Um...Casey, there is a huge difference between a 'bittersweet ending', and an ending that makes no goddamn sense and has glaring plotholes all around it.
Modifié par Vanguard Of Destruction, 17 mars 2012 - 04:36 .
Casey Hudson discusses the conclusion of Mass Effect 3
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, mars 17 2012 01:23
#576
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:35
Vanguard Of Destruction
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"We had always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending "
Um...Casey, there is a huge difference between a 'bittersweet ending', and an ending that makes no goddamn sense and has glaring plotholes all around it.
Um...Casey, there is a huge difference between a 'bittersweet ending', and an ending that makes no goddamn sense and has glaring plotholes all around it.
Retour en haut
#577
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:36
rissoles
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Regardless of what are considered inconsistencies, faux-pas, and even laziness in not telling the whole story; I believe that you have done an exceptional job and I enjoyed the whole thing, start to finish. I have never been so satisfied with a game, and I have played thousands, so please keep up the great work and I look forward to your next offering.
#578
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:37
foundthisway
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Toyou4you wrote...
**** ALL OF YOU TROLLS **** ALL OF YOU
out of the blue statement i lol'd
#579
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:39
dark_one778
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First off, Let me just say that I have been a Bioware fan since BG1 now up to ME3. Now to get into the meat of the argument. Casey Hudson I would like to first say thanks for even making any response. Better then some companies (I am looking at you Sega and your lack of Armored core 4 updates from back in 2008.)
Now what we as fans are trying to make you understand is that. when the most voted on poll on BSN is about how the ME3 ending. With the results currently reading about 91% the ending was not good at all. 6 % the ending was fine, but closure make it better, and only 3 percent saying the ending was perfect. When almost 60,000 votes cast, and 58,000 of them talk about the ending. That it either needs to be changed or expanded is a pretty good sample size for the "consumer base".
While this maybe a "shared experience between the development team and our fans", and the reviews of the game by 99% of everyone in the "movement" has said it was fantasic except for the ending. So while touting reviews from the NYT and Penny arcade are great. Their is just one small problem with touting them. We as fan are commited in a different way then "game journalists". We spend our own money and time. We are not paid to play these games. We are not paid for the time spent playing them like these "game journalist".
It is this "shared experience" that you talk about that has people up in arms. I know for a fact that Garrus and Tali LI were a much smaller outcry and were addressed in ME 2. The call for more RPG elements in 3 was also not nearly as big as this one for a changed, revised, or expanded upon ending.
This series has been called art by alot of people in the "game media". I would tend to agree our problem is that 95% of the art is great. but the problem is the last 5% is central to the piece. As such that is where the art does meet various promises the artist had put forth when we commished entry into this piece of art. Now what do I mean by that? Well here is the lead artist promise on that last 5% of commissioned artwork.
Hudson: "It's not so much that there is a fixed set of alternative endings, but
all of your choices really determine how things end up in the universe.
So, how you approach the end-game, for every player, you're going to
have a different set of results in terms of who is alive and who is
dead, and which civilisations survived and which ones were wiped
out.There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you
approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it
continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a
classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice
between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different
choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for
everyone who plays it."
Now does that sound like the final piece of that artwork? These were the promises that made us want to preorder ME3. It is those promises that we fall have been broken, not lived up to. Now I will say that I love 95% of the game. However, I do not feel that the ending justifies the $80 price tag that went with it. When that $80 was put down based on promises like the above comment,
Now which camp do I personally fall into in regards to the ending? Personally, if that is the ending we will be stuck with I can live with that.But the ending needs expansion upon. It has to reflect those promises that our choices from earlier matter. Like in the above quote by you no less. And as the ending currently stands we get none of that. So I have tried to keep this civil. and to puntcuate where are issues are.
Now what we as fans are trying to make you understand is that. when the most voted on poll on BSN is about how the ME3 ending. With the results currently reading about 91% the ending was not good at all. 6 % the ending was fine, but closure make it better, and only 3 percent saying the ending was perfect. When almost 60,000 votes cast, and 58,000 of them talk about the ending. That it either needs to be changed or expanded is a pretty good sample size for the "consumer base".
