9972 réponses à ce sujet

[CrazyRah]

laughing sherpa girl wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Thank you for giving a detailed and reasonable response. Sadly some people will see this as another marketting spin (even though what you said is perfectly logical and happens after all major games releases).

Well, lets face one fact. EA/Bioware has lost the faith and trust of a great many of its cusomers, and so, i'm afraid that anything said ( as opposed to doing ) is going to be held suspect. Its not that we hate you, but so many of us feel betrayed and lied too. That trust is going to have to be earned back, and it isnt going to be as easy as it was the first time.

Exactly. I can't trust anything any person from Bioware right now. So anything they say i won't trust and at best will consider as them trying to do something good but i still can't trust it. Right now words won't cut it for me but actions. When i see that they're serious then i might start to allow myself to trust them again but right now everything is damage control to me

[awwnuts07]

An "olive branch" was extended in the form of "ME 3 suggested changes feedback". Let's keep this thread near the top of the page so we are constantly reminded that talk is cheap. It's wonderful they want to hear opinions now, but let's see if there's going to be follow through on their part.

[nitefyre410]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

The same holds true here as in every negotiation. There are trained PR people at work here. They are experts in double talk, delaying action and deception here.

I cannot speak in PR stuff here, but as a former military I can say you this (and the PR guy from the first post will most likely agree):

The only viable strategy for you guys is doing exactly what the other side cannot handle: Keep the pressure up!
DON'T fall in line, don't respond to false offers of peace.

The strategic position is this. On your side you have a vast military but still rather disorganized. On the other hand you have a very well trained and organized but outnumbered army.

The other side is currently in the following position: They are attacked on all fronts but still mostly disorganized so they, being better trained, have been able to mostly hold the line for now. They are also most likely experiencing the first signs of sales losses, of dropping multiplayer counts and they have predictions on their tables of dropping DLC saled. In military terms: They are experiencing attrition effects, they have supply problems.
The only viable strategy in that situation is: Keep your forces together, make only very though though moves, do as many delaying and distracting moves as possible, because that's the only thing where you still have the advantage: The enemy is unorganized and cannot yet strike as an organized whole. If that were the case... bye bye.

So what you guys have to do now is use YOUR advantages and exploit their weaknesses. That means: Keep the pressure up and increase it. Organize, do organized large skale strikes. They have NO way to defend against those. The more organized you become, the more they will be able to feel your numbers. They cannot defend against a full-blown strike. They can only delay you and try to disrupt you. If you don't let them do that, you'll win outright.

So the best way to achieve this is to organize loud protests, organized, and well thought through. Also don't ever respond positively to ANYTHING but your initial demands. Don't even think about responding to "maybe"s or "let's talk". What you want is a full surrender. NOTHING else. DON'T stop before they bow down and literally talk to you on YOUR terms. YOU are the customers. Use that.
This also means: DON'T play the game, DON'T buy and DLCs unless they are EXACTLY what you want. They will feel the dropping numbers, they have Origin. Many people didn't like Origin, but now it is YOUR weapon. Don't play and the WILL see that. They do have the statistics. The fewer people order anything, the fewer people use origin the heavier you are threatening their supply lines.

Kill their supply lines while holding up the pressure and you WILL win this. But DON'T ever give in. YOU have the upper hand, DON'T let them take that away from you.

Also never become angry or uncivil. Because that is another one of their strategies. If you become an angry mob, they will be able to sell you as such, gathering allies. You don't want them to be able to do that.
Think of this as a war between a rebel force with huge numbers and the loyalist army of the head of state. If the head of state manages to picture you in public opinion as an angry mob, as terrorists or whatever, they might be getting help by powerful allies (read: the press). If however you remain civil, fight a gallant war and voice your concerns in a reasonable way, then YOU might be getting help and in the end the UN might intervene on your behalf (read again: the press will force them to give in or lose a ****load of money).

Keep this up people. Don't take the pressure of. The minute you do, they have won.

  

^ i like this human, he understand! 

[WilliamDracul88]

[AntiDave]

The way Bioware is responding to this was well analyzed by what the OP quoted.
It feels really bad to see Bioware treating people like this. Sad times for the Mss effect universe and by extension the science fiction genre in general.

Right now I feel a bit like the Southpark boys in this clip:


Hold the line people. Don't let them get away with this.

[musicaleCA]

cobnut wrote...

Wow, very interesting to read. You can easily forget that you're dealing with a company, not with individuals.

I would wish for a more personal level of communication between the fans and the developers. :/

That level of interaction is rare. I *think* CDProject Red does it (the gods...er...makers of The Witcher and The Witcher 2), but I know that Kerberos Productions does it. (Indie developer in Vancouver behind Sword of the Stars and Sword of the Stars 2.) The latter recently released SotS2 and it was a hot mess. Really. It was god-aweful. Bugs everywhere, things didn't work, the game was incomplete, and gamers were rightly pissed. What did they do? They offered everyone who bought the game a full, unconditional refund, and they made all planned DLC free to those who stayed, and all this happened very shortly after release date.

