9972 réponses à ce sujet

[EmEr77]

AdrianHD wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...

I feel bad for Lee and truly all at BioWare. As an amateur writer, I know firsthand how negative reaction to work you put a lot effort into and love can hurt.

If you truly are an amateur writer, I question why you're supporting this. I write as well and it's a horrible thought to know that my work isn't controlled by me, but controlled by the fanbase.

As an amateur writer, AND an English Major with an emphasis in creative writing about to receive her B.A., AND a student instructor, I'm going to give you a piece of advice that's going to carry you through those tough moments in your life when you begin to doubt yourself:

You are not a perfect writer, and you should never become so in love with a piece of writing you've created, that you cannot part from it, or be willing to accept negative criticism for it. Otherwise, you'll never improve. What is the difference between a fanbase, and having a class, or someone knowledgable workshop a piece of your writing, so that you can see where you can make changes? Nothing. There is no difference. The ending to the Mass Effect series is being workshopped right now on a gigantic scale, and the vast majority of criticism is wholly constructive. We are asking BioWare to give us the ending that we were all promised by the creative team themselves. We are asking BioWare to live up to everything that they have established for themselves over the years--and good writers, listen, and make changes when there is something seriously wrong. Now... this has nothing really to do with the creative team as much as it is now in the hands of the corporations themselves, but we'll see what happens. 

[cyrrant]

atghunter wrote...
Continue to be civil, stand up and be heard no matter what side you believe in.  I will be standing right with you!

I've agreed with atghunter's posts from the get-go, but this is the most important part imo.  Continue to engage on all fronts, but don't descend into the rabid fanboy mob that the media wants so desperately to paint us as.

Hold the Line

Modifié par cyrrant, 17 mars 2012 - 10:41 .

[Andur4]

Said it once but I'll say it again, I love this thread.

Lot of great information here, and we should defiantly use it.
While I'm not much of an organizer, I've thus far stayed off ME3, both single and multiplayer, so hurting their numbers I hope.

Perhaps there should be a singular thread or poll that best summarizes what we want to achieve? If there is one it's kinda lost among the rapidly moving forums.

Gonna keep holding the line meantime.

[c3pu2]

the thing that realy bugs me here is that how in hell did no one involved realised that the ending didnt work i mean there was voice actor, programer, writher, producer, tester. and no one at any stage said hey stop this makes no sence we cant do that

[Khyrradas]

cyrrant wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...

What I'm trying to get at is to let it go. You're pressuring Bioware much more than they need to be. Grunt and Thane were so awesome in this and the Kai Leng Renegade option is easily one of the most memorable moments in gaming for me. I'm not going to let an ending destroy that. It's about the journey and not the destination.

Simply telling other people that they should be happy with the journey (a great journey) and forgive a terrible destination doesn't work.  Some of us have been waiting for the destination for 5 years, and when we got there, it was like the World's Biggest Ball of Twine.  HUGE letdown...I'm talking massive here...I am a guy in his mid-20's, and I cried, not because the ending was moving or bittersweet or any of that, but because the Mass Effect series did not deserve to end that way.

We are customers and we paid for the game, and we have every right to pressue the people who made it into making it satisfactory, just as you have the right to pressure them to keep it the same.  But telling people to "let it go"?  Not on my watch.

Hold the Line

^^^^

This made me happy.  I always get irritated whenever someone pulls that line.  Thank you sir!

Holding the Line!

Modifié par Khyrradas, 17 mars 2012 - 10:44 .

[mrderp27]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

LoboFH wrote...

I've posted the Boycott proposal in the MassEffect Community Group and the public forum of the most important videgames website in spanish language.

Looks like we're getting some help from shadow team! Hold the line, men! Hold the line!

+100 war assets

[ericjdev]

cyrrant wrote...

atghunter wrote...
Continue to be civil, stand up and be heard no matter what side you believe in.  I will be standing right with you!

I've agreed with atghunter's posts from the get-go, but this is the most important part imo.  Continue to engage on all fronts, but don't descend into the rabid fanboy mob that the media wants so desperately to paint us as.

Hold the Line

Truth

[OneWithTheAssassins]

I think we should make a pact to not play mulitiplayer, not share our data with Bioware, not even use Origin or buy any DLC until they meet our demands as consumers.
And if they meet our demands for a beter ending, we'll promote any future tilte from Bioware.

Post this everywhere and get people to join in this!

[Bufardo74]

Awesome thread! Kudos to all the insightful contributions. Holding the line!

