Just as an aside I wonder how it came about that Sherlock Holmes was brought back to life. How the customers voiced their dissatisfaction then without the social media and 24hr news cycle that we have now.
Hopefully we're on the way to a fix for our Richenbach Falls, certainly didn't hurt Holmes to have some resolution and indeed continuance.
EA/Bioware in Full PR Damage Control Mode *UPDATED 3/22/12, 5:28 PM UTC/GMT -4 hours*
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Bachuck
, mars 16 2012 10:44
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#1852
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:52
LinkSnake1016
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I hope you keep up with the perspectives! I've really enjoyed reading these views. I'm subscribing to this thread and will spread this thread around. Thank You!
#1853
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:52
Quamzin
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I'm digging this thread. The bean counters can wait all they like for this unrest to blow over. I'll be sticking around until it's finished, one way or another.
By the power of the internet, the blitzkrieg continues, with a chorus of relentless civility.
By the power of the internet, the blitzkrieg continues, with a chorus of relentless civility.
#1854
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:54
Sentr0
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Hamnurger wrote...
Why can't you people just be satisfied that they gave you this game and quit being giant babies.
because we paid for it, maybe?
#1856
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:55
recentio
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Should we send some official Retake representatives to the Apr. 6 panel in Boston? What complaints and proposed resolutions should those representatives discuss?
#1857
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:55
Almostfaceman
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Jarrett Lee wrote...
Peete wrote...
Mr. LeeJarrett Lee wrote...
There's no voodoo at work here - I'm just sitting on my couch reading this on my iPad, it has been a difficult week, I'm very tired.
You mentioned it's been a difficult week. Out of curiosity, why has it been a difficult week?
Again out of curiosity, and if you don't mind me asking are you a (just) forum moderater or one of the developers?
Im the senior marketing guy....one of them. Have been for the whole franchise really. I can't tell if your question is serious or if yer messing with methe fan reaction is difficult to watch, after all the hard work basically. I'm not a moderator really, just an employee.
I can appreciate it being hard to watch. No snark here, watching what you guys thought was a good ending was hard to watch. Many, many hours and dollars invested in a truly great story with lots of potential - this is why you're getting the response you're getting. We wouldn't be this disappointed if we didn't care. No voodoo here either, us fans didn't go into this looking to hate anything about the game.
#1858
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:55
Hellfire257
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Having seen what's going on here I think it is actually pretty important. Too long have we bowed to corporate will and allowed them to manipulate us to their terms. It's about time we reminded them we keep them afloat and in business. They should be following us, not visa versa. We make the rules, not them.
I haven't lost hope in BioWare though. We've all seen what they are capable of with previous titles, however the success of those previous titles is completely overshadowed by the elephant in the room that is Mass Effect 3. Removing that elephant is easy - all you need to do is work with the community rather than against us. If you chose to remove that elephant, then everything is golden and the DLC money can start flowing again. If you elect the keep it, then you will suffer as a consequence.
A reputation is built upon many good deeds. It can just as easily be destroyed by a single bad deed.
"This is what you face".
I haven't lost hope in BioWare though. We've all seen what they are capable of with previous titles, however the success of those previous titles is completely overshadowed by the elephant in the room that is Mass Effect 3. Removing that elephant is easy - all you need to do is work with the community rather than against us. If you chose to remove that elephant, then everything is golden and the DLC money can start flowing again. If you elect the keep it, then you will suffer as a consequence.
A reputation is built upon many good deeds. It can just as easily be destroyed by a single bad deed.
"This is what you face".
#1859
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:55
Veritasiness2
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Hey everyone - long time lurker, first time poster here.
I've read through much (though not all) of this thread, and all of the stuff highlighted in the first post, and I have to say that I'm extremely unhappy with Bioware/EA's response. Not because I don't expect big companies like EA to play PR games (I know they will, and do) but because their PR response has proved how woefully inept they are at understanding the very community they claim to serve.
