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Nice. I've just done the same.hard-case wrote...
Just checking in with my support. I've sent email to Bioware, and have sent in a donation to Child's Play through RetakeME3. Additionally I've talked about it to several friends still considering purchasing Mass Effect 3. I don't dissuade them from it but tell them to look into the controversy over the ending and decide for themselves.
Hold the line.
pomrink wrote...
http://www.amazon.co...ix=mass,aps,211
40 dollars new.
Syrellaris wrote...
It is true I have reacted emotionally about this and sometimes I will still. I however Will change my views when pointed out I am wrong. Nothing wrong about that, i hope atleast.
Anyway, I believe you have grouped yourself. The "movement" is basically a group of people that do not like the ending of the game, or its closure if you will. There is a lot of you that are indeed patient as you say, but a large and very loud group is not. They are being rude and everything else you can call them regarding it.
I hold the entire group accountable for there actions, yes. is that wrong? I personally do not believe so. People went as far as to create this group and knowingly accepted even those people into it. There for I believe the group is responsible for there actions (not the TLC one, i believe that is just a single person).
Syrellaris wrote...
The boycotting part, well I am not calling any of you none fans. But you have to understand there are also a lot of fans that do want to do this event, because they enjoy the multiplayer. By boycotting, you are effectivily screwing them over. Is that good practice as a "movement" to screw those over that might agree with you? in the hope that you hurt a company?
Syrellaris wrote...
pomrink wrote...
http://www.amazon.co...ix=mass,aps,211
40 dollars new.
Doesnt say a thing...its actually pretty normal as someone else explained earlier.
Syrellaris wrote...
These are forums and there are rules you agreed upon when signing up to it. keeping these type of discussions in a single thread is there for the only right way to go. Derailing other threads with posts linking to this thread , even if the topic has nothing to do with it. Is bad behaviour.
The only thing you are doing with it, is annoying people that currently don't want to deal with the ending debate anymore.
Modifié par Reidbynature, 17 mars 2012 - 09:47 .
thebatmanreborn wrote...
Sentr0 wrote...
Those are the only one joining the pools here on BSN, so it's way more than 36.000. Also a lot hasnt finished the game yet
By the way, you do know the poll system on BSN is broken, right? You can vote as many times as you want. So the numbers are skewed.
redknight38 wrote...
I sigh at myself. I really did promise to stay out of this, but that's clearly me lying to myself since last night. I've been involved...
So I am about to get a PhD in military history, with a specialty on insurgencies and conflict management. I'm not active military but what the hell. The gentleman in active duty was right-- this movement needs to get organized. Bioware has been getting better at playing by the PR handbook because they're getting a handle on things. Therefore they are in for the long haul and therefore people here have to be as well. That means getting organized and having consistent, coherent, simple and clear tactics and messaging. The Tea Party and the Occuppy movements both had to do that, hence their staying power after initial passionate outbursts.
How do insurgencies or even COIN ops operate?
1) Get a message out. So this Retake movement has to get a message out. Some suggestions have been offered: google bombing and review bombing. I have a lot of qualms about the latter because it has the potential to irreparably drive down the reviews to the point of not being able to repair it. Later, when this movement has become more articulated, you might be able to promise to attempt to drive that review rating up, however.
Either way, find a way to spread this on the Internet and build awareness for it. Have simple talking points and try to agree on them.
I suggest remaining polite and even being a little positive. You like ME, you don't hate Bioware. You just want changes. That'll build a sympathetic message because a key point in COIN and insurgencies is winning over neutrals.
2) Repeat the message as often as you can. Self-explanatory. However, it can't just be "I hate the ending" or "hold the line." You'll have to keep repeating your simple, bullet-pointed list of complaints. Groups like the IRA don't repeat long treatises (as I've been seeing on the boards) on their complaints. Nobody will read that. Keep it simple and keep it consistent.
That clearly means people on this forum will have to come to an agreement of the basic points they all agree with. The majority of resistance movements have internal problems and divisions that are often more important than external ones. The IRA, the VC, Mao, they all killed as many or more of their own members as their enemies. Failed insurgencies like the Philippine NPA did so to the detriment of their mission.
Incidentally, that means that instead of saying "bump" or "hold the line" or "I support this thread" you might want to say "don't play SP or MP" in trying to bump it. Something constructive. The message.
3) Disrupt the enemy's internal cohesion. Attacking Bioware people is highly counter-productive so no ambushing or isolating. These people are just doing their jobs and I sincerely doubt they're maliciously laughing at your discontent. Neither are they having money fights at your expense. Come on people, this is the gaming industry, not Goldman Sachs. These people are not rolling in it.
They try to humanize themselves to win your sympathy. DO THE SAME. Stop attacking Casey Hudson and the like but instead tell them you love the game, you always liked his writing and you always had faith in him. This will be easier because it's essentially true. Tell them you don't hate them, that you'll go back to the fold if they meet your demands.