And you know what? They still have their fan base. The forums there are still active with people who are accepting of their honest answer "We made some huge mistakes, and we're fixing them right now. Stay tuned." Then they follwed-through with patches. The admitted the failure, offered every customer a fair shake at a refund, and fixed the game.

That's what true commitment to one's product looks like. I wish BW could show some commitment like that.

[nitefyre410]

AntiDave wrote...

The way Bioware is responding to this was well analyzed by what the OP quoted.
It feels really bad to see Bioware treating people like this. Sad times for the Mss effect universe and by extension the science fiction genre in general.

Right now I feel a bit like the Southpark boys in this clip:


Hold the line people. Don't let them get away with this.

 

only problem is that most of us see through the smoke and mirrors.

[Fuzrum77]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Im the senior marketing guy....one of them. Have been for the whole franchise really. I can't tell if your question is serious or if yer messing with me  the fan reaction is difficult to watch, after all the hard work basically. I'm not a moderator really, just an employee.

Jarrett,

I'm sure it has been tough. And I'm genuinely sorry that it's come to this. Please never forget that almost everything was perfect about your games. All three of them. I know that doesn't take the sting out of all of this, but quite frankly I'm glad it doesn't. We need you to feel what we're feeling so a change that we can all be happy with is possible. Never forget that all this anger, all this disappointment, all this passion is because we absoutely love this series so very much.

[Ameno Xiel]

Oh boy, I sure can tell that whatever happens, the Internet will not forget this...for a long time. It's like watching a single snowball rolling down a mountain becoming a full fledge avalanche. It will eventually stop sometime when it hits the valley, but for better or worse, the scenery will be changed forever.

Holding the line.

[Harbinger of Hope]

Did Mr. Lee at all comment on the quote from Mr. Hudson? Or did he dodge the question?

Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”


Care to comment how this sounds like a straight up lie?

[BonoVanHalen]

Wow, very enlightening post..

We must hold the line, stay strong.

[Karait]

JohnShepard12 wrote...

Jarrett's always been fair and compared to most devs, so has everyone at Bioware. They deserve more respect, despite the poor ending. We're still all in this together.

I'm sorry buddy, but BioWare lied to us during the advertising campaign, disrespected us with things like Tali's face, and are now playing some cat and mouse game with us by not taking the ethical course of action which would at least consist of giving us a clear response on whether the endings of Mass Effect 3 have been final or not. 

Instead they are trying to figure how to minimise hits to their business and image and no "we're still your best buddies" posts by a Jarret Lee is going to change it. BioWare seems to have finally contracted the EA virus and the fact that for a long long week they've been letting us rot, clinging to the Indoctrination Theory hope is a clear indication.

I do not think that a company like that "deserves more respect".

Modifié par Karait, 17 mars 2012 - 03:25 .

[WhiteVV1ings]

Bump.

Line is holding strong.

[cerberus1701]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

"The fan reaction is difficult to watch, after all the hard work basically. I'm not a moderator really, just an employee."




For this and your more lengthy post regarding post launch plans, I thank you. It feels, honest, sincere and not canned, which is what a lot of people here now need/want more than anything else.

I also see and feel all the work that went into the game...the dramatic choices...the voice acting...how hard you all worked to give variety to the class gameplay and bring back some of the RPG development elements lost between ME and ME2.

That said....how could anyone who play-tested, or even just watched that ending not know? How could they watch you go from dramatic moment to dramatic moment...gut-wrenching choice to gut-wrenching choice to...that? How could anyone watch that and think, "Wow, this is so good. It fits so perfectly. It feels so right."

How could someone watch that and be so happy with it, they lock development and send it to gold?

I simply can't fathom the thought process.

Modifié par cerberus1701, 17 mars 2012 - 03:32 .

[frostajulie]

Holding the line

[Promchek]

Shinobu wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Thank you, Mr. Lee. You are a courageous man for coming down here and engaging with the fans. I'm sorry you guys are not getting the triumphant launch you worked so hard for. Please remember that most of us love the first 97% of the game and are gutted we can't enjoy the last 3%. Unfortunately, the ending has made me unable to enjoy the single- or multiplayer game (which is indeed really fun) so I won't be taking part in Operation Goliath.

I will try to be patient and hold the line. Have a good weekend.

well, talk is cheap, how about they give us something real?

[Darkwulfjj]

Great Post, and I will not be playing mass effect 3 this weekend or any bioware game (including swtor) till this is fixed

[NeoVassal]

This PR crap is so offensive to our intelligence. Even without this gentleman, it's so obvious.