Anyone who has spent any measure of time on Internet forums will begin to realize that, most often, two general rules hold true: Disingenuity is the most grevious possible sin, even more so than out-right dishonesty. EA/Bioware has been as honest with us as their PR training has allowed them to be, and I acknowledge that, but I feel that by engaging with their community through PR wargames instead of actual communication, they are being fundamentally disingenuous. Here's why:
Contrary to popular belief, we as fans (most of us) DO respect and indeed very much like EA/Bioware. Some of us even like Origin, of all things. Our generally high level of discourse, willingness to donate to good causes like Child's Play in the name of our campaigns (I missed the donations boat, but I donate to Child's Play every year anyway), and politeness (even deference) to Bioware's representatives when they do post are definite reminders of this. EA might not realize it, but the relationship we thought we'd developed was one of mutual respect and understanding - not the kind of relationship where PR gambits, faux olive branches and other "tactics" are necessary to make our points or effect change.
Think about it this way: If EA/Bioware had come right out and said, after observing silently for, say, a week (or less), that yeah, the endings were screwed up (or at least didn't turn out to work as well as they'd thought), yeah, day-one DLC wasn't handled as well as it could have been, and yeah, they'd try to make changes - this issue would have largely gone away. There would be no Retake Mass Effect campaign, forum outcry would have died way down, and the relationship would have been largely intact. There would be no "war," no "battles" fought, and those fans which rejected what could have been a very reasonable response would appear rude and lacking in empathy (to say the least).
Instead, EA/Bioware is engaged in PR manuvers and stalling tactics, and is still refusing to really frankly discuss the situation. They're content to let this be a one-sided argument, where we yell and scream and they sit back with nothing but a poker-face, nodding occasioanlly and asking "Tell me how you feel about that?"
None of the PR analysis here has yet analyzed why a PR-style response, as opposed to legitimate engagement and discussion, has become the default, when it appears (perhaps naievely) to me that this could easily have been solved with honesty and understanding upfront. That's what really bothers me.
I've read through much (though not all) of this thread, and all of the stuff highlighted in the first post, and I have to say that I'm extremely unhappy with Bioware/EA's response. Not because I don't expect big companies like EA to play PR games (I know they will, and do) but because their PR response has proved how woefully inept they are at understanding the very community they claim to serve.
Anyone who has spent any measure of time on Internet forums will begin to realize that, most often, two general rules hold true: Disingenuity is the most grevious possible sin, even more so than out-right dishonesty. EA/Bioware has been as honest with us as their PR training has allowed them to be, and I acknowledge that, but I feel that by engaging with their community through PR wargames instead of actual communication, they are being fundamentally disingenuous. Here's why:
Contrary to popular belief, we as fans (most of us) DO respect and indeed very much like EA/Bioware. Some of us even like Origin, of all things. Our generally high level of discourse, willingness to donate to good causes like Child's Play in the name of our campaigns (I missed the donations boat, but I donate to Child's Play every year anyway), and politeness (even deference) to Bioware's representatives when they do post are definite reminders of this. EA might not realize it, but the relationship we thought we'd developed was one of mutual respect and understanding - not the kind of relationship where PR gambits, faux olive branches and other "tactics" are necessary to make our points or effect change.
Think about it this way: If EA/Bioware had come right out and said, after observing silently for, say, a week (or less), that yeah, the endings were screwed up (or at least didn't turn out to work as well as they'd thought), yeah, day-one DLC wasn't handled as well as it could have been, and yeah, they'd try to make changes - this issue would have largely gone away. There would be no Retake Mass Effect campaign, forum outcry would have died way down, and the relationship would have been largely intact. There would be no "war," no "battles" fought, and those fans which rejected what could have been a very reasonable response would appear rude and lacking in empathy (to say the least).
Instead, EA/Bioware is engaged in PR manuvers and stalling tactics, and is still refusing to really frankly discuss the situation. They're content to let this be a one-sided argument, where we yell and scream and they sit back with nothing but a poker-face, nodding occasioanlly and asking "Tell me how you feel about that?"
None of the PR analysis here has yet analyzed why a PR-style response, as opposed to legitimate engagement and discussion, has become the default, when it appears (perhaps naievely) to me that this could easily have been solved with honesty and understanding upfront. That's what really bothers me.
#1860
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:56
OhManTFE
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Hicks233 wrote...
Just as an aside I wonder how it came about that Sherlock Holmes was brought back to life. How the customers voiced their dissatisfaction then without the social media and 24hr news cycle that we have now.
Hopefully we're on the way to a fix for our Richenbach Falls, certainly didn't hurt Holmes to have some resolution and indeed continuance.
