1907 réponses à ce sujet

[Lilarcor01]

"This is not the last you’ll hear of Commander Shepard. "
Sadly, it could also mean that in the new Mass Effect games we will hear or read about Commander Shepard who lived x years ago...well that wouldn't be satisfying at all.

"Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection."

This is kind of a contradiction. Of course, sacrificing yourself could mean victory but I can't fathom how it could be uplifting. One of the themes of all Mass Effect games was succes in the face of impossible odds. I really don't care if in one or two endings you die or sacrifice yourself for others, but there still should be an ending where you survive and succed dispite the odds. You know...choices...

[IsleySilverlord]

Cool story.

Can you actually give us an answer?

Fixing the endings or not?

My wallet's still closed.

Modifié par asdoorip, 17 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[Alexraptor1]

As people have pointed out, the core issue here is that the entire fanbase has been mislead.
That is an irrefutable fact.

I too was greatly anticipating the diverging plotlines which BioWare was touting.
But instead the final game was the complete poral opposite.
Instead of things divering, everything converged instead to the exact same and 100% identical event.
To swallow either the blue, red or green pill.

[DCoacci]

Smiley556 wrote...

You are right there but I think you didnt completely get the meaning of my post. If people are going to compare a computer game to a monet painting, it might sound very poetic at first, but I can just as easily use that comparison against them. I geuss what Im saying is that a computer game is not art, its entertainment. And in the entertainment business Im a paying customer. 

Yeah, I tried to turn my point into something more general, and I guess the main message I was going for got lost. What I'm saying is: People on these forums aren't the only voices in cyberpsace. And not the only people on the planet who played the game. Those people (not you) insulting the devs on their own forums are naive in thinking it's gonna get any results. As you said, you are a paying customer. So, vote with your wallet. If you don't like what Bioware is doing, don't give them anymore of your money. Those who like what they did will continue to buy their products. Economics will see to the rest. It's as simple as that.

As for the Video Games are Art thing: Any media, be it a movie, a book, a video game, a painting, whatever, that can have an emotional impact on me is art. That's how I see it. 

Damien Nightwind wrote...

Just want to make this clear for Bioware and all the people who make the "Art" comment.

If an artist makes something for themself then yes there is no right to complain or demand changes to it, that much is true. However...

If something is made specifically for other people, and those people are paying for it, then damn right they have a right to complain if they dont like it. If you bought a sandwich from a grocery store thinking it was one kind of sandwich but despite the label on it found out that it was a different kind that you dont like, would you just accept it and eat it anyway?

Do you know what happens to artists who dont work to their clients expectations? They dont get any clients because no one is willing to pay for something they dont like. The same can be said of Bioware, alot of people have said that they wont play Bioware games ever again, or that they wont buy them until they are in the bargain bin, or just that they will never pre order again until they know that the game will be worth it.

So basically for anyone who decides to post a comment about Video Games and Art, dont waste your time and ours please. Because it seems that us people with complaints can see through your arguements and come up with alot more valid points on the subject than you can.

 

No. You can't. There are good arguments on both sides. You people are just decidedly more vocal about it than the rest of us.

You don't win an argument by being louder than the other person. If anything it makes people hate you, which is what's happening right now around the gaming industry. Bioware fans are sadly being represented very poorly by the media in general because of what's been going on.

The game was not made specifically for those on this forum. It was made to have mass appeal, as much as possible. Like many other commercial products. And like all mainstream entertainment, there will always be wildly different opinions on it. A lot of people think the Transformers movies were garbage, and yet those movies made hundreds of millions of dollars. A lot of people and critics loved "The Artist" yet it made little money.

It's not just about you. Always think of the bigger picture. You have a right to your opinion, but saying everyone else is wrong is total bull. Everyone has a difference of opinion on what they experience. This includes the ending to Mass Effect 3.

[huyster1]

Basically, they made there money and that's that. I really don't think anything we say matters as long as we keep saying it. It's this lingering attention that they really want.

[Sonicsnak3]

Kloreep wrote...

Esquin wrote...

YOu have no idea what you're talking about. Kindly go educate yourself.

We don't want a happy ending. We want an ending that makes sense and gives us closure.

How about simmering down a bit. Who is this "we?"

Part of the problem Casey & co. must have faced trying to put a statement together for this is there is not a united group. None that I've seen. Some people are unhappy with the bittersweet nature of the ending (whereas others, like me, might have complained if it was happier). Others feel they were robbed of closure, wanting at least a DAO-style epilogue. (Can't say I'm among them either, though I can see where they're coming from.) Others cringed at the lore reveals or other aspects of the last ten minutes (Yo! *raises hand*). Some complain on more than one of those accounts.

