9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Hydralysk]

Reiku0 wrote...

Thing is, almost everyone is seeing EA and BW as single entities. When in actuality, there ARE people who might have opposed the ending we were stuck with. As someone said earlier the collaboration won, or majority ruled. Jarrett might actually be one of those people. Then again, he also has not sad anything we haven't heard already. I'm conflicted. I want to believe he is one of the few who will work with us, but he's done nothing to prove his intentions. Being polite does not mean support.

No but I think of it like what Shepard said to Anderson in ME2 when the council reinstated his Spectre status.

Anderson: You know it's just symbolic right? They won't actually help you.

Shepard: Even if they don't help, we might as well stay on good terms.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 17 mars 2012 - 08:00 .

[Peete]

Bachuck wrote...

Miles_E wrote...

redknight38 wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

By the way, did anyone else notice the tremendous shift the thread took? It went from everyone analyzing EA/Bioware's PR tactics and thanking atghunter to thanking Jarrett. All the priase and momentum went from one guy to another in a matter of minutes. Be careful.

I know! It's brilliant! Well played, Bioware, well played. It's kind of gruesomely fun to watch.

Is it bad to think we were too easily swayed?

Yes.

No offense or disrespect is meant to anyone by what I'm about to say, but I think everyone is so desperate for a response, any response, from Bioware that you guys will accept anything they throw at you right now. Consider this, I'm the guy who started this thread so that my fellow ME fans could see atghunter's post and get some enlightenment from it and I was just attacked for being mean when all I did was ask a question.

Think about that for a second. Before Jarrett came in here, atghunter and I were being thanked for our efforts. Jarrett walks in and in a flash, atghunter was forgotten and I was viewed as a bad guy. It happened so effortlessly too.

We must remain civil and polite, but we should also ask questions when we're given the chance. If ever a true dialogue is opened between the fans and Bioware, it won't be with the employees from marketing (no offense meant Jarrett). His divison marketed the game. They'll have ZERO say in how to go about fixing it. Does that mean we can't talk with him? Of course not, that'd be ridiculous, but don't be so eager for crumbs that you cross that line.

Everyone keeps saying "Hold the line" but to truly do that, you must band together and not attack each other when you're given the tiniest shred of attention from the company because if you do, that line won't hold long. Treat others as you want to be treated (with respect and diginity), but remember, a game is being played right now and you all are the players.

Btw, if anyone didn't notice, my question was never answered.

Fanboy instincts: they're still too deeply embedded in us.

Modifié par Peete, 17 mars 2012 - 08:00 .

[Meltemph]

Because that theory is worse than the actual ending.

WAT? indoctrination/whateveryouwanacallit that is similar, is better then what we have right now? 0_o Really, that is what you think? Unless you are happy with the ending, I dont see how you could think that. There is literally MORE backing indoctrination up then backing up the actual ending and you are saying it is worse? Umm, I guess all I have for that is, I disagree.

Modifié par Meltemph, 17 mars 2012 - 08:03 .

[Lena Grozi]

 Like all of us in Europe, I got my game on 9th and by then I've already heard of displeased fans. I thought: I'll wait until I've finished my game before I read anything with spoilers, and if the complains are simply about Shepard and his/her love interest not getting married, then I'll just laugh about silly protesters. But then there I was, watching the final scene. It basically begged to be re-loaded and re-played, so that I could take each "door" once and see what happens. Then it was over and I sat there for a while, thinking. I tried to justify what I saw, I tried to reason with myself. But twenty minutes later I was on these forums, read some comments and realized: I agree with the protesters. There is so much wrong with the ending, I cannot justify it. 
I'm writing a dissertation about immersion tactics in Dragon Age and Mass Effect series. As a scientist, I should lean back and watch all of this unfold and probably fold back, but as a devoted fan who spent lots of money on both franchises, I can's simply watch and take notes. I don't like the games because I write a dissertation about them. I chose my dissertation topic because I love the games so much. And right now, when something new happens every hour, I take the liberty of simply being a devoted fan who feels like she'd been slapped in her face. 

altghunter wrote: 2) determining if we can make money off of fixing it. 

First of all, thank you for joining the movement with your wonderful input. We need to be taken seriously, and you're giving us a chance here. 
I just wanted to add that this point is the turning point of this whole campain. We want a new ending, and if BioWare announces a DLC that does that for us, we will pay for it. How could we resist? Right now we are practically begging the company to let us give them more money. I rather wish they started working on that as soon as possible, while we're still very passionate.
This said, (as I'm not a very outspoken person) I want to add my voice to the community and confirm: 
Hold the line!