[LordHelfort]

We need to organize a team that specifically does things like the above, posting in other language forums and elsewhere in addition to creating a bulletpoint list of our demands. I wonder if the super thread for the Endings is the best place or we should create a new one.

[MajorUhlan]

At the bottom of that Forbes article that was listed was a really great quote from a gentleman named Steve Schnare:

Too many people are hung up on the corporately created ‘entitled’ gaming masses; a term which allows game companies to get away with distributing inferior, and quite honestly defective (whereas a segment of a game makes no logical sense when compared to everything else in said game) products and then charge for DLC to ‘enhance’ the experience.

What the gaming community truly wants, truly desires are quality, complete games…and if the games are good, from start to finish, gamers are then still more likely to buy DLC to further enhance the experience, and to support a company that they come to care deeply about.

We’re no different than someone demanding a factory-faulty part on a car be fixed, the only difference is is that the faulty part we want fixed doesn’t have a physical manifestation.

What a great metaphor for what is being sought after from the movement, if not the consumer community as a whole - whether they agree with the movement or not.

[Lil One]

First post here. Wish it was under different circumstances, but there you go.

Thank you, Bachuck and atghunter for this thread, and thank you all who since then have added sensible, civil input. Together we can do this.


Reporting for duty. Hold the line.

Modifié par Lil One, 17 mars 2012 - 10:47 .

[Killer3000ad]

c3pu2 wrote...

the thing that realy bugs me here is that how in hell did no one involved realised that the ending didnt work i mean there was voice actor, programer, writher, producer, tester. and no one at any stage said hey stop this makes no sence we cant do that

The voice actors just follow what's on the script, the programmer just makes the engine work. Ultimately, the blame lies with the writers and project lead. As for the tester, they usually just test bugs. It's not like movies where they use test audiences.

So my question is, how did the same writing team that gave us the rest of ME3 managed to write these endings and how did the project lead just say,"Okay, it sounds good"?

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 17 mars 2012 - 10:46 .

[Turtlicious]

Here's the thread for the letter campaign enjoy.

http://social.biowar.../index/10146607

[Syrellaris]

atghunter wrote...

Greetings all. I see I've missed a bit.
 
I'm totally flattered by Forbes and the warm compliments here.  I am glad that Forbes are consistently locking in on pertinent issues. As I’ve said several times, given that my own PR experience is admittedly dated, the dynamics of what has happened in the last seven days is something relatively new and seems at times as part familiar old-school and part undiscovered country!
 
Quick aside:  I’ve had a number of folks send me e-mails asking if I’d suggest to them what to do next. First, again, I’m flattered to be asked. But, I’m just one voice and each of you has yours to do with as your conscience guides. One of the greatest strengths of this whole movement is that the outcry can be from anyone, young or old, all walks of life, and spanning the globe. Look at the diversity here, its impressive to say the least. PR guys ultimately love when diverse groups pick “leaders” since you can isolate/attack them personally, tear apart every word they say, and even try to supplant them with leaders more sympathetic to their cause. 
 
If needed, in time leaders will rise.  They always do.  Ultimately, right now Bioware/EA is less concerned with you, me, or anyone individually. Instead, they are taking note of the general hue and cry in this community and how it affects their bottom line. I don't believe personally for a moment the voices here are a minority.  But regardless, we are the only voice being heard and that alone has strength. 

Imagine you are on one side of a field and 30,000 people were all coming at you chanting the same message.  I, for one, wouldn't care who was leading them.  I'd just be looking around trying to get the heck out of their way.  
 
How have I personally responded? I wrote Bioware a scathing letter. Tore that one up and wrote a much more well-reasoned one and sent it. Returned my CE (I still have my Digital Deluxe), joined the Retake page, donated to Child’s Play, ceased playing the game, became more active here on the boards and find myself laughing every time I hear a Marauder Shields reference. Sometime tonight or tomorrow, I’ll post my endgame suggestions.
 
Others may wish to do more or less and social media groups can collectively agree to do things like letter writing campaigns, boycotts, etc. The thing that continues to amaze me about this thread is the civility of varied discourse. Some want a boycott, some don’t, etc. Share your thoughts, explain your position and then do as your conscience guides. 
 
Will some people opt for actions you disagree with to express their frustration? Yes. Disagree and discuss with the knowledge you often share more common ground than varried. To that end, I noted someone a few pages back started in with some fairly caustic criticisms towards the folks presently feeling disenfranchised. As the exchange continued, the poster lowered the incendiary tone, and threw in their two cents. And I applaud them, even in their criticism of my views. Like I said before, I am one voice. Do I have a perspective others may not have experienced? Yes. But one voice nonetheless.
 
