9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Noatz]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Im the senior marketing guy....one of them. Have been for the whole franchise really. I can't tell if your question is serious or if yer messing with me  the fan reaction is difficult to watch, after all the hard work basically. I'm not a moderator really, just an employee.

I'm sorry you and others in the Mass Effect team are feeling this way, and I hope you realise that despite the furor over the endings that a significant proportion of fans speaking out in this genuinely do appreciate all the hard work you guys have put into the game.

One way of looking at it is that its actually quite impressive that this enormous a situation has erupted over the fnal 10 or so minutes of your franchise - that in its own perverse way shows how much people have enjoyed it.

Now we just need it to be addressed, for the sake of the material as much as for us.

Hold the line.

[MystaisPC]

Excellent post OP. Truly appreciate your strategic assistance and hope it aids us in our heartfelt endeavor here.

[Astralify]

bump. Thanks!

[mrderp27]

BuddhaGeek wrote...

I like the fact that we have a PR expert.  It's comforting

PR Expert +500 War Assets

[Promchek]

atghunter wrote...

Good Morning (for me), Afternoon, or Evening All,
 
Some absolutely amazing posts an insights from folks overnight! And as always, thank you for the complimentary remarks. KeldorKatarn had some great thoughts on this from his perspective which overlap in one aspect or another with so many things PR teams practice. I’m probably going to end up spending a couple hours this afternoon wrapping my head around the philosophical parallels and constructs of his post! 
 
Just one quick thought and then I’m off to answer all the great e-mails I've received. I was happy to see Mr. Jarrett stop by last night. He came by to try and do a bit of “humanizing” (and yes, that is something every PR team uses extensively) of Bioware. A completely fair deflecting maneuver btw. I readily acknowledge there are probably some great people at Bioware, who love their work, do great things and may even be quite personable (please see my remarks yesterday re. Ms. Merizan). It’s genuine to that degree in his message, but the strategic goal is to try and merge the “corporation” which is pretty easy to be angry at, and the individuals who they want you to feel empathy for. It’s putting a face on your corporate entity much like many food brands have a face on their products.
 
So how do you resolve empathy for overworked and disappointed employees vs. a company you feel delivered an inferior/defective product? Simple. You can do both. Feel empathy for the workers, but continue to demand accountability from the corporation. As I’ve mentioned previously, at this point, this isn’t a struggle with the writers. And in the end, to be blunt, those hard-working, personable emplotees will do what the corporate entity ultimately decides. If EA instructs the writers and developers to write an ending with pink ponies and chocolate bars falling from the sky, that’s what will happen.
 
Just remember the bottom line is, well, the bottom line for EA. Please continue to remain civil and express your views (no matter which side of this debate you favor). Since I can’t see the other side of the chessboard, no prognostications on where the game stands, but it is pretty clear the pieces are moving.
 
Cheers!

take you mate. All very true.

[Roll Equals Cute]

atghunter, I absolutely love that your avatar is Duncan. It fits on so many levels.

That said, thank you for everything that you've done. You truly are an incredible human being, and your insights have been nothing short of heartening and inspiring.

When this is over, I'll buy you a cold one.

[FlyinElk212]

This was a phenomenal read, and an incredibly fascinating one at that. I wonder what the impact of what atghunter is posting has on EA's PR plans.

If any.

[humes spork]

mutio wrote...

The problem I see there is, that people are still buying the game. EA/Bioware get their money, end of story. They don't care for us fans anymore. The only thing that matters to them is money.

I've been following the thread with interest, and I'll throw in my two cents. I'm no PR person like atghunter, but on the other hand my education, field of study, work experience and future plans are in politics and political science (US to be precise, though I've done comparative stuff in the past). For all intents and purposes, it's about the same thing -- money -- the pretty face put on it just happens to be different and catered to the message.

To say "X got their money" is insufficient to explain a company's motives. That's hindsight, and in the past. The real question is "how much money can X get in the future". A kerfluffle like this can really hurt BW and EA's profitability, from the Mass Effect franchise and beyond. In the end, it all boils down to as atghunter said a strict calculus that determines what course of action (including inaction) maximizes the amount of money the company stands to make in the future.

[Linus108]

Silveralen wrote...

Linus108 wrote...

People need to not forget that DA2 also had backlash. A lot of gamers felt cheated by DA2 (the lack of originality with level design. How rushed it felt, and dumbed down it was from Origin).

