9976 réponses à ce sujet

[Razorsteel]

"Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate."
Sun Tzu

[Ishiken]

sorentoft wrote...

The problem is, if it dies down, that people have moved on and left Bioware. That is a lot of future revenue thrown out the window and for what? Saving face? Come on, the best way to regain the trust of their fans, in order to ensure their next titles sell as well as ME3, is to be open and engaged with the community, not hiding in a bunker.

I agree. The moment I don't care to have ME3's ending changed is the moment I will never buy another Bioware game. Everytime I go shopping for a new game and I see the Bioware title, and it will bring back the moment when I remember that Bioware created the ME3 ending.

[Ezikio]

Holding the line

[Umbrellamage]

The greatest fear I have at this time is that if they pull a DAII and offer another game completely bundled with ME3, their sales will pick up substantially. Origin has already offered Arkham City for $10 when you buy ME3, after that it's just a short jump to "buy ME3, get another game for free.

[ref]

I doubt BioWare cares what the fans think of the ending, however they should at least see this as a money opportunity with the chance to not only fix their series and also gain back the support of loyal fans.

[Kralin Ignatov]

@atghunter and op, you guys are wonderful.

hold the line.

[Lozark]

hex23 wrote...

It would be a clever ruse if the complaints were about multi-player. 

I don't understand how playing multi-player this week end sends the message "we will be your customers anyway".  I do think they are trying to get our mind off the problem at hand as a form of damage control, but I seriously doubt they'll watch the MP numbers this week end like "yeah, we got them back!". There is a huge difference between playing free MP in a game you already own, and shelling out $60 on the next game they release.

And no, I don't plan on playing MP either, but it's because I have no desire to touch anything "Mass Effect" related until the end is fixed.

Bold added for emphasis.

Exactly~ Avoiding the MP will show that the franchise has taken a hit from their poor handling of the ending and the situation coming from it. Look at the OP, this is a faux-olive branch tactic to pacify us, to help them outlast our ire so that they can return to business as usual and never have to change anything about the ending. It will show them that we not only have numbers, we have unity and that we will stand together. If we can organize to not play the MP for this event, then we might organize again later on to really hit them in the pocketbook.

This is a shot across the bow, if you will, a warning shot. It lets them know that we have power, that we could do worse to them if it comes to that, and that by our grace we are giving them time to properly respond and address our issues before we take things to another level.

Keep in mind that the previous topic about standard PR tactics was locked - they don't want us to know that they're playing it by the book, because that makes it even easier for us to outmaneuver them.

Modifié par Lozark, 17 mars 2012 - 01:18 .

[nomoredruggs]

atghunter wrote...

Greetings All,
 
First, I’m flattered someone would repost this. Many thanks. 
 
A couple follow-up thoughts for those wondering what is likely going on with the other side of the mirror in the last couple days:
 
First, Operation Goliath, the free Star Wars online weekend, and the recent noncommittal overtures to listen are faux olive branches. Sorry. Customers intrinsically want to believe companies they patronize listen and when they stop believing that, the company has to say they are listening and do anything to get the detractors off-message.  There are a dozen names for this, but the most memorable was "The Shell Game." 
 
You will know that there’s a genuine need for dialogue in the corporate bunker when the message turns from “we’re listening” to “we acknowledge we may have a disconnect with our consumers and are willing to discuss a meaningful solution to the problem.” It signals an end to non-committed deflection and opening genuine talks to solve the problem (it’s knows as “Exposing Your Throat” btw). At present, you’ll notice Bioware/EA has only said they will “explain” the endings. That’s not a give, that’s a delay tactic.
 
But here’s the part that amazes me as an old PR guy and is totally new. The disenfranchised base here is changing the old methodology. It’s akin to comparing old-style bunker PR defenses to new blitzkrieg-style consumers. To date, the “bunker strategy” was always used because it was virtually foolproof. However, social media and the 24 hour news cycle have simply changed everything. Twenty years ago, you could not mass 30,000 protesters into a networked base without some luck, money, a GREAT cause and (most importantly) time. By the time you did get organized, folks were either burned out or lost interest. Groups like Take Back have altered the landscape and suddenly the contest is taken from the old paradigm to a crazy new (and wonderful IMO) place. Preorder sales took away customers biggest weapon in the past (i.e. don’t buy the product). Now customers who feel they have received poor value have been potentially re-empowered by the internet. Bioware/EA is feeling the full brunt of this thing while passion is hottest. They are deploying countermeasures faster than the old strategies ever would have ever suggested. To some degree, they are being outmaneuvered atm. But now it depends on how long the protest/outcry holds up.
 
