9972 réponses à ce sujet

[cyrrant]

thebatmanreborn wrote...

cyrrant wrote...



As soon as you release "art" to be bought by the public you open it up to criticism and it becomes a product, one which the consumer is allowed to say they don't like, and demand a change if the creator is willing.  If they're not, then the customer moves on to greener pastures and the artist starves.

Exactly.  That's captalism.  If I don't like what Bioware is doing, I have Elder Scrolls V and Dark Souls with Diablo 3 and The Witcher 2 on the horizon.  Not to to mention Bioshock Infinite, Halo 4, Max Payne 3, etc.  

But let's be level headed, critical thinkers who do proper research and understand the gist of what is going on. Let's be open minded to whatever olive branch Bioware offers.  CNN and Foxnews reporting on this is NOT a good thing.  The general media already looks at games negatively.  You can't imagine what they will want to do with this story.  And you have to ask yourselves, is your rage over the ending worth people at Bioware losing their jobs?  Do you want EA stepping in and elminating Bioware like they did to my beloved publisher back in the day (Westwood Studios), stripping them of all their creativity and replacing them with their "own" people?  

You have to think through the consequences of all of your actions here. 

The second we allow our empathy for the employees to dull our message to Bioware that the endings were unsatisfactory then the PR machine gains ground and begins to marginalize us.  I do feel bad for the poor guys in the trenches who coded all this up and then have to deal with this firestorm when they should be taking a well-deserved rest, but Bioware screwed up royal, and they have to pay the piper.

I don't want to see EA dissolve Bioware, when they did that to EA Big they cost us 10 years without SSX, so the obvious decision is to make it right and fix the endings.  Then I'm sure a lot of us will go out and sing their praises to anyone that will listen.

[vigna]

Benrosan wrote...

This thread made it on yet another Forbes article:

http://www.forbes.co...blic-relations/

good job. Hold the line.

nice ATG is in Forbes...

[VinHikaru]

The significant majority of people who dislike the ending to ME3 have been very civil and have offered very thoughtful responses and suggestions for improvement. I encourage people who believe we're "whiny, disgruntled fans" to take the time and read people's opinions. I've read many posts that argue why the ending to ME3 is enjoyable to them....and I respect their opinion, although mine differs. People who enjoyed the ending to ME3 have their insightful points as well, but for many fans Mass Effect has always been about choice. I think one of the major issues is that the endings are too similar to one another that the feeling of choice and player input has been removed.

I also encourage people to stop comparing this situation to an author's ownership of a book or movie. While Bioware owns the Mass Effect universe and players just inhabit the world they've created, video games are a different and interactive form of media. Bioware has also repeatedly stated that the players help shape how DLC and game content is designed. Thus, the significant portion of gamers who are dissatisfied with the game's ending can offer their input with the hope that the developers will construct more options for these players. And like many options and choices in Mass Effect, players don't have to participate in these choices if they don't want to.

I don't think Bioware "owes" the fans anything, but I do believe it is profitable for their image and long-term success to listen to fan input and offer as many options as possible. I applaud their hard work, and I am optimistic they will listen to people's suggestions.

[Michotic]

Syrellaris wrote...

[snip for length]

True, namecalling is not the best way to do it. I apologize for that. Everyone has the right to make there opinions heard, but the way people on these forums are doing it is, is not the right way. Calling developers liers? boycotting which mostly hurts fans? Threathening with lawsuits? Come on, its a game.

You want to be treated with respect, just like everyone else does, yet you do not want to treat Bioware or EA with the respect they deserve. Its a two way street.

I also agree that being civil is the best approach. However, I (as far as I know) have not been disrespectful to BioWare or EA, so directing your statement to me personally is incorrect. Is everyone being civil? No, not on either side. However, I think it wrong to blame an entire group on the words/actions of a few. If you think someone is being disrespectful, that should be addressed personally. Just because 'Person A' and 'Person B' agree on something does not mean either one is responsible for how the other chooses to act on it.

