I'm going to simplify this give the people what they want and before anyone says would you change the mona lisa or random movie because people did not like it and I would say one that's a painting and two people write and re-write, cut and add stuff to movies after the guy writes the first scripts and lets not forget that people remake movies all the time because you cant add stuff on to a finished movie but you can to a finished video game. Now the question is should you and this is where it gets fuzzy as someone said earlier if this was not marketed as a chose your own adventure where the decisions you make from mass effect 1 into the second and third game effect the way my story unfolds the yes dont change because we knew what we were getting in to but that was not case. Mass Effect WAS marketed as a choose you own adventure but it fell MILES short at the end and people want that fixed they ARE entitled to that fix. They are entitled to the happy, sad,or something the involves the promised closure not just the same scene but different color ending no matter the choices that were made leading up to it. <<< This made sense in my head.
Yeps so there is my two cents but I think I may have got off topic so in regards to Cassy. Nice non-answer.
Never forget Marauder Shields.
Casey Hudson discusses the conclusion of Mass Effect 3
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, mars 17 2012 01:23
Retour en haut
#652
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:37
Farbautisonn
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Im just wondering what the hell it is that they think will lure the fans back. "if the fans knew..."?
Well "the fans" DONT and soon we wont care.
What is it thats so special, so unique, so great, that it is perfectly ok to loose both credibility, cash and fans over? I REALLY want to know?
Givent the track record so far I'd wager: "nothing".
Because "nothing" is what we heard from the promise a month ago that they were revising the last novel but it still sells as is on Amazon.
Because "nothing" is what we got from the concerns about DA2 that we voiced an were told were "listened to".
You can fool some of the people some of the time. You cant fool us all, all of the time.
Well "the fans" DONT and soon we wont care.
What is it thats so special, so unique, so great, that it is perfectly ok to loose both credibility, cash and fans over? I REALLY want to know?
Givent the track record so far I'd wager: "nothing".
Because "nothing" is what we heard from the promise a month ago that they were revising the last novel but it still sells as is on Amazon.
Because "nothing" is what we got from the concerns about DA2 that we voiced an were told were "listened to".
You can fool some of the people some of the time. You cant fool us all, all of the time.
Modifié par Farbautisonn, 17 mars 2012 - 08:39 .
#653
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:37
Getorex
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Sheesh. Here I thought my crew was on MY TEAM! I would never have abandoned one or more of them to die alone on some battlefield somewhere but there they were at the end of ME3 RUNNING AWAY while I'm bleeding out alone in that rubble.
Run away! Run away! Hell, the two people I had with me in the final fight managed to skip out without me too without so much as a "by your leave." Oh yeah, Ash, my "love interest", Garrus, by best bud, Liara, my near love, Tali, same...you ALL skipped on me and ran away?
****s. After all I did for you guys you shiv me like that? Yellow bastards.
Run away! Run away! Hell, the two people I had with me in the final fight managed to skip out without me too without so much as a "by your leave." Oh yeah, Ash, my "love interest", Garrus, by best bud, Liara, my near love, Tali, same...you ALL skipped on me and ran away?
****s. After all I did for you guys you shiv me like that? Yellow bastards.
Modifié par Getorex, 17 mars 2012 - 08:41 .
#654
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:40
morten n86
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I want a choice and be able to get a happy ending. like ME2 this only had straight to hell end, and a little to hell end. why cant there be ONE happy where everybody eats cake after. that was one off my favorite things with mass effect. that everything could happen. not that all gets f.... up no mater what you do.
99% of the game are superb
its just a shame that its the 1% at the end you remember
and lets be honest ruins some of the game for alot of gamers.
I dont think so many would be upset, if we had one alternativ end that turnd out good.
would have liked one ending where the squad got back together with shep (but thats just my wish) :-D
99% of the game are superb
its just a shame that its the 1% at the end you remember
and lets be honest ruins some of the game for alot of gamers.
I dont think so many would be upset, if we had one alternativ end that turnd out good.
would have liked one ending where the squad got back together with shep (but thats just my wish) :-D
#655
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:41
Getorex
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Marauder Shields...
Can we please have a moment of silence for our dear departed frickin HERO Marauder Shields? He didn't even really know Shepard or his mates but he selflessly and without hesitation sacrificed his life in an attempt to prevent Shepard from having to experience the horrific single ending (yes, the only ending) to ME3.
Damnit, I promised myself I wouldn't tear up but here I am again blubbering like a little girl.
Maruader Shields, we hardly knew ye. May you now be at peace in whatever heaven you...guys...go to when you die.
OK, that's it. I gotta go and blow my nose. Sorry.