Two more quick points and I’ll close. First, the Child’s Play movement was brilliant. Notice over the past few days how some of the most visceral detractors to the outcry have had to shift their vitriol from “you’re spoiled selfish haters” to “sure you gave to charity, but you are spoiled selfish haters.” Nobody is drinking that Kool-Aid. Better yet, some outlets are now saying “maybe the game has problem but its still art” from the precedent message “best game ever.” That won’t fly with the mainstream. If its one thing they know is that when “art” hits the marketplace, it is a commodity, nothing more. You’ve changed the countermeasures from "unbiased" critics of the movement into drum beaters simply trying to get you angry. EA’s PR guys probably envy you (grudgingly) atm.  
 
Second, don’t buy the only X people voted in the poll out of 1 billion customers, so they don’t care. That’s bunk. Are there "drum beaters" on both sides of this issue that just want to see controversy, sure. But if I was sitting in an office looking at that Bioware poll, I’d be reaching for a cigarette.
 
Finally remember, they have much more data at their disposal. They know how sales are going, how much time people are playing that are synced into Origin, etc. They will watch those numbers this weekend. If sales slow, watch for price cutting within 10 days (just over the two week US release date). It will mean that retailers are getting nervous and will slow new unit orders. As I’ve said before, this will come down to hard currency. If the protests start having an effect on that front, the response will come.
 
I’m an older gamer and again appreciate the repost. To everyone (on both sides) continue to let your voices be heard. You are consumers and have every right to engage in this discourse. The boards being locked yesterday proves someone is watching and knows this is an issue.  I'm in the hated-ending camp to be sure, but I admire everyone one of you who is arguing for what believe on both sides!

Cheers.

Many men may be willing to die heroically for a noble cause, but few men will live humbly for one.  Wilhelm Stekel   
 

Wow this post keeps getting better. Nice to have a bit of hope

[vigna]

atghunter wrote...

Greetings All,
 
First, I’m flattered someone would repost this. Many thanks. 
 
A couple follow-up thoughts for those wondering what is likely going on with the other side of the mirror in the last couple days:
 
First, Operation Goliath, the free Star Wars online weekend, and the recent noncommittal overtures to listen are faux olive branches. Sorry. Customers intrinsically want to believe companies they patronize listen and when they stop believing that, the company has to say they are listening and do anything to get the detractors off-message.  There are a dozen names for this, but the most memorable was "The Shell Game." 
 
You will know that there’s a genuine need for dialogue in the corporate bunker when the message turns from “we’re listening” to “we acknowledge we may have a disconnect with our consumers and are willing to discuss a meaningful solution to the problem.” It signals an end to non-committed deflection and opening genuine talks to solve the problem (it’s knows as “Exposing Your Throat” btw). At present, you’ll notice Bioware/EA has only said they will “explain” the endings. That’s not a give, that’s a delay tactic.
 
But here’s the part that amazes me as an old PR guy and is totally new. The disenfranchised base here is changing the old methodology. It’s akin to comparing old-style bunker PR defenses to new blitzkrieg-style consumers. To date, the “bunker strategy” was always used because it was virtually foolproof. However, social media and the 24 hour news cycle have simply changed everything. Twenty years ago, you could not mass 30,000 protesters into a networked base without some luck, money, a GREAT cause and (most importantly) time. By the time you did get organized, folks were either burned out or lost interest. Groups like Take Back have altered the landscape and suddenly the contest is taken from the old paradigm to a crazy new (and wonderful IMO) place. Preorder sales took away customers biggest weapon in the past (i.e. don’t buy the product). Now customers who feel they have received poor value have been potentially re-empowered by the internet. Bioware/EA is feeling the full brunt of this thing while passion is hottest. They are deploying countermeasures faster than the old strategies ever would have ever suggested. To some degree, they are being outmaneuvered atm. But now it depends on how long the protest/outcry holds up.
 
Two more quick points and I’ll close. First, the Child’s Play movement was brilliant. Notice over the past few days how some of the most visceral detractors to the outcry have had to shift their vitriol from “you’re spoiled selfish haters” to “sure you gave to charity, but you are spoiled selfish haters.” Nobody is drinking that Kool-Aid. Better yet, some outlets are now saying “maybe the game has problem but its still art” from the precedent message “best game ever.” That won’t fly with the mainstream. If its one thing they know is that when “art” hits the marketplace, it is a commodity, nothing more. You’ve changed the countermeasures from "unbiased" critics of the movement into drum beaters simply trying to get you angry. EA’s PR guys probably envy you (grudgingly) atm.  
 
Second, don’t buy the only X people voted in the poll out of 1 billion customers, so they don’t care. That’s bunk. Are there "drum beaters" on both sides of this issue that just want to see controversy, sure. But if I was sitting in an office looking at that Bioware poll, I’d be reaching for a cigarette.
 