While this maybe a "shared experience between the development team and our fans", and the reviews of the game by 99% of everyone in the "movement" has said it was fantasic except for the ending. So while touting reviews from the NYT and Penny arcade are great. Their is just one small problem with touting them. We as fan are commited in a different way then "game journalists". We spend our own money and time. We are not paid to play these games. We are not paid for the time spent playing them like these "game journalist".
It is this "shared experience" that you talk about that has people up in arms. I know for a fact that Garrus and Tali LI were a much smaller outcry and were addressed in ME 2. The call for more RPG elements in 3 was also not nearly as big as this one for a changed, revised, or expanded upon ending.
This series has been called art by alot of people in the "game media". I would tend to agree our problem is that 95% of the art is great. but the problem is the last 5% is central to the piece. As such that is where the art does meet various promises the artist had put forth when we commished entry into this piece of art. Now what do I mean by that? Well here is the lead artist promise on that last 5% of commissioned artwork.
Hudson: "It's not so much that there is a fixed set of alternative endings, but
all of your choices really determine how things end up in the universe.
So, how you approach the end-game, for every player, you're going to
have a different set of results in terms of who is alive and who is
dead, and which civilisations survived and which ones were wiped
out.There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you
approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it
continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a
classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice
between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different
choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for
everyone who plays it."
Now does that sound like the final piece of that artwork? These were the promises that made us want to preorder ME3. It is those promises that we fall have been broken, not lived up to. Now I will say that I love 95% of the game. However, I do not feel that the ending justifies the $80 price tag that went with it. When that $80 was put down based on promises like the above comment,
Now which camp do I personally fall into in regards to the ending? Personally, if that is the ending we will be stuck with I can live with that.But the ending needs expansion upon. It has to reflect those promises that our choices from earlier matter. Like in the above quote by you no less. And as the ending currently stands we get none of that. So I have tried to keep this civil. and to puntcuate where are issues are.
#580
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:39
Quintega
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No matter what 2 critics say Some (20,000+ fans) is more then Critics(2 listed) You have other Reviewers such As Angry Joe who From Blistered thumbs,Critical Miss from the Escapist, Your fans, Sage From that guy with the Glasses Telling you its a Betrayl to your fan base. I am also certian when Yatzee reviews it that it will also be horrible. The ending was not only a Dues Ex ripoff, but also came so far out of left field that you have a back lash telling you to fix it. Swallow your pride Bioware and Give us an Appropriate ending. The forums already has one listed on Deviant art, put that users name in the credits and put his moddification of your ending into the game.
I Already Cut ties with Capcom for Nonsense like this, I would prefer not to cut ties with Bioware. Also Where is our promised optional Vehical Sections that allow us to use the mako or hammerhead like promised?
I Already Cut ties with Capcom for Nonsense like this, I would prefer not to cut ties with Bioware. Also Where is our promised optional Vehical Sections that allow us to use the mako or hammerhead like promised?
Modifié par Quintega, 17 mars 2012 - 04:51 .
#581
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:41
SuperZombieChow
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Casey, I appreciate your comments (vague though they were). In the interest of dialogue, allow me to offer some counter feedback.
I personally know ten other people who invested in the collectors edition of Mass Effect 3. We are unanimous in our decision to not touch another Bioware product (including our now cancelled accounts in TOR) until a new ending has been publicly announced. No DLC, no games, nothing with the Bioware stamp. We will similarly avoid EA titles. It is ultimately your decision if the lost revenue from disappointed fans is less costly then the expense of releasing an expansion DLC.
Should said DLC be free, we will continue purchasing every piece of Mass Effect DLC (and books, and other items on sale) that you make available. Should the DLC be paid, we will be guaranteed sales but will likely cut back on our Bioware purchases significantly/completely.
The power is in your hands, I hope you will decide not to leave many of your fans hurting by the wayside.
**EDITED FOR SPELLING AND GRAMMAR**
I personally know ten other people who invested in the collectors edition of Mass Effect 3. We are unanimous in our decision to not touch another Bioware product (including our now cancelled accounts in TOR) until a new ending has been publicly announced. No DLC, no games, nothing with the Bioware stamp. We will similarly avoid EA titles. It is ultimately your decision if the lost revenue from disappointed fans is less costly then the expense of releasing an expansion DLC.