[Area42T]

Moirai wrote...
If you're upset, then perhaps it would be worth raising that issue internally, so that the 'big guys' can see that their decisions are affecting a lot more than just Bioware's customer base.

Knowing EA, they'd fire him for that.

[Auralius Carolus]

This is excellent: the community is acknowledging a strategic mind. Whether it be a grassroots social/political/economic movement or an actual militia, if your ranks are in flux, you are vulnerable regardless of the numbers; at best, you won't achieve your goals.

Calm, determined and intellegent, the time approaches where holding the line is not enough, we must rebound and counter. If they bluff, don't just mock it, dissect it and call it for what it is. If they down play our concerns or numbers, let them know their very attention to us condradicts these claims. If they ask for our input, then give it to them and let them know they will be respected and rewarded for working with us, just as truly as they will be turned on for rejecting us. Keep calling the good shots people.

[dantesfire10]

Lena Grozi wrote...

 Like all of us in Europe, I got my game on 9th and by then I've already heard of displeased fans. I thought: I'll wait until I've finished my game before I read anything with spoilers, and if the complains are simply about Shepard and his/her love interest not getting married, then I'll just laugh about silly protesters. But then there I was, watching the final scene. It basically begged to be re-loaded and re-played, so that I could take each "door" once and see what happens. Then it was over and I sat there for a while, thinking. I tried to justify what I saw, I tried to reason with myself. But twenty minutes later I was on these forums, read some comments and realized: I agree with the protesters. There is so much wrong with the ending, I cannot justify it. 

except from being from america, this was my experience to a tee. not even kidding.

[vigna]

redknight38 wrote...

J.H. Christ, I will say it again.

They're being deliberatley vague as a tactic, of course, so if you want them to stop being vague-- start asking specifics.

For instance, they say they are listening to your concerns and your issues with the ending. They will get a deluge of half-formed responses.

So how about you ask them specifics. Okay-- so what can be changed? How hard is it to completely overhaul the ending, coding-wise? When at the ending can it be changed? At what scene? How expensive will this process be? How realistic is it to expect voice talent?

In this way you drive home the fact that you have realistic expectations and coherent ones. That way you force them to give you specifics and can tailor your message to specifics. It will also, incidentally, give you a realistic idea of what to expect. If they answer with vaguaries, it will be a good idea that the Bioware team is not really thinking about this.

However-- I could be wrong, this would be bargaining and they might use it to sway people into realizing it is impossible. I defer to more knowledgeable heads here.

And I also have been saying we need to initiate some sort of thread that creates a consensus of our exact top problems . we have so many.  Honestly, they need to tell us what is  "realistic" as far as programming as you say, but we probably need to realize they won't be calling in every single VA again. etc.  It's a weird precedent if they cave.....

[Xandax]

Pharae wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Im the senior marketing guy....one of them. Have been for the whole franchise really. I can't tell if your question is serious or if yer messing with me  the fan reaction is difficult to watch, after all the hard work basically. I'm not a moderator really, just an employee.

I just wanted to say that regardless of the fact that I did really dislike the endings, I do appreciate that you are taking the time and effort to reply to fans and to try and clarify the situation. I like that you're not doing the PR spin thing and are actually talking to us. I know you're under no obligation to change anything really, but the fact that you are at least taking the time to listen to fans makes me feel a glimmer of hope. 

I'm not gonna let up or anything, but thanks for taking the time. 

 Not doing the PR spin? Really? What was clarified? 

[Moirai]

vigna wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

I dont know why they even are acting like this is the ending they wanted, whether wanted to or not... Why not just take the indoctrinated theory(or something similar) and run with it... Nobody would be the wiser and teh casual fan who liked the ending or the hardcore fan that liked the ending, probbly wouldn't be near as loud. Honestly, I do not get it, there was a theory literally staring them in the face on this board that they could run with and they decide to essentially let the cat out of the bag.

who care if not everyone liked the idea, it was obvious people wanted a definitive resolution, there was no reason if they really are "taking feedback" to just go with this idea and then give those who wanted a resolution everything in the DLC/expansion. Honestly... am I alone in this in thinking this could have saved them a massive headache? You get DLC money and everyone talks about how you made a risky dance with the ending to impress people.