Finally remember, they have much more data at their disposal. They know how sales are going, how much time people are playing that are synced into Origin, etc. They will watch those numbers this weekend. If sales slow, watch for price cutting within 10 days (just over the two week US release date). It will mean that retailers are getting nervous and will slow new unit orders. As I’ve said before, this will come down to hard currency. If the protests start having an effect on that front, the response will come.
 
I’m an older gamer and again appreciate the repost. To everyone (on both sides) continue to let your voices be heard. You are consumers and have every right to engage in this discourse. The boards being locked yesterday proves someone is watching and knows this is an issue.  I'm in the hated-ending camp to be sure, but I admire everyone one of you who is arguing for what believe on both sides!

Cheers.

Many men may be willing to die heroically for a noble cause, but few men will live humbly for one.  Wilhelm Stekel   
 

Thanks again!

[SandTrout]

More or less in-line with my current assumptions about the internal status of BioWare, though I don't have the PR background to cite specific practices like atghunter does.

I think if they expect this storm to blow over, when people get more upset about the ending the more the think and learn about it, that is a mistake, if an understandable one.

[BrotherFluffy]

We just need to remind them that we're still here and we mean what we said.

[dkear1]

boycotts do work, but the also do take time.

[VAIOMANIAC]

nomoredruggs wrote...

atghunter wrote...

Greetings All,
 
First, I’m flattered someone would repost this. Many thanks. 
 
A couple follow-up thoughts for those wondering what is likely going on with the other side of the mirror in the last couple days:
 
First, Operation Goliath, the free Star Wars online weekend, and the recent noncommittal overtures to listen are faux olive branches. Sorry. Customers intrinsically want to believe companies they patronize listen and when they stop believing that, the company has to say they are listening and do anything to get the detractors off-message.  There are a dozen names for this, but the most memorable was "The Shell Game." 
 
You will know that there’s a genuine need for dialogue in the corporate bunker when the message turns from “we’re listening” to “we acknowledge we may have a disconnect with our consumers and are willing to discuss a meaningful solution to the problem.” It signals an end to non-committed deflection and opening genuine talks to solve the problem (it’s knows as “Exposing Your Throat” btw). At present, you’ll notice Bioware/EA has only said they will “explain” the endings. That’s not a give, that’s a delay tactic.
 
But here’s the part that amazes me as an old PR guy and is totally new. The disenfranchised base here is changing the old methodology. It’s akin to comparing old-style bunker PR defenses to new blitzkrieg-style consumers. To date, the “bunker strategy” was always used because it was virtually foolproof. However, social media and the 24 hour news cycle have simply changed everything. Twenty years ago, you could not mass 30,000 protesters into a networked base without some luck, money, a GREAT cause and (most importantly) time. By the time you did get organized, folks were either burned out or lost interest. Groups like Take Back have altered the landscape and suddenly the contest is taken from the old paradigm to a crazy new (and wonderful IMO) place. Preorder sales took away customers biggest weapon in the past (i.e. don’t buy the product). Now customers who feel they have received poor value have been potentially re-empowered by the internet. Bioware/EA is feeling the full brunt of this thing while passion is hottest. They are deploying countermeasures faster than the old strategies ever would have ever suggested. To some degree, they are being outmaneuvered atm. But now it depends on how long the protest/outcry holds up.
 
Two more quick points and I’ll close. First, the Child’s Play movement was brilliant. Notice over the past few days how some of the most visceral detractors to the outcry have had to shift their vitriol from “you’re spoiled selfish haters” to “sure you gave to charity, but you are spoiled selfish haters.” Nobody is drinking that Kool-Aid. Better yet, some outlets are now saying “maybe the game has problem but its still art” from the precedent message “best game ever.” That won’t fly with the mainstream. If its one thing they know is that when “art” hits the marketplace, it is a commodity, nothing more. You’ve changed the countermeasures from "unbiased" critics of the movement into drum beaters simply trying to get you angry. EA’s PR guys probably envy you (grudgingly) atm.  
 
Second, don’t buy the only X people voted in the poll out of 1 billion customers, so they don’t care. That’s bunk. Are there "drum beaters" on both sides of this issue that just want to see controversy, sure. But if I was sitting in an office looking at that Bioware poll, I’d be reaching for a cigarette.
 
Finally remember, they have much more data at their disposal. They know how sales are going, how much time people are playing that are synced into Origin, etc. They will watch those numbers this weekend. If sales slow, watch for price cutting within 10 days (just over the two week US release date). It will mean that retailers are getting nervous and will slow new unit orders. As I’ve said before, this will come down to hard currency. If the protests start having an effect on that front, the response will come.
 
