232 réponses à ce sujet

[JamesYHT]

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

What if the kid was real, and the Reapers just prey on Shepard's feelings of futility about not saving him?

yeap, it can be....the only thing i like the theory is there will be an ending dlc to continue the story.....

[KorPhaeron]

Rawgrim wrote...

KorPhaeron wrote...

lol I love how every1 skips my post, since , what I said is so true, the indoc theory is logical fallacy, since its made up fan-fiction.

Its like someone saying , can you disprove the existence of God

The codex is fan-fiction is it? Nobody has made up anything. Just pointing out indications of indoctrination.
I am sure you agree that indoctrination, a well known weapon of the reapers, makes more sense than space magic?

No the Codex is just fiction, the whole game is fiction, we try to explain the energy wave at the and as space magic cause no other explanation is given even in the game. 

If the devs had said the wave was made up of specially created nano-machines that in one ending bind themselves to organic dna, in another take control of the reapers on the atomic level and let you control them and another just shut down the reapers.

No1 would have a problem with that, but since the devs said nothing, we have space magic.

The thing is the whole game is space magic to begin with, its just explained space magic with the codex.

[CavScout]

Rawgrim wrote...

CavScout wrote...

You can not convince people that the image of Jesus in the toast is just a random pattern... same with this theory folks are clinging to.

Its alot easier to belive in space magic, isn`t it?

No harder than the space magic botics used the entire game series.

[Darth_Trethon]

redplague wrote...

I noticed the picture of the boy from Earth on the memorial wall in the Citadel.  It's right in the centre at the bottom.  Other people in the game must have noticed this picture as they would have just placed another picture there in front of it.  So this debunks the theory that no one else but Sheperd notices the boy.

You're not manking a bit of sense.....if shepard's mind can be influenced to see people who aren't there(ie the kid) along with all respective actions....moving, running playing, etc......how bloody hard could it be to influence his mind to see a picture? I mean seriously.

Theory stands, the end.

[DyneEnigma]

Personally I think the Indoctrination Theory is stupid. Hallucination maybe, but definitely not indoctrination.

[Rawgrim]

aliengmr1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

aliengmr1 wrote...

Wait, Im confused does Indoc theory still ascertain that bioware planned it all?

It doesn`t. But it makes more sense than them doing a U-turn at the end of the game, and introducing space magic.

ohhh ok whew, thought you all were losing it there. and I agree it does.

Its just a theory, that oddly enough, makes alot of sense. Worst case scenario, we are dead wrong, and Bioware did indeed introduce space magic at the end of the series.

[Rawgrim]

CavScout wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

CavScout wrote...

You can not convince people that the image of Jesus in the toast is just a random pattern... same with this theory folks are clinging to.

Its alot easier to belive in space magic, isn`t it?

No harder than the space magic botics used the entire game series.

Biotics and indoctrination are both explained in the Codex, though. Space magic isn`t.

[jkflipflopDAO]

It just goes to show how bad they F'd this story up that we're actually grasping at such silly notions as the Indoc Theory as a "better alternative" to the real thing.

[CavScout]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

redplague wrote...

I noticed the picture of the boy from Earth on the memorial wall in the Citadel.  It's right in the centre at the bottom.  Other people in the game must have noticed this picture as they would have just placed another picture there in front of it.  So this debunks the theory that no one else but Sheperd notices the boy.

You're not manking a bit of sense.....if shepard's mind can be influenced to see people who aren't there(ie the kid) along with all respective actions....moving, running playing, etc......how bloody hard could it be to influence his mind to see a picture? I mean seriously.

Theory stands, the end.

So essentially nothing in-game can disprove the theory because you'll just say it's party of the process... convenient.

[Haiyato]

I go with the indoc. theory. Just because to many things go against what Bioware has already stated in the codex ingame.

The Normandy is either going FTL or going through the Mass Relay at the end, I would say its going FTL. Anyhow, the beam obvisously disabled the ship, wouldn't that cause the ship's mass effect field to drop suddenly and slam the ship back into sub light velocity? If so wouldn't the end result would be catastrophic be creating cereknov radiation from the excess energy shed? If that is the case, there is some contradiction to the ingame codex unless I am totally missing somthing..

[ArkkAngel007]

The boy was real. I think the IT people just got way to carried away with the child on Earth due to it's connections to future supporting elements of the theory. I'm an IT supporter, but that bit is really stretching to where it really shouldn't be a supporting element. Yes, I know the reasoning behind it, and it just isn't as solid as what should be getting the main attention (Shepard living, huskification, patterns).

Makes more sense that, since the death did affect Shepard, that it's a malleable piece of his conscience that can be taken advantage of.

