9972 réponses à ce sujet

[eoinnx03]

Holding......

[Quietness]

Syrellaris wrote...

Michotic wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

snip

I do actually? What I have seen so far, from this movement, is nothing but a few arrogant brats that think they deserve everything they want. Disregarding that this is Bioware IP and they can do with it what they want.

You can clamp around a so called PR guy all you want(Opening post) but read his replies and you will find a lot of nonsense in it.

I thank you for your contribution. Please note we are trying to keep things civil, so resorting to name calling really isn't helping anyone put much stock in your argument.

Customers are stockholders in a business. We give them money. If we purchase a product that does not live up to the promises made by the company, we should speak out. It is our duty to make our opinions heard, whether or not you agree with it.

True, namecalling is not the best way to do it. I apologize for that. Everyone has the right to make there opinions heard, but the way people on these forums are doing it is, is not the right way. Calling developers liers? boycotting which mostly hurts fans? Threathening with lawsuits? Come on, its a game.

You want to be treated with respect, just like everyone else does, yet you do not want to treat Bioware or EA with the respect they deserve. Its a two way street.

You seem to have grouped all the people who don't like the ending into one group. A lot of us are simply very unhappy with the ending and want it to change. We arent running around cussing people out or acting like little children, we are being patient but holding firm to what we believe. 

Boycotting which mostly hurts the fans? So are we not fans.. I mean if something like the ending has illicitied this much of an emotional response im completely unsure of your rational. "Come on, its a game" is as much a cop out as trying to protect video games as they are Art, you are on game forum , originally started with insulting everyone (an obvious emotional reaction). Than you come back to say "But its a game"

As for lawsuits, I havent seen any of those, i know some people were talking about them. I am hoping they changed their minds.

A lot of us have been polite, and have dealt with the type of narrow-mindedness you exibited when you began all while just brushing it off. 

[thebatmanreborn]

Sentr0 wrote...

Those are the only one joining the pools here on BSN, so it's way more than 36.000. Also a lot hasnt finished the game yet

By the way, you do know the poll system on BSN is broken, right?  You can vote as many times as you want.  So the numbers are skewed.  

[Reidbynature]

Syrellaris wrote...


The same goes with calling Bioware or EA liers and idiots because they do not respond the way you want them to respond, the same way as people here, from this "movement" keep derailing posts all over the forums. (keep it in a single thread people). As a "movement" your actions count as far as your single members do. Remember that.

No, I don't think that will help anyone.  That's too much like being unfairly chastised.  Many of the elements of what the Retake movement (or just anyone with criticism of the game) disliked about the game are valid in many of the various threads on the go of this forum at any given time.  Also it would feel like a perfect excuse to devalue those who criticise the ending or the game if their presence is banned from all other threads but this one.  Everyone has a right to discuss those things if they are appropriate for the thread from whatever viewpoint they have regardless of whether you or I personally disagree with them.  Jut like you are perfectly welcome to come here and voice your side of the argument in a reasonable manner.

[SandTrout]

Somewhat in line with KeldorKartarn's post, I have my own advice to help keep us from tearing each other apart and becoming our own worst enemy. This has been somewhat inspired by the issue that some people have with one member apparently going so far as to file an FTC complaint, but I am not here to argue the merits of that particular case.

First off, we must recognize that we are all, largely, working toward the same goal, and the more people we have on our side and the more unified front we present, the better off we are in achieving that goal. We should avoid exposing any gaps between the extremely diverse group which can be exploited by the opposition, both among our peers and within EA/BioWare. To this end, if someone is taking an action that is maybe a bad idea, but not outright criminal, unethical, or immoral, do not publicly attack them. This only serves to weaken us all and expose cracks into which can then be wedged into true fissures within the group.

If you feel the need to distance yourself from a particular action, calmly, clearly, and logically state that you feel like this is not an appropriate action for whatever reason. Approach them as you would a friend or ally, but never join with the opposition in firing at them. To use a military analogy, if you see someone walking towards a minefield, warn them that they're walking into a minefield, but don't shoot them to prevent them from entering the minefield. That is their risk to take, and who knows, they might be more successful than you expect. Unless and until they do something unethical/immoral/illegal, there is really not a whole lot of damage that they can do beyond what has already been done by the time we know about it. If some venue attempts to characterize the entire group by the action of one individual, attack the venue for representing the group unfairly, but refrain from joining the attacks on the individual. Basically, take advantage of the situation to paint the opposition as irrational and twisting the facts, which is honestly what they are doing, but don't compromise and side with them, because for every yard you give them, they'll take a mile.