Should said DLC be free, we will continue purchasing every piece of Mass Effect DLC (and books, and other items on sale) that you make available. Should the DLC be paid, we will be guaranteed sales but will likely cut back on our Bioware purchases significantly/completely.
The power is in your hands, I hope you will decide not to leave many of your fans hurting by the wayside.
**EDITED FOR SPELLING AND GRAMMAR**
Modifié par SuperZombieChow, 17 mars 2012 - 04:45 .
#582
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:44
Smiley556
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I commend mister Hudsons ability to use so many words to say so little.
#583
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:47
AVPen
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That.... answers nothing. <_<
(yeah, what a shock...)
(yeah, what a shock...)
#584
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:49
DCoacci
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Silicon Drifter 82 wrote...
http://www.forbes.co...or-video-games/
Forbes is all over this shiz
Good read, and it raises a good point. If nothing else, Mass Effect 3's ending has certainly started an important discussion that could influence the future of storytelling in games. Hopefully for the better.
As for Casey's comments: Good on him for standing by his team and their work. I hope to hear more on those upcoming projects, to see what they take away from this whole experience.
#585
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:55
tyranolol
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I hope my English can be understand because is not my first language, and i apologize if something is bad writing but i hope it can be understable.
First Say thanks for the game to the team has made possible this fantastic trilogy but, the problem with the ending of mass effect 3, is i need some responses. Why and how my squad has pass from the fight on eart to the Normandy? What happens with all my decissions? I didn't expect a happy Mass effect 3, it was obviously impossible with an enemy like the reapers, and i even could expect that shepard will die, but this ending is just absolutely lack of all, a good not means to be happy, a good ending is a good ending, sad or happy, and if it's a try of indoctrination from the reaper's part, and is a theory that it makes sense, i can imagine it's not an ended game, which means more money to buy dlcs. I want an ending that really ends the trilogy of Shepard, because it was the idea of this game, of course not of the world of mass effect. I really loved the game but the end is just, and sorry about this, bad. The thing that makes me angry is i must buy 300 dlcs to have a true ending of the histoy, I'm spanish and i don't share the normal atitude of my country mates to play not original games, all my games are original and i'm proud of, but I'm starting to be tired of pay for a game who is not finished and cost me 40€ on digital edition and must pay anothers x€ to have the rest of the game by dlc but that's not the matter of the discussion on this forum so I let my opinion about this theme.
I just want an ending that doesn't make me think, like in this moment, that hundreds of hours in fron of my screen didn't make no sense i just want an ending that gives me something to remember of this game for years, i want an ending that makes me proud of being so many hours in front of my screen, because the ending is the last thing you rember, is just like you go to eat in a restaurant, if your dessert is bad you don't have the good feeling of your meal has worth the money you had pay, is the last flavor you have so it must be better than the rest, is the same for this game, the game is really one of the best, maybe the best, game i ever played but this ending doesn't let me the sensation of that, don't know if i explain it well.
Thanks again for the game and please reapair this ending and make the one worths this fantastic game.
First Say thanks for the game to the team has made possible this fantastic trilogy but, the problem with the ending of mass effect 3, is i need some responses. Why and how my squad has pass from the fight on eart to the Normandy? What happens with all my decissions? I didn't expect a happy Mass effect 3, it was obviously impossible with an enemy like the reapers, and i even could expect that shepard will die, but this ending is just absolutely lack of all, a good not means to be happy, a good ending is a good ending, sad or happy, and if it's a try of indoctrination from the reaper's part, and is a theory that it makes sense, i can imagine it's not an ended game, which means more money to buy dlcs. I want an ending that really ends the trilogy of Shepard, because it was the idea of this game, of course not of the world of mass effect. I really loved the game but the end is just, and sorry about this, bad. The thing that makes me angry is i must buy 300 dlcs to have a true ending of the histoy, I'm spanish and i don't share the normal atitude of my country mates to play not original games, all my games are original and i'm proud of, but I'm starting to be tired of pay for a game who is not finished and cost me 40€ on digital edition and must pay anothers x€ to have the rest of the game by dlc but that's not the matter of the discussion on this forum so I let my opinion about this theme.