So this is two things back to back where BioWare as a company has looked bad among the hardcore gamer base. Obviously ME3 is a much bigger deal. But I think we should remember that BioWare's image has been slipping for some people in recent years. And this is just another nail in the coffin.

I only bring this up, because I do think it's important BioWare doesn't ignore this, or move on past it. This time their core fan base is upset. So now not only is their core fan base mad/upset, they also look really bad in the gaming community.

It felt all around mediocre, which I can accept happens.

This feels like a complete betrayal of what we were promised and what the games stood for. That is too much for me.

I just wanted to point out, I never said the hate DA2 got was justified. I know people on here liked it, and didn't feel the same way.

I was just pointing out that people DID hate DA2, and thought it was a cheap ploy (quick cash grab). Again, not saying that opinion is justified. Just that it was a view by a section of gamers. So this + ME3, puts BioWare's reputation in the red for a lot of people. 

Basically, I was just pointing out as a company, this is two incidents back to back. 

Modifié par Linus108, 17 mars 2012 - 04:44 .

[vigna]

redknight38 wrote...

MouseNo4 wrote...

I want what all you guys want. I want a better ending. But the fact is they wont give us a better or alternate ending. Ever. The sooner you guys just accept that the sooner this pointless thread(s) will stop clogging up the forums.

I feel you there. Earlier this week I wanted to look up War Assets and whether it was true you didn't need MP to raise Galactic Readiness (I'm still not convinced you don't). Couldn't find a post-- it was all about the endings and it was incredibly annoying. I still don't have an answer to that, btw. Couldn't find a post telling me how to mod my Galactic Readiness either.

HOWEVER. Well, that's what a protest is. It has to be visible and it has to, to be blunt, disruptive. It's the nature of it. It's only by clogging the forum (among other places) that Bioware will be made to listen. It's kind of AtgHunter's point on why this whole Retake thing has been having some effect. Review bombing in Amazon and Metacritic is another good example.

I guess you should just take your own advice and wait for this to die down. If you really believe it will soon, then there's no problem. Going here to be angry will only give you an internet-induced coronary and, ironically, further the protest. As you said, you're not going to convince anybody.

I'm pretty sure without Iphone , android,  and MP it has been calculated at 3,800 for single player.

[JPLazyNinja]

Agree completely- this is more of a battle of attrition between EA and the fans at this point.

Lets not give them an inch.

[Harbing3r]

Thanks, all - an educated and reasonable thread. Holding the line!

[Linus108]

Luc0s wrote...

Guys I understand you're all upset (I'm still upset too), but lets stay friendly towards Jarret Lee.

The endings are not Jarret Lee's fault. He's not responsible for the endings.
I also doubt it's his decision when BioWare is going to say what. And even if it's his decision, he's most likely just doing his job. He is paid to gain positive attention towards BioWare.

Despise the fact that Jarret Lee is part of BioWare's marketing team and despise the fact that (bluntly put) he's with the enemy, he's still willing to come over here and tell us his thoughts. I bet for Jarret, posting here in this topic feels like putting your hand in a bee's nest.


Guys, I understand your frustration. I even understand why you don't buy anything Jarret Lee says, but at least try to stay civil and friendly towards him. Open hostility towards him is not going to further our cause. It might in fact cripple our cause.

So lets stay friendly towards Jarret Lee and explain to him our thoughts in a friendly and mature way.

We should always be mature, regardless. It never looks good when people are spazzing out, and being disrespectful.

But you have to understand that Jarret was just a PR strategy to make us feel empathetic. They want us to eventually stop complaining, because we now feel bad for the people that worked on the game. 

It's so easy to get sucked in, as it's constant spin.  So I agree, be respectful. And yes, I think people like Jarret are genuine. But don't let that stop you from being upset or having your voice be heard (even if what you are saying might upset those that worked on the game). Just be respectful. 

Modifié par Linus108, 17 mars 2012 - 04:47 .

[Obcasus Nex]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Peete wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...


There's no voodoo at work here - I'm just sitting on my couch reading this on my iPad, it has been a difficult week, I'm very tired.

Mr. Lee
You mentioned it's been a difficult week. Out of curiosity, why has it been a difficult week?

Again out of curiosity, and if you don't mind me asking are you a (just) forum moderater or one of the developers?

