9972 réponses à ce sujet

[x-Killision-X]

bump

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Promchek wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Thank you, Mr. Lee. You are a courageous man for coming down here and engaging with the fans. I'm sorry you guys are not getting the triumphant launch you worked so hard for. Please remember that most of us love the first 97% of the game and are gutted we can't enjoy the last 3%. Unfortunately, the ending has made me unable to enjoy the single- or multiplayer game (which is indeed really fun) so I won't be taking part in Operation Goliath.

I will try to be patient and hold the line. Have a good weekend.

well, talk is cheap, how about they give us something real?

Yeah you don't get my trust or my money until you give me the game you told me I was buying. Bioware lied prelaunch.  now it would be one thing if the interviews had taken place before the ending was decided on but they were not a lot of them took place after the ending had been choosen.  Bioware Choose to lie because they were afraid of losing sales from people like me.  trust has to be earned,you have to earn mine back before you get any of my money and you can't do what with words since I know you have no problem with lying.  Make this right and fix the endings and live up to your word that we would not have to play multiplayer to get all the endings then I will start believing you again,not before.

Hold the line as long as it takes people.

[Deemz]

Esc.Hatch wrote...

 This thread is awesome.  I love atghunter so much right now.

As responsible consumers, we no longer have the option of "just not buying it", and not buying future bioware games won't have the obvious effect we need to let them know it's about the ME3 ending ("Oh man Dragon Age 3 didn't sell well, must have been a bad game" when actually it's that most of Bioware's devoted fans are too afraid to get their hearts broken again).  Our only recourse right now is peaceful, polite protest.  I really hope Bioware takes what everyone is saying to heart and is able to create a solution that beneftis them and us (benefitting them by fixing their PR problem, not by making them more money through a paid ending DLC, which would basically be a nail in their coffin more than a fix).

Low volume of people playing multiplayer will keep that out of our RPGs. Maybe the story would have been better without the MP bloat.

[musicaleCA]

justlogme wrote...

Harbinger of Hope wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

It does not directly fund revenue to the company

No, but it does show EA/BioWare that people are still playing their game. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If your going to commit, then fully commit. Stop playing the game altogether. This half-assed bulls**t I see from this "movement" is sickening.

   Agreed with this, though we should be civil and respect those that just can't help themselves and must play MP. The point being every hold the line person that does play in the MP event will be counted a a angry fan that will in the end buy future Bioware products no matter what they say as they simply can't even hold back from a weekend event. ie throw them a faux peace offering and they are back in biowares pocket no matter how much they may complain otherwise.
   Also to point out big brother is watching if you got ME3 via origins then they know if your still playing or not.

I beg to differ. I've said it before, but will again: I'll take what I can get. They wanna give me free stuff? Fine. And I'm quite content playing multiplayer.

I was thinking of actually throwing money into some spectre packs, but every time I'm tempted, I just remember how horrible the ending was, and forget it. Where there's one, there are probably others. Not everyone playing MP right now will *keep* throwing money at BW. MP costs nothing but time.

In fact, if you really want to affect change, I say we should all be playing multiplayer avidly! It's a great way to meet people who also play ME3, and then, talk about how bad the ending was. If you see people with new MP characters purchased from DLC, ask them why the heck they spent MORE money when BW/EA is behaving so.

MP might be one ofthe best ways to keep the heat up and people mad...or perplexed...or disgruntled...or...yeah. Stuff.

[thejoyrider]

as somebody who spent 6 years in a relationship with somebody who worked in general PR and eventually moved to video game companies & "community management" and seeing firsthand how they had to deal with issues and listening to insider info (NDA's be damned), I have to say the analysis of this situation is pretty spot on in my opinion.

[JustinS1985]

Jarrett,
I feel bad for you, I honestly do. Right now any communication you put forward is going to be met with criticism just because of peoples rage over the endings. I worked in customer service for years, and the number one rule was never to tell someone what you can't do, always tell them how you can help them. If people feel like they are being marginalized or ignored they won't be going anywhere, and everything you do will be viewed with suspicion. At this point being vague is your enemy because people will see it as you trying to avoid the issue, regardless of your actual intent. If you announce that there is a team working on a patch for the ending, but it will take some time, or anything in that regard 9/10 of the people currently raging will stop raging and will instead be on your side. You will see a lot fewer "here's what I hate about the ending" threads and a lot more "they're working on it, give them time" threads.

