613 réponses à ce sujet

[Zalitara]

I loved the DA:O endings. In that game there were actually multiple endings as well, you could go for sacrifise, you could **** out and sacrifise someone else, or you could make a bittersweet deal to save everyone. I am one of those people that really perfers that the hero lives, and I have been open about that, and DA:O did it perfectly, yeah I survived, but not without cost, I sat for over an hour with the dialogue open because I couldn't make up my mind about the deal.

[spartan5127]

This guy knows. DA:O had an awesome ending. Whether you choose to have your hero live or die, it was an incredibly satisfying ending. Just take this guys logic and apply it to ME3.

Modifié par spartan5127, 17 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[anlk92]

Yep, this is why you don't end your hero's story with him becoming the b**** of a genocidal child.

[dakphillips]

I like this human, he understands!



I know it's been said several times, but really. This guy gets it.

[Valk72]

He is definitly holding the line!

[Baronesa]

Really wonderful...

BioWare should get this man back...


I loved Dragon Age: Origins... and remember, you had one ending with your character going kaput... and the funeral scene afterwards? that was good.. that is how you properly do sacrifice ending, not the *fill it with your own words* we got

[Tony208]

Zalitara wrote...

I loved the DA:O endings. In that game there were actually multiple endings as well, you could go for sacrifise, you could **** out and sacrifise someone else, or you could make a bittersweet deal to save everyone. I am one of those people that really perfers that the hero lives, and I have been open about that, and DA:O did it perfectly, yeah I survived, but not without cost, I sat for over an hour with the dialogue open because I couldn't make up my mind about the deal.

I went for almost all of the endings and it didn't matter whether I died or not, they were all satisfying.

Modifié par Tony208, 17 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[TiaraBlade]

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.
When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.
On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.
It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note."

The above is extremely important; the vast majority of gamers want a happy ending, especially in a large RPG and it doesn't come much longer than the combined play through of ME1-3.

Every now and then, I see people who want developers of RPG to be "brave" and have your standard RPG where you try to save the world end in failure.

Those people are idiots. We don't want to put in dozens of hours to lose by design; why bother? It's the game and developer telling us, "hah-hah, you stink! Nothing you did over all that time mattered!"

That is how it felt with ME3, nothing we did seemed to matter. Get you forces high enough and at least the earth doesn't blow up but we never got a truly satisfying ending and the alliance we forged and dreams we fufilled (like the Quarians getting their homeworld back, Wrex leading his people into a new era of hope) were undone.

Knowles gets that. Even if you consider that it's possible to end DA:O dead, it's an heroic sacrifice that you as the player CHOSE to make and that is satisfying. Bioware forgot that which is really sad since so much of ME3 was incredible.

The best ending, whatever it is, should have been achievable in the single play through and it wasn't, since it is impossible to get 10K war assets (5K effective strength with a 50% readiness). Something like this would have worked better:

1. If you don't do the side quests or just choose really poorly, earth blows up and Reapers win... the cycle continues.

2. Get enough resources and the reapers are beaten but the fleet is so scattered after the battle that no one is in posistion to pick you up as the Citadel goes down.

3. Get some more resources and you ahve the choice: the fleet can try to break through to rescue you but the dying Reapers are not going gently into that night. You can issue the order to make the attempt and they suceed but maybe something big happens like you lose a faction or lose the Normandy with some of your teammates on it. Or you decide it's too risky and accept your death, telling them that it's been an honor and telling your love interest how much you love him or her.

4. Get even more resources and the fleet roars through the reapers without losses and the Normandy rescues you, your own lose interest helping to pull you in.

Perhaps if you resolved the Geth/Quarians war and had Jeff/Edi fall in love such that some of the Reapers might even realize that they don't have to reap anymore and either leave the fight or turn on the other reapers. You could get the better endings with less resources. If you wiped out either Geth or Quarian, this just proves that the Star Child is right and you need more resources. Maybe if you get EDI onto the Citadel, she can interface with the Reapers (possiblly at the cost of her life) to reveal that she fights for the organics because she believes in them and even loves one.

Just some ideas but in the above, your actions through the game matter and you get to make that choice of sacrafice rather than having it forced upon you. As long as the reapers are beaten, you get a good ending where you see what happens aftewards: the galaxy rebuilding and old eminities cast aside for new friendships. If you died, there is a funeral attended by dignitaries who survived and your eulogy is delivered that highlights what you did over three games. Your love interest, if appropriate, might have something to remember you by (like Liara) and the station where the N7 program is located is renamed after Shepherd.

Live, and you also get an ending that touches on so many of your choices and Shep is considering whether he/she will continue to be a Spectre, be a diplomat if Paragon or something else if Renegade, and possibly even marry their LI.

Meaningful, unique, shaped by your choices, cathartic, heroic, and providing not only closure but a future as well. It's what the fans wanted after so long and Bioware failed to deliver in favor of some last minute swerve to be all cool and "polarizing."

Modifié par TiaraBlade, 17 mars 2012 - 12:48 .

[Amagoi]

God, he makes SUCH good sense. It hurts my heart when a former Bioware developer says something that makes that much sense and understands how we feel.

What the crap man. I want to meet this guy's games.

[Icinix]

Video games are not movies.
Movies are not books.
Books are not Video games.

Games are the unique combination of movies, books and art.

What seperates them from static art, books and movies is that the player engages and changes the game world with their actions.