I’m an older gamer and again appreciate the repost. To everyone (on both sides) continue to let your voices be heard. You are consumers and have every right to engage in this discourse. The boards being locked yesterday proves someone is watching and knows this is an issue.  I'm in the hated-ending camp to be sure, but I admire everyone one of you who is arguing for what believe on both sides!

Cheers.

Many men may be willing to die heroically for a noble cause, but few men will live humbly for one.  Wilhelm Stekel   
 

Wow this post keeps getting better. Nice to have a bit of hope

Yeah this certainly gave me a boost:O

[SouperTrooper]

To be honest I've sort of gotten over the ending, or lack thereof as far as being angry goes but I don't intend to buy another game produced by Bioware till they do right by their fans.

[atghunter]

Razorsteel wrote...

"Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate."
Sun Tzu

Sun Tzu is every PR guys secret hero.

[VerdantSF]

Atghunter definitely qualifies as a War Asset !

[cheeseburg]

I had guessed they're all sitting at the board room table scratching their heads. I don't think Bioware can win a war of attrition with the internet. There are a lot of people, like the original quotee, that are keeping us informed of the tactics of a company like Bioware and general useful information. I hope the rage within the community stays strong, we all know what's at stake.

[Zafervnn]

IMO understanding their tactic is the first and major step ( my respect to you sir good Agthunter ). But do not forget that we also have to gather enough strength and determination to fight against an established corporate way of running, and its going to be freaking hard.

Modifié par Zafervnn, 17 mars 2012 - 01:36 .

[BrotherFluffy]

Casey Hudson just made a statement. He mentioned the unhappiness of fans about the ending, but it was more of a "hey, people are mad," than actually addressing the issue. Still, the fact that he's mentioning it means we are having an effect. Hold the line!

[Necroscope]

cheeseburg wrote...

I had guessed they're all sitting at the board room table scratching their heads. I don't think Bioware can win a war of attrition with the internet. There are a lot of people, like the original quotee, that are keeping us informed of the tactics of a company like Bioware and general useful information. I hope the rage within the community stays strong, we all know what's at stake.

Yeah, exactly.

Even if they won't change the endings, I'm sure this whole situtation will teach them a lesson.

Hold the line!

Modifié par Necroscope, 17 mars 2012 - 01:40 .

[Timforsgren]

We need to be persistant, like the krogan, adapt and counter strike.

HOLD. THE. LINE.

[SaintlPatrick]

Wouldn't it be just great if Bioware's next title didn't sell one single copy? I know I won't be getting it.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Lozark wrote...

hex23 wrote...

It would be a clever ruse if the complaints were about multi-player. 

I don't understand how playing multi-player this week end sends the message "we will be your customers anyway".  I do think they are trying to get our mind off the problem at hand as a form of damage control, but I seriously doubt they'll watch the MP numbers this week end like "yeah, we got them back!". There is a huge difference between playing free MP in a game you already own, and shelling out $60 on the next game they release.

And no, I don't plan on playing MP either, but it's because I have no desire to touch anything "Mass Effect" related until the end is fixed.

Bold added for emphasis.

Exactly~ Avoiding the MP will show that the franchise has taken a hit from their poor handling of the ending and the situation coming from it. Look at the OP, this is a faux-olive branch tactic to pacify us, to help them outlast our ire so that they can return to business as usual and never have to change anything about the ending. It will show them that we not only have numbers, we have unity and that we will stand together. If we can organize to not play the MP for this event, then we might organize again later on to really hit them in the pocketbook.

This is a shot across the bow, if you will, a warning shot. It lets them know that we have power, that we could do worse to them if it comes to that, and that by our grace we are giving them time to properly respond and address our issues before we take things to another level.

Keep in mind that the previous topic about standard PR tactics was locked - they don't want us to know that they're playing it by the book, because that makes it even easier for us to outmaneuver them.

Well said!

People please don't touch anything that has the bioware or EA logo on it.  if we keep this up we can win,I have a feeling we are very close to victory. All this PR spin and trying to talk us down with out coming out and saying new ending DLC is because they don't want to give it to us but they know if this movement doesn't fizzle out soon they will have to because stockholders don't like seeing any lost sales no matter how small when the problem could be fix. We just have to stay on target and stick together and we can win.  Don't forget to send your letters intot Bioware tomorrow so they will have that to deal with too.

Hold the line as long as it take people.

[kyrieee]

"(to wit: the leads comments yesterday)"

What is this in reference to?

[GorrilaKing]

Heh, even if the protests quiet down a bit, do they really think the asian market is going to take this any differently? They might not mind a tragic end (tragic endings are quite a proud tradition in many japanese/chinese works) but they certainly will not accept this bs. I'll bet you my shoes in about 3-4 days we will have a new influx of protesters.