[XTiferethX]

Hold the line

[Sidra2099]

We don't want to be disappointed, and we don't WANT to leave the ME franchise forever. I doubt even a fraction of the people would bother complaining, donating to charity, or calmly analyzing the endings from literary standpoints if we didn't care or were simply being dramatic.

Likewise, Bioware doesn't want to lose customers, and I doubt the developers particularly enjoy their game being diminished simply because of a very bad judgement call on the ending.

If constant pressure can lead to a faster resolution of the situation, rather than the typical response of companies 'doubling down' and hoping everything gets better in time for the next game, then there's going to be a lot less resentment and ill-will in the future.

Nobody WANTS bioware to fail, or to bungle this PR situation in the worst way possible by being overly-defensive or worse, hostile, towards their fanbase. Think of the Hold the Line movement as ... a friendly reminder for the company that there are standing issues that must be resolved for the sake of the future.

Everything's been very civil as far as the internet goes, and I'm sure everyone would be willing to accomodate or compromise Bioware's suggestions to any solutions. If it means paid DLC, then so be it. I'm perfectly willing to pay $10 more to get a proper ending BEFITTING the quality of the other 99% of their work. If it means time, i'm sure people are willing to wait.

But just as those in protest have to resist the temptation to express themselves in crude, vicious and ultimately fruitless personal attacks and temper tantrums, even as certain gaming review sites and persons make disingenuous assertions about us, Bioware has to resist the 'easy way out' of ignoring the problem, and never working toward a solution.

[Bebuse]

Line is being held.

This is an incredibly well put together OP, and one I have bookmarked for a summary of Bioware's movements, with an analysis.

I am still frustrated that we have had no clear explanation of the ending. We have had puff PR pieces and platitudes, as well as a good deal of insults (by the way, insulting thousands of customers = terrible business move).

I need to hear something concrete before I can take any other action than Holding the Line. If they say that is that, I will be trading in my game and saying a sorry farewell to my favourite game company. If they say they are working on an actual ending, I will begin playthrough #2 with the same sense of anticipation and hope I had on my first.

Bioware are playing a risky game leaving it this long. I appreciate they needed to have world-over playthroughs finished, but every day they wait to make a real announcement they are losing customers, future customers and goodwill. The anger and upset on the forums is serious, but the hit to revenue will be what wakes up the people who can tell the PR/marketing/writing team to get their act together.

[jcmuki]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Yeah all I'm hearing is just talk and not enough action
Actions speak louder than words

Modifié par jcmuki, 17 mars 2012 - 03:38 .

[Fulgrim88]

Karait wrote...

JohnShepard12 wrote...

Jarrett's always been fair and compared to most devs, so has everyone at Bioware. They deserve more respect, despite the poor ending. We're still all in this together.

I'm sorry buddy, but BioWare lied to us during the advertising campaign, disrespected us with things like Tali's face, and are now playing some cat and mouse game with us by not taking the ethical course of action which would at least consist of giving us a clear response on whether the endings of Mass Effect 3 have been final or not. 

Instead they are trying to figure how to minimise hits to their business and image and no "we're still your best buddies" posts by a Jarret Lee is going to change it. BioWare seems to have finally contracted the EA virus and the fact that for a long long week they've been letting us rot, clinging to the Indoctrination Theory hope is a clear indication.

I do not think that a company like that "deserves more respect".

The current endings are final. They are how the writers planned this whole thing to end. Plain and simple.

Casey Hudson, Lead Designer, said as much. And if that's not enough, it was confirmed by a third party app covering the last stages of development.

So what are their options now?
To repair the damage they have caused, every definite statement must include some sort of apology and/or promise to offer different endings. Nothing else would please the angry customer base. But that's not a decision you make on a whim.
Producing different endings (which need to offer a certain quality to prevent a 2nd outcry) is a tall order.
A lot of writers and designers need to be called back into the studio, a lot of cutscenes need to be created, voice actors need to be recast....the list goes on.

