613 réponses à ce sujet

[daguest]

Vandicus wrote...

So Mass Effect 3 needs epilogue text and either a funeral scene(for those people whose Shepard died) or an after party and it will have mastered the legendary DA:O ending. Oh yes, and it should be up beat like the falsely advertised "dark and gritty" Dragon Age Origins.

Oh no, a deus ex machina child saying nonsense to a stupid shepard who can't answer anyway, and the choice between 3 colorful explosions is better ! And instead of epilogue text, a random discussion between 2 peoples on a picture from a metal clip.
Oh wait, they did it, right ?

[RLesueur]

He totally understands.

[Orenen]

"I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point.

It is a game. Not a movie.

And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.

Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.

Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in general I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.

On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.

It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note."

I love that man, all the more reason I've played DA:O and not DA2

Modifié par Orenen, 17 mars 2012 - 01:29 .

[Subject M]

Blind2Society wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

I though people didnt want a happy ending? Now you show your real faces

I, myself, never denied that I wanted the option for a happy ending. The happy one would be the only one I would choose but I most certainly do not want to deny others their options.

Simply put and true.

[ref]

I respect this man so dearly, not only because he was the lead designer on DA:O which was IMO, BioWare's last great game but because he just plain understands.

[Elios]

Joykilledme wrote...

Legend78731 wrote...

Brent Knowles, who was the lead designer on Dragon Age: Origins, and one of the old guard Bioware developers (Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights), and, when he quit Bioware, made the interesting observation that "Bioware is no longer the company I remember". He's talked a little bit about the ME3 situation on his blog, but they're mainly comments to other posts. Check it out at: www.brentknowles.com

One thing he did say, I thought I would share (if it's already been posted, I apologize), as it's a sentiment I happen to agree with:

"I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point.
It is a game. Not a movie.
And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.
Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.
Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in general I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:
1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.
2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.
When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.
On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.
It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note."

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!

Bioware!!! TAKE SOME DAMN! NOTES!!!!!!

they did take notes remember "Lots of speculation for everyone" TROLOLOL

[martiancake]

This is so spot on and just makes me suspect something happened. They ran out of money. Someone's dog ate the script. The Blogons threatened to take their monkeys.

[Animositisomina]

Tony208 wrote...

Legend78731 wrote...

DA:O was so concerned about the "ending experience", they wrote different music that would play over the end credits depending on what ending you got.

ME:3 used a Google image for theirs.

Wow that's amazing, I'll have to be aware of that next time I play.

Just type "space winter" into Google's image search. It's the very. first. result.

[Statulos]

Even in the case of dying I wanted and and that confirms the Para Rescue motto: "so othes may live".

[Zulmoka531]

"Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it"

See, this quote right here already put him above the "mainstream" media retorts.
Toss in everything else he added, and you've got yourself some massive appreciation.

[TiaraBlade]

iakus wrote...

And this is why DAO was the last really good game Bioware made

Mass Effect 2 rocked, Dragon Age 2 had potential but they tried to change it up too much and didn't have the time to make it what it could have been.

As for ME3, really it was possibly the greatest game I ever played until I got to the final mission base (annoyed that I couldn't save my game and it just went downhill from there with the never ending waves to defend the missles. Then of course, that final run..)

So 95% of ME3 was incredible but sadly the last 5% ruined it and the entire series. Who knew that so little could have so much impact? Then again, that's a great analogy for Shepherd: one man or one woman who is able to break a cycle of devestation that goes back millions of years. Poetic if also tragic.

[AdeptusAstartes]

Animositisomina wrote...

Tony208 wrote...

Legend78731 wrote...

DA:O was so concerned about the "ending experience", they wrote different music that would play over the end credits depending on what ending you got.

ME:3 used a Google image for theirs.

Wow that's amazing, I'll have to be aware of that next time I play.

Just type "space winter" into Google's image search. It's the very. first. result.

Mother. Of......

[Jonas TM]

Subject M wrote...

As I stated in earlier....

This guy know this, he did DAO after all...

I was never able to force myself to finish DA:O, so I can't comment on his ability.  I was bored to tears 2/3 of the way through and hated most of the companion characters (i I could have fed Alistair and Morrigan to the dragon I would have done so happily).  And that is coming form someone who played all the NWN and expansions half a dozen times at minimum.

[BBK4114]

connordavisj wrote...

Didn't he abandon ship when they were making Dragon Age II? Smart guy. :3

I don't think it was that simple, unfortunately. You need to read his blogs about his time at Bioware, they are...very interesting. 