I just want an ending that doesn't make me think, like in this moment, that hundreds of hours in fron of my screen didn't make no sense i just want an ending that gives me something to remember of this game for years, i want an ending that makes me proud of being so many hours in front of my screen, because the ending is the last thing you rember, is just like you go to eat in a restaurant, if your dessert is bad you don't have the good feeling of your meal has worth the money you had pay, is the last flavor you have so it must be better than the rest, is the same for this game, the game is really one of the best, maybe the best, game i ever played but this ending doesn't let me the sensation of that, don't know if i explain it well.
Thanks again for the game and please reapair this ending and make the one worths this fantastic game.
#586
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:58
Smiley556
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DCoacci wrote...
Silicon Drifter 82 wrote...
http://www.forbes.co...or-video-games/
Forbes is all over this shiz
Good read, and it raises a good point. If nothing else, Mass Effect 3's ending has certainly started an important discussion that could influence the future of storytelling in games. Hopefully for the better.
As for Casey's comments: Good on him for standing by his team and their work. I hope to hear more on those upcoming projects, to see what they take away from this whole experience.
Gamespot:
Imagine Monet repainting Water Lilies in black and white because people objected to color.
About those comparisons with art. If me and all the other fans collectively paid 60 dollars each for the painting, and monet said ahead of time that he would paint the lillies in black and white, then releases his painting with the lillies in colour, we would have a damn right to object. Thats what being a paying customer is about. If I think a piece of art sucks, I dont buy it. And if Bioware disregards their paying customers this much, well, I dont think their art pieces are going to be selling very good anytime soon.
Artists are told to redo their art pieces all the time when the person Paying for it doesnt like it.
Modifié par Smiley556, 17 mars 2012 - 05:01 .
#587
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:00
aries1001
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Guys, there is a reason why every other game developer other than paying stopped coming to their forums and interacting with the fans a long, long time ago. It is precisely because of some fans not all, but a small, and it seems, vocal? minority of fans, it seems, imo, tend to take everything that is said bu game developers like Casey Hudson etc. as written in stone. It is just as if you have written a report on the tech behind windmills and how they might change the energy industry and then at the exam they'll ask you, why you didn't write on nuclear power instead ? (btw, this is a statement, an observation, not gorunds for political discussions).
The game ME3 was probably planned maybe 2, 3 or even 4 years ago, at least in its first stage, the concept stage. You know, that stage were everything is kicked around in a brain storm, notes are taken etc. etc. And you make a list of what you'd like to have in the game. And then you work and work in them, and suddenly you realize, "hey that idea is not going to work here or hey, that idea doesn't fit here or hey this idea is really cool and all but maybe we'd better save it for another episode etc." Happens all the time in creative endevaours, suchs a writings, making paitings, and also in creating stories told throughs books, movies - or videogames.
Some are ideas are also pushed off the table early either because they're too expensive or the studio, in this casem Biwoare can't afford to develop them properly etc. etc. Casey Hudson's statements or promises? from 2-3 years really don't apply to the game that is now ME3. Casey Hudson probably had to change a lot of things around in the game, simply to get a game released. And yes, the endings probably weren't everyones cup of tea, and maybe the endings were changed for various reasons, but the endings are the endings, it seems. Even if I feel they have something magical to them....
The game ME3 was probably planned maybe 2, 3 or even 4 years ago, at least in its first stage, the concept stage. You know, that stage were everything is kicked around in a brain storm, notes are taken etc. etc. And you make a list of what you'd like to have in the game. And then you work and work in them, and suddenly you realize, "hey that idea is not going to work here or hey, that idea doesn't fit here or hey this idea is really cool and all but maybe we'd better save it for another episode etc." Happens all the time in creative endevaours, suchs a writings, making paitings, and also in creating stories told throughs books, movies - or videogames.
Some are ideas are also pushed off the table early either because they're too expensive or the studio, in this casem Biwoare can't afford to develop them properly etc. etc. Casey Hudson's statements or promises? from 2-3 years really don't apply to the game that is now ME3. Casey Hudson probably had to change a lot of things around in the game, simply to get a game released. And yes, the endings probably weren't everyones cup of tea, and maybe the endings were changed for various reasons, but the endings are the endings, it seems. Even if I feel they have something magical to them....