They need time to weigh their options there, and think on wether and how it's doable before comitting to any sort of promise, which they know we will hold them to.

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 17 mars 2012 - 03:38 .

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

People please don't forget that they said these things and this is why I don't trust them.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886

After we paid our money that many of us have no way to get back we have every right to hold them to their words.

Please don't fall for PR spin and don't cave. Don't buy anything untill they have released new endings DLC that doesn't require you to play multiplayer to get single player endings.  Thank you for standing together so we can get this fixed.

Hold the line as long as it takes people.

[nomoredruggs]

cerberus1701 wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

"The fan reaction is difficult to watch, after all the hard work basically. I'm not a moderator really, just an employee."




For this and your more lengthy post regarding post launch plans, I thank you. It feels, honest, sincere and not canned, which is what a lot of people here now need/want more than anything else.

I also see and feel all the work that went into the game...the dramatic choices...the voice acting...how hard you all worked to give variety to the class gameplay and bring back some of the RPG development elements lost between ME and ME2.

That said....how could anyone who play-tested, or even just watched that ending not know? How could they watch you go from dramatic moment to dramatic moment...gut-wrenching choice to gut-wrenching choice to...that? How could anyone watch that and think, "Wow, this is so good. It fits so perfectly. It feels so right."

How could someone watch that and be so happy with it, they lock development and send it to gold?

I simply can't fathom the thought process.

Well said.

[Harbinger of Hope]

musicaleCA wrote...

justlogme wrote...

Harbinger of Hope wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

It does not directly fund revenue to the company

No, but it does show EA/BioWare that people are still playing their game. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If your going to commit, then fully commit. Stop playing the game altogether. This half-assed bulls**t I see from this "movement" is sickening.

   Agreed with this, though we should be civil and respect those that just can't help themselves and must play MP. The point being every hold the line person that does play in the MP event will be counted a a angry fan that will in the end buy future Bioware products no matter what they say as they simply can't even hold back from a weekend event. ie throw them a faux peace offering and they are back in biowares pocket no matter how much they may complain otherwise.
   Also to point out big brother is watching if you got ME3 via origins then they know if your still playing or not.

I beg to differ. I've said it before, but will again: I'll take what I can get. They wanna give me free stuff? Fine. And I'm quite content playing multiplayer.

I was thinking of actually throwing money into some spectre packs, but every time I'm tempted, I just remember how horrible the ending was, and forget it. Where there's one, there are probably others. Not everyone playing MP right now will *keep* throwing money at BW. MP costs nothing but time.

In fact, if you really want to affect change, I say we should all be playing multiplayer avidly! It's a great way to meet people who also play ME3, and then, talk about how bad the ending was. If you see people with new MP characters purchased from DLC, ask them why the heck they spent MORE money when BW/EA is behaving so.

MP might be one ofthe best ways to keep the heat up and people mad...or perplexed...or disgruntled...or...yeah. Stuff.

My god people don't understand. They are tracking the amount of people who play Multiplayer. The more who play, the more they think their game was a success, so the more they dismiss the "movement" as just a small group of upset fans. But go ahead people, be a double standard. Say you hate their game and want it fixed while at the same time playing that very game!

[Femlob]

I'd like to take a second to point out that regardless of whether Jarret Lee is on the level (which is fiendishly difficult for either side to conclusively prove or disprove), the timing of events is such that those who belong in the camp of the disgruntled fans will not believe sincerity even if it is legit. In truth, I assume it will be very difficult to make them believe anything other than an official update stating that an additional ending is or several alternate endings are in the works - and given the PR-controlled spins we've seen so far, it's hard not to sympathize with that sentiment.

Of course, this is just for the record: I'm sure all parties involved realize this. The parallels with real-life, day-to-day politics are striking; the truth is an elephant in the room that one side is trying to avoid while the other pushes to get it into the spotlight.

Modifié par Femlob, 17 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[BBCH]

Holding the line in Croatia.