And we're not mad because it wasn't a happy ending - it was a poorly written one! Why was the Normandy fleeing? How did it make it to the relay so fast? How the hell did my squadmates magically get on the Normandy? How did they escape the laser when apparently "everyone" was wiped out (except Anderson and Shepard). Why is everyone so happy to be stranded on a random planet?

[Deemz]

awwnuts07 wrote...

An "olive branch" was extended in the form of "ME 3 suggested changes feedback". Let's keep this thread near the top of the page so we are constantly reminded that talk is cheap. It's wonderful they want to hear opinions now, but let's see if there's going to be follow through on their part.

Everybody remember it is not a real olive branch. It is just PR damage control. Until they admit that they messed up then this is nothing an attempt to calm your tempers because they say they are "listening" to you.

[Esc.Hatch]

 This thread is awesome.  I love atghunter so much right now.

As responsible consumers, we no longer have the option of "just not buying it", and not buying future bioware games won't have the obvious effect we need to let them know it's about the ME3 ending ("Oh man Dragon Age 3 didn't sell well, must have been a bad game" when actually it's that most of Bioware's devoted fans are too afraid to get their hearts broken again).  Our only recourse right now is peaceful, polite protest.  I really hope Bioware takes what everyone is saying to heart and is able to create a solution that beneftis them and us (benefitting them by fixing their PR problem, not by making them more money through a paid ending DLC, which would basically be a nail in their coffin more than a fix).

Modifié par Esc.Hatch, 17 mars 2012 - 03:32 .

[Broham]

I like this topic. Very informative.

Holding. The. Line.

[DS Monkfish]

Holding the line, and will continue to do so.

[Fame-KIllz]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

The same holds true here as in every negotiation. There are trained PR people at work here. They are experts in double talk, delaying action and deception here.

I cannot speak in PR stuff here, but as a former military I can say you this (and the PR guy from the first post will most likely agree):

The only viable strategy for you guys is doing exactly what the other side cannot handle: Keep the pressure up!
DON'T fall in line, don't respond to false offers of peace.

The strategic position is this. On your side you have a vast military but still rather disorganized. On the other hand you have a very well trained and organized but outnumbered army.

The other side is currently in the following position: They are attacked on all fronts but still mostly disorganized so they, being better trained, have been able to mostly hold the line for now. They are also most likely experiencing the first signs of sales losses, of dropping multiplayer counts and they have predictions on their tables of dropping DLC saled. In military terms: They are experiencing attrition effects, they have supply problems.
The only viable strategy in that situation is: Keep your forces together, make only very though though moves, do as many delaying and distracting moves as possible, because that's the only thing where you still have the advantage: The enemy is unorganized and cannot yet strike as an organized whole. If that were the case... bye bye.

So what you guys have to do now is use YOUR advantages and exploit their weaknesses. That means: Keep the pressure up and increase it. Organize, do organized large skale strikes. They have NO way to defend against those. The more organized you become, the more they will be able to feel your numbers. They cannot defend against a full-blown strike. They can only delay you and try to disrupt you. If you don't let them do that, you'll win outright.

So the best way to achieve this is to organize loud protests, organized, and well thought through. Also don't ever respond positively to ANYTHING but your initial demands. Don't even think about responding to "maybe"s or "let's talk". What you want is a full surrender. NOTHING else. DON'T stop before they bow down and literally talk to you on YOUR terms. YOU are the customers. Use that.
This also means: DON'T play the game, DON'T buy and DLCs unless they are EXACTLY what you want. They will feel the dropping numbers, they have Origin. Many people didn't like Origin, but now it is YOUR weapon. Don't play and the WILL see that. They do have the statistics. The fewer people order anything, the fewer people use origin the heavier you are threatening their supply lines.

Kill their supply lines while holding up the pressure and you WILL win this. But DON'T ever give in. YOU have the upper hand, DON'T let them take that away from you.

Also never become angry or uncivil. Because that is another one of their strategies. If you become an angry mob, they will be able to sell you as such, gathering allies. You don't want them to be able to do that.
Think of this as a war between a rebel force with huge numbers and the loyalist army of the head of state. If the head of state manages to picture you in public opinion as an angry mob, as terrorists or whatever, they might be getting help by powerful allies (read: the press). If however you remain civil, fight a gallant war and voice your concerns in a reasonable way, then YOU might be getting help and in the end the UN might intervene on your behalf (read again: the press will force them to give in or lose a ****load of money).

Keep this up people. Don't take the pressure of. The minute you do, they have won.

  

Brilliant post. 

Everyone read this and keep the pressure up.

Hold the line.

Modifié par Fame-KIllz, 17 mars 2012 - 03:31 .

[Strange Aeons]

Heh. Looks like this post must have touched a nerve.

[Esoretal]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Thank you.