So who, exactly, should Casey be addressing? In large part, he seems to be talking to the Closure group rather than the others, so I personally can't say it spoke to my complaints. But I don't expect him to, certainly not so soon after the game's release. Especially if he's decided he doesn't want to talk spoilers yet - a reasonable stance this soon after the release of such a big game.

I'm certainly curious to hear more about the ending from Casey, the writing staff, or other involved people on the team, but that's probably better left for another day when both the devs and fans have more distance. I'm certainly not among those who think they're going to just up and change the ending because it's been criticized. Many people may not be happy with it, I may not be happy with it, that does not automatically mean they must change what they've crafted.

But this is where you are wrong, Casey & Co promised us 16 completely different endings, not 1 Ending thats 95% the same minus a couple of tweaks here and there. Im fine with the fact that he believes some mystery and plot holes are healthy for the fans to fill in themselves but THE CONCLUSION TO MASS EFFECT 3 is way overboard. Too much is unexplained, left out and its down right INSULTING that we get shipped and conned into buying the NON-COMPLETE finish to a trilogy, and we may or may not have to pay for the real epilogue or reboot. Ridiculous...

[Smiley556]

DCoacci wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

You are right there but I think you didnt completely get the meaning of my post. If people are going to compare a computer game to a monet painting, it might sound very poetic at first, but I can just as easily use that comparison against them. I geuss what Im saying is that a computer game is not art, its entertainment. And in the entertainment business Im a paying customer. 

Yeah, I tried to turn my point into something more general, and I guess the main message I was going for got lost. What I'm saying is: People on these forums aren't the only voices in cyberpsace. And not the only people on the planet who played the game. Those people (not you) insulting the devs on their own forums are naive in thinking it's gonna get any results. As you said, you are a paying customer. So, vote with your wallet. If you don't like what Bioware is doing, don't give them anymore of your money. Those who like what they did will continue to buy their products. Economics will see to the rest. It's as simple as that.

As for the Video Games are Art thing: Any media, be it a movie, a book, a video game, a painting, whatever, that can have an emotional impact on me is art. That's how I see it. 

I will vote with my wallet if it comes round to it, but I would like to avoid that situation by making my voice be heard. Every day companies screw over their consumers, because consumers dont let their dissatisfaction be heard. No I'm aware not everybody has the same opinion as me, but I'm letting mine be heard, and so are many others. And thats exactly what every consumer in every industry should do. I agree insulting devs and such is bad and that disgusts me too, but that shouldnt take away the bigger picture that these consumers are unsatisfied, and are being vocal about it. The idea that everybody who isnt vocal about their dissatisfaction agrees with the product is just wrong. I'm not saying everybody is unsatisfied, but saying the oposite, that everybody who doesnt open their mouth is happy about the product, is equally wrong.

We are letting our dissatisfaction about the product that is Mass Effect 3 be heard. And dismissing our opinion on the premise of art is unsulting to us as consumers. If I do turn out to be a minority, and/or Bioware doesnt head our opinion then atleast we had our opinion heard. Sadly that will mean I have to indeed vote with my wallet in the future.

[Jenrais]

 Sigh

This is whats happening at EA right now

http://imageshack.us...949f44a2a6.jpg/



Credit to lil_89 for posting it

[JMJ_91]

Not the last you'll hear of Shepard?

That could just mean some pre-ending Singleplayer DLC as well. I'm hoping it doesn't but it's very likely

[Paulus magintie]

The only problem I had with the ending was there was no cheesy shots of worlds rebuilding or how things turn out after the war.

If Shepard dies statues are made and erected on earth or other planets, if he lives show him with a family or something. The choices during the game should have made some characters die at the end of the game to after all it wasn't just you fighting in London everybody was down there.

How did one of your team mates get hit by a reaper and end up on another planet with joker? I don't care if shepard lives or dies at the end because him dying is somewhat expected and welcomed.

But the whole "No matter what you pick the ending is rushed anyway" its rubbish and is only good enough for 1 playthrough.

[IsleySilverlord]

DCoacci wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

You are right there but I think you didnt completely get the meaning of my post. If people are going to compare a computer game to a monet painting, it might sound very poetic at first, but I can just as easily use that comparison against them. I geuss what Im saying is that a computer game is not art, its entertainment. And in the entertainment business Im a paying customer. 