I am really scratching my head right now.

honestly all they know is people hate the ending. People hate it for a boatload of different reasons. they need to figure out the most common reasons --other than it sucked. this can take some time. But honestly when they do or we do-- if get together on it ourselves they can get to work on it. We should be creating polls and threads ourselves about teh top 3 things to change about teh end. they can't change everything and they can't add everything that we want. There will need to be a consensus that they and we can deal with.

Point is it has already been figured out and there are threads discussing it. They keep getting lost amongst the general discussion though.

Here's one right here:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9851623/1

[LoneSpartan08]

Sorry to say it, but i don't like the endings, doesn't mean the other two ME's were bad at all because they were brilliant, helped me take my mind off some... difficult times. ME3 was pretty damn good, i loved it, it was just the ending that was difficult to digest. If it can be... altered i'd like that.

On the subject of Jarrett Lee, this may be the first time i have posted but i've been around since ME1 and he is an honest guy and has every right to comment here without feeling uncomfortable. If he sees this then damn fine work and take it easy, have a Corona and lime on me.

[moteh]

I have to back Bioware, a lot of this stuff is exactly the type of stuff I expect during the launch window for a new game, the fact some people are spinning it to be some conspiracy is just sad. Keep pushing about the endings, I think our concerns on that must be met. But you can't simply vilify an entire company because of the endings, especially when they are starting discussion on them with us.

[HenchxNarf]

TheRedVipress wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

I dont know why they even are acting like this is the ending they wanted, whether wanted to or not... Why not just take the indoctrinated theory(or something similar) and run with it... Nobody would be the wiser and teh casual fan who liked the ending or the hardcore fan that liked the ending, probbly wouldn't be near as loud. Honestly, I do not get it, there was a theory literally staring them in the face on this board that they could run with and they decide to essentially let the cat out of the bag.

who care if not everyone liked the idea, it was obvious people wanted a definitive resolution, there was no reason if they really are "taking feedback" to just go with this idea and then give those who wanted a resolution everything in the DLC/expansion. Honestly... am I alone in this in thinking this could have saved them a massive headache? You get DLC money and everyone talks about how you made a risky dance with the ending to impress people.

I am really scratching my head right now.

They probably did think of that ending and decided they didn't want to use it. I'm pretty sure they ran all senerios through.

Nobody can "ran all senerios", our cirrent situation is the best proof for that.

Just because you didn't like what they chose, it doesn't mean they didn't think of everything.

[Miles_E]

Bachuck wrote...

Miles_E wrote...

redknight38 wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

By the way, did anyone else notice the tremendous shift the thread took? It went from everyone analyzing EA/Bioware's PR tactics and thanking atghunter to thanking Jarrett. All the priase and momentum went from one guy to another in a matter of minutes. Be careful.

I know! It's brilliant! Well played, Bioware, well played. It's kind of gruesomely fun to watch.

Is it bad to think we were too easily swayed?

Yes.

No offense or disrespect is meant to anyone by what I'm about to say, but I think everyone is so desperate for a response, any response, from Bioware that you guys will accept anything they throw at you right now. Consider this, I'm the guy who started this thread so that my fellow ME fans could see atghunter's post and get some enlightenment from it and I was just attacked for being mean when all I did was ask a question.

Think about that for a second. Before Jarrett came in here, atghunter and I were being thanked for our efforts. Jarrett walks in and in a flash, atghunter was forgotten and I was viewed as a bad guy. It happened so effortlessly too.

We must remain civil and polite, but we should also ask questions when we're given the chance. If ever a true dialogue is opened between the fans and Bioware, it won't be with the employees from marketing (no offense meant Jarrett). His divison marketed the game. They'll have ZERO say in how to go about fixing it. Does that mean we can't talk with him? Of course not, that'd be ridiculous, but don't be so eager for crumbs that you cross that line.

Everyone keeps saying "Hold the line" but to truly do that, you must band together and not attack each other when you're given the tiniest shred of attention from the company because if you do, that line won't hold long. Treat others as you want to be treated (with respect and diginity), but remember, a game is being played right now and you all are the players.

Btw, if anyone didn't notice, my question was never answered.

I see the error of my ways Bachuck, I was thinking a bit too white-and-black I think. If I look down on fellow line holders for speaking with Lee, what kind of partner am I?

This game you speak of has me on edge, but I'll try not to go overboard on it.