[thebatmanreborn]

sistersafetypin wrote...

It's amazing how some gamers are falling in line with PR mess and claiming that we're not true fans to be complaining as we are. I say it's just the opposite. We want the ending of this game to be as epic as the rest of the game. And if Bioware wont do that, the ME3 will be the last title I buy from Bioware or EA

I never said that at all.  I was disappointed with the ending as well.  But some people, a minority I am sure but they are still connected with BSN, have attacked devs, game journalists, gaming sites, et.c  They have used insults, personal attacks, boycotts, etc.  And now there is an FTC "case."  That's what I'm referring to.  Just be levelheaded.  If a Bioware employee wants to discuss, discuss.  Don't call him a liar and basically go on a ten minute rant about how EA is an evil empire and Bioware has lost its soul.  Respect.  That's all.  I'm sure that will bring me some hate, but I'm just trying to help.  That's my two cents.  

[Killer3000ad]

Syrellaris wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...


Indeed bioware has taken a lot of flag from a minority group with no respect. Acting like arrogant little brats. They didnt deserve that in anyway.

The only arrogance I've seen lately is in posts like this which are baiting for an argument.  Don't give people like this the time of day.  I think most will agree this is not a minority group and most people have been showing that they still respect Bioware (half the reason they're still here).

Not bait, I am merely replying to someone else his statement. You can say all you want, but it still a minority though.

Minority you say?
http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/
http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

Now apply this as a sample size for polling to the number of sales.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 17 mars 2012 - 09:11 .

[BrotherFluffy]

My letter has been sent.

[Noatz]

Syrellaris wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...


Indeed bioware has taken a lot of flag from a minority group with no respect. Acting like arrogant little brats. They didnt deserve that in anyway.

The only arrogance I've seen lately is in posts like this which are baiting for an argument.  Don't give people like this the time of day.  I think most will agree this is not a minority group and most people have been showing that they still respect Bioware (half the reason they're still here).

Not bait, I am merely replying to someone else his statement. You can say all you want, but it still a minority though.

Based on what? All evidence would suggest this is far from a minority. I'm sorry but you need to come up with facts to support such presumptuous statements or you can't be taken seriously in any way.

[Silveralen]

BrotherFluffy wrote...
Oh, my bad.  This thread is moving a mile a minute, so I most likely missed it.  In all honsety, he doesn't have much.  The only things really promised was an end to the series and that you would take back earth.  It'd be really hard to use Casey's statements on "A, B, or C" endings because those don't appear anywhere on the game packaging or in the commercials.  The series DOES end and you DO take back earth, just not in any good way.  

I think the question is, does a comment during an official interveiw by the developer of a game about the game for a magizine all to promote said game count as advertising or not?

It is an interesting question. My gut says no, but, as always, finding a concrete answer is hard.

[Reidbynature]

Icesong wrote...

BrotherFluffy wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Promchek wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Indeed bioware has taken a lot of flag from a minority group with no respect. Acting like arrogant little brats. They didnt deserve that in anyway.

really, no one cares, move along

I do actually? What I have seen so far, from this movement, is nothing but a few arrogant brats that think they deserve everything they want. Disregarding that this is Bioware IP and they can do with it what they want.

You can clamp around a so called PR guy all you want(Opening post) but read his replies and you will find a lot of nonsense in it.

Thank you for your feedback!  Is there anything about the Retake Mass Effect movement you did like?

:happy:

I'm sorry, though I don't want to prolong a needless argument that line had me laughing so hard.

[Sentr0]

Reidbynature wrote...

Icesong wrote...

BrotherFluffy wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Promchek wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Indeed bioware has taken a lot of flag from a minority group with no respect. Acting like arrogant little brats. They didnt deserve that in anyway.

really, no one cares, move along

I do actually? What I have seen so far, from this movement, is nothing but a few arrogant brats that think they deserve everything they want. Disregarding that this is Bioware IP and they can do with it what they want.

You can clamp around a so called PR guy all you want(Opening post) but read his replies and you will find a lot of nonsense in it.

