613 réponses à ce sujet

[termokanden]

Well, I agree that you should be able end it on a high note. Since it is a roleplaying game with multiple endings, there should be both bad and good endings. If you messed everything up by making ridiculous choices (an option you should have in an RPG), your ending might be one of the bad ones.

Speaking of DA:O, the game did allow you to sacrifice yourself, but you had other options. That's a good way to do it. It wasn't all rainbows and puppies, but on the other hand the ME3 ending just feels unrewarding. I have read comments about the whole series being so dark that the ending is fitting. No it isn't, the series isn't all THAT dark.

Feels to me like one of those stupid horror movies where the main character fights for his or her life throughout the whole movie and ends up escaping, only to be killed anyway in some cheesy last scare that horror movies apparently must always have.

[majormajormmajor]

Someone should send this to catamite Kuchera, Prostitute Plunkett and Minger Moriarty, those infallible washed-up writer hacks called game "journalists", so they can choke on it, the swine.

[Nighthunteer]

FbangIncentinveX wrote...

He's right.

And not to keep bringing this up, but this is also why you should be able to save Thane and Legion.

Thane we knew was dying since the start, that was not a shock and his ending was perfect!
Legion died a hero to his people in mine, and if he did not - he died free, finally calling himself "me or I" - could not ask for a better send off.

[luzburg]

i like that guy

[AlexXIV]

Why does Bioware lose all the good people ...

[pablosplinter]

FbangIncentinveX wrote...

He's right.

And not to keep bringing this up, but this is also why you should be able to save Thane and Legion.

I disagree, nothing wrong with some things being outside of Shepards control. And they were great scenes

[dannii2]

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

Said it all for me, number 2 especially

x

[AlexXIV]

pablosplinter wrote...

FbangIncentinveX wrote...

He's right.

And not to keep bringing this up, but this is also why you should be able to save Thane and Legion.

I disagree, nothing wrong with some things being outside of Shepards control. And they were great scenes

Well it is ok. Just as losing Kaiden or Ashley. But RPGs are about active protagonists. Unlike movies or book where the spectator can only watch things happen. If they make interactive movies they can as well skip the interactive part, because then I could at least watch it stressless.

[Korhiann]

Bob3terd wrote...

where does he work now? i wanna buy their games.

He isn't working as a developer anymore, as far as I know. You can however buy his book:D

He is still missed.

[Mandemon]

Korhiann wrote...

Bob3terd wrote...

where does he work now? i wanna buy their games.

He isn't working as a developer anymore, as far as I know. You can however buy his book:D

He is still missed.

He sells books? Tell me what, I buy them all!

As long as they lack space magic:wizard:

[Edje Edgar]

Wowlock wrote...

That's why Dragon Age Origins recieved such great praises and ME3 is getting hammered down.

Here is your proof here.... A writer who knows what he is doing.

Origins ended on a somehow cliche note but no one complained about it because it actually satisfied us and our choices. Did it needed to be ''like a movie'' for it ? Nope, just gave players what they wanted. In Mass Effect 3, that is completely opposite.....

Im not so sure it was even a cliche. Only being able to survive by making creepy ancient godchild or sacrificing a friend, I dunno. It had me pause for a moment.

Im pretty sure that evil ancient godchild is what came back to haunt us at the end of ME3. Consequences people, consequences!

[AlexXIV]

Edje Edgar wrote...

Wowlock wrote...

That's why Dragon Age Origins recieved such great praises and ME3 is getting hammered down.

Here is your proof here.... A writer who knows what he is doing.

Origins ended on a somehow cliche note but no one complained about it because it actually satisfied us and our choices. Did it needed to be ''like a movie'' for it ? Nope, just gave players what they wanted. In Mass Effect 3, that is completely opposite.....

Im not so sure it was even a cliche. Only being able to survive by making creepy ancient godchild or sacrificing a friend, I dunno. It had me pause for a moment.

Im pretty sure that evil ancient godchild is what came back to haunt us at the end of ME3. Consequences people, consequences!

Well the ending didn't throw back the DA universe into stone age, or did it?

Most people are not against sad endings or demand happy endings at all costs. I'd find a happy ending that breaks lore and makes no sense just as unsatisfying as a sad ending doing it.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 17 mars 2012 - 01:00 .