#588
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:07
a load of stanton
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all i wanted was to turn the reapers into to chesse without a super weapon 
#589
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:19
Damien Nightwind
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I kind of have to agree here, that post actually doesnt say anything, it's just worded to sound nice. But he actually doesnt say anything about the issues that people have. When he mentions the "remaining experiences" that could mean DLC that has nothing to do with the ending and just adds content into the story, which would be a complete waste of time because i am sure that most of the people would not bother buying it because they dont want to play the game again after those endings.
I really hope Bioware is listening and not being blind to this, with so many people hating the endings (and thats just the ones posting on the forums, doesnt include the ones who havent posted) it is quite possible that not fixing the endings would mean the end of Bioware. I'm no expert in buisness, but even i can tell that annoying over 90% of your fan base is not going to be good for business.
I really hope Bioware is listening and not being blind to this, with so many people hating the endings (and thats just the ones posting on the forums, doesnt include the ones who havent posted) it is quite possible that not fixing the endings would mean the end of Bioware. I'm no expert in buisness, but even i can tell that annoying over 90% of your fan base is not going to be good for business.
#590
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:29
iamzer0xx
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Smiley556 wrote...
DCoacci wrote...
Silicon Drifter 82 wrote...
http://www.forbes.co...or-video-games/
Forbes is all over this shiz
Good read, and it raises a good point. If nothing else, Mass Effect 3's ending has certainly started an important discussion that could influence the future of storytelling in games. Hopefully for the better.
As for Casey's comments: Good on him for standing by his team and their work. I hope to hear more on those upcoming projects, to see what they take away from this whole experience.Gamespot:
Imagine Monet repainting Water Lilies in black and white because people objected to color.
About those comparisons with art. If me and all the other fans collectively paid 60 dollars each for the painting, and monet said ahead of time that he would paint the lillies in black and white, then releases his painting with the lillies in colour, we would have a damn right to object. Thats what being a paying customer is about. If I think a piece of art sucks, I dont buy it. And if Bioware disregards their paying customers this much, well, I dont think their art pieces are going to be selling very good anytime soon.
Artists are told to redo their art pieces all the time when the person Paying for it doesnt like it.
Do you proof read the things you actually write?
#591
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:37
DCoacci
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Smiley556 wrote...
About those comparisons with art. If me and all the other fans collectively paid 60 dollars each for the painting, and monet said ahead of time that he would paint the lillies in black and white, then releases his painting with the lillies in colour, we would have a damn right to object. Thats what being a paying customer is about. If I think a piece of art sucks, I dont buy it. And if Bioware disregards their paying customers this much, well, I dont think their art pieces are going to be selling very good anytime soon.
Artists are told to redo their art pieces all the time when the person Paying for it doesnt like it.
Interesting way to look at it, but a bit narrow-minded I think. Yes, artists will change their work if the customer requests it, but that's usually a one-on-one thing. That sort of thing stays strictly between the artist and his or her client. We are not Bioware's client. EA is. If EA requests a change, Bioware may not have a choice but to do it (which they probably did, for all we know). The artist's fans, normally, are just observers. They have no say in what the artist does. Sure they can criticise, but the artist has no obligation to listen to them.
But as the Forbes article pointed out, the gaming industry is unique in that players actively participate in the stories the developpers are trying to tell. Fan feedback is important in this case, and yet many devs don't bother to listen to it. I think we should count ourselves lucky that Bioware has actually taken fan feedback into consideration for some of the decisions for the Mass Effect series. No, the ending wasn't exactly as promised, but it was close. And, more importantly, it was an ending. In an age where devs want to release a new game in a series every year until they run their most successful franchises into the ground *cough* Ubisoft *cough*, this is pretty amazing.
Bioware has thousands, if not millions of fans. Everyone has a different say. Nearly 2 million people bought Mass Effect 3, and I don't see those 2 million people complaining on these forums. In fact, from looking around the web, opinions on the ending seem split 50/50. And also consider that most people who played the game haven't even bothered to voice their opinions.
You can't please everyone, and Casey's statement shows they were fully aware of it going into ME3. The fact Bioware is even listening, and, judging from some of the rumours going around, possibly considering making a change, is pretty amazing.
Monet never did that. But then, he didn't have Facebook and Twitter.
Modifié par DCoacci, 17 mars 2012 - 05:38 .