[Nyila]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

*snip*

Yeah you don't get my trust or my money until you give me the game you told me I was buying. Bioware lied prelaunch.  now it would be one thing if the interviews had taken place before the ending was decided on but they were not a lot of them took place after the ending had been choosen.  Bioware Choose to lie because they were afraid of losing sales from people like me.  trust has to be earned,you have to earn mine back before you get any of my money and you can't do what with words since I know you have no problem with lying.  Make this right and fix the endings and live up to your word that we would not have to play multiplayer to get all the endings then I will start believing you again,not before.

Hold the line as long as it takes people.

What baffles me is that they continue to use the same lines like "Take Earth Back" in that Operation Goliath thingy, when a lot of people have been complaining that, well.. we don't even take Earth back in the game..

[DarkBladeX98]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

a quetion about goliath- 
is there anywhere we can find a brute count?? 
I'll make a topic out of this.

[Asepsis]

Either way, the events this weekend will only last this weekend, after that anyone who did get distracted by them will be right back here voicing their dissatisfaction with the endings.

I hope they follow through and actually listen to us. I love Mass Effect and I really don't want to see it end this horribly.

[IST]

Avarenda wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Jarrett,

I appreciate you taking the time to comment on this thread. It always good to have input from a Bio Mod. I hope you understand however, that regardless of when Operation Goliath was planned, I still intend not to participate in an event i otherwise would have been all over.

Participating in your event while currently boycotting ME3's ending would be rather hypocritical.

Still, thanks for the input.

I agree, patience. . . ...

That is all. 

[Fulgrim88]

Nyila wrote...

What baffles me is that they continue to use the same lines like "Take Earth Back" in that Operation Goliath thingy, when a lot of people have been complaining that, well.. we don't even take Earth back in the game..

Well, technically we take back that planet.

Wether it still qualifies as habitable is another thing

[wright1978]

nomoredruggs wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

"The fan reaction is difficult to watch, after all the hard work basically. I'm not a moderator really, just an employee."




For this and your more lengthy post regarding post launch plans, I thank you. It feels, honest, sincere and not canned, which is what a lot of people here now need/want more than anything else.

I also see and feel all the work that went into the game...the dramatic choices...the voice acting...how hard you all worked to give variety to the class gameplay and bring back some of the RPG development elements lost between ME and ME2.

That said....how could anyone who play-tested, or even just watched that ending not know? How could they watch you go from dramatic moment to dramatic moment...gut-wrenching choice to gut-wrenching choice to...that? How could anyone watch that and think, "Wow, this is so good. It fits so perfectly. It feels so right."

How could someone watch that and be so happy with it, they lock development and send it to gold?

I simply can't fathom the thought process.

Well said.

Yeah exactly this. One wonders about the culture at Bioware. I can't believe nobody came away with the impression of how terrible the ending was and the only assumption is that they either got overriden or didn't feel able to express that view.

[Sentr0]

Esoretal wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Thank you for your lies, but i'll keep holding the line. Now please leave unless you have something concrete to say.

fixed

Modifié par Sentr0, 17 mars 2012 - 03:46 .

[congokurtz]

Great post! It was a great idea to link this thread on the 'Demand' FB page as it is very informative and wonderfully explained.

Hold the line!

[Karait]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

The current endings are final. They are how the writers planned this whole thing to end. Plain and simple.

Casey Hudson, Lead Designer, said as much. And if that's not enough, it was confirmed by a third party app covering the last stages of development.

So what are their options now?
To repair the damage they have caused, every definite statement must include some sort of apology and/or promise to offer different endings. Nothing else would please the angry customer base. But that's not a decision you make on a whim.
Producing different endings (which need to offer a certain quality to prevent a 2nd outcry) is a tall order.
A lot of writers and designers need to be called back into the studio, a lot of cutscenes need to be created, voice actors need to be recast....the list goes on.

They need time to weigh their options there, and think on wether and how it's doable before comitting to any sort of promise, which they know we will hold them to.

All I'm seeing now from BioWare official channels right now is some ambiguous corporate bs which fits very well to what the PR-analysis guy explained. Those statements basically reassure any point of view I could imagine. By the way, I'd like to mention that you conveniently forget to quote Hudson on those "final endings".