Your own voices, your civil conviction to keep posting, your love of this game and disappointment at the ending have ultimately carried each of you further than the end of ME3 ever could.
 
Do I want a better ending? Dang right I do. Do I find myself honored to be standing with each of you? Beyond doubt.
 
Continue to be civil, stand up and be heard no matter what side you believe in.  I will be standing right with you!

I knew that was somewhat aimed at me perhaps? Also the reason i Criticized your posts (not all of them, just the first) is due to the false information given.

Anyway, I find it a shame players are returning there collectors editions or copies of the standard edition or even persuade others not to buy it. Surely, even if the ending is not waht you expected, you have to acknowledge the game itself is great up to the very end before the beam.

I am aware this is your way of striking against the current system, but it is just a darn shame.

[Solid N7]

atghunter wrote...

Greetings all. I see I've missed a bit.
 
I'm totally flattered by Forbes and the warm compliments here.  I am glad that Forbes are consistently locking in on pertinent issues. As I’ve said several times, given that my own PR experience is admittedly dated, the dynamics of what has happened in the last seven days is something relatively new and seems at times as part familiar old-school and part undiscovered country!
 
Quick aside:  I’ve had a number of folks send me e-mails asking if I’d suggest to them what to do next. First, again, I’m flattered to be asked. But, I’m just one voice and each of you has yours to do with as your conscience guides. One of the greatest strengths of this whole movement is that the outcry can be from anyone, young or old, all walks of life, and spanning the globe. Look at the diversity here, its impressive to say the least. PR guys ultimately love when diverse groups pick “leaders” since you can isolate/attack them personally, tear apart every word they say, and even try to supplant them with leaders more sympathetic to their cause. 
 
If needed, in time leaders will rise.  They always do.  Ultimately, right now Bioware/EA is less concerned with you, me, or anyone individually. Instead, they are taking note of the general hue and cry in this community and how it affects their bottom line. I don't believe personally for a moment the voices here are a minority.  But regardless, we are the only voice being heard and that alone has strength. 

Imagine you are on one side of a field and 30,000 people were all coming at you chanting the same message.  I, for one, wouldn't care who was leading them.  I'd just be looking around trying to get the heck out of their way.  
 
How have I personally responded? I wrote Bioware a scathing letter. Tore that one up and wrote a much more well-reasoned one and sent it. Returned my CE (I still have my Digital Deluxe), joined the Retake page, donated to Child’s Play, ceased playing the game, became more active here on the boards and find myself laughing every time I hear a Marauder Shields reference. Sometime tonight or tomorrow, I’ll post my endgame suggestions.
 
Others may wish to do more or less and social media groups can collectively agree to do things like letter writing campaigns, boycotts, etc. The thing that continues to amaze me about this thread is the civility of varied discourse. Some want a boycott, some don’t, etc. Share your thoughts, explain your position and then do as your conscience guides. 
 
Will some people opt for actions you disagree with to express their frustration? Yes. Disagree and discuss with the knowledge you often share more common ground than varried. To that end, I noted someone a few pages back started in with some fairly caustic criticisms towards the folks presently feeling disenfranchised. As the exchange continued, the poster lowered the incendiary tone, and threw in their two cents. And I applaud them, even in their criticism of my views. Like I said before, I am one voice. Do I have a perspective others may not have experienced? Yes. But one voice nonetheless.
 
Your own voices, your civil conviction to keep posting, your love of this game and disappointment at the ending have ultimately carried each of you further than the end of ME3 ever could.
 
Do I want a better ending? Dang right I do. Do I find myself honored to be standing with each of you? Beyond doubt.
 
Continue to be civil, stand up and be heard no matter what side you believe in.  I will be standing right with you!

Hold The line!!!1

[EmEr77]

Killer3000ad wrote...

c3pu2 wrote...

the thing that realy bugs me here is that how in hell did no one involved realised that the ending didnt work i mean there was voice actor, programer, writher, producer, tester. and no one at any stage said hey stop this makes no sence we cant do that

The voice actors just follow what's on the script, the programmer just makes the engine work. Ultimately, the blame lies with the writers and project lead. As for the tester, they usually just test bugs. It's not like movies where they use test audiences.

So my question is, how did the same writing team that gave us the rest of ME3 managed to write these endings and how did the project lead just say,"Okay, it sounds good"?

I've said this elsewhere somewhere in the massive swarm of posts on the forum:

There's a whole truckload of inner office politics that have really nothing to do with us. Something happened, something that will never be explained unless one of those office individuals comes out and speaks to us (which would obviously be against the wishes of EA and BioWare) so the best we can do (which is actually working out really well) is what we're doing.