Im the senior marketing guy....one of them. Have been for the whole franchise really. I can't tell if your question is serious or if yer messing with me  the fan reaction is difficult to watch, after all the hard work basically. I'm not a moderator really, just an employee.

I sympathise Mr Lee. The internet can be a very harsh place sometimes. Just want to let you know I appreciate all the hard you and the others at Bioware have done on your product, however unsatisfactory I find the ending. 

From a creative perspective I can understand that not having somebody like your creation may be more difficult for a company than say if was just a bunch of people complaining about the broken clutch of a car, and from that perspective I do not think that the arguments that this is a "faulty product" in the same way as buying as broken blender are particularly apt.

However simultaneously video games are at that wierd grey area of being stuck between being "true art" in the sense of watching something completely lacking in entertainment but praise from a critical perspective (like watching no country for old men) and being a product that you buy simply for entertainment and giving the hordes what they want (transformers 3).

In this instance, I think that the creative side of things failed, just because it was incongruous, like sticking a wierd art house ending on the finish of an epic film like gladiator or ben hur. I would not like you to think that the majority of people are criticising you or other employees personally, and I hope you can take solace in the fact that the reason this controversy exists is because you were so talented and got us all so emotionally invested.

However sometimes there may be a time to give the audience what they want. Not wishing to intervene with the creative process overly, but sometimes even west end plays take into account poor reception and do rewrites, look at the spiderman 3 muscial. 

Anyway I hope life gets better for you soon. I understand what it is like to get ****ed at work because of a miscalculation, and although I am invested in the other side (I NEED A DLC DAMMIT ) I hope you pull through and find a way to solve this for Bioware and the fans mutual satisfaction!

Peace!

[Fred_MacManus]

Luc0s wrote...

Guys I understand you're all upset (I'm still upset too), but lets stay friendly towards Jarret Lee.

The endings are not Jarret Lee's fault. He's not responsible for the endings.
I also doubt it's his decision when BioWare is going to say what. And even if it's his decision, he's most likely just doing his job. He is paid to gain positive attention towards BioWare.

Despise the fact that Jarret Lee is part of BioWare's marketing team and despise the fact that (bluntly put) he's with the enemy, he's still willing to come over here and tell us his thoughts. I bet for Jarret, posting here in this topic feels like putting your hand in a bee's nest.


Guys, I understand your frustration. I even understand why you don't buy anything Jarret Lee says, but at least try to stay civil and friendly towards him. Open hostility towards him is not going to further our cause. It might in fact cripple our cause.

So lets stay friendly towards Jarret Lee and explain to him our thoughts in a friendly and mature way.

Really good advice. As much as I hate what Bioware/EA did to the ending of the game, I agree with everything you said here.

Modifié par Fred_MacManus, 17 mars 2012 - 04:52 .

[humes spork]

Noatz wrote...

One way of looking at it is that its actually quite impressive that this enormous a situation has erupted over the fnal 10 or so minutes of your franchise - that in its own perverse way shows how much people have enjoyed it.

Yeah, the silver lining here is the ME franchise, even including ME3 up until the ending, despite its foibles is so damned good people are this hacked off. If it were an inferior product in any other way, I can't imagine people caring this much.

[lasertank]

bump this again

[atghunter]

Nyila wrote...

I've read through the forums a lot lately, and what strikes me is that people who complain about the endings come from all walks of life. There are bank CEOs, retired military, college students, people who fix rotten teeth (that would be me), we're not exactly the stereotypical teen gamer crowd that people must think we are, and it sounds to me like Bioware are having difficulties targeting their consumer base.

I once watched a 7 year-old kid play ME2 (don't ask me why he was playing an M rated game, I told the parents about it but they didn't seem to mind much), he was frantically pushing the buttons to fast-forward through the dialogue because all he wanted was to shoot at stuff, he absolutely did not care what the story was about. So, when I saw that choice between full decisions and no decisions in ME3, it reminded me of that kid. The addition of the multiplayer also seems like catering to the masses of younger gamers who like that stuff. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying multiplayer is only for immature gamers, I myself also like to play that kind of stuff when I feel like it, but there are a crapload of online FPS or co-op games out there to choose from.

It doesn't bode well for the future of the single player, story driven RPG style.

