9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Rouge Knight]

Holding the line.

[laughing sherpa girl]

Machines Are Us wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Thank you for giving a detailed and reasonable response. Sadly some people will see this as another marketting spin (even though what you said is perfectly logical and happens after all major games releases).

Well, lets face one fact. EA/Bioware has lost the faith and trust of a great many of its cusomers, and so, i'm afraid that anything said ( as opposed to doing ) is going to be held suspect. Its not that we hate you, but so many of us feel betrayed and lied too. That trust is going to have to be earned back, and it isnt going to be as easy as it was the first time.

[Silver5k]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

The fan reaction is difficult to watch, after all the hard work basically. I'm not a moderator really, just an employee.

What a week, eh? 

With posts like these, I'm gaining some faith that you Biowarians aren't as arrogant as you've been painted on here, and you've gained some more respect from me again.

But the ME trilogy cannot and may not end like this.

But I admit, this reaction over the week has been interesting - compared to that, my second playthrough of ME3 has been a chore. I've been tabbing out and onto here, to see if there's some glimmer of hope that this second playthrough might not end the way the first one did.

Completely irrational behavior ("Only a fool tries the same thing over and over expecting different results"), but the rest of your trilogy is just that good.

Sigh.

[Andur4]

I love reading this thread. Great info in how PR works and what's most likely going on in this situation.

[WhiteVV1ings]

Excellent thread and great insight.

Hold the line.

[o96o]

Everyone stay informed! Pass on the word, stop leaving positive feedback to help them manage the sh!t storm.

[Lyons6]

Hold the line

[XTiferethX]

Need a better ending so I can enjoy playing ME 3 again.

[Flipzide]

Great thread! This is helping me keep up with the events on BSN without having to sort through multiple threads with more than 50+ pages.

[Hylndur]

thank you for this thread

[nitefyre410]

Yeah they are, Casey statement was PR dump on the weekend. Now sense no one is at any other outlets to cover the reaction. Come Monday they hope it would blow over...

Oh little do they know.

[KeldorKatarn]

The same holds true here as in every negotiation. There are trained PR
people at work here. They are experts in double talk, delaying action and
deception here. I cannot speak in PR stuff here, but as a former
military I can say you this (and the PR guy from the first post will most
likely agree):

The only viable strategy for you guys is doing
exactly what the other side cannot handle: Keep the pressure up! DON'T fall in
line, don't respond to false offers of peace.

The strategic position is this. On your side you
have a vast military but still rather disorganized. On the other hand you have
a very well trained and organized but outnumbered army.

The other side is currently in the following
position: They are attacked on all fronts but still mostly disorganized so
they, being better trained, have been able to mostly hold the line for now.
They are also most likely experiencing the first signs of sales losses, of dropping
multiplayer counts and they have predictions on their tables of dropping DLC
sales. In military terms: They are experiencing attrition effects, they have
supply problems. The only viable strategy in that situation is: Keep your
forces together, make only very thought through moves, do as many delaying and
distracting moves as possible, because that's the only thing where you still
have the advantage: The enemy is unorganized and cannot yet strike as an
organized whole. If that were the case... bye, bye.

So what you guys have to do now is use YOUR
advantages and exploit their weaknesses. That means: Keep the pressure up and
increase it. Organize, do organized large scale strikes. They have NO way to
defend against those. The more organized you become, the more they will be able
to feel your numbers. They cannot defend against a full-blown strike. They can
only delay you and try to disrupt you. If you don't let them do that, you'll
win outright.

So the best way to achieve this is to organize
loud protests, organized, and well thought through. Also don't ever respond
positively to ANYTHING but your initial demands. Don't even think about
responding to "maybe"s or "let's talk"s. What you want is a
full surrender; NOTHING else. DON'T stop before they bow down and literally
talk to you on YOUR terms. YOU are the customers. Use that. This also means:
DON'T play the game, DON'T buy and DLCs unless they are EXACTLY what you want.
They will feel the dropping numbers, they have Origin. Many people didn't like
Origin, but now it is YOUR weapon. Don't play and the WILL see that. They do
have the statistics. The fewer people order anything, the fewer people use
origin the heavier you are threatening their supply lines.

Kill their supply lines while holding up the
pressure and you WILL win this. But DON'T ever give in. YOU have the upper
hand, DON'T let them take that away from you.

