613 réponses à ce sujet

[Zix13]

What he said is the fundamental problem with the ending. It doesn't belong in the game or genre. Add that to the terrible execution, disregard for theme and character, and the gaping plotholes, and you've summarized everything that is wrong with the me3 ending.

[LostHero2k9]

That guy was one reason why DA:O was great and DA2 sucked hard...

[Emberwake]

There's a really great contrast between the ending of DAO and ME3 there. DAO came down to a choice: be noble and sacrifice yourself, be ruthless and sacrifice Logain, be selfish and sacrifice Alistair, or be awesome and defy fate with a deal with the devil! No matter how you play it, the game concludes with a direct confrontation between the Hero and the Archdemon. Afterwards, live or die, we see the consequences of our choices.

Its everything that was missing in ME3.

Hold the line.

[Count Viceroy]

Bioware is indeed no longer the glorious company it used to be. Of that I have no doubt.

I normally don't throw my head into the EA hate debate, but looking at it objectively, the production quality has gone down significantly since EA took control. Coincidence? I think not.

[M12311]

Bekkael wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

I though people didnt want a happy ending? Now you show your real faces

DA:O never offered "happy endings"; bittersweet, at best. It isn't about happy, it's about feeling that your choices were taken into account and made a difference, and whether your character lived or died, s/he was a hero that saved others.

If ME3 had taken a page from DA:O in that department, I daresay there would be no complaints regarding the ending.

Yes, one of the most commonly used strawman arguments against the Hold the Line movement is that we want a happy ending.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

If I owned a game developing company, i would hire this guy.

[Federally]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Bioware is indeed no longer the glorious company it used to be. Of that I have no doubt.

I normally don't throw my head into the EA hate debate, but looking at it objectively, the production quality has gone down significantly since EA took control. Coincidence? I think not.

Yeah Bioware kind of sucks now, with their last few projects I haven't finished the games and been left satisfied. I enjoyed playing both DA2 and ME3 a lot, but at the end I just didn't feel satisfied. Sorry Bioware you won't get anymore of my money, I just hope this guy in the OP makes an RPG so I don't run out of games to play.

[BECC4]

Sorry if it's been answered already but only just found the thread. Does anyone know who Brent works for now? I would be very interested in those games as others have said I'm less and less inclined just to buy BW games anymore without thoroughly checking them out 1st. Sad state of affairs really.

[Faded-Myth]

Brent Knowles, I salute you.

[Bekkael]

BECC4 wrote...

Sorry if it's been answered already but only just found the thread. Does anyone know who Brent works for now? I would be very interested in those games as others have said I'm less and less inclined just to buy BW games anymore without thoroughly checking them out 1st. Sad state of affairs really.

He has left game development entirely. You can check out his blog here: http://blog.brentknowles.com/

[LinkSnake1016]

They should have hired him to write this story ending. You know how much better it would have been?

[beserker7]

Bekkael wrote...

BECC4 wrote...

Sorry if it's been answered already but only just found the thread. Does anyone know who Brent works for now? I would be very interested in those games as others have said I'm less and less inclined just to buy BW games anymore without thoroughly checking them out 1st. Sad state of affairs really.

He has left game development entirely. You can check out his blog here: http://blog.brentknowles.com/

Thanks for the link. This guy, like the majority of people out there with the exception of Walters & Hudson, makes sense when considering the ME3 ending subject. Sorry to hear he's out of gaming. No wonder Dragon Age 1 will likely be the last  truly great game to come from Bioware.  

[LoboFH]

Sorry, but I will not trash BioWare in the ground for a mistake:

I love Mass Effect 1
I love Mass Effect 2
I love Mass Effect 3, except the final 15 minutes
Dragon Age is not my cup of tea, not fond of Medieval fables, but is an amazing trip, perhaps someday I will get into its world
SW:TOR and MMO's style combat are not my cup of tea, but it's wonderfully done, with amazing attention to detail.

Yes, BioWare screwed it up with this ending...big time...They had not the will and personality to draw the line and shout NO to shareholders and suits...but I will not lynch them, they still made three games (- 15 minutes) I love with passion. Let's not loose the perspective.

...and Marauder Shields is a new pop icon.

Modifié par LoboFH, 19 mars 2012 - 01:46 .

[Gexora]

I remember when I role-played killing Harrowmant and giving Orzammar to Bhelen because that made more sense ingame... and I thought "so that was stereotypical good/bad choice and I am going to be screwed for this".
Then i got to epilogue and realised Harrowmant would have doomed Orzammar. And I was like **** YEAH.
Good old times... when Bioware used to *understand*

[M12311]

Bekkael wrote...