And that diversity of disapproval is why they are making the overtures they seem to be making atm.  That and a cohesive, constant (to this point), and civil message from the fans.

Astute point!

[Versus Omnibus]

Luc0s wrote...

Guys I understand you're all upset (I'm still upset too), but lets stay friendly towards Jarret Lee.

The endings are not Jarret Lee's fault. He's not responsible for the endings.
I also doubt it's his decision when BioWare is going to say what. And even if it's his decision, he's most likely just doing his job. He is paid to gain positive attention towards BioWare.

Despise the fact that Jarret Lee is part of BioWare's marketing team and despise the fact that (bluntly put) he's with the enemy, he's still willing to come over here and tell us his thoughts. I bet for Jarret, posting here in this topic feels like putting your hand in a bee's nest.


Guys, I understand your frustration. I even understand why you don't buy anything Jarret Lee says, but at least try to stay civil and friendly towards him. Open hostility towards him is not going to further our cause. It might in fact cripple our cause.

So lets stay friendly towards Jarret Lee and explain to him our thoughts in a friendly and mature way.

That about all we can do right now. I just wish Bioware would give us a straight answer.

[bulldozerchn98]

Personally, I think the battle to getting the ending we want, weather it it is a patch or DLC, will take a very, very long time.

Bioware has already stated they have prepared various content to be released over a course of weeks and months, or in other words, a schedule. Even if they do listen to us, they will never allow such DLC to be released whenever the fans demand. Look at last year with ME2 for example - Considered that the more important (and polished) DLC's in LotSB and Arrival are released at the end/later part of the year, while Overlord, Kasumi and the Vehicle packs were shipped out quite quickly.

It will be a smart move on Bioware's end to delay the ending as much as possible. I can guarantee you that the next DLC they release will be re-taking Omega. This fulfills their vague promise of a) more Shepard and more content. So we have to really bear down on these coming months folks, I know you can do it.

Hold. The. Line.

[LoboFH]

"If you are going through hell, keep going"

[ReavousX]

Linus108 wrote...

Silveralen wrote...

Linus108 wrote...

People need to not forget that DA2 also had backlash. A lot of gamers felt cheated by DA2 (the lack of originality with level design. How rushed it felt, and dumbed down it was from Origin).

So this is two things back to back where BioWare as a company has looked bad among the hardcore gamer base. Obviously ME3 is a much bigger deal. But I think we should remember that BioWare's image has been slipping for some people in recent years. And this is just another nail in the coffin.

I only bring this up, because I do think it's important BioWare doesn't ignore this, or move on past it. This time their core fan base is upset. So now not only is their core fan base mad/upset, they also look really bad in the gaming community.

It felt all around mediocre, which I can accept happens.

This feels like a complete betrayal of what we were promised and what the games stood for. That is too much for me.

I just wanted to point out, I never said the hate DA2 got was justified. I know people on here liked it, and didn't feel the same way.

I was just pointing out that people DID hate DA2, and thought it was a cheap ploy (quick cash grab). Again, not saying that opinion is justified. Just that it was a view by a section of gamers. So this + ME3, puts BioWare's reputation in the red for a lot of people. 

Basically, I was just pointing out as a company, this is two incidents back to back. 

DA2 was a slap in the face.  From the recycled maps, to the disjointed story.  It forever changed the way I approach Bioware games.

But I was confident in Mass Effect.  The series had already delivered a great product two times in a row, and created a universe and story that was backed by fun gameplay.  We all had a general idea of what would happen to Shepard in the end, and knew that, with his story ending, it would probably be the end of the line for him.  

It writes itself really.  It's just that Bioware basically stopped writing right at the climax, and threw in nonsensical crash landing, and Stargazer in what was one of the most hard to stomach "There's more to come!" moments in gaming, ever.  

[Luiginius]

 Just read back some posts about still doing MP. It's all being tracked. So if you want to hold the line, here's some words of wisdom, from a synthetic.
 
at 3mins 34 secs www.youtube.com/watch

[vigna]

McAllyster wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for).

Star Wars weekend is clearly a distraction. EA's local department contacted me less than 1 day before the open weekend because they wanted to place some advertisements on my sci-fi site. EA usually contacts me weeks before a planned campaign. The whole conversation with the local manager seemed a hasty, last minute effort.

The whole SWTOR weekend seems a last minute action.

Hmmmm....