Yeah, I tried to turn my point into something more general, and I guess the main message I was going for got lost. What I'm saying is: People on these forums aren't the only voices in cyberpsace. And not the only people on the planet who played the game. Those people (not you) insulting the devs on their own forums are naive in thinking it's gonna get any results. As you said, you are a paying customer. So, vote with your wallet. If you don't like what Bioware is doing, don't give them anymore of your money. Those who like what they did will continue to buy their products. Economics will see to the rest. It's as simple as that.

As for the Video Games are Art thing: Any media, be it a movie, a book, a video game, a painting, whatever, that can have an emotional impact on me is art. That's how I see it. 

Damien Nightwind wrote...

Just want to make this clear for Bioware and all the people who make the "Art" comment.

If an artist makes something for themself then yes there is no right to complain or demand changes to it, that much is true. However...

If something is made specifically for other people, and those people are paying for it, then damn right they have a right to complain if they dont like it. If you bought a sandwich from a grocery store thinking it was one kind of sandwich but despite the label on it found out that it was a different kind that you dont like, would you just accept it and eat it anyway?

Do you know what happens to artists who dont work to their clients expectations? They dont get any clients because no one is willing to pay for something they dont like. The same can be said of Bioware, alot of people have said that they wont play Bioware games ever again, or that they wont buy them until they are in the bargain bin, or just that they will never pre order again until they know that the game will be worth it.

So basically for anyone who decides to post a comment about Video Games and Art, dont waste your time and ours please. Because it seems that us people with complaints can see through your arguements and come up with alot more valid points on the subject than you can.

 

No. You can't. There are good arguments on both sides. You people are just decidedly more vocal about it than the rest of us.

You don't win an argument by being louder than the other person. If anything it makes people hate you, which is what's happening right now around the gaming industry. Bioware fans are sadly being represented very poorly by the media in general because of what's been going on.

The game was not made specifically for those on this forum. It was made to have mass appeal, as much as possible. Like many other commercial products. And like all mainstream entertainment, there will always be wildly different opinions on it. A lot of people think the Transformers movies were garbage, and yet those movies made hundreds of millions of dollars. A lot of people and critics loved "The Artist" yet it made little money.

It's not just about you. Always think of the bigger picture. You have a right to your opinion, but saying everyone else is wrong is total bull. Everyone has a difference of opinion on what they experience. This includes the ending to Mass Effect 3.

Missing the point, as usual.

Most of us find ME3, overall, fantastic: Endings are the problem for 95% based on most polls.

It's not that we "don't like" the endings. Forget about that, just remove than from your minds.

Endings make no sense, they lack consistency and coherence. It's not that they aren't what we were "promised", they didn't even get close. Not because we were expecting them to were just brighter, or better, or something like that (some of us did expect that, but that's not the point really). We expected our choices after five years to matter, we expected different outcomes and we expected closure.

So yes, we do have the right to complain , push, and pressure ALWAYS staying polite.

Most of us stayed polite, most of us have always been polite. We're still being polite.

Can we complain? Of course.
Can they fix it? Absolutely.
Can they just ignore us? Probably yes.

But as most of us state : Every action have its consequences, they're not forced to give us what we want, we're free to close our wallets and go away. And that my friend, trust me, isn't good for them.

Have a pleasant day.

Hold the line.

[bobito64]

blue_cosmos wrote...

I can't believe how unreasonable alot of the people are here on this thread; just be thankful that Casey's bothered to take the time out and reassure the fans that the Mass Effect universe is the result of the collaboration between the development team and the fans. Obviously, its PR suicide to come right out and promise anything to be done or acknowledge the validity of negative feelings surrounding the endings.  

Just be patient and see what happens.... it's only been about 2 weeks after the official launch date and that is way too short a time to expect an immediate plan of action to be dished out by the executive producer. Alot more analysis needs to be done by the team, so of course Casey can't say anything else of substance... he's doing what he's can at the moment.

He didn't. A member of EA's PR damage control team almost certainly wrote this in his name. 

[Getorex]

The ending was supposed to be based on USER DECISIONS. That was promised, that was advertised. My personal choices would lead to Shepard NOT dead and WITH his LI. Sure, there could be other endings to satisfy the nihilists as well. More power and all, but what was NOT adverstised or promised was an ending that would be shoveled down all our throats, one size fits all. I didn't pay for that and I wouldn't have paid for that if I had known it was coming.