Can we please have a moment of silence for our dear departed frickin HERO Marauder Shields? He didn't even really know Shepard or his mates but he selflessly and without hesitation sacrificed his life in an attempt to prevent Shepard from having to experience the horrific single ending (yes, the only ending) to ME3.
Damnit, I promised myself I wouldn't tear up but here I am again blubbering like a little girl.
Maruader Shields, we hardly knew ye. May you now be at peace in whatever heaven you...guys...go to when you die.
OK, that's it. I gotta go and blow my nose. Sorry.
#656
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:41
Ace Kenshader
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Esquin wrote...
**** you.
That isn't a comment. thats nothing. He shows that not only does he not understand our concerns but that he and the whole team have no interest in trying to. I'm not just disappointed. I'm offended. You and your company are a disgrace to gaming. How dare you imply that we are anything less than the majority. We demand closure. Give us the ending we deserve! The ending the mass effect universes deserves!
And people wonder why they consider the fandom and gamers like you to be nothing more then just a bunch of whining ****es who think they own the series when they haven't even lifted a damn finger in building it.
Everybody here is really turning into the Sonic the Hedgehog fandom, and here I thought the Mass Effect fandom had more respect then that.
#657
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:44
Getorex
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The proper ending for MY Shepard was with pretty much most (not necessarily all) my squadmates still alive, my LI Ashley at my side. The future one of rebuilding the galaxy and Shep and Ash becoming the most well-known SPECTRE team in the galaxy. Your mileage may, and should, be allowed to vary.
#658
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:47
DeinonSlayer
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It looks like the devs are opening discourse with the fanbase.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread
Since I'm not able to post there, I wanted to share my suggestion here. If anyone would be willing to post it once there, I would greatly appreciate it.
All I think we really need to change is adding the option to refuse the three choices we're presented with. Instead of choosing one of three self-destructive options, Shepard stands by to watch as the battle plays itself out. Let the fleet win or lose against the Reapers on its own merits. We know Reapers can be killed - we've done it several times by this point in the game - it should be possible to beat them conventionally, if we gathered enough war assets.
Total Defeat: If we didn't do enough to prepare, the fleet is destroyed, Shepard bleeds out, and the Reapers are free to harvest the rest of the galaxy. You see flashbacks of the three people we see now (with the right LI, of course), intermixed with flash-forwards of the Reapers landing in force on other worlds. Cut to credits, and you hear excerpts from Liara's archive warning future cycles - descriptions of the civilizations lost, and her personal assessment of who Shepard was as a person.
Degrees of victory: Gathering enough assets makes your fleet strong enough to beat the Reapers without losing the relays in the process, though at terrible cost. Depending on just how much you prepared, the outcomes branch, here, too:
* Normandy destroyed, Shepard dies from blood loss
* Normandy survives, Shepard dies from blood loss
* Normandy survives, Shepard loses consciousness from blood loss, but is rescued in time. Like with ME2, this "happy ending" would be the hardest to earn, requiring the most effort from the player.
During the ending credits, there could be a "reporter montage" of sorts, showing stills of locations we have been to while a voice-over describes the conditions there, differing based on our actions throughout. This, I think, would go a long way towards providing closure, and could be done even with the current three endings. It would provide a clear picture of how your actions shaped the world. After the credits, there could be a short scene of a memorial for the Normandy and lives lost, a funeral for Shepard, or a brief scene showing Shepard settled down with their love interest.
Even the Stargazer epilogue would still work as-is with the three degrees of victory. Instead of a fading legend of better times, the grandfather would be describing the child's future - that kid would still be able to go out there when he grows up.
About a week ago, myself and a few others started a poll asking what everyone thought of this idea. We've since gathered over 11,000 votes, nearly 70% of which receive it favorably. The new ending option is designed to change as little as possible from what's already there, to limit what we would be asking of the team that has already given us so much.
I would appreciate any consideration the development team would be willing to give to this idea. It's a simple solution meant to satisfy as many people as possible with the least required investment.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread
Since I'm not able to post there, I wanted to share my suggestion here. If anyone would be willing to post it once there, I would greatly appreciate it.
All I think we really need to change is adding the option to refuse the three choices we're presented with. Instead of choosing one of three self-destructive options, Shepard stands by to watch as the battle plays itself out. Let the fleet win or lose against the Reapers on its own merits. We know Reapers can be killed - we've done it several times by this point in the game - it should be possible to beat them conventionally, if we gathered enough war assets.
Total Defeat: If we didn't do enough to prepare, the fleet is destroyed, Shepard bleeds out, and the Reapers are free to harvest the rest of the galaxy. You see flashbacks of the three people we see now (with the right LI, of course), intermixed with flash-forwards of the Reapers landing in force on other worlds. Cut to credits, and you hear excerpts from Liara's archive warning future cycles - descriptions of the civilizations lost, and her personal assessment of who Shepard was as a person.