BTW-a day or two ago he replied to one of Erik Kain's blogs. I fangasmed  &  told him he needed to make video games again because RPGer's needed him. Then I relented and wished him big sales for his book and hoped his writer's life was everything he'd dreamt.  He thanked me for the kind words.  


I miss the old Bioware....

[VAIOMANIAC]

greengoron89 wrote...

Fitting that the lead designer of what is IMHO Bioware's crowning jewel would be the one to tell it like it is.

The Irony is not lost on me or the staff at Bioware either I think, man this just keeps going.

Bioware have to do this very carefully this will either make or break the company

[Subject M]

Jonas TM wrote...

Subject M wrote...

Some deaths are always unavoidable.Especially if they die because of their own choices.

^This, a 1000 times this.

Just like in real life people make their own choices, you can't save everyone.  The suicide mission gave a lot of people a false since of invulnerability since that they could always get a perfect ending I think.  That is something I am glad they changed in this one.  The inevitable loss is powerful IMO and the Legion part was well done.

All the deaths was very touching and meaningful.. It also made you even happier when Grunt actually made it! Tough son of a tank!

Modifié par Subject M, 17 mars 2012 - 01:32 .

[Vandicus]

daguest wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

So Mass Effect 3 needs epilogue text and either a funeral scene(for those people whose Shepard died) or an after party and it will have mastered the legendary DA:O ending. Oh yes, and it should be up beat like the falsely advertised "dark and gritty" Dragon Age Origins.

Oh no, a deus ex machina child saying nonsense to a stupid shepard who can't answer anyway, and the choice between 3 colorful explosions is better ! And instead of epilogue text, a random discussion between 2 peoples on a picture from a metal clip.
Oh wait, they did it, right ?

My comment is not sarcasm so much as an observation. This is the bar, as strange as it is, we use to measure bioware games by. The lack of a text epilogue was a huge complaint about the DA2 ending for people as well. I admit I've always been a bit annoyed by the advertisement of Dragon Age Origins as dark and gritty when it is a rainbows and sunshine high fantasy game, but really that's the ending that this lead designer is suggesting(though it seems a vast majority of the fans care more about the epilogue bit than the happy up beat note part).

[Animositisomina]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

"Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it"

See, this quote right here already put him above the "mainstream" media retorts.
Toss in everything else he added, and you've got yourself some massive appreciation.

I actually find that that somewhat lessens what he has to say. He's never even played the game, let alone seen the ending for himself first-hand. Yet here he is, telling us why it's so bad.

[Jonas TM]

Subject M wrote...

All the deaths was very touching and meaningful.. It also made you even happier when Grunt actually made it! Tough son of a tank!

Yeah I was very sad when I thought Grunt was dead.  I blamed myself for having to save the queen to fight in the war effort.  When he came stumbling out of the cave I was beyond relieved.  I didn't realize how much I liked Grunt until tha tmoment.  He was very loyal.

EDIT: I would trade Vega for Grunt 1000x over.

Modifié par Jonas TM, 17 mars 2012 - 01:36 .

[pors88]

Great find.
I agree 100% with his comments.

Is it possible that BW is planning an expansion pack or ME4 to finish off the Shepard story, and in fact this is the 'middle bleak' game?

We all know that BW have not delivered on everything that they were originally promising.
Perhaps due to time constraints they have decided to change the original plan for ME3 and change the ending to the one we got.
They did state recently that they were under time pressures to the point where in November they were still discussing the ending,

I would not be suprised at all if they announce that this in fact is not the final chapter as they did have time to do everything that they wanted and still meet the release date,

This would also support them advising everyone to hold on to our save games.

All we can do now is wait for an official statement from them.

[Subject M]

greengoron89 wrote...

Fitting that the lead designer of what is IMHO Bioware's crowning jewel would be the one to tell it like it is.

Sorry but I LOLed when I read this and saw your Shep-avatars expression..

[sangy]

Dragon Age Origins, one of my favorite games ever. I totally agree with Brent Knowles. I think he pretty much knows exactly what everyone was expecting from the ME3 ending. It's nice to see it coming from him.

Sadly, I didn't know he was the lead designer for DA:O. I know Mike Laidlaw was the lead for DA2. When I saw the title to this thread I thought it was from Mike L. I got excited to see what he had to say. Since he is still very much with Bioware he is probably not allowed to speak on the game publicly.

Thanks for the info OP.