What you are trying to do is build sympathy and win defectors. The biggest prize for an insurgency movement are defectors, especially high profile ones. In the case of this Retake thing, you want to do it so that during their meetings there will be someone advocating for you. Hopefully more than one someone. Incidentally, this might involve having to accept paid ending DLC. Much earlier in this thread I opined why it would have to be paid: remember, they claim the game is done. The story is finished to their satisfaction. Any ending DLC they release they can legitimately (i.e. in court) claim as bonus. You don't need to get it.
Be careful of them trying to do the same. They'll try to win you over so someone here will suddenly be advocating for them. Hence the skepticism regarding Mr. Lee. He came here and suddenly everybody was telling others to back off, the Bioware guys had a long week. This is true, and don't be rude to him. However, nobody was, but people were losing their skepticism and resolve.
4) Disrupt the enemy logistics which means disrupting sales. Since you can't meet them head-on, this is one thing you can do. However, threatening to boycott products not yet made is absolutely meaningless. Newsflash, if you threaten not to buy something a company has not yet made, what will they do? Not make them. Bioware hasn't lost money on products not yet made because they haven't sunk resources into making them and marketing them. If you threaten not to buy it, they will find another product, one which does not cater to you. The next Bioware game could therefore very well be a multiplayer game or a shooter. That being said, threatening to boycott Bioware in the future is not a bad idea since AGTHunter noted that it turned you into cautious consumers. You just have to do more.
However, they have ME3 now. I can guarantee you the sales of ME3 and its future content are part of their current budget plan and profit projection. It's part of their logistics. Disrupt that and you are actually making a message regarding their money.
You don't need to do anything dramatic but it might be hard. Too hard. Playing SP offline and not playing MP is honestly the best way to do it-- they track your playtime so by not playing you are telling them you are unhappy with the current product and will therefore not buy future DLC or anything of the sort. Since they alread have money sunk into your product, one likely response from Bioware is to attempt to find ways of luring you back since that would be easier than making an entirely new game. If you keep emphasizing you would love to be lured back if they meet your demands, even better. Remember that video games are actually cheaper than you think and a lot of their profitability comes from DLC so you do hold some leverage here.
Discouraging others from buying it works as well.
Not playing MP seems a no go since too many people want to. So be it-- it's their right and they're being smart consumers still. They paid for it, why not enjoy it? Don't criticize them for it. Someone suggested continuing the protest on MP and if it is possible change your name to reflect Retake or Hold the Line. Add it to your online avatar's name. I don't know if that's possible.
Basically-- if you kids are serious about this, remember a) this won't be easy and it'll take a while,there will be no clear win, insurgencies or COIN ops don't end cleanly, c) there is risk. There is always risk and you'll have to accept that. The biggest risk is that Bioware might simply abandon you and ME3. Another is that you might damage Bioware to the point that it can't make its games. I don't like that, you don't like that and it's why a lot of "haters" are mad at you. They have good cause, but that's beside your point.
One last cynical thing you can offer Bioware: if they meet your demands and you are happy... well you can essentially offer this online advocacy network to them. Most companies would give their right arms to have a passionate, far-reaching and dedicated group of people pushing their products for free.
So good luck to you kids.
pomrink wrote...
http://www.amazon.co...ix=mass,aps,211
40 dollars new.
Modifié par thebatmanreborn, 17 mars 2012 - 09:48 .
thebatmanreborn wrote...
Promchek wrote...
pomrink wrote...
If someone can find me rock hard evidence I'm in the minority (wanting the ending changed) I'll stop asking for it.
there are none. I've seen couple polls on gaming sites, they all show huge disbalance between those who liked the ending and those who don't. Also the price on amazon went down like stone, no major AAA title would have expiriance such price drop in only one and half week after release. I would expect this price 2-3 monts later, but not a week. Also, if i open amazon page, i get no Mass Effect 3 on the first page.
I just want to point out that some of this info you gave is false. This is what I mean about fact checking. I can get almost any title, even AAA, at $40-$50 within two weeks of their release by shopping right. I got Dark Souls, Gears of War 3, Modern Warfare 3, and Saints Row 3 at $40. I did pay full price for Elder Scrolls V but that's because I preordered it. So Mass Effect 3 being available at different prices is normal.
sirjimmus86 wrote...
In one sense I think Bioware should be proud of the fact that they have created both a story and also an environment in which fans at least feel like their opinions matter.
We are only hounding them because we genuinely believe that they can do better, and would give them a 'free pass' to just change the ending of the game, pretend it never happened, all is forgiven.
Sentr0 wrote...
This rule apply to both sides, so the pool is still legit (at least as %).
Syrellaris wrote...
