613 réponses à ce sujet

[ArkenRennatta]

Dragon Age Origins is my all time favourite Bioware game, and was my all time favourite game in general up until playing The Withcer 2, and now I realize who was responsible for making that game so great, and why the company has fallen so far since the heights of that game. I regret not looking into the changes of management, staff, and writing earlier, it would have saved a lot've heartache. I see now why the company isn't what it used to be, because it literally isn't. The people just aren't there anymore, aren't as invested in their craft as they are invested in the all mighty dollar. I need to start following this guy more.

[GZ44]

Well, I guess he would be the reason DA:O is my favorite game of the past 15 years or so. I actually thought we'd get a similar epilogue for ME3...

[M12311]

Silveralen wrote...

Wow, so this is one of the people bioware lost. No wonder they have been falling behind lately.

Yes, no suprise.

[beserker7]

Sywen wrote...

I agree with this. It's why I can't play again. I didn't walk away feeling like a hero. Real life sucks enough. I don't need a game to remind me of that.

This.

Here's the thing. This guy is right on with the majority of normal sane people who game and/or are in the industry. Its time for Bioware to wake up aknowledge the writer and producer got it wrong and correct this before its too late and they lose all loyal customers.

Before, ME3 ending I would always pre-order Bioware for years. I have a boycott list for developers and all of Activision games over a similar not listening to the majority of fans concerns over games and I'm prepared to do it again.

Bioware can pick up the phone and call Vicarious Visions and Activision and see what happens to sales figures of sequels when you ignore the most basic of fan concerns and "do only what you thinks best" against all fan feedback,common sense and logic.  

Modifié par beserker7, 18 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[beserker7]

beserker7 wrote...

Sywen wrote...

I agree with this. It's why I can't play again. I didn't walk away feeling like a hero. Real life sucks enough. I don't need a game to remind me of that.

This.

Here's the thing. This guy is right on with the majority of normal sane people who game and/or are in the industry. Its time for Bioware to wake up aknowledge the writer and producer got it wrong and correct this before its too late and they lose all loyal customers.

Before, ME3 ending I would always pre-order Bioware for years. I have a boycott list for developers and all of Activision games over a similar not listening to the majority of fans concerns over games and I'm prepared to do it again.

Bioware can pick up the phone and call Vicarious Visions and Activision and see what happens to sales figures of sequels when you ignore the most basic of fan concerns and "do only what you thinks best" against all fan feedback,common sense and logic.  

sorry forgot, a thank you for the find to the original poster of this topic. HOLD THE LINE!

[A Paperback Hero]

I wish this was the man who called the shots. We obviously would of gotten what we wanted. A video game that is a video game right up to the end. Not a video game for 99% and then a as Casey Hudson phrases it, a not "video gamey" ending right at the end.

If you wanted to write bitter sweet piece of 'art' why didn't you get into the movie business not the video game industry, Casey, You don't get grammy's for punking the hero a player internalized for over 100 hours or more in the video game industry.

Modifié par A Paperback Hero, 18 mars 2012 - 03:17 .

[spirosz]

Great find, thanks for posting!

Bah, still want my Shepard and Jack happy ending

[beccathelion]

i love him :[

[Subject M]

spiros9110 wrote...

Great find, thanks for posting!

Bah, still want my Shepard and Jack happy ending

Of course. Love is our strongest bastion against death and dispair. Even in fiction, its strong and uplifting.

BTW, if you have time and inspiraton I would appriciate feedback:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9961224/1

Modifié par Subject M, 18 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[Unit-Alpha]

Wish he was back. He was a nice guy; I think I remember him from the old forums.

[MaYtriX]

A shame he doesnt work for bioware anymore.

[shadowsmartyr]

This was awesome to read thanks for posting

[seventh_sorrow]

It's always nice to see people proud of their work and products, Dragon Age is why I became a fan in the first place.

Companies need to take that kind of initiative again

[Iztiak]

Dragon Age Origins was pretty awesome.

[ElMuchu]

Legend78731 wrote...