[Canned Bullets]

Good, this means that we get FREE post-game DLC that actually has CLOSURE. That's what I got from that and it better happen. I know the DLC will cost money, but what happened to a complete experience out of the box? 

Modifié par Canned Bullets, 17 mars 2012 - 06:42 .

[OmegaBlue0231]

Well my wallet is remaining closed for now.

[Getorex]

bobito64 wrote...

blue_cosmos wrote...

I can't believe how unreasonable alot of the people are here on this thread; just be thankful that Casey's bothered to take the time out and reassure the fans that the Mass Effect universe is the result of the collaboration between the development team and the fans. Obviously, its PR suicide to come right out and promise anything to be done or acknowledge the validity of negative feelings surrounding the endings.  

Just be patient and see what happens.... it's only been about 2 weeks after the official launch date and that is way too short a time to expect an immediate plan of action to be dished out by the executive producer. Alot more analysis needs to be done by the team, so of course Casey can't say anything else of substance... he's doing what he's can at the moment.

He didn't. A member of EA's PR damage control team almost certainly wrote this in his name. 

It's simpler than that.  Casey can simply give a short, sweet answer that spoils nothing.  He can say, "We've heard the 90%+ of fans that disliked the way ME3 ended and we are going to fix it.  It will take time but it will come.  We promise."

There.  Fixed.  Firestorm gets extinguished and people can go back to playing again while they wait for the fix.  Easy.

[Sonicsnak3]

asdoorip wrote...

DCoacci wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

You are right there but I think you didnt completely get the meaning of my post. If people are going to compare a computer game to a monet painting, it might sound very poetic at first, but I can just as easily use that comparison against them. I geuss what Im saying is that a computer game is not art, its entertainment. And in the entertainment business Im a paying customer. 

Yeah, I tried to turn my point into something more general, and I guess the main message I was going for got lost. What I'm saying is: People on these forums aren't the only voices in cyberpsace. And not the only people on the planet who played the game. Those people (not you) insulting the devs on their own forums are naive in thinking it's gonna get any results. As you said, you are a paying customer. So, vote with your wallet. If you don't like what Bioware is doing, don't give them anymore of your money. Those who like what they did will continue to buy their products. Economics will see to the rest. It's as simple as that.

As for the Video Games are Art thing: Any media, be it a movie, a book, a video game, a painting, whatever, that can have an emotional impact on me is art. That's how I see it. 

Damien Nightwind wrote...

Just want to make this clear for Bioware and all the people who make the "Art" comment.

If an artist makes something for themself then yes there is no right to complain or demand changes to it, that much is true. However...

If something is made specifically for other people, and those people are paying for it, then damn right they have a right to complain if they dont like it. If you bought a sandwich from a grocery store thinking it was one kind of sandwich but despite the label on it found out that it was a different kind that you dont like, would you just accept it and eat it anyway?

Do you know what happens to artists who dont work to their clients expectations? They dont get any clients because no one is willing to pay for something they dont like. The same can be said of Bioware, alot of people have said that they wont play Bioware games ever again, or that they wont buy them until they are in the bargain bin, or just that they will never pre order again until they know that the game will be worth it.

So basically for anyone who decides to post a comment about Video Games and Art, dont waste your time and ours please. Because it seems that us people with complaints can see through your arguements and come up with alot more valid points on the subject than you can.

 

No. You can't. There are good arguments on both sides. You people are just decidedly more vocal about it than the rest of us.

You don't win an argument by being louder than the other person. If anything it makes people hate you, which is what's happening right now around the gaming industry. Bioware fans are sadly being represented very poorly by the media in general because of what's been going on.

The game was not made specifically for those on this forum. It was made to have mass appeal, as much as possible. Like many other commercial products. And like all mainstream entertainment, there will always be wildly different opinions on it. A lot of people think the Transformers movies were garbage, and yet those movies made hundreds of millions of dollars. A lot of people and critics loved "The Artist" yet it made little money.

It's not just about you. Always think of the bigger picture. You have a right to your opinion, but saying everyone else is wrong is total bull. Everyone has a difference of opinion on what they experience. This includes the ending to Mass Effect 3.

Missing the point, as usual.

Most of us find ME3, overall, fantastic: Endings are the problem for 95% based on most polls.

It's not that we "don't like" the endings. Forget about that, just remove than from your minds.

Endings make no sense, they lack consistency and coherence. It's not that they aren't what we were "promised", they didn't even get close. Not because we were expecting them to were just brighter, or better, or something like that (some of us did expect that, but that's not the point really). We expected our choices after five years to matter, we expected different outcomes and we expected closure.