Also never become angry or uncivil, because that
is another one of their strategies. If you become an angry mob, they will be
able to sell you as such, gathering allies. You don't want them to be able to
do that. Think of this as a war between a rebel force with huge numbers and the
loyalist army of the head of state. If the head of state manages to picture you
in public opinion as an angry mob, as terrorists or whatever, they might be
getting help by powerful allies (read: the press). If however you remain civil,
fight a gallant war and voice your concerns in a reasonable way, then YOU might
be getting help and in the end the UN might intervene on your behalf (read
again: the press will force them to give in or lose a ****load of money).

Keep this up people. Don't take the pressure of.
The minute you do, they have won.


Edit: To Bioware:


Don't take this the wrong way. I truly love you
guys and I'm a huge fan. But this thing just won't fly. What you did here was
just bad judgment and I think the best way for you to handle this is to fix
this ASAP and maybe make some money with it (although if I were you, I'd be
real careful with that one).

You have achieved something here that is really
incredible. You should actually be proud of yourselves to some degree. If you
hadn't done a whole lot of things right, people wouldn't be here complaining.
They would sit at home and say "Who gives a sh*t!?"You have created a
franchise that is so wonderful and so loved that people actually DO care. All
you have to do now is make you that stays that way. And that will not be
achieved by PR bullsh*t by the books. It will be achieved by showing them that
this industry is not just about money and about sales counts and quarterly
reports but that it is still about wanting to give people a great time and
about making people happy with your creations.

Sorry I have to be against you guys this time. But
see it like this... this entire army that is kicking your nuts right now... if
you play things right you'll have all of them behind you, whenever you need
them, in the next war.

I'm really hoping this war will end in a way that
benefits both sides in the end.

So long...

Modifié par KeldorKatarn, 17 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[Spectre Impersonator]

Jarrett's always been fair and compared to most devs, so has everyone at Bioware. They deserve more respect, despite the poor ending. We're still all in this together.

[XTiferethX]

Hold the line

[Shinobu]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Thank you, Mr. Lee. You are a courageous man for coming down here and engaging with the fans. I'm sorry you guys are not getting the triumphant launch you worked so hard for. Please remember that most of us love the first 97% of the game and are gutted we can't enjoy the last 3%. Unfortunately, the ending has made me unable to enjoy the single- or multiplayer game (which is indeed really fun) so I won't be taking part in Operation Goliath.

I will try to be patient and hold the line. Have a good weekend.

[Brahlis]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...


So, I'm not gonna let up on your company, but I do hope you're able to get some rest. 

Thanks . Take care all. 

Thanks for the responses.

[Bluefuse]

JohnShepard12 wrote...

Jarrett's always been fair and compared to most devs, so has everyone at Bioware. They deserve more respect, despite the poor ending. We're still all in this together.

The game was brilliant, but leaving us on a questionable note leaves gamers out of the loop. The end to a trilogy? It's insulting to call that ending an end to your masterpiece. Even if they plan to continue it, they broke many people's hearts. They should have put more thought into that and delayed the game if they wanted to extend the game's ending.

[Sentr0]

sn... erhm holding the line

Modifié par Sentr0, 17 mars 2012 - 03:13 .

[Bluefuse]

Yes, I am HOLDING THE LINE.

[Darth Taurus]

Segurem a onda galera! Estamos nessa juntos e vamos ganhar!

Hold the line people! We are together in this and we'll win!

[Cobra's_back]

Half_Moon wrote...

People4Peace wrote...

Xandax wrote...

Sentr0 wrote...

MouseNo4 wrote...

I want what all you guys want. I want a better ending. But the fact is they wont give us a better or alternate ending. Ever. The sooner you guys just accept that the sooner this pointless thread(s) will stop clogging up the forums.

The endings are exactly how the writers envisioned them to be - perhaps displayed in different ways but essentially, the story is the same. No author will just accept a major alteration in THEIR story based on internet QQ.

If the company's survival is at stake they will do it...

I most certainly do not think Bioware's survival is at stake at all.

But it is perhaps the next major shift away from their traditional customers into the new segment they obviously want. And question then is - whether that new segment is more loyal or fickle than those of us who've been playing Bioware games for a decade.
And that in turn could mean a much lesser role for Bioware within the EA umbrealla which then in turn will mean a diminished roll in the industry as a large.

Loyality takes a long time to build up but can be ruined very fast; and for me - Bioware is at a turning point now. I followed them into DA2 while clearly seeing the flaws because of loyalty - will I follow them out of ME3? I'm doubtful right now.
And I'm sure I'm not alone in this aspect.

I completely agree. Many of us are in the exact same situation.

It also calls in to question Bioware's credibility and ability to deliver a satisfying conclusion to a game.

If they advertise a game with rich branching storylines where your decisions can be taken in wildy varying directions and then deliver something that is a total antithesis to that, then you being to lose faith in their brand.