#592
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:37
Balgard
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Sure, I could understand if the comments or quotes you can find about things were done and said at some point in 2010 where things could have changed in a couple of years, but in the case of Mass Effect 3 isn't the case, there were interviews 1 month before release, in which at that point it's supposed to be finished manufactured and being shipped so you couldn't take or change anything to the game, or even a few days before release where Casey Hudson said things that arent like that.aries1001 wrote...
Some are ideas are also pushed off the table early either because they're too expensive or the studio, in this casem Biwoare can't afford to develop them properly etc. etc. Casey Hudson's statements or promises? from 2-3 years really don't apply to the game that is now ME3. Casey Hudson probably had to change a lot of things around in the game, simply to get a game released. And yes, the endings probably weren't everyones cup of tea, and maybe the endings were changed for various reasons, but the endings are the endings, it seems. Even if I feel they have something magical to them....
Interview from Computer and Videogames, Feb 17 2012 here
As I see it, that's a pretty straight answer, there's nothing vague about that, it wasn't going to be a linear game which it is, the final moments was going to take into consideration very large decisions and wasn't going to be a choice between a few things, which it is and even on the final moments was going to be different for everyone who plays it, which is not.Q: Are there alternative endings depending on what you do in the game?
A: It's not so much that there is a fixed set of alternative endings, but all of your choices really determine how things end up in the universe. So, how you approach the end-game, for every player, you're going to have a different set of results in terms of who is alive and who is dead, and which civilisations survived and which ones were wiped out.
There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.
So acting and saying vague things now that "all hell broke lose" because it's a PR damage control thing feels empty, if during time before release all the interviews were vague, sure, that could be understandable and even there wouldn't have been a lot to say about it, because there could've been the possibility to be misunderstood but it wasn't, because of publicity, hype, and whatever else you want to refer to, all the media, public and fans was having direct and straight answers with all the interviews that happened before the release but after it was a finished game of what to expect from the game.
If the current ending as it is, is going to be the final ending, I think people would like a straight answer, is that too much to ask for? After all the straight answers that were given in the past, would one more be that terrible that now since the time of release it's been only vague comments?
Edit: Formatting properly.
Modifié par Balgard, 17 mars 2012 - 05:44 .
#593
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:37
Smiley556
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iamzer0xx wrote...
Do you proof read the things you actually write?
If you want to proof read my postings and point out spelling/grammar mistakes feel free to do so, but I dont really care much for grammar ****s.
#594
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:39
Rixxencaxx
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Well....mr hudson.....NyTimes praised THE GAME not the ending....NO ONE IN THE WORLD praised THE ENDING.......the majority of people think that 99% of ME 3 is a beatiful game...but not the last 1%
#595
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:39
Getorex
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Bioware does NOT get to dictate the ending. Not in this case. It is not their work to do with as they see fit. Why? Because from the beginning it was advertised and PROMISED as a collaborative game where the player, not the writers, would determine the outcome for their own character. WE get to make decisions that carry forward and determine the ending, NOT the developers simply slapping an ending on our characters. They didn't advertise or promise a game of that type, quite the opposite, but that is what they delivered. They falsely advertised and, quite simply, LIED about what they were selling us. I did NOT pay money for what they gave me, I paid for what they PROMISED me. Huge difference. The customer is always (always) right.
#596
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:41
ubergine
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My prediction: In twenty years games will be downloadable directly to your brain stem.
EA will launch their own biological download service and call it "BioWare".
People will comment on the irony of EA using the name of some old RPG-maker that they bought then ruined.
The cycle will continue.
EA will launch their own biological download service and call it "BioWare".
People will comment on the irony of EA using the name of some old RPG-maker that they bought then ruined.
The cycle will continue.
#597
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:44
Keyalha
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Mr Hudson can keep his DLC until the utterly Broken Ending is fixed they dont see any more money from me ever that seems the only language the likes of him do understand.
All he said was some more hot air and marketing bla bla nothing but bull...it
All he said was some more hot air and marketing bla bla nothing but bull...it
Modifié par Keyalha, 17 mars 2012 - 05:49 .
#598
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:44
Smiley556
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DCoacci wrote...
Smiley556 wrote...
About those comparisons with art. If me and all the other fans collectively paid 60 dollars each for the painting, and monet said ahead of time that he would paint the lillies in black and white, then releases his painting with the lillies in colour, we would have a damn right to object. Thats what being a paying customer is about. If I think a piece of art sucks, I dont buy it. And if Bioware disregards their paying customers this much, well, I dont think their art pieces are going to be selling very good anytime soon.