That was no corporation that was just one author against a horde of his fans. They couldn't care less about his other works and wanted Holmes back. Pretty much it.
Modifié par OhManTFE, 17 mars 2012 - 07:56 .
#1861
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:56
Beti88
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- Members
- 154 messages
Seriously guys - everybody should join the letter campaign:
Letter campaign. There's nothing like a good old fashioned letter campaign. Physical
letters can often mean a lot more than digital ones. I'd like everyone
who is willing and able to compose a letter to send to Bioware (just
them for the moment).
Letters need to be short, and simple.
Highlight why you are writing to them, and what you are asking for. Do
not suggest ideas for a new ending other than in vague terms.
BE POLITE AND COURTEOUS. If it wouldn't be in a Disney cartoon it shouldn't be in your letter.
DO NOT send the letters out yet. There will be a single release date, so Bioware knows we are organized.
add: #RetakeMassEffect somewhere in your letter, so they know we are all in this together.
Can't send a physical letter? Email works, same rules as above.
Where to send:
Mailing Address:
BioWare Edmonton
200-4445 Calgary Trail NW
Edmonton AB
Canada T6H 5R7
Email: contact@bioware.com
Send out your letters on MARCH 17th.
Letter campaign. There's nothing like a good old fashioned letter campaign. Physical
letters can often mean a lot more than digital ones. I'd like everyone
who is willing and able to compose a letter to send to Bioware (just
them for the moment).
Letters need to be short, and simple.
Highlight why you are writing to them, and what you are asking for. Do
not suggest ideas for a new ending other than in vague terms.
BE POLITE AND COURTEOUS. If it wouldn't be in a Disney cartoon it shouldn't be in your letter.
DO NOT send the letters out yet. There will be a single release date, so Bioware knows we are organized.
add: #RetakeMassEffect somewhere in your letter, so they know we are all in this together.
Can't send a physical letter? Email works, same rules as above.
Where to send:
Mailing Address:
BioWare Edmonton
200-4445 Calgary Trail NW
Edmonton AB
Canada T6H 5R7
Email: contact@bioware.com
Send out your letters on MARCH 17th.
#1863
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:57
KHReborn
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- 263 messages
cyrrant wrote...
Hamnurger wrote...
Wow boycotting the Operation Goliath because of the endings. I love when people make a giant deal about something that isn't all important to life but when its a life changing ordeal people ignore it. Why can't you people just be satisfied that they gave you this game and quit being giant babies.
That's great! Is there anything in particular you didn't like about the Retake Mass Effect 3 movement?
HAHAHA. I lol'd hard. Now we have our own bot!
#1864
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:57
M12311
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- 313 messages
Forbes quoting Atghunter....priceless.
THIS HURTS YOU, BIOWARE.
THIS HURTS YOU, BIOWARE.
Modifié par M12311, 17 mars 2012 - 07:57 .
#1865
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:57
TheOptimist
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- 853 messages
Just wanted to express my thanks to atghunter and other users in this topic for their informative posts. Hold the line, folks, This is just getting started.
#1866
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:57
OhManTFE
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- 142 messages
How is sending an email any different from complaining on the forums here?
#1867
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:57
Kioux
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- Members
- 76 messages
Jhosephine wrote...
Been silently following this thread, but want to say I think it's an awesome read. Thank you for all the contributions, spread the word...hold the line!
And no I don't and won't play the MP...or the SP again for that matter. (which I haven't since experiencing the ending)
Happy to see you joined the line
Additionally - it has been great seeing so much different input and I think I not only learned quite a bit, but it also gives me strength to go on. ME3 will stay dark so there will be light in the end.
#1868
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 07:59
cnyranger
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- 1 messages
At first I was okay with the ending, felt maybe it was a little short, and thought the outrage was a bit of an over reaction. Now I have started to change my mind. I don't want a happy ending but the more I think about it the more I think it should have had much more closure to it. And not paid DLC closure. The only way I would be okay with paid DLC closure would be if we had the opportunity to play through post ending missions as other characters. I would enjoy the the opportunity to play as Liara, Garrus, Tali. However, even then I would still feel a bit gypped and the content of the DLC would need to be significant.
#1869
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:00
Beti88
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- 154 messages
OhManTFE wrote...
How is sending an email any different from complaining on the forums here?
