will find out in a short amount of time when they don't come forth with any plans of fixing the endings. Until that time open diologue is the best answer.

Modifié par darkshadow136, 17 mars 2012 - 07:46 .

[Nostradamoose]

Bachuck wrote...

redknight38 wrote...

People, he's in marketing. THAT'S THE PR DEPARTMENT. At the very least, it's closely involved with that arm. Very closely. It's nice we're all being polite and that he's talking to us but for heaven's sake. Stay skeptical. He actually hasn't said anything that hasn't been said before: vague promises.

Marketing is normally not part of damage control until a new image has to be put out, but it is, as you said, closely related.

By the way, did anyone else notice the tremendous shift the thread took? It went from everyone analyzing EA/Bioware's PR tactics and thanking atghunter to thanking Jarrett. All the priase and momentum went from one guy to another in a matter of minutes. Be careful.

No, I've always thanked Bioware for this stellar game and I do appreciate the time that Jarrett gave us. However, it does not make me forget about the ****ty ending they gave us.

I like Bioware, I like how Jarrett came and answered us on his own free time, but I'm still left wanting for the quality a studio like Bioware should have been able to give us in the first time.


But yea, I'll thank Bioware anytime, they did GREAT! We have to remember this.

But we also have to remember that they screwed up in some parts and that we have to keep them to their word and accompany them while they fix their mess. This does not mean trashing them whenever they talk. I'll stand by Bioware, but, moreover, I'll stand by myself as well if they do not fix this. We have to be relentless in our demarch, but we also have to be somewhat forgiving as well.

Those people gave their own time to make us enjoy it all and although we paid for it, we still have to remain thankful for what those guys did RIGHT.

Have common sense, see what is good and thank them for it, see what is bad and criticize them for it. Be FAIR. This is all I ask.

[Naked David]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Naked David wrote...

If this was all part of the plan, I'm ashamed of where the gaming industry is going. If it is really that unprofitable to make game that you need to advertise DLC after the credits and pull a stunt like this to make more money... Even to charge MS points for packs on multiplayer(Optional)... Nickel and diming us every step of the way. Still, WAYYYYY better than capcom making you pay $20 to unock 12 characters that are already on the disk 3 months down the road... :| Wheres Operation Take Back Street Fighter X Tekken? So yes, it could be worse.

I can't really speculate on or quantify where their needs for profit lie or whether it's just EA's greed out of control. A lot of companies have been trying to increase the the $60 base price of games for years and DLC has always been part of that but this is the boldest push and shove move in that direction with "From Ashes" not included in the regular edition and coming at a pricetag of $10 and I am quite confident this was intended to replicate Fallout 3's success with the end changing DLC.

Now to be fair the world economy is fluctuating wildly and EA has quite a lot of crappy games under their belt so they could be desperate and viewing this as a gold mine.....but overcompensating too much. Time will tell, all we can do is persist and wait but right now I just want the ending fixed as soon as possible....not too concerned about price.

I bought ME2 on 360 and PS3 and all related DLC. I bought the ME3 Collectors Edition for both as well. (Since I have files on both that I wish to play) But I haven't opened my PS3 one cause the endings will be the exact same. I'll return it 100%, especially since I can change the class of my imported file. Who cares if you saved the Rachni Queen or not if you just get a drone icon on your assets for the crucible. I'll take the Krogan Squad all day.

[Lugaidster]

Why does the post say BW?

[Bunzmaster]

Bachuck wrote...

Does that mean you were part of the team that came up with the "Take Earth Back" campaign knowing full well how the game ended?

I noticed that too while gazing sadly at my CE box.

"Take earth back"?!? I didn't take s*** back!!

Can I take this game back?

[HenchxNarf]

Bunzmaster wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

Does that mean you were part of the team that came up with the "Take Earth Back" campaign knowing full well how the game ended?

I noticed that too while gazing sadly at my CE box.

"Take earth back"?!? I didn't take s*** back!!

Can I take this game back?

Oh boy.