Degrees of victory: Gathering enough assets makes your fleet strong enough to beat the Reapers without losing the relays in the process, though at terrible cost. Depending on just how much you prepared, the outcomes branch, here, too:
* Normandy destroyed, Shepard dies from blood loss
* Normandy survives, Shepard dies from blood loss
* Normandy survives, Shepard loses consciousness from blood loss, but is rescued in time. Like with ME2, this "happy ending" would be the hardest to earn, requiring the most effort from the player.
During the ending credits, there could be a "reporter montage" of sorts, showing stills of locations we have been to while a voice-over describes the conditions there, differing based on our actions throughout. This, I think, would go a long way towards providing closure, and could be done even with the current three endings. It would provide a clear picture of how your actions shaped the world. After the credits, there could be a short scene of a memorial for the Normandy and lives lost, a funeral for Shepard, or a brief scene showing Shepard settled down with their love interest.
Even the Stargazer epilogue would still work as-is with the three degrees of victory. Instead of a fading legend of better times, the grandfather would be describing the child's future - that kid would still be able to go out there when he grows up.
About a week ago, myself and a few others started a poll asking what everyone thought of this idea. We've since gathered over 11,000 votes, nearly 70% of which receive it favorably. The new ending option is designed to change as little as possible from what's already there, to limit what we would be asking of the team that has already given us so much.
I would appreciate any consideration the development team would be willing to give to this idea. It's a simple solution meant to satisfy as many people as possible with the least required investment.
Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 17 mars 2012 - 09:51 .
#659
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:48
Deflagratio
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tuzem2 wrote...
Can please someone from the ME3 staff explain to us the endings?
Yeah, there may be 16 endings. When you remove the color differences there are approximately 5-6 with minor variations - Earth gets fully destroyed, half destroyed or not destroyed- Shepard always dies unless you get 5000+ EMS where he breathers at the end under some ruble (which seem to be ion Earth as people mentioned the Citadel is not made from concrete). What does this mean=
Also why in order for Shepard to live we had to supposedly kill EDI and the Geth.
When the Mass Relays get destroyed by the Citadel beam, doesn't this also destroy the planet systems (ME2 Arrival DLC)?
Why was Joker running away from Earth? Why was my team on the Normandy after it crashes when they were just with me? Why would they leave me alone to die?
Why was it important for Shepard to die to control/synthesize/destroy the Reapers? To tell us that whatever you do you are part of the cosmic joke and your actions at the end don't matter? Who created the AI kid at the end?
How does creating the synthetic Reapers and having them kill/harvest advanced civilizations to avoid destroying all organics better that destroying all organics? It seems rather cruel, doesn't it? "Instead of killing you immediately we are going to wait until you are able to think and feel and then we'll kill you"?!
What's the aftermath for the MASS effect universe when the MASS relays are destroyed?
What does the "breathing" ending mean´- is Shepard ultimately dead or alive? If alive, why does this only work if you decide to exterminate a whole species?
How do you think we will be willing to replay ME3 (or ME1 and ME2 for that matter) or download more pre-death ME3 DLC's when we know at the end we are still going to die? We have to be masochist to be willing to go through the sadness and depression again to see Shepard die?!
Why?
The ending is not bitter-sweet - it's bitter-sad!
P.S.: Sorry for my awesome grammer - I'm sad, depressed and drunk -- Happy St. Patrick's Day!
I like your post, except for insinuating that Killing Shepard alone ruins any replayability. The terrible, nonsensical ending is what ruins replayability. Honestly, going into Mass Effect 3, I expected Shepard to die, hell, I almost deemed it a necessity.
But if Shepard the person dies, His/Her actions would still live on, which is what I think we were all expecting. Seeing how we impacted the galaxy, we don't get any of that.
The word has been overused since the ending issue has shown up, but closure. It's all about providing players with closure, and Mass Effect 3's ending has none.
Modifié par Deflagratio, 17 mars 2012 - 08:50 .
#660
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:49
hypothead
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Getorex wrote...
Marauder Shields...
Can we please have a moment of silence for our dear departed frickin HERO Marauder Shields? He didn't even really know Shepard or his mates but he selflessly and without hesitation sacrificed his life in an attempt to prevent Shepard from having to experience the horrific single ending (yes, the only ending) to ME3.
Damnit, I promised myself I wouldn't tear up but here I am again blubbering like a little girl.
Maruader Shields, we hardly knew ye. May you now be at peace in whatever heaven you...guys...go to when you die.