Games are an interactive engaging art form that the player has the right to sculpt in a way with their choices. Its not by committee, its not by a democratic process - its by the constraints the developers have set.

Where the ending of Mass Effect 3 fails is it has ignored all of those factors in the last few moments. It tries to end like an art house movie.

One of the defining features of the Mass Effect series has been the debates about saving the Rachni, saving the council, keeping the base, cerberus goals and motivations, the game is about creating engaging discussion about morality.

The game takes all of that away regardless of choice to create a new canvas for the Mass Effect Galaxy. The ending by its very nature goes against EVERYTHING Mass Effect set out to be and indeed became.

Which is exactly why I don't believe the endings are done with yet.....

[Hanabii]

YOU SHOULD READ THIS BIOWARE STAFF!

[Bigdoser]

Amagoi wrote...

God, he makes SUCH good sense. It hurts my heart when a former Bioware developer says something that makes that much sense and understands how we feel.

What the crap man. I want to meet this guy's games.

Heh it just makes it worse how IGN and all the other outlets attack us yet an old bioware developer agree's with us. I think current bioware staff should read what brent says and take note if they do a ending dlc or future games. 

Modifié par Bigdoser, 17 mars 2012 - 12:42 .

[Versus Omnibus]

I'm Commander Shepard, and that was the best statement on the Citadel.

[EvilChani]

He totally nailed it. All of it.

[TiaraBlade]

Ruari wrote...

Valah79 wrote...

Oh man so well put, where is this guy working now, I gotta buy his video games!

I never really enjoyed DA all that much, but... DA:O > ME3 at this point if only because I could replay it and see "oh, so this choice did that!" with that ending epilogue.

I don't mind a sad ending to some games, it fit pretty well in L.A. Noire, but not ME. We love Shepard because he can do the impossible. He had become many of us over all these years of saving the galaxy. And then to not be able to have any effect on his destiny....it's just wrong.

Bolding by me. This is so true. I was relating ME3 to some friends and I found myself saying, "I did this" or "I did that" rather than "my character did this." Shepherd was out avatar, the person that many of us would want to be and hope we could be in those circumstances. It's just one fo many reasons why we were so emotionally invested in the game and so let down by the ending.

if we were playing "Space Marine" first person shooter and got an ending like ME3 after 10 hours of gameplay, we'd just shrug our shoulders. 100-200 hours of investment into Mass Effect though and we want so much more.

[ldcfirebird]

Brent Knowles has made some amazing games. Since his departure, Bioware doesn't seem to have the same magic they used to have.

[Denethar]

A man worthy of great respect, both for his work and his insight into what people want.

Modifié par Denethar, 17 mars 2012 - 12:45 .

[Asepsis]

Zalitara wrote...

I loved the DA:O endings. In that game there were actually multiple endings as well, you could go for sacrifise, you could **** out and sacrifise someone else, or you could make a bittersweet deal to save everyone. I am one of those people that really perfers that the hero lives, and I have been open about that, and DA:O did it perfectly, yeah I survived, but not without cost, I sat for over an hour with the dialogue open because I couldn't make up my mind about the deal.

SO TRUE! DA:O was epic and amazing with its endings. I really loved it. DA:O is still the best Dragon Age game in my books (I did enjoy DA2).

And YES, real life is crappy enough, I want to feel good while I'm playing a game, not unfulfilled and depressed.

[Tony208]

TiaraBlade wrote...

Ruari wrote...

Valah79 wrote...

Oh man so well put, where is this guy working now, I gotta buy his video games!

I never really enjoyed DA all that much, but... DA:O > ME3 at this point if only because I could replay it and see "oh, so this choice did that!" with that ending epilogue.

I don't mind a sad ending to some games, it fit pretty well in L.A. Noire, but not ME. We love Shepard because he can do the impossible. He had become many of us over all these years of saving the galaxy. And then to not be able to have any effect on his destiny....it's just wrong.

Bolding by me. This is so true. I was relating ME3 to some friends and I found myself saying, "I did this" or "I did that" rather than "my character did this." Shepherd was out avatar, the person that many of us would want to be and hope we could be in those circumstances. It's just one fo many reasons why we were so emotionally invested in the game and so let down by the ending.

if we were playing "Space Marine" first person shooter and got an ending like ME3 after 10 hours of gameplay, we'd just shrug our shoulders. 100-200 hours of investment into Mass Effect though and we want so much more.

Great point, you didn't always talk about Shepard in third person.

It was always I spared Wrex or I saved Ashley and all that.

Modifié par Tony208, 17 mars 2012 - 12:48 .

[krinst]

This guy is awesome!
No wonder I loved (and still play!) DA:O

[Ianamus]

I agree with him completely, with all of his points, and you can see how they were applied in the ending to Dragon Age: Origins.

Mass Effect 3's ending was just a total flop, and Bioware will have to admit that sooner or later. "We wanted a vague ending" just doesn't cut it, not when 98% of people who voted on the largest poll this website has ever seen disliked it.

Modifié par EJ107, 17 mars 2012 - 12:48 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

do you think when bioware sees something like this they go AH! **** why couldn't he have kept his trap closed

[Bigdoser]

Its sad that bioware these days don't really understand this. Well I just have to hope that bioware read this topic and learns from what brent said.

[MustacheManatee]

Dragon Age Origins is so great, it's very mention lifts my spirits.

Well said sir, well said.