So yes, we do have the right to complain , push, and pressure ALWAYS staying polite.

Most of us stayed polite, most of us have always been polite. We're still being polite.

Can we complain? Of course.
Can they fix it? Absolutely.
Can they just ignore us? Probably yes.

But as most of us state : Every action have its consequences, they're not forced to give us what we want, we're free to close our wallets and go away. And that my friend, trust me, isn't good for them.

Have a pleasant day.

Hold the line.

Exactly right. Most people are giving up, refusing to buy further content and its not even been 2 weeks yet. A lot of pre-owned Mass Effect 3's out there because since last week the entire series lost its replayability. But like you and many other loyal fans we will HOLD THE LINE, and have faith in BioWare to actually directly talk to us rather than make vague statements.

[Vincent Rosevalliant]

I don't understand why they had to write the ending at all and hadn't already in the first place? Isn't the ending of a story the goal of the entire thing? Wasn't it thought out the moment the Reapers were introduced? Like before production of Mass Effect1. Did they really just start writing without ever thinking about the ending until it was upon them? Writing themselves into a corner..........then ? THE END
It was the worst writing I have ever seen in any medium ever. The beginning was cringeworthy as well. "We fight or we die. That's the plan". He meant to say "and".
The Gameplay was really good. Just irrelevent. Could have just as well let Eden Prime burn and Saren win. Same "heroic" outcome.

[eternalnightmare13]

Kudos to Bioware for not changing their vision just because of a minority of somewhat vocal fans. No artist(s) should change their vision for that reason.

[crazyrabbits]

Alexraptor1 wrote...

As people have pointed out, the core issue here is that the entire fanbase has been mislead.
That is an irrefutable fact.

There is no way to gauge the "entire fanbase" beyond the hardcore minority on this board. I've seen the same BSN members going on Amazon to trash the game and on Metacritic to downvote.

Honestly, I'm sick of listening to this constant whining - I get it already. People don't like ending. Nothing Bioware does is ever going to be good enough for you. I'm out from these boards. Maybe when I come back, the riffraff will have cleared out and we'll finally get some level-headed discussion without people resorting to hysterics, vitrol, wild accusations and threats.

Modifié par crazyrabbits, 17 mars 2012 - 07:02 .

[IsleySilverlord]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Kudos to Bioware for not changing their vision just because of a minority of somewhat vocal fans. No artist(s) should change their vision for that reason.

Minority : 90% according all polls, not only here but all over the world.

Interested on reality? Google it up.

Ignoring doesn't mean it's not happening.

Hold the line.

[Sonicsnak3]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Kudos to Bioware for not changing their vision just because of a minority of somewhat vocal fans. No artist(s) should change their vision for that reason.

They made it just as much our story as theirs, thats the difference and the individuality of Mass Effect compared to other games. BioWare gave us free reign and freedom of choice in this expansive universe, they may have invented it but WE have invested in it and gained just as much standpoint. We have a RIGHT to convey we were not happy with how they lied and failed to live up to their promises. We have a RIGHT to be angry, how would you feel if say you gave someone you trusted a lot of time and money only to have them seem to forget that, and go their own way... Cut us some slack dude

Modifié par Sonicsnak3, 17 mars 2012 - 07:08 .

[Canned Bullets]

Sonicsnak3 wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Kudos to Bioware for not changing their vision just because of a minority of somewhat vocal fans. No artist(s) should change their vision for that reason.

They made it just as much our story as theirs, thats the difference and the individuality of Mass Effect compared to other games. BioWare gave us free reign and freedom of choice in this expansive universe, they may have invented it but WE have invested in it and gained just as much standpoint. We have a RIGHT to convey we were not happy with how they lied and failed to live up to their promises. We have a RIGHT to be angry, how would you feel if say you gave someone you trusted a lot of time and money only to have them seem to forget that, and go their own way... Cut us some slack dude

Yeah, also it is NOT the minority that hate the ending of the game. Bioware claimed that they developed Mass Effect 3 with the fans in mind. That is just an insult because that's saying the fans want this kind of disatisfying ending. It would be like Metallica saying they wrote St. Anger with the fans in mind; that would just be insulting.

[Meshaber]

Well, this was expected.

Not specifically commenting on the issue at hand can mean one of two things. Either they're holding out to keep us interested even though nothing is coming, or they haven't made up their own minds yet.

Both assumptions are fairly plausible I suppose, looking forward to seeing how this plays out.