Artists are told to redo their art pieces all the time when the person Paying for it doesnt like it.
Interesting way to look at it, but a bit narrow-minded I think. Yes, artists will change their work if the customer requests it, but that's usually a one-on-one thing. That sort of thing stays strictly between the artist and his or her client. We are not Bioware's client. EA is. If EA requests a change, Bioware may not have a choice but to do it (which they probably did, for all we know). The artist's fans, normally, are just observers. They have no say in what the artist does. Sure they can criticise, but the artist has no obligation to listen to them.
But as the Forbes article pointed out, the gaming industry is unique in that players actively participate in the stories the developpers are trying to tell. Fan feedback is important in this case, and yet many devs don't bother to listen to it. I think we should count ourselves lucky that Bioware has actually taken fan feedback into consideration for some of the decisions for the Mass Effect series. No, the ending wasn't exactly as promised, but it was close. And, more importantly, it was an ending. In an age where devs want to release a new game in a series every year until they run their most successful franchises into the ground *cough* Ubisoft *cough*, this is pretty amazing.
Bioware has thousands, if not millions of fans. Everyone has a different say. Nearly 2 million people bought Mass Effect 3, and I don't see those 2 million people complaining on these forums. In fact, from looking around the web, opinions on the ending seem split 50/50. And also consider that most people who played the game haven't even bothered to voice their opinions.
You can't please everyone, and Casey's statement shows they were fully aware of it going into ME3. The fact Bioware is even listening, and, judging from some of the rumours going around, possibly considering making a change, is pretty amazing.
Monet never did that. But then, he didn't have Facebook and Twitter.
You are right there but I think you didnt completely get the meaning of my post. If people are going to compare a computer game to a monet painting, it might sound very poetic at first, but I can just as easily use that comparison against them. I geuss what Im saying is that a computer game is not art, its entertainment. And in the entertainment business Im a paying customer.
#599
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:45
Getorex
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thatdude90210 wrote...
"not the last you'll hear from Cmd Shepard" I have a feeling that means we get to help Aria retake Omega, then get to the sucky ending.
Heh. Right. And just like EVERYTHING else in the game, all the good things you do (genophage, Quarian homeworld and war with geth, etc) it will be nullified by the ending with the exploding mass relays. Omega is right there close to a relay.
Hey Aria, here you go. Have Omega back!
BOOM!
All dead.
#600
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:45
Damien Nightwind
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Just want to make this clear for Bioware and all the people who make the "Art" comment.
If an artist makes something for themself then yes there is no right to complain or demand changes to it, that much is true. However...
If something is made specifically for other people, and those people are paying for it, then damn right they have a right to complain if they dont like it. If you bought a sandwich from a grocery store thinking it was one kind of sandwich but despite the label on it found out that it was a different kind that you dont like, would you just accept it and eat it anyway?
Do you know what happens to artists who dont work to their clients expectations? They dont get any clients because no one is willing to pay for something they dont like. The same can be said of Bioware, alot of people have said that they wont play Bioware games ever again, or that they wont buy them until they are in the bargain bin, or just that they will never pre order again until they know that the game will be worth it.
So basically for anyone who decides to post a comment about Video Games and Art, dont waste your time and ours please. Because it seems that us people with complaints can see through your arguements and come up with alot more valid points on the subject than you can.
If an artist makes something for themself then yes there is no right to complain or demand changes to it, that much is true. However...
If something is made specifically for other people, and those people are paying for it, then damn right they have a right to complain if they dont like it. If you bought a sandwich from a grocery store thinking it was one kind of sandwich but despite the label on it found out that it was a different kind that you dont like, would you just accept it and eat it anyway?
Do you know what happens to artists who dont work to their clients expectations? They dont get any clients because no one is willing to pay for something they dont like. The same can be said of Bioware, alot of people have said that they wont play Bioware games ever again, or that they wont buy them until they are in the bargain bin, or just that they will never pre order again until they know that the game will be worth it.
So basically for anyone who decides to post a comment about Video Games and Art, dont waste your time and ours please. Because it seems that us people with complaints can see through your arguements and come up with alot more valid points on the subject than you can.