On the other hand, if someone is simply being destructive and disruptive in a manner which you see as necessary to confront them over, you still do not want to do this publicly. the better means of approaching the issue is to talk with the person in private (PM in this case) and explain to them why what they are doing is wrong and destructive to their own goals. By doing this, you're not embarrassing them, which makes them more likely to agree and stand down, and they only end of taking fire from those who are opposed to us anyway, preventing our opponents from exploiting a potential wedge-issue. I'm not sure if there's a fancy catch-phrase for the principal, but I'm basically saying praise the achievements of other members publicly, but reprimand mistakes in private.

There will be disagreements on some issue when you have a group as large and diverse as we are dealing with here. You have people from practically every background and country working toward the same goal, but don't allow our disagreements on the details prevent us from achieving those things which we all do agree on.

Keep on holding the hell out of that line. o7

Modifié par SandTrout, 17 mars 2012 - 09:24 .

[Taboo]

MajorUhlan wrote...

Mass Effect and video games in general are an interactive media. They are not movies or books or anything of the sort. Bioware has confirmed numerous times that they rely on their fanbase to create the best games on the market. The majority are simply doing what Bioware has come to expect from an intelligent fanbase: provide feedback and input on how to make it better. It isn't an entitlement issue or being arrogant brats. Every comment that calls out the movement simply validates that we are making an impact.

This. This is exactly what is nescessary. Eventually someone has to buckle under all the weight.

[hard-case]

Just checking in with my support. I've sent email to Bioware, and have sent in a donation to Child's Play through RetakeME3. Additionally I've talked about it to several friends still considering purchasing Mass Effect 3. I don't dissuade them from it but tell them to look into the controversy over the ending and decide for themselves.

Hold the line.

[sirjimmus86]

In one sense I think Bioware should be proud of the fact that they have created both a story and also an environment in which fans at least feel like their opinions matter.

We are only hounding them because we genuinely believe that they can do better, and would give them a 'free pass' to just change the ending of the game, pretend it never happened, all is forgiven.

[pomrink]

If someone can find me rock hard evidence I'm in the minority (wanting the ending changed) I'll stop asking for it.

[Taboo]

sirjimmus86 wrote...

We are only hounding them because we genuinely believe that they can do better, and would give them a 'free pass' to just change the ending of the game, pretend it never happened, all is forgiven.

And would be great publicity for them as well.

[thebatmanreborn]

sirjimmus86 wrote...

In one sense I think Bioware should be proud of the fact that they have created both a story and also an environment in which fans at least feel like their opinions matter.

We are only hounding them because we genuinely believe that they can do better, and would give them a 'free pass' to just change the ending of the game, pretend it never happened, all is forgiven.

I agree with this.  Hound them, just dont bash them.  Good stuff.

[TheSteelArcher]

SSV Ohio checking in. Bioware can't side-step us forever, eventually they have to directly address the issue. If we remain civil and respectful while maintaining or determination and resolve then we'll not only have won but made a statement that they can't step on consumers and the theology they adopted from EA isn't going to fly around here. They can make all the empty statements and give us all the events (N7 Weekend) they want, it's not going to die down until they do something or we take our money elsewhere. Hold the line.

[thebatmanreborn]

pomrink wrote...

If someone can find me rock hard evidence I'm in the minority (wanting the ending changed) I'll stop asking for it.

even if you are in the minority, don't stop.  you have a right to ask for it.  do it.

[Promchek]

pomrink wrote...

If someone can find me rock hard evidence I'm in the minority (wanting the ending changed) I'll stop asking for it.

there are none. I've seen couple polls on gaming sites, they all show huge disbalance between those who liked the ending and those who don't. Also the price on amazon went down like stone, no major AAA title would have expiriance such price drop in only one and half week after release. I would expect this price 2-3 monts later, but not a week. Also, if i open amazon page, i get no Mass Effect 3 on the first page.

[ericjdev]

hard-case wrote...

Just checking in with my support. I've sent email to Bioware, and have sent in a donation to Child's Play through RetakeME3. Additionally I've talked about it to several friends still considering purchasing Mass Effect 3. I don't dissuade them from it but tell them to look into the controversy over the ending and decide for themselves.

Hold the line.

That's how it's done.

[Geezorbee]

MrAtomica wrote...

Feeling more than a little depressed at this point. Largely because the OP is quite correct, and the PR stunts being pulled are just hunkering down to let the storm blow over. I fear that we will never see our concerns addressed.