[Fapmaster5000]

Personally, I agree with the guy asking for us to take the offensive in questions. Ask pointed (polite) questions in the twitter feeds, on the boards. Ask directly, "What can be changed?", "What is reasonable to expect as a different ending?" Force them to give true answers. This wiffle-waffle is helping no one.

[Moirai]

Area42T wrote...

Moirai wrote...
If you're upset, then perhaps it would be worth raising that issue internally, so that the 'big guys' can see that their decisions are affecting a lot more than just Bioware's customer base.

Knowing EA, they'd fire him for that.

Probably. But it had to be said anyway.

[Veginator]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Peete wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...


There's no voodoo at work here - I'm just sitting on my couch reading this on my iPad, it has been a difficult week, I'm very tired.

Mr. Lee
You mentioned it's been a difficult week. Out of curiosity, why has it been a difficult week?

Again out of curiosity, and if you don't mind me asking are you a (just) forum moderater or one of the developers?

Im the senior marketing guy....one of them. Have been for the whole franchise really. I can't tell if your question is serious or if yer messing with me  the fan reaction is difficult to watch, after all the hard work basically. I'm not a moderator really, just an employee.

I understand it's probably hard to watch how we're reacting to the franchise now, but look at it from our perspective.  We each have our own individual stories and connections with the franchise and it's very painful for us.

A little information about myself.  I'm an adult in his very late 20's.  I suffer from a chronic case of major depression and an anxiety disorder.  I've been clinically diagnosed with these.  One of my major outlets to relieve this condition has been to escape reality through videogames.  This treatment, along with proper medication and therapy, has allowed me to live a relatively normal and fulfilling life.  You cannot imagine the amount of joy that the Mass Effect games have brought to my life.  I've read all the comics and books multiple times, the games I've had playthroughs in the double digits.  I own multiple copies of every version of the game.  Mass Effect is very dear to me.

So imagine the absolute horror for somebody such as myself when confronted with an ending that in my mind ruined the entire series.  The state of despair I felt echoed into my real life and I've been physically sick for the past week.  It has affected my standard of living, my performance at my job, and my social life.  I've sank into the worst depression state I've been in for years.  The last time I was in a state like this I actually turned myself in as a suicide risk (don't worry, I'm not going to do anything, I have educated myself on when to seek emergency help). I am going to have to alter my lifestyle because to be honest I don't feel like playing any videogames anymore, and that is troublesome because previously that had been a very effective form of treatment for me.  I hope this proves to be a temporary issue, but I've never experienced anything quite like this before so I'm really not quite certain how to proceed.  I'll likely have to discuss that with my therapist.  But that's another matter I'll have to deal with myself.

Regardless, I still have hope.  The current situation has permanently soured my impression of Mass Effect 3 because I will always remember my first experience as I would remember being in a brutal car accident on the way home from a joyous occassion or holiday.  Something that will always taint what should be a happy memory.  But it is not too late to fix it.  Unlike a car accident, real lives have not been lost forever.  Mass Effect is still a work of fiction and can be changed at will.  I honestly hope the folks at Bioware do the right thing and give us a new ending.  Anything less will be hollow and still tainted because I'll still know that it ends up at the same destination.  I understand the realities of capitalism and the need to please investors, and I hope that if that is a major factor in the decision making process that it can be turned into a profitable situation for your organization through the creation of a DLC ending to sell us.  I'd happily pay whatever cost of such a pack as the peace of mind afforded to me through it would be well worth the price of admission.

In closing I hope I can bring myself to participate in the event being held this weekend, but I just find it difficult to play the game as I feel physically sick when I look at the game now.  It's a very sad situation as I thought the rest of the game was entirely brilliant, and while I played through the first games at least a dozen times through, I can't foresee myself ever playing through Mass Effect 3 again without some changes to the ending.

[Bunzmaster]

Hold the line everyone!

The ME series deserves better than what BW/EA delivered.

[N7_Sniper91]

All of you keep thanking Jarret Lee, but you do realize that he hasn't told us anything we haven't already been told by Casey and a few others, right? Aside from just vaguely acknowledging the problem(Which has already been done by other BW staff), we haven't been given a straight 'yes or no' answer at all.

We're still getting the spin around, people.

I'd suggest you save the 'thanks' for when we actually get a REAL answer from Jarret(Or others), not same PR-spin that's been going on all this week.

Modifié par N7_Sniper91, 17 mars 2012 - 08:09 .

[Xandax]

moteh wrote...