He has left game development entirely. You can check out his blog here: http://blog.brentknowles.com/

didn't realize that I though he just went to another publisher.

[melisma]

Gexora wrote...

I remember when I role-played killing Harrowmant and giving Orzammar to Bhelen because that made more sense ingame... and I thought "so that was stereotypical good/bad choice and I am going to be screwed for this".
Then i got to epilogue and realised Harrowmant would have doomed Orzammar. And I was like **** YEAH.
Good old times... when Bioware used to *understand*

I think the Bhelen/Harrowmont decision is one of the most interesting in a RPG for a long time. Do you take the fundamentally corrupt leader with a strong and effective leadership style, or do you take the good man who was chosen by the old king, but who is fundamentally a failure at leadership? 

Dragon Age: Origins had a very personal-choice-driven ending, and it's a shame that Mass Effect didn't take a leaf out of that book. There were a range of options and the options you got were affected by the choices you made earlier in the game (i.e. what happened at the landsmeet, the dark ritual). They also gave us closure in the form of an epilogue and a debriefing/funeral scene.

[Bekkael]

M12311 wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

He has left game development entirely. You can check out his blog here: http://blog.brentknowles.com/

didn't realize that I though he just went to another publisher.

Yes. When someone mentioned wanting to rebuy the games he made in the past so he could get double royalties, he had this to say about it:

Thanks for the comment. Sadly us lowly designers don't get royalties on games
(Which is actually one of the reasons I'm not working for a developer anymore... far too much effort gets spent making games without the same long-term reward somebody would get in the book or movies industry) -Brent

It sound like it's a great deal of work for very little reward. Considering the changeful nature of public reaction, and how difficult it can be to please all gamers, I wonder at anyone wanting to be in game development.

Modifié par Bekkael, 19 mars 2012 - 07:52 .

[Woodstock-TC]

+1 missing him since da2

[omegasama]

Yeah, the reason why DA:O was so loved was because of all the endings it had. Happy, sad, all of them leaving you feeling fulfilled and longing for a replay. You found out what happened with the country, with the elves, humans and dwarves, with your companions. It left you feeling completely satisfied.

ME3 did not.

It left you with questions and confusion. It left you frustrated and angry. It left me crying in frustration and disbelief that that was really it.

The choices offered was something my Shepard would never EVER agree to, he also wouldn't say half the things the contrived plot forced him to say. The ending wasn't my ending, the ending was a forced opinion of some Star-child (ei the developers) on how they wanted my story to end.

I pretend the game ends after you talk to Anderson in the camp before you leave for the final battle. Everything after that is just contrived **** anyway.

[Troy Sayers]

He hit the point. I would like to have a happy ending ,a sad ending a between ending.... i would have liked to have a choice .

[Knuffels505]

I think most of us just need some closure and some filling on the plot holes. The ending itself was dissapointing, but I would at least accepted it if everything was explained, had logic and left with closure overall. DA:O gave us that closure we needed, yet remained both happy and bittersweet. Mr. Knowles knows what he's talking about, no doubt there. Such a shame my favorite franchise left me with an disturbingly empty feeling from the last minutes...

Modifié par Knuffels505, 19 mars 2012 - 10:21 .

[Wingzero87]

Brent is 100% correct.

To give everyone a bitter sweet ending as it has been described to everyone is to marginalise your fan base. Some people like those endings, others like myself like it when the underdog comes out on top.

Thats why I have and will continue to play DA:O, ME1 and ME2 because in the end despite the odds you can have that ending and in DA:O you get the closure of what happens to Oghren, and Leliana and Sten.

It baffles me how bioware can go from Dragon Age and Mass Effect games loved and praised by their customers to "Lets make it like a movie".

I can honestly say that I will not count out further purchases from Bioware, I just hope that they learn from this massive outcry and give the fans what they want.

[link33333]

I wonder what Drew Karpyshyn thinks about the tragic conclusion of the series that he fathered. Turning such a masterpiece of science fiction into a plot hole ridden debacle after he retired.

Modifié par link33333, 19 mars 2012 - 11:04 .

[Bfler]

omegasama wrote...


I pretend the game ends after you talk to Anderson in the camp before you leave for the final battle. Everything after that is just contrived **** anyway.

Hm, I would say after you launch the rockets and before the run towards the beam.

[Lisa_H]

This is so correct. I hope Bioware realize this too. They are making a game not a movie