This is precisely what they want. When we start thinking like this is when we start loosing!

HOLD THE LINE!

[Syrellaris]

Quietness wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Michotic wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

snip

I do actually? What I have seen so far, from this movement, is nothing but a few arrogant brats that think they deserve everything they want. Disregarding that this is Bioware IP and they can do with it what they want.

You can clamp around a so called PR guy all you want(Opening post) but read his replies and you will find a lot of nonsense in it.

I thank you for your contribution. Please note we are trying to keep things civil, so resorting to name calling really isn't helping anyone put much stock in your argument.

Customers are stockholders in a business. We give them money. If we purchase a product that does not live up to the promises made by the company, we should speak out. It is our duty to make our opinions heard, whether or not you agree with it.

True, namecalling is not the best way to do it. I apologize for that. Everyone has the right to make there opinions heard, but the way people on these forums are doing it is, is not the right way. Calling developers liers? boycotting which mostly hurts fans? Threathening with lawsuits? Come on, its a game.

You want to be treated with respect, just like everyone else does, yet you do not want to treat Bioware or EA with the respect they deserve. Its a two way street.

You seem to have grouped all the people who don't like the ending into one group. A lot of us are simply very unhappy with the ending and want it to change. We arent running around cussing people out or acting like little children, we are being patient but holding firm to what we believe. 

Boycotting which mostly hurts the fans? So are we not fans.. I mean if something like the ending has illicitied this much of an emotional response im completely unsure of your rational. "Come on, its a game" is as much a cop out as trying to protect video games as they are Art, you are on game forum , originally started with insulting everyone (an obvious emotional reaction). Than you come back to say "But its a game"

As for lawsuits, I havent seen any of those, i know some people were talking about them. I am hoping they changed their minds.

A lot of us have been polite, and have dealt with the type of narrow-mindedness you exibited when you began all while just brushing it off. 

It is true I have reacted emotionally about this and sometimes I will still. I however Will change my views when pointed out I am wrong. Nothing wrong about that, i hope atleast.

Anyway, I believe you have grouped yourself. The "movement" is basically a group of people that do not like the ending of the game, or its closure if you will. There is a lot of you that are indeed patient as you say, but a large and very loud group is not. They are being rude and everything else you can call them regarding it.

I hold the entire group accountable for there actions, yes. is that wrong? I personally do not believe so. People went as far as to create this group and knowingly accepted even those people into it. There for I believe the group is responsible for there actions (not the TLC one, i believe that is just a single person).

The boycotting part, well I am not calling any of you none fans. But you have to understand there are also a lot of fans that do want to do this event, because they enjoy the multiplayer. By boycotting, you are effectivily screwing them over. Is that good practice as a  "movement" to screw those over that might agree with you? in the hope that you hurt a company?

Reidbynature wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...


The
same goes with calling Bioware or EA liers and idiots because they do
not respond the way you want them to respond, the same way as people
here, from this "movement" keep derailing posts all over the forums. (keep it in a single thread people). As a "movement" your actions count as far as your single members do. Remember that.

No,
I don't think that will help anyone.  That's too much like being
unfairly chastised.  Many of the elements of what the Retake movement
(or just anyone with criticism of the game) disliked about the game are
valid in many of the various threads on the go of this forum at any
given time.  Also it would feel like a perfect excuse to devalue those
who criticise the ending or the game if their presence is banned from
all other threads but this one.  Everyone has a right to discuss those
things if they are appropriate for the thread from whatever viewpoint
they have regardless of whether you or I personally disagree with them.
 Jut like you are perfectly welcome to come here and voice your side of
the argument in a reasonable manner.

These are forums and there are rules you agreed upon when signing up to it. keeping these type of discussions in a single thread is there for the only right way to go. Derailing other threads with posts linking to this thread , even if the topic has nothing to do with it. Is bad behaviour.

The only thing you are doing with it, is annoying people that currently don't want to deal with the ending debate anymore.

[electrosphere11]

Don't lose sight of our goals, ladies and gents. We're in this for the long haul.

[DaZ269]

I just beat the game and i can't help but feel that bioware could of done better and agree with all of you if we stay civil in our task of getting this (makes no sense) ending get an ending that we've been working up to and playing towards in Mass Effect 1 and 2. So to everyone continue to Hold The Line

[Reptilian Rob]

I see a lot of us giving up, I hope we can continue to fight against this...

[DrowNoble]

I agree that the weekend event will merely be a distraction. It seems too convenient that it happened to conicide with this. Sure some may take advantage of it but once's it's over they'll see that ME3 Shortcut on their desktop that seems to be mocking them.

