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DA:O Lead Designer Comments on ME3 Ending Debacle


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#51
Kilshrek

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Legend78731 wrote...

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.
When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.
On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.


The take home message.

Modifié par Kilshrek, 16 mars 2012 - 11:57 .


#52
B.Shep

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I like this human, he understand!

#53
Bioras

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Wow, well said. He hit it perfectly.

#54
RebelByDesign

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I like this human, he understands.

EDIT: Heh, space ninja'd

Modifié par RebelByDesign, 16 mars 2012 - 11:57 .


#55
MissMaster_2

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This

#56
TJX2045

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Someone rehire him and the original Bioware people so somehow Bioware can become independent of EA again and not be rushed to make such an epic game to make a quick buck.

Modifié par TJX2045, 16 mars 2012 - 11:57 .


#57
Lambchopz

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tobito113 wrote...

I though people didnt want a happy ending? Now you show your real faces


I thought you could read? I guess not, because that's not the point.

#58
ZodiEmish

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War Assets Acquired : Ex Bioware

#59
VerdantSF

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ZodiEmish wrote...

War Assets Acquired : Ex Bioware

Hahahah!

#60
Fame-KIllz

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Why couldn't more people like this be on the dev team for ME3? :(

Modifié par Fame-KIllz, 16 mars 2012 - 11:57 .


#61
Harbinger of Hope

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Ahh ok, found it. Hey, OP, mind fixing the format? It's very, messy.

#62
phrizek

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Spot on.

#63
Cosmar

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Gosh I miss him working at BW! The games he was involved in were my favorite BW games (aside ME 1 and 2).

His best point is the difference between a game and a movie. We can stomach depressing/crappy movies because a) they're short and B) we usually know what we're getting into.

With games like ME trilogy, we spent hours and hours and hours in this, and have no idea what's really in the game until we buy it.

#64
Bigdoser

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tobito113 wrote...

I though people didnt want a happy ending? Now you show your real faces


Er even in DAO you can end it on a rather sad note because you can throw your warden at the arch demon. 

Modifié par Bigdoser, 17 mars 2012 - 12:00 .


#65
B.Shep

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I like this human, he understand!

#66
BarrelDrago

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This guy, is in mass effect 3 and we know his as Marauder shields.

#67
TJX2045

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ZodiEmish wrote...

War Assets Acquired : Ex Bioware

TROLOLOL :alien:

Effective Customer Strength now at 50,000.


BarrelDrago wrote...

This guy, is in mass effect 3 and we know him as Marauder shields.


Modifié par TJX2045, 16 mars 2012 - 11:58 .


#68
iRAWRasaurusREX

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Xandax wrote...

DA:O - now that game had an ending that blew me away. The Sacrifice ending and Alistar's ending speech.

That's an end I had expected for Mass Effect 3


agreed. 

#69
k177sh0t

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Fame-KIllz wrote...

Why couldn't more people like this be on the dev team for ME3? :(


Current BioWare isn't the BioWare he knew

#70
Synonamess

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Well said...nice post.

#71
Joykilledme

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Legend78731 wrote...

Brent Knowles, who was the lead designer on Dragon Age: Origins, and one of the old guard Bioware developers (Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights), and, when he quit Bioware, made the interesting observation that "Bioware is no longer the company I remember". He's talked a little bit about the ME3 situation on his blog, but they're mainly comments to other posts. Check it out at: www.brentknowles.com

One thing he did say, I thought I would share (if it's already been posted, I apologize), as it's a sentiment I happen to agree with:

"I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point.
It is a game. Not a movie.
And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.
Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.
Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in general I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:
1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.
2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.
When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.
On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.
It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note."


THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!

Bioware!!! TAKE SOME DAMN! NOTES!!!!!!

#72
sorentoft

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tobito113 wrote...

I though people didnt want a happy ending? Now you show your real faces

Some people obviously want a happy ending. Most want an ending that makes sense. The two does not exclude each other. ^_^

#73
Kloborgg711

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tobito113 wrote...

I though people didnt want a happy ending? Now you show your real faces


"We don't all want only happy endings"
=/=
"None of us want any happy endings"

#74
Jeno_340

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This is exactly why the ending is such a big deal. The rest of the game was as good as it gets but to have an ending like this ruins the entire franchise.

#75
wulf3n

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Kloborgg711 wrote...

I'd say "positive note" is up for specification. Sacrifice is an important part of an emotional journey. I do agree that at the very least we should get the option to have a heroic victory. I, myself, felt no catharsis or sense of victory at the end of the game.


Self sacrifice can be positive, you just need to know:
1) the sacrifice was the only option.
2) the positive effect the sacrifice had.