I don't really know, but I couldn't send the letter because of post offices being closed on national holiday. I was careless but I didn't want the letter to go to waste:)
#1870
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:00
rickelmo
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- Members
- 26 messages
Beti88 wrote...
Seriously guys - everybody should join the letter campaign:
Letter campaign. There's nothing like a good old fashioned letter campaign. Physical
letters can often mean a lot more than digital ones. I'd like everyone
who is willing and able to compose a letter to send to Bioware (just
them for the moment).
Letters need to be short, and simple.
Highlight why you are writing to them, and what you are asking for. Do
not suggest ideas for a new ending other than in vague terms.
BE POLITE AND COURTEOUS. If it wouldn't be in a Disney cartoon it shouldn't be in your letter.
DO NOT send the letters out yet. There will be a single release date, so Bioware knows we are organized.
add: #RetakeMassEffect somewhere in your letter, so they know we are all in this together.
Can't send a physical letter? Email works, same rules as above.
Where to send:
Mailing Address:
BioWare Edmonton
200-4445 Calgary Trail NW
Edmonton AB
Canada T6H 5R7
Email: contact@bioware.com
Send out your letters on MARCH 17th.
Guys this is something we should be doing. Physical letters mean a lot more than an online petition. Because physical letters have to be dealt with by someone where and online petition can be looked at once and never viewed again.
#1871
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:01
katanakage
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#1872
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:02
Benth08x
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M12311 wrote...
Forbes quoting Atghunter....priceless.
THIS HURTS YOU, BIOWARE.
Holy hell, when did this happen? Got a link?
#1873
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:03
cyrrant
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- 436 messages
katanakage wrote...
http://www.gameinfor...spx?PageIndex=2
bad move
That really was an obvious misstep. Poor guy was just casting about with what the hell to do, though, I can understand why he did it. I haven't seen anything on the boards since that one thread about the FTC, though, so my thinking is that Gameinformer is attempting to seize on that as an example of petulant, whiny, entitled gamers.
#1874
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:03
Nightfire78
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- 272 messages
Great thread, very insightful. Awesome that it got attention from someone at Forbes.
I love ME3, but an ending that basically means you've either blown everyone up (or turned them into DNA juice) or left them to starve floating above a ruined planet while your crew for no apparent reason left you to die and ran for it to end up on a planet where, probably, either turian/quarian will die or asari/human will die IF the planet even has food-sources that aren't poisonous for everyone just is no way to end the journey. It almost seems the best ending would be "let the Reapers win"... and that's not even going into the feeling of futility that arises knowing that nothing you did actually mattered...
I know Bioware was capable of more/better in the past and hope they still are because I would love to play ME3 with my other 6 characters (which I made to see what happens with other choices...) but there's no point as it stands.
And even if a PR-colored reaction is better than no reaction, it's not going to make this problem go away. No space magic here.
Here's to hoping for victory against all odds like ME/Shepard taught us to!
Hold the line!
I love ME3, but an ending that basically means you've either blown everyone up (or turned them into DNA juice) or left them to starve floating above a ruined planet while your crew for no apparent reason left you to die and ran for it to end up on a planet where, probably, either turian/quarian will die or asari/human will die IF the planet even has food-sources that aren't poisonous for everyone just is no way to end the journey. It almost seems the best ending would be "let the Reapers win"... and that's not even going into the feeling of futility that arises knowing that nothing you did actually mattered...
I know Bioware was capable of more/better in the past and hope they still are because I would love to play ME3 with my other 6 characters (which I made to see what happens with other choices...) but there's no point as it stands.
And even if a PR-colored reaction is better than no reaction, it's not going to make this problem go away. No space magic here.
Here's to hoping for victory against all odds like ME/Shepard taught us to!
Hold the line!
#1875
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:06
BrotherFluffy
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- 561 messages
cyrrant wrote...
Hamnurger wrote...
Wow boycotting the Operation Goliath because of the endings. I love when people make a giant deal about something that isn't all important to life but when its a life changing ordeal people ignore it. Why can't you people just be satisfied that they gave you this game and quit being giant babies.
That's great! Is there anything in particular you didn't like about the Retake Mass Effect 3 movement?
Dammit, now I have to clean my monitor! That'll teach me to drink and read at the same time.