[Necroscope]

Legend78731 wrote...

(...)

One thing he did say, I thought I would share (if it's already been posted, I apologize), as it's a sentiment I happen to agree with:

"I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point.

It is a game. Not a movie.

And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.

Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.

Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in general I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.

On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.

It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note."

EDIT: Fixed the formatting of the quote, and for those looking for the original comment, it's in the following link. Scroll down a few comments to find it.

http://blog.brentkno.../#disqus_thread

Former Bioware dev saying the exact same thing as entitled fans? I don't think there is even a need for a comment.

Modifié par Necroscope, 17 mars 2012 - 01:09 .

[Korhiann]

Mandemon wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

Bob3terd wrote...

where does he work now? i wanna buy their games.

He isn't working as a developer anymore, as far as I know. You can however buy his book:D

He is still missed.

He sells books? Tell me what, I buy them all!

As long as they lack space magic:wizard:

Heh sadly I can't comment on any lack of space magic:wizard: but...
http://www.amazon.co...es/e/B0035WW7OW

[astreqwerty]

Legend78731 wrote...

Brent Knowles, who was the lead designer on Dragon Age: Origins, and one of the old guard Bioware developers (Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights), and, when he quit Bioware, made the interesting observation that "Bioware is no longer the company I remember". He's talked a little bit about the ME3 situation on his blog, but they're mainly comments to other posts. Check it out at: www.brentknowles.com

One thing he did say, I thought I would share (if it's already been posted, I apologize), as it's a sentiment I happen to agree with:

"I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point.

It is a game. Not a movie.

And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.

Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.

Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in general I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.

On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.

It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note."

EDIT: Fixed the formatting of the quote, and for those looking for the original comment, it's in the following link. Scroll down a few comments to find it.

http://blog.brentkno.../#disqus_thread

i wholeheartly disagree...thats actually a very immature approach if you ask me..i dont support the me3 endings at all but i like my finales unique,clever and smart not the usual ****

[t_i_e_]

Who of the "Old Guard" of Bioware has moved onto other game producing companies?

I need to replace one from list of top three favourites.

[RVallant]

Agreeing with astreqwerty, a game doesn't have to end on a positive note to be extremely well done. Sometimes, the world ends in a crapsack world where everything is for nought or little changes or you barely do anything at the end.

There's plenty of good games that end on a sour note.

[Wattoes]

RVallant wrote...


Agreeing with astreqwerty, a game doesn't have to end on a positive note to be extremely well done. Sometimes, the world ends in a crapsack world where everything is for nought or little changes or you barely do anything at the end.

There's plenty of good games that end on a sour note.

It doesn't have to be fireworks and happyness, but the player needs satisfaction.  He needs to really feel like a hero.

Thats ending on a "positive" note, despite not necessarily being bubblegum happy, if that makes sense.

[MrAtomica]

This human gets it. I absolutely agree with everything he said.

[RobinEJ]

Lap, lap, lap!!!

Modifié par RobinEJ, 17 mars 2012 - 01:45 .

[RVallant]

Wattoes wrote...

RVallant wrote...


Agreeing with astreqwerty, a game doesn't have to end on a positive note to be extremely well done. Sometimes, the world ends in a crapsack world where everything is for nought or little changes or you barely do anything at the end.

There's plenty of good games that end on a sour note.

It doesn't have to be fireworks and happyness, but the player needs satisfaction.  He needs to really feel like a hero.

Thats ending on a "positive" note, despite not necessarily being bubblegum happy, if that makes sense.

Yes I get that, but then again maybe I don't. I was satisfied by the ending so, I suppose I wouldn't identify with his claims in contrast to everyone who didn't like it or wasn't satisfied. -shrug-

[Bullseye_Sally]

I agree whole heartedly with everything he said!

[Stakis]

Legend78731 wrote...


1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

and thats it, sadly bioware went " artistic ".

[RedWulfi]

Agreed. In DAO we had a choice at the end. Your PC dies, Alistair dies, Loghain dies or you use the dark ritual. The last one being something a lot of people loved.

In awakening we got to choose from saving vigil's keep or the city. If we managed to do all of the quests properly we couls save both.

Modifié par AndersIsLush, 17 mars 2012 - 01:57 .

[henkez3]

He is absolutely correct, shame he doesn't work for BioWare anymore.