Quietness wrote...
snipSyrellaris wrote...
Michotic wrote...
Syrellaris wrote...
snip
snip
You seem to have grouped all the people who don't like the ending into one group. A lot of us are simply very unhappy with the ending and want it to change. We arent running around cussing people out or acting like little children, we are being patient but holding firm to what we believe.
Boycotting which mostly hurts the fans? So are we not fans.. I mean if something like the ending has illicitied this much of an emotional response im completely unsure of your rational. "Come on, its a game" is as much a cop out as trying to protect video games as they are Art, you are on game forum , originally started with insulting everyone (an obvious emotional reaction). Than you come back to say "But its a game"
As for lawsuits, I havent seen any of those, i know some people were talking about them. I am hoping they changed their minds.
A lot of us have been polite, and have dealt with the type of narrow-mindedness you exibited when you began all while just brushing it off.
Anyway, I believe you have grouped yourself. The "movement" is basically a group of people that do not like the ending of the game, or its closure if you will. There is a lot of you that are indeed patient as you say, but a large and very loud group is not. They are being rude and everything else you can call them regarding it.
I hold the entire group accountable for there actions, yes. is that wrong? I personally do not believe so. People went as far as to create this group and knowingly accepted even those people into it. There for I believe the group is responsible for there actions (not the TLC one, i believe that is just a single person).
The boycotting part, well I am not calling any of you none fans. But you have to understand there are also a lot of fans that do want to do this event, because they enjoy the multiplayer. By boycotting, you are effectivily screwing them over. Is that good practice as a "movement" to screw those over that might agree with you? in the hope that you hurt a company?Reidbynature wrote...
Syrellaris wrote...
The
same goes with calling Bioware or EA liers and idiots because they do
not respond the way you want them to respond, the same way as people
here, from this "movement" keep derailing posts all over the forums. (keep it in a single thread people). As a "movement" your actions count as far as your single members do. Remember that.
snip
.
These are forums and there are rules you agreed upon when signing up to it. keeping these type of discussions in a single thread is there for the only right way to go. Derailing other threads with posts linking to this thread , even if the topic has nothing to do with it. Is bad behaviour.
The only thing you are doing with it, is annoying people that currently don't want to deal with the ending debate anymore.
Modifié par MajorUhlan, 17 mars 2012 - 09:53 .
Modifié par ArmyKnifeX, 17 mars 2012 - 10:16 .
Goroxx wrote...
Thank you Bachuck, for continuing to edit the front post, helps those us with little time to keep up on a fascinating threat.
pomrink wrote...
Syrellaris wrote...
pomrink wrote...
http://www.amazon.co...ix=mass,aps,211
40 dollars new.
Doesnt say a thing...its actually pretty normal as someone else explained earlier.
Do you have any proof it is normal beyond ancedotal information?
thebatmanreborn wrote...
pomrink wrote...
http://www.amazon.co...ix=mass,aps,211
40 dollars new.
Yes, now click on that link. Who is selling it for $39.99? Xboxer Storefront. He only has a 89% approval rating with a whopping 74 reviews. I wouldn't buy from that guy. Everyone else is $50 or more. Fact check.
http://www.amazon.co...=A2H39PMINAVQFP
Quietness wrote...
This is true, the amazon portion wasn't the best example (as long as we ignore the SR3 portion... that dropping in price was not all too surprising). What i find disturbing is the Origin deal going this weekend.. Batman is a little older but still 9.99 if you buy ME3? That is kinda looking towards trying to boost your numbers before Q1 ends.
Modifié par thebatmanreborn, 17 mars 2012 - 09:54 .
Syrellaris wrote...
pomrink wrote...
Syrellaris wrote...
pomrink wrote...
http://www.amazon.co...ix=mass,aps,211
40 dollars new.
Doesnt say a thing...its actually pretty normal as someone else explained earlier.
Do you have any proof it is normal beyond ancedotal information?
plenty, altough no screenshots or anything (and no I am not going to take photographs in stores either haha)
As the poster said, a page back. Plenty of stores lower the price after a week, some after 2 and some later then that. I have found that to be true around my own area as well. For example, a store near me will sell the game new for 60 bucks on release. if I wait a week, the price will have dropped to 49.95.
There is a few stores that will sell the game 44.95 new on release day as well.
pomrink wrote...
thebatmanreborn wrote...
pomrink wrote...
http://www.amazon.co...ix=mass,aps,211
40 dollars new.
Yes, now click on that link. Who is selling it for $39.99? Xboxer Storefront. He only has a 89% approval rating with a whopping 74 reviews. I wouldn't buy from that guy. Everyone else is $50 or more. Fact check.
http://www.amazon.co...=A2H39PMINAVQFP
The fact that it's listed at that price will allow other retailers to drop their price to stay competative.
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