Hold the line.

[xtorma]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

redknight38 wrote...

You will note that ATGhunter's post and the others in this thread was one of the few to warrant an official response. Yes, I know, reading into it too much and conspiracy theory, but it does make you take notice.

There's no voodoo at work here - I'm just sitting on my couch reading this on my iPad, it has been a difficult week, I'm very tired, and wanted to respond to some of the points made here. I just followed the link from the thread about Casey's post

Thank you.

[XTiferethX]

Hold the line

[Reidbynature]

atghunter wrote...

 
How have I personally responded? I wrote Bioware a scathing letter. Tore that one up and wrote a much more well-reasoned one and sent it. Returned my CE (I still have my Digital Deluxe), joined the Retake page, donated to Child’s Play, ceased playing the game, became more active here on the boards and find myself laughing every time I hear a Marauder Shields reference. Sometime tonight or tomorrow, I’ll post my endgame suggestions.
 

Yeah, I toyed with sending back my CE version of the game with a note saying "I surrender.  I can no longer participate in this franchise", but I can't really since there's still some hope and I'll hang onto the game until I feel there really is nothing that can be saved.  Also I thought the note is probably overly melodramatic for me, so it will probably be sitting in the bargain bin of whatever shop I trade it in secondhand if the franchise can't move forward from here.

Yes, Marauder Sheilds.  He is our leader!  Support him. 

http://social.biowar...9524/2#10131334

Modifié par Reidbynature, 17 mars 2012 - 10:59 .

[EvilMind]

SP is literally dead and MP is limited by 20 lvl, after that its only tedious low-reward time consuming (alot of crap in them) container farming. For how long that will keep players interested? I think bioware is aware of that and do they even care if people will stop playing? Right now Bioware/EA already got our money, we cant do anything to cause any significant financial losses.

However their reputation is at stake. But if they cared so much about their fans, would they ever made such an awful ending? Just sayin'

Modifié par EvilMind, 17 mars 2012 - 10:57 .

[Elvwood]

This is such a great post and after reading most of it I had to wonder if I was still playing the game
With all the PR stunts going on I feel as if they are trying to indoctrinate us to their will.
Thankfully I have the “Swiss GodChild” (Full Of holes) to snap me back to reality.
Correct me If I am wrong but didn’t it say it was part of the Citadel and not the Crucible
And wasn’t the crucible’s designs started by past civilizations and not by the Reapers.
Then How in hell did the GodChild know what the crucible would do.

Why would past civilizations build a device that would cripple their future by destroying the
Mass Relays and build into it such bizarre options as to completely merge Machine and Organics
Can anyone please explain this to me, or did I miss interpret something.

If I am correct then BW can you explain this.

[vigna]

Syrellaris wrote...

atghunter wrote...

Greetings all. I see I've missed a bit.
 
I'm totally flattered by Forbes and the warm compliments here.  I am glad that Forbes are consistently locking in on pertinent issues. As I’ve said several times, given that my own PR experience is admittedly dated, the dynamics of what has happened in the last seven days is something relatively new and seems at times as part familiar old-school and part undiscovered country!
 
Quick aside:  I’ve had a number of folks send me e-mails asking if I’d suggest to them what to do next. First, again, I’m flattered to be asked. But, I’m just one voice and each of you has yours to do with as your conscience guides. One of the greatest strengths of this whole movement is that the outcry can be from anyone, young or old, all walks of life, and spanning the globe. Look at the diversity here, its impressive to say the least. PR guys ultimately love when diverse groups pick “leaders” since you can isolate/attack them personally, tear apart every word they say, and even try to supplant them with leaders more sympathetic to their cause. 
 
If needed, in time leaders will rise.  They always do.  Ultimately, right now Bioware/EA is less concerned with you, me, or anyone individually. Instead, they are taking note of the general hue and cry in this community and how it affects their bottom line. I don't believe personally for a moment the voices here are a minority.  But regardless, we are the only voice being heard and that alone has strength. 

Imagine you are on one side of a field and 30,000 people were all coming at you chanting the same message.  I, for one, wouldn't care who was leading them.  I'd just be looking around trying to get the heck out of their way.  
 
How have I personally responded? I wrote Bioware a scathing letter. Tore that one up and wrote a much more well-reasoned one and sent it. Returned my CE (I still have my Digital Deluxe), joined the Retake page, donated to Child’s Play, ceased playing the game, became more active here on the boards and find myself laughing every time I hear a Marauder Shields reference. Sometime tonight or tomorrow, I’ll post my endgame suggestions.
 