Brent Knowles, who was the lead designer on Dragon Age: Origins, and one of the old guard Bioware developers (Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights), and, when he quit Bioware, made the interesting observation that "Bioware is no longer the company I remember". He's talked a little bit about the ME3 situation on his blog, but they're mainly comments to other posts. Check it out at: www.brentknowles.com

One thing he did say, I thought I would share (if it's already been posted, I apologize), as it's a sentiment I happen to agree with:

"I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point.

It is a game. Not a movie.

And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.



Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.

Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in general I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.

On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.

It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note."

EDIT: Fixed the formatting of the quote, and for those looking for the original comment, it's in the following link. Scroll down a few comments to find it.

http://blog.brentkno.../#disqus_thread

I just read this thread, it makes sense. If only Bioware could have done this.

Modifié par ElMuchu, 18 mars 2012 - 04:47 .

[captainbob8383]

I love this guy.
His post shows perfectly why ME3 ending sucks beyond words and why the fanbase is right to be so upset.
It is so simple, so obvious. Bioware not understanding it is really alarming.

[Bekkael]

tobito113 wrote...

I though people didnt want a happy ending? Now you show your real faces

DA:O never offered "happy endings"; bittersweet, at best. It isn't about happy, it's about feeling that your choices were taken into account and made a difference, and whether your character lived or died, s/he was a hero that saved others.

If ME3 had taken a page from DA:O in that department, I daresay there would be no complaints regarding the ending.

[Malevolous312]

Bekkael wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

I though people didnt want a happy ending? Now you show your real faces

DA:O never offered "happy endings"; bittersweet, at best. It isn't about happy, it's about feeling that your choices were taken into account and made a difference, and whether your character lived or died, s/he was a hero that saved others.

If ME3 had taken a page from DA:O in that department, I daresay there would be no complaints regarding the ending.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Personally though, I don't care if the hending is happy or heroic. The adventure that brought me there was heroic, and it was filled with both triumphs and tragedies. If the devs wanted the ending to be tragic, so be it.

I care about two things: the first is that, as so many have mentioned, the ending reflects the hundreds and hundreds of hours I spent creating my story; the second, and by far the most important, is that the ending is logically valid. The ME3 ending was bad because it not only made no sense, but directly contradicted the richly developed context of the Mass Effect universe.

A good ending ultimately has to make sense.

[Bekkael]

Malevolous312 wrote...

*snip*

A good ending ultimately has to make sense.

Agreed. Moreover, it has to make sense AND not contrdict the lore as previously established. There is no excuse for the ME3 ending.

[Elvwood]

This guy is spot on.
If he were still there then we would still be able to call the game Mass Effect 3
Instead of Mess Effect 3

[gao gao]

he's right.

furhermore, the ending in da:o was stellar. too bad bioware forgot how to make games in that manner.

dragon age 2.

we should have seen it coming.

[ed87]

Donald Trump will be hiring this man very soon...

[Valo_Soren]

Since he has nothing to do with Mass effect, his opinion doesn't really matter that much, and since Dragon Age Origins was a depressing harsh game that really loaded on the funk for your grey warden and even can have your warden die at the end with a similar self sacrifice his comments are also hypocritical anyway.

[Bekkael]

Valo_Soren wrote...

Since he has nothing to do with Mass effect, his opinion doesn't really matter that much, and since Dragon Age Origins was a depressing harsh game that really loaded on the funk for your grey warden and even can have your warden die at the end with a similar self sacrifice his comments are also hypocritical anyway.

I don't find them hypocritcal. He said to end the game feeling heroic; not happily-ever-after. In DA:O you feel heroic, even if you have your Warden sacrifice their life to stop the Blight. Your choices mattered, and gave you a number of different endings based on them, while keeping many decisions morally grey. If you wanted everyone to live, you had to make a choice that really made you think about future repercussions.

That isn't the case with skittles-style ME3 endings.

Just how I see it.

[Zyrious]

Anyone else feel like doing another playthrough of DA:O all of a sudden? A Pitty i'm still in a sci-fi mood, but damn DA:O is awesome. Might just have to dust it off regardless.