Thank you for your feedback!  Is there anything about the Retake Mass Effect movement you did like?

:happy:

I'm sorry, though I don't want to prolong a needless argument that line had me laughing so hard.

same here  

[Syrellaris]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...


Indeed bioware has taken a lot of flag from a minority group with no respect. Acting like arrogant little brats. They didnt deserve that in anyway.

Buying into the PR team I see. The polls (even if it's badly done) can be taken seriously when it is as many as 40000 people answering it. Together with the metacritic response it is at the very least 75% of the players who dislike the ending. I have taken a healthy rebate from the actual 90% when giving you that number. Such a huge response would tell you who the next president is. It is that accurate, make no mistake about it.

So by no accounts is this a 'minority' nor 'some'. It is in fact (quite possibly) the worst blowback in gaming history. Even worse than the Fallout 3 ending, by far. And they 'added' to the ending to solve the issue. It is good practice to make amends, especially when you don't actually need to change the 'ending' we have now. Simply continue with the game, that is all.

I can assure you I am not buying into the PR team and what they post. I like a lot of others and I always hope others do too, don't follow pack mentality. I think of my own and I read of my own. There are things that I have issues with regarding the endings, like the gilligan world crash landing for example and I do wish to see a resolve to that.

However, polls like the one done on BSN and Facebook are inaccurate. There is plenty of votes and I am sure there is plenty of people that have an issue with it all, but this does not make polls like these accurate. Metacritic is the same way. Plenty of reviews on that from people that did not even touch the game etc. There just inaccurate sources.

The same goes with calling Bioware or EA liers and idiots because they do not respond the way you want them to respond, the same way as people here, from this "movement" keep derailing posts all over the forums. (keep it in a single thread people). As a "movement" your actions count as far as your single members do. Remember that.

Again, respect is a two way street. If they give you fans a post, were they say they will take feedback and internally talk about it? Give them the respect that goes with it. Inmediatly yelling at screaming at them, like a kid that did not get what he wanted, is just bad behaviour.

[klimuk777]

I have interesting idea:
http://social.biowar.../index/10119191

Seriously, I want a new ending. This... is underdeveloped.

[Goodwood]

Keep Calm and Carry On.

Oh yes, and Hold the Line.

I've sent my bulleted list to BioWare via e-mail, but only because I couldn't get to the post office today. Perhaps on Monday, but I've got a ton of other stuff to do then.

[MeldarthX]

NeoGuardian86 wrote...

 you guys really need to lay off on Jarret and the guys from Bioware responding.

the fact that he has responded several times means we got their attention. Be respectful. 


I know it may discouraging, and yeah i don't like the endings either. But i just want you to know Jarret that you guys at Bioware did do an otherwise amazing job. 

and i am pleasently surprised by the co-op horde mode. Really good and i'm currently playing between Turian Sentinel and Quarian Inflitrator. 

I'm doing a second playthrough of the story on insanity. I really do love the game and the journey. Just i ignore the ending. If it was more fleshed out or at least gave me the satisfaction that my choices affected the galax in the end, i wouldn't of minded it at all. 

It wasn't a matter of dying, or being too dark, or sad. Just closure i guess.


I mean my friends and i were playing the game, the 6 of us (i'm the only one on this forum of that group), none of us particularly liked the ending(s), even when we swapped stories and found that they were like 95% identical in the end.  We started talking about how it could of ended better and ironically enough we said Lord of The Rings. 

of course that didn't happen, but we love the universe so much we compare it Lord of the Rings. 

I know what you're saying; but when the endings difference is a color pallete.......there is something wrong.  Second if you're color blind........there is only 1 ending

[vigna]

Sentr0 wrote...

katanakage wrote...

http://www.gameinfor...to-the-ftc.aspx

bad move

why?

Silly...when he first posted it everyone basically said not to do it. he can do as he wills though.

[Promchek]

Syrellaris wrote...