Bioware is mostly likely trying to stall, figuring that fan outrage will burn itself out. We the fans need to maintain the steady pressure. It's not that the ending is "bittersweet", it's that is contrary to the character of Shephard and is far from the "satisfying" ending we were promised.

I've even heard that complaints with the BBB and FTC are being filed. Not for the "ending sucks" but from dishonesty from Bioware. They said their product (ME3) would have certain features (choice affects end, closure, etc) and it didn't. That is basically false advertising as they deliberately misleading the public.

Bioware needs to swallow their pride. They made a mistake, own up and fix it. We gamers can be a forgiving bunch.

Remember people: HOLD THE LINE

[thebatmanreborn]

Promchek wrote...

pomrink wrote...

If someone can find me rock hard evidence I'm in the minority (wanting the ending changed) I'll stop asking for it.

there are none. I've seen couple polls on gaming sites, they all show huge disbalance between those who liked the ending and those who don't. Also the price on amazon went down like stone, no major AAA title would have expiriance such price drop in only one and half week after release. I would expect this price 2-3 monts later, but not a week. Also, if i open amazon page, i get no Mass Effect 3 on the first page.

I just want to point out that some of this info you gave is false. This is what I mean about fact checking.  I can get almost any title, even AAA, at $40-$50 within two weeks of their release by shopping right.  I got Dark Souls, Gears of War 3, Modern Warfare 3, and Saints Row 3 at $40.  I did pay full price for Elder Scrolls V but that's because I preordered it.  So Mass Effect 3 being available at different prices is normal.  

Modifié par thebatmanreborn, 17 mars 2012 - 09:42 .

[OneWithTheAssassins]

I for one will not buy ANY DLC untill they do something about the ending. Whats the point of doing anything before the ending if it won't make a difference.

[Mesmurae]

I'd like to point out the humor in the 'Hold the line' slogan we seem to have adopted. I think it's fitting that we're borrowing it from the franchise we're trying to save.

[Hydralysk]

SandTrout wrote...

Somewhat in line with KeldorKartarn's post, I have my own advice to help keep us from tearing each other apart and becoming our own worst enemy. This has been somewhat inspired by the issue that some people have with one member apparently going so far as to file an FTC complaint, but I am not here to argue the merits of that particular case.

First off, we must recognize that we are all, largely, working toward the same goal, and the more people we have on our side and the more unified front we present, the better off we are in achieving that goal. We should avoid exposing any gaps between the extremely diverse group which can be exploited by the opposition, both among our peers and within EA/BioWare. To this end, if someone is taking an action that is maybe a bad idea, but not outright criminal, unethical, or immoral, do not publicly attack them. This only serves to weaken us all and expose cracks into which can then be wedged into true fissures within the group.

If you feel the need to distance yourself from a particular action, calmly, clearly, and logically state that you feel like this is not an appropriate action for whatever reason. Approach them as you would a friend or ally, but never join with the opposition in firing at them. To use a military analogy, if you see someone walking towards a minefield, warn them that they're walking into a minefield, but don't shoot them to prevent them from entering the minefield. That is their risk to take, and who knows, they might be more successful than you expect. Unless and until they do something unethical/immoral/illegal, there is really not a whole lot of damage that they can do beyond what has already been done by the time we know about it. If some venue attempts to characterize the entire group by the action of one individual, attack the venue for representing the group unfairly, but refrain from joining the attacks on the individual. Basically, take advantage of the situation to paint the opposition as irrational and twisting the facts, which is honestly what they are doing, but don't compromise and side with them, because for every yard you give them, they'll take a mile.

On the other hand, if someone is simply being destructive and disruptive in a manner which you see as necessary to confront them over, you still do not want to do this publicly. the better means of approaching the issue is to talk with the person in private (PM in this case) and explain to them why what they are doing is wrong and destructive to their own goals. By doing this, you're not embarrassing them, which makes them more likely to agree and stand down, and they only end of taking fire from those who are opposed to us anyway, preventing our opponents from exploiting a potential wedge-issue. I'm not sure if there's a fancy catch-phrase for the principal, but I'm basically saying praise the achievements of other members publicly, but reprimand mistakes in private.

There will be disagreements on some issue when you have a group as large and diverse as we are dealing with here. You have people from practically every background and country working toward the same goal, but don't allow our disagreements on the details prevent us from achieving those things which we all do agree on.

Keep on holding the hell out of that line. o7

Interesting read.