I have to back Bioware, a lot of this stuff is exactly the type of stuff I expect during the launch window for a new game, the fact some people are spinning it to be some conspiracy is just sad. Keep pushing about the endings, I think our concerns on that must be met. But you can't simply vilify an entire company because of the endings, especially when they are starting discussion on them with us.

There's been no starting discussion, so to speak.
There's been 'Oh, wait and see'.

[Militarized]

Peete wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

Miles_E wrote...

redknight38 wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

By the way, did anyone else notice the tremendous shift the thread took? It went from everyone analyzing EA/Bioware's PR tactics and thanking atghunter to thanking Jarrett. All the priase and momentum went from one guy to another in a matter of minutes. Be careful.

I know! It's brilliant! Well played, Bioware, well played. It's kind of gruesomely fun to watch.

Is it bad to think we were too easily swayed?

Yes.

No offense or disrespect is meant to anyone by what I'm about to say, but I think everyone is so desperate for a response, any response, from Bioware that you guys will accept anything they throw at you right now. Consider this, I'm the guy who started this thread so that my fellow ME fans could see atghunter's post and get some enlightenment from it and I was just attacked for being mean when all I did was ask a question.

Think about that for a second. Before Jarrett came in here, atghunter and I were being thanked for our efforts. Jarrett walks in and in a flash, atghunter was forgotten and I was viewed as a bad guy. It happened so effortlessly too.

We must remain civil and polite, but we should also ask questions when we're given the chance. If ever a true dialogue is opened between the fans and Bioware, it won't be with the employees from marketing (no offense meant Jarrett). His divison marketed the game. They'll have ZERO say in how to go about fixing it. Does that mean we can't talk with him? Of course not, that'd be ridiculous, but don't be so eager for crumbs that you cross that line.

Everyone keeps saying "Hold the line" but to truly do that, you must band together and not attack each other when you're given the tiniest shred of attention from the company because if you do, that line won't hold long. Treat others as you want to be treated (with respect and diginity), but remember, a game is being played right now and you all are the players.

Btw, if anyone didn't notice, my question was never answered.

Fanboy instincts: they're still too deeply embedded in us.

Who said you were the bad guy? They're a fool, you gave us information and information is power. People are, again, just being emotional but they will calm down again and realize you're correct. 

[Fapmaster5000]

moteh wrote...

I have to back Bioware, a lot of this stuff is exactly the type of stuff I expect during the launch window for a new game, the fact some people are spinning it to be some conspiracy is just sad. Keep pushing about the endings, I think our concerns on that must be met. But you can't simply vilify an entire company because of the endings, especially when they are starting discussion on them with us.

Here's the thing... they HAVEN'T started discussing them, not truly, not the way you mean.  They've obsfucated, they've smokescreened, and they've shifted, but they haven't admitted ANY fault in the endings, much less "we're willing to change them".

Until we get that comittment, "We will change the endings", there is no discussion, there is only spin, designed to make us give up and accept the endings.

This isn't to say that they're evil.  Far from it.  I imagine a lot of them are feeling pretty confused and hurt right now at the bombing of their baby.  We need to stay on track, force them to look into the heart of the matter, and FIX IT.  I feel bad for them, as people, sure.  But this should NEVER have left focus groups, or even the draft table.  The only way forward is fixing the endings (or losing lots of patrons), and to do that, we need to HOLD THE LINE.

[Lestatman]

It wouldn't suprise me if they release a wep/armor dlc in the next 2 wks and keep quiet hoping the storm will pass over. I noticed this tatic by them a few times which at this moment leaves me sad that there is no way in hell they are going to make and release an ending dlc and that's why I cancelled my swtor account last night. Who knows maybe in the end I'll be wrong and I'll be gladly wrong and take the flak for it but personally I've had enough of them and I'll wait for Guild Wars 2, Dragons Dogma etc coming out this year and never touch another Bioware product again.

[Bachuck]

vigna wrote...

And I also have been saying we need to initiate some sort of thread that creates a consensus of our exact top problems . we have so many.  Honestly, they need to tell us what is  "realistic" as far as programming as you say, but we probably need to realize they won't be calling in every single VA again. etc.  It's a weird precedent if they cave.....

Voice work can actually be done over the internet. If Keith David is in LA, they can put him in a recording studio in LA and transfer the recording via the internet to the Bioware studios in Canada. He doesn't actually have to be flown back in.

[Novouto]

I'm still angry at BioWare, we all should still be.