Oh, and can we please stop making dozens of separate threads over this whole topic?

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 17 mars 2012 - 01:40 .

[CavScout]

Rawgrim wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

CavScout wrote...

You can not convince people that the image of Jesus in the toast is just a random pattern... same with this theory folks are clinging to.

Its alot easier to belive in space magic, isn`t it?

No harder than the space magic botics used the entire game series.

Biotics and indoctrination are both explained in the Codex, though. Space magic isn`t.

Lack of Codex = space magic now?

[Paragon Auducan]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Paragon Auducan wrote...

Why would the Prothean VI see someone who isn't Indoctrinated fully as being Indoctrinated? Also that was what killed the Protheans, Indoctrinated leaders.

Kai Leng is still in control of himself to an extent. He isn't "fully" indoctrinated. But the VI sure sniffs him out from a mile away, doesn't it?

Kai Leng was fully Indoctrinated......yes of course he was. He's full of Reaper tech.

[jkflipflopDAO]

Paragon Auducan wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Paragon Auducan wrote...

Why would the Prothean VI see someone who isn't Indoctrinated fully as being Indoctrinated? Also that was what killed the Protheans, Indoctrinated leaders.

Kai Leng is still in control of himself to an extent. He isn't "fully" indoctrinated. But the VI sure sniffs him out from a mile away, doesn't it?

Kai Leng was fully Indoctrinated......yes of course he was. He's full of Reaper tech.

So is Shepard. 

[IanPolaris]

P_sutherland wrote...

redplague wrote...

If they are indoctrinating Sheperd in ME3. Why didn't they do it earlier when he was causing trouble in ME1? Especially on Virmiye (sp?) where Sovreign was on the same planet as him.

Soverign had saren and the geth.

Shepard is extremely strong willed and Shepard hadn't been exposed nearly enough to even begin to be indoctrinated.  If one time simple exposure to Sovereign's signal was enough then every colonist that survived Eden Prime should have been indoctrinated but we know (in ME3) that this emphatically was not the case.

As for the Prothean VI, the Prothean ability to detect indoctrination is FLAWED.  If it wasn't, then the Protheans would have beaten the Reapers 50,000 years ago or at the very least Javik and his million man army would have survived until the next cycle.  Those failed because of indoctrinated sleeper agents that WERE NOT detected.  That tells me you have to be a certain amount along towards being indoctrinated for it to show and Shepard wasn't anywhere near there (at least on Thessia).

As for the Reapers, at the end Sovereign would have loved to indoc Shepard by the time Sovereign realizes what an asset Shepard is (and Saren says as much), but by then it's too late (at least too late to do Indoc slowly enough to keep Shepard useful).  It's Harbinger that goes all out to try to confiscate and turn Shepard in ME2.  No reason to think he's changed his mind in ME3....and during Arrival, Shepard got some major exposure to reaper tech,.

-Polaris

[Rawgrim]

What the picture does, is that it manages to question if the child was in Shep`s mind from the beginning, or not. Not the rest of the theory.

[Rawgrim]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Paragon Auducan wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Paragon Auducan wrote...

Why would the Prothean VI see someone who isn't Indoctrinated fully as being Indoctrinated? Also that was what killed the Protheans, Indoctrinated leaders.

Kai Leng is still in control of himself to an extent. He isn't "fully" indoctrinated. But the VI sure sniffs him out from a mile away, doesn't it?

Kai Leng was fully Indoctrinated......yes of course he was. He's full of Reaper tech.

So is Shepard. 

Wich means Shep could become indoctrinated?

[IanPolaris]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Paragon Auducan wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Paragon Auducan wrote...

Why would the Prothean VI see someone who isn't Indoctrinated fully as being Indoctrinated? Also that was what killed the Protheans, Indoctrinated leaders.

Kai Leng is still in control of himself to an extent. He isn't "fully" indoctrinated. But the VI sure sniffs him out from a mile away, doesn't it?

Kai Leng was fully Indoctrinated......yes of course he was. He's full of Reaper tech.

So is Shepard. 

We don't know how much Reaper Tech was used to revive Shepard.  TIM made it a priority to keep Shepard as he was to fight the Reapers.  That was not so for Kai Leng which implies at least to me that TIM used the least amount of reaper tech needed to ressurect Shepard...and Shepard's will is stronger than Kai Leng's.

-Polaris

[jkflipflopDAO]

So to get this straight, Shepard has been indoctrinated since Object Rho. But he's only just a teeny-weenie bit indoctrinated so that the Prothean VI doesn't flag when it sees him, but he's indoctrinated enough to not know the difference between reality and fantasy. But somehow that's not really indoctrinated. Except he really is indoctrinated. Except not really.