Promchek wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Indeed bioware has taken a lot of flag from a minority group with no respect. Acting like arrogant little brats. They didnt deserve that in anyway.

really, no one cares, move along

I do actually? What I have seen so far, from this movement, is nothing but a few arrogant brats that think they deserve everything they want. Disregarding that this is Bioware IP and they can do with it what they want.

You can clamp around a so called PR guy all you want(Opening post) but read his replies and you will find a lot of nonsense in it besides a few valid points.

no it is not a nonsense. It's exactly how things do work. And regarding Bioware do what ever they want policy, well, it's true. They can do whatever they want, but so do i, and i decide to complain about my dessutisfaction, because i am not ready to settle with substandard product. You are? Well it's wholy your prerogative, but how about you don't tell me what should make me happy?


Just think about it, where will we be if people in 1905 haven't went on the streets to protest? Right, you would still need to work 16 hours a day, and barely be able to feed your famely. This is how it works, you are happy with crap? Then you will only get more crap.

[Taboo]

The internet will never forget this.

Nor will 36,000 people.

Hold the line.

[MajorUhlan]

Mass Effect and video games in general are an interactive media. They are not movies or books or anything of the sort. Bioware has confirmed numerous times that they rely on their fanbase to create the best games on the market. The majority are simply doing what Bioware has come to expect from an intelligent fanbase: provide feedback and input on how to make it better. It isn't an entitlement issue or being arrogant brats. Every comment that calls out the movement simply validates that we are making an impact.

[Creston918]

"It will be achieved by showing them that this industry is not just about
money and about sales counts and quarterly reports but that it is still
about wanting to give people a great time and about making people happy
with your creations."

This is EA. It's been about money and sales counts and quarterly reports for many, many, many years now. They genuinely don't give a damn if you have a good time or not. All they care about is your $60.

[BARRAGE 74]

ATG mentioned in Forbes. Wow! Tip of the hat to you sir!

[Bourne Endeavor]

BrotherFluffy wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

To those campaigning to boycot Operation Goliath. I believe this is an unnecessary practice under the present circumstances. The event is intended to be fun regardless of a potential ulterior motive benetah the surface and we gamers have a right to both partake and enjoy this venue. Where we draw the line is our resolve. If after Operation Goliath, the outcry begins to waiver, people are less vocal of their demands in that this product was not satisfactory, then we begin to "lose the war" so to speak. On the contrary, if we continue to remain adamant in our stance; that while we may enjoy aspects of the game, we have no intention of backing down once these events come and go, not only do we force them to listen but could in turn damage their position.

No, boycotting IS a neccessary practice because for all the noise we make here, it means nothing if we're still playing the game.  It's been said numerous times, but I'll restate: EA TRACKS YOU AS SOON AS YOU ARE ONLINE.  They know how many people are playing, and if they see no drop or an increase in players this weekend, then they will make the conclusion that we are just all bark and no bite.  They won't listen to us, they'll continue to button up and try and wait us out.  

While I did and do have a rebuttal for this, namely EA not budging until their profit line is hurt. I must admit, on second thought, it would be quite telling if their event failed to reach a "success" and/or MP ones continue to decline. It should be noted you can disable that tracking feature, although I wonder if doing so actually does prevent data from being tracked.

[Sentr0]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The internet will never forget this.

Nor will 36,000 people.

Hold the line.

Those are the only one joining the pools here on BSN, so it's way more than 36.000. Also a lot hasnt finished the game yet

[CarGryph]

In case this article hasn't been linked yet:

http://www.forbes.co...blic-relations/

As previously said, Forbes may be one of our most important war assets. Please do always keep in mind what they tell about storytelling and selling games. And also keep in mind what atghunter said about PR damage control.

Hold The Line.

[thebatmanreborn]

Promchek wrote...



Just think about it, where will we be if people in 1905 haven't went on the streets to protest? Right, you would still need to work 16 hours a day, and barely be able to feed your famely. This is how it works, you are happy with crap? Then you will only get more crap.

Now you are comparing apples and oranges.