OK, that's it. I gotta go and blow my nose. Sorry.
It's ok hes in heaven now warning angels and other heavenly beings about bad endings.
#661
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:50
Getorex
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DeinonSlayer wrote...
It looks like the devs are opening discourse with the fanbase.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread
Since I'm not able to post there, I wanted to share my suggestion here. If anyone would be willing to post it once there, I would greatly appreciate it.
...
I would appreciate any consideration the development team would be willing to give to this idea. It's a simple solution meant to satisfy as many people as possible with the least required investment.
I'd find your ending acceptable. It gives me MY ending (the non-nihilist ending). It also allows for DLC that could fall before OR AFTER the ending.
#662
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:51
morten n86
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i dont like drunk people.......hchadw wrote...
tuzem2 wrote...
Can please someone from the ME3 staff explain to us the endings?
Yeah, there may be 16 endings. When you remove the color differences there are approximately 5-6 with minor variations - Earth gets fully destroyed, half destroyed or not destroyed- Shepard always dies unless you get 5000+ EMS where he breathers at the end under some ruble (which seem to be ion Earth as people mentioned the Citadel is not made from concrete). What does this mean=
Also why in order for Shepard to live we had to supposedly kill EDI and the Geth.
When the Mass Relays get destroyed by the Citadel beam, doesn't this also destroy the planet systems (ME2 Arrival DLC)?
Why was Joker running away from Earth? Why was my team on the Normandy after it crashes when they were just with me? Why would they leave me alone to die?
Why was it important for Shepard to die to control/synthesize/destroy the Reapers? To tell us that whatever you do you are part of the cosmic joke and your actions at the end don't matter? Who created the AI kid at the end?
How does creating the synthetic Reapers and having them kill/harvest advanced civilizations to avoid destroying all organics better that destroying all organics? It seems rather cruel, doesn't it? "Instead of killing you immediately we are going to wait until you are able to think and feel and then we'll kill you"?!
What's the aftermath for the MASS effect universe when the MASS relays are destroyed?
What does the "breathing" ending mean´- is Shepard ultimately dead or alive? If alive, why does this only work if you decide to exterminate a whole species?
How do you think we will be willing to replay ME3 (or ME1 and ME2 for that matter) or download more pre-death ME3 DLC's when we know at the end we are still going to die? We have to be masochist to be willing to go through the sadness and depression again to see Shepard die?!
Why?
The ending is not bitter-sweet - it's bitter-sad!
P.S.: Sorry for my awesome grammer - I'm sad, depressed and drunk -- Happy St. Patrick's Day!
GREAT POST... THATS about all my questions too..... you type pretty good for being drunk.. .Happy St. Patties Day!
But i like you...
WELL SPOKEN
#663
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:51
Getorex
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hypothead wrote...
Getorex wrote...
Marauder Shields...
Can we please have a moment of silence for our dear departed frickin HERO Marauder Shields? He didn't even really know Shepard or his mates but he selflessly and without hesitation sacrificed his life in an attempt to prevent Shepard from having to experience the horrific single ending (yes, the only ending) to ME3.
Damnit, I promised myself I wouldn't tear up but here I am again blubbering like a little girl.
Maruader Shields, we hardly knew ye. May you now be at peace in whatever heaven you...guys...go to when you die.
OK, that's it. I gotta go and blow my nose. Sorry.
It's ok hes in heaven now warning angels and other heavenly beings about bad endings.
Ah jeez...thanks mate. That helps. It really does.
#664
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:53
DeinonSlayer
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Would you be willing to post what I wrote at the thread linked? RaenImrahl gave permission to ask others to post on our behalf there.Getorex wrote...
DeinonSlayer wrote...
It looks like the devs are opening discourse with the fanbase.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread
Since I'm not able to post there, I wanted to share my suggestion here. If anyone would be willing to post it once there, I would greatly appreciate it.
...
I would appreciate any consideration the development team would be willing to give to this idea. It's a simple solution meant to satisfy as many people as possible with the least required investment.
I'd find your ending acceptable. It gives me MY ending (the non-nihilist ending). It also allows for DLC that could fall before OR AFTER the ending.
#665
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:56
Bosum
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Summing up, the game itself is wonderfully made like, but ... complete insanity endings, I agree to sacrifice and stuff, but she absolutely does not bring any explanation itself looks like a nightmare, an illusion. After the ending feeling, this sense of a child whom the promised sweetness, and instead he is given an empty wrapper. Hopefully, the Studio that I respect very much for a long time, will find the compromise.
#666
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 08:57
maddlarkin
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I posted a brief response earlier, but I felt what was said here by Casey Hudson