How would you know their next game will be as advertised? As a consumer, can you believe that they'll be able deliver to you a satisfying experience? An experience with a conclusion that makes sense? Can you trust them to give that to you after the ending of Mass Effect 3?

I'm with you in this. I have loss trust in them. I wasn't looking for a sunny ending. I was looking for an ending that made sense.

The ending was confusing, clumsy and useless.

[julian08]

Interesting read. I don't know the first thing about PR, but I feel like this gave me some idea of what's going on at the moment. Thank you for posting this.

[WilliamDracul88]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

The same holds true here as in every negotiation. There are trained PR people at work here. They are experts in double talk, delaying action and deception here.

I cannot speak in PR stuff here, but as a former military I can say you this (and the PR guy from the first post will most likely agree):

The only viable strategy for you guys is doing exactly what the other side cannot handle: Keep the pressure up!
DON'T fall in line, don't respond to false offers of peace.

The strategic position is this. On your side you have a vast military but still rather disorganized. On the other hand you have a very well trained and organized but outnumbered army.

The other side is currently in the following position: They are attacked on all fronts but still mostly disorganized so they, being better trained, have been able to mostly hold the line for now. They are also most likely experiencing the first signs of sales losses, of dropping multiplayer counts and they have predictions on their tables of dropping DLC saled. In military terms: They are experiencing attrition effects, they have supply problems.
The only viable strategy in that situation is: Keep your forces together, make only very though though moves, do as many delaying and distracting moves as possible, because that's the only thing where you still have the advantage: The enemy is unorganized and cannot yet strike as an organized whole. If that were the case... bye bye.

So what you guys have to do now is use YOUR advantages and exploit their weaknesses. That means: Keep the pressure up and increase it. Organize, do organized large skale strikes. They have NO way to defend against those. The more organized you become, the more they will be able to feel your numbers. They cannot defend against a full-blown strike. They can only delay you and try to disrupt you. If you don't let them do that, you'll win outright.

So the best way to achieve this is to organize loud protests, organized, and well thought through. Also don't ever respond positively to ANYTHING but your initial demands. Don't even think about responding to "maybe"s or "let's talk". What you want is a full surrender. NOTHING else. DON'T stop before they bow down and literally talk to you on YOUR terms. YOU are the customers. Use that.
This also means: DON'T play the game, DON'T buy and DLCs unless they are EXACTLY what you want. They will feel the dropping numbers, they have Origin. Many people didn't like Origin, but now it is YOUR weapon. Don't play and the WILL see that. They do have the statistics. The fewer people order anything, the fewer people use origin the heavier you are threatening their supply lines.

Kill their supply lines while holding up the pressure and you WILL win this. But DON'T ever give in. YOU have the upper hand, DON'T let them take that away from you.

Also never become angry or uncivil. Because that is another one of their strategies. If you become an angry mob, they will be able to sell you as such, gathering allies. You don't want them to be able to do that.
Think of this as a war between a rebel force with huge numbers and the loyalist army of the head of state. If the head of state manages to picture you in public opinion as an angry mob, as terrorists or whatever, they might be getting help by powerful allies (read: the press). If however you remain civil, fight a gallant war and voice your concerns in a reasonable way, then YOU might be getting help and in the end the UN might intervene on your behalf (read again: the press will force them to give in or lose a ****load of money).

Keep this up people. Don't take the pressure of. The minute you do, they have won.

I loved this post. It's great to see such good analysis here.
Me, myself, IN THE SPANISH FLEET AND HOLDING THE LINE.

[QueenMirage]

Holding The Line. Trying to be patient and having faith this will be fixed.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

laughing sherpa girl wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Thank you for giving a detailed and reasonable response. Sadly some people will see this as another marketting spin (even though what you said is perfectly logical and happens after all major games releases).

Well, lets face one fact. EA/Bioware has lost the faith and trust of a great many of its cusomers, and so, i'm afraid that anything said ( as opposed to doing ) is going to be held suspect. Its not that we hate you, but so many of us feel betrayed and lied too. That trust is going to have to be earned back, and it isnt going to be as easy as it was the first time.

Well said.  the fact is until I see actions to make it right I can't trust Bioware.  I ppaid $80 for a game because months after they knew there were going to be the same three endings for everyone they told us there would be more then that.  So you will not see a dime of my money or get my trust untill you make it right. Right now everything you have said could have come out of the classic plybook or corporate spin. You want my trust and my money then you will have to take action and give me what you told me I was paying for.

Hold the line people as long as it takes.