Others may wish to do more or less and social media groups can collectively agree to do things like letter writing campaigns, boycotts, etc. The thing that continues to amaze me about this thread is the civility of varied discourse. Some want a boycott, some don’t, etc. Share your thoughts, explain your position and then do as your conscience guides. 
 
Will some people opt for actions you disagree with to express their frustration? Yes. Disagree and discuss with the knowledge you often share more common ground than varried. To that end, I noted someone a few pages back started in with some fairly caustic criticisms towards the folks presently feeling disenfranchised. As the exchange continued, the poster lowered the incendiary tone, and threw in their two cents. And I applaud them, even in their criticism of my views. Like I said before, I am one voice. Do I have a perspective others may not have experienced? Yes. But one voice nonetheless.
 
Your own voices, your civil conviction to keep posting, your love of this game and disappointment at the ending have ultimately carried each of you further than the end of ME3 ever could.
 
Do I want a better ending? Dang right I do. Do I find myself honored to be standing with each of you? Beyond doubt.
 
Continue to be civil, stand up and be heard no matter what side you believe in.  I will be standing right with you!

I knew that was somewhat aimed at me perhaps? Also the reason i Criticized your posts (not all of them, just the first) is due to the false information given.

Anyway, I find it a shame players are returning there collectors editions or copies of the standard edition or even persuade others not to buy it. Surely, even if the ending is not waht you expected, you have to acknowledge the game itself is great up to the very end before the beam.

I am aware this is your way of striking against the current system, but it is just a darn shame.

To most of us it isn't just one game it is a culmination of 2 games plus itself..  No doubt the journey was good, but the end destination was too disappointing.  A common theme in literature and some movies is that the final destination is ultimately unimportant--as the journey is the truly memorable part. while this may be true. A   2 hour movie or a 10 hour book is not a 100 hour video game where it really isn't just about the journey--although, admittedly,  a large part.
I felt like Clark Grizzwald arriving at Wally world.

[Lancane]

AdrianHD wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...

I feel bad for Lee and truly all at BioWare. As an amateur writer, I know firsthand how negative reaction to work you put a lot effort into and love can hurt.

If you truly are an amateur writer, I question why you're supporting this. I write as well and it's a horrible thought to know that my work isn't controlled by me, but controlled by the fanbase.

Doesn't matter if your an amateur or even a professional writer, some seem to equate the difference perceiving one as a form of art, which is understandable. However, if a major publishing house signs a writer to a book deal and the authors plan is to write a trilogy or even a cycle, the direction the series is directed could will be determined by the publishers in accordance with negative reviews, consumer input and sales, that is a substantial fact. If a novelist writes a standalone novel that receives heady criticism the publishing company can do no more then pull the novel or ask the author to revise it, if the author refuses then he or she will face the consequences which the publishers will they themselves decide. If that author writes a blockbuster entrance into the series but the second drops off or becomes controversial then they will step in, no matter the protest of the author and will deviate a plan to effectively make minor changes to the work that is satisfactory to the publishers goals...period.

It's much the same for film and television, if a film is made and the financing companies feel it lacks they can advise the director to make the appropriate changes to the final film before release, they even use screeners to garner the input of their most important critics, the film goers. If the director refuses he can purchase back the film therein paying back the financers for the film and try sell it to a different distribution company. Many movies have been lost or eventually released on home video formats due to this very issue, others were distrubited otherwise and either rose or fell due to the critics and or the lack of ticket sales. Television depends on ratings, no matter what critical acclaim a show does receive, the bottom line is viewers ala the consumers. So art in many forms is in fact directed by the consumer, one can go against the grain and seek to publish, develop or distribute their works through arthouse based companies that favor such works, in the end most find themselves in a situation they never predicted where their own felt masterpieces had a negative effect, even going so far as to ruin their careers in that field. 

Modifié par Lancane, 17 mars 2012 - 11:01 .

[Reidbynature]

Syrellaris wrote...

I knew that was somewhat aimed at me perhaps? Also the reason i Criticized your posts (not all of them, just the first) is due to the false information given.

Anyway, I find it a shame players are returning there collectors editions or copies of the standard edition or even persuade others not to buy it. Surely, even if the ending is not waht you expected, you have to acknowledge the game itself is great up to the very end before the beam.

I am aware this is your way of striking against the current system, but it is just a darn shame.

Not sure why you sound so surprised or even asked if it's bieng aimed at you.  He's clearly being complimentary towards you and encouraging people like yourself to speak your piece.

Though I've seen you outright say that what he says is just false, I've yet to see you articulate just what exactly he's saying is false and why.