Yeah, this one is bulletproof alright.

[Tiax Rules All]

redplague wrote...

I noticed the picture of the boy from Earth on the memorial wall in the Citadel.  It's right in the centre at the bottom.  Other people in the game must have noticed this picture as they would have just placed another picture there in front of it.  So this debunks the theory that no one else but Sheperd notices the boy.

thats if you assume the boy was NEVER real. The "boy" was something different after Earth.
and are you saying that the boy in the dreams is real? the boy at the end was the boy?

This says absolutley nothing and not even close to debunking Indoc theory.

In fact if all we need is ONE thing to disprove a theory then it is IMPOSSIBLE to believe the face value ending.

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 17 mars 2012 - 01:45 .

[Darth_Trethon]

CavScout wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

redplague wrote...

I noticed the picture of the boy from Earth on the memorial wall in the Citadel.  It's right in the centre at the bottom.  Other people in the game must have noticed this picture as they would have just placed another picture there in front of it.  So this debunks the theory that no one else but Sheperd notices the boy.

You're not manking a bit of sense.....if shepard's mind can be influenced to see people who aren't there(ie the kid) along with all respective actions....moving, running playing, etc......how bloody hard could it be to influence his mind to see a picture? I mean seriously.

Theory stands, the end.

So essentially nothing in-game can disprove the theory because you'll just say it's party of the process... convenient.

Yes, basically.....if the entire end sequence is a dream and the child is a reaper induced hallucination then pretty much anything can be. At any rate the child justdoesn't fit from the start and the points against him being real are quite signifficant......but the point that a picture would disprove this is silly.....if the reapers can incluence a mind to see a living person with all associate movements and characteristics that isn't actually there why couldn't they make shep's mind see a simple picture that is small and still and does nothing?

[Linus108]

I love how more logical the Indoctrination theory is compared to the ending we actually got.

Even when people do come close to debunking it, it still makes more sense and has less plot holes than the current ending.

Modifié par Linus108, 17 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[Rawgrim]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

So to get this straight, Shepard has been indoctrinated since Object Rho. But he's only just a teeny-weenie bit indoctrinated so that the Prothean VI doesn't flag when it sees him, but he's indoctrinated enough to not know the difference between reality and fantasy. But somehow that's not really indoctrinated. Except he really is indoctrinated. Except not really.

Yeah, this one is bulletproof alright.

It works slowly. Benezzia says this, the rachni queen says this also. If you are fully indoctrinated, wich takes time (says so in the codex), you are pretty much all reaper. Wich the VI can now detect. Helps to read the codex sometimes.

[CavScout]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

redplague wrote...

I noticed the picture of the boy from Earth on the memorial wall in the Citadel.  It's right in the centre at the bottom.  Other people in the game must have noticed this picture as they would have just placed another picture there in front of it.  So this debunks the theory that no one else but Sheperd notices the boy.

You're not manking a bit of sense.....if shepard's mind can be influenced to see people who aren't there(ie the kid) along with all respective actions....moving, running playing, etc......how bloody hard could it be to influence his mind to see a picture? I mean seriously.

Theory stands, the end.

So essentially nothing in-game can disprove the theory because you'll just say it's party of the process... convenient.

Yes, basically.....if the entire end sequence is a dream and the child is a reaper induced hallucination then pretty much anything can be. At any rate the child justdoesn't fit from the start and the points against him being real are quite signifficant......but the point that a picture would disprove this is silly.....if the reapers can incluence a mind to see a living person with all associate movements and characteristics that isn't actually there why couldn't they make shep's mind see a simple picture that is small and still and does nothing?

Nice world to live in.

[IanPolaris]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

So to get this straight, Shepard has been indoctrinated since Object Rho. But he's only just a teeny-weenie bit indoctrinated so that the Prothean VI doesn't flag when it sees him, but he's indoctrinated enough to not know the difference between reality and fantasy. But somehow that's not really indoctrinated. Except he really is indoctrinated. Except not really.

Yeah, this one is bulletproof alright.

Please stop it.  Indoctrination is a slow process (at least if you want to keep the subject useful) and can be resisted for months if not years.  Saren did.  So did the Illusive man.  Given Shepard's canonical willpower, there is no reason to think that any attempt to indoctrinate Shepard wouldn't also take years, and we KNOW that the prothean ability to sense indoctrinated people is extremely fallable.  There is no reason to think that Shepard when on Thessia was far enough along to detect.  Essentially Shepard was not (yet) under reaper control and thus did not flag as indoctrinated.  Kai Leng was (as was the Illusive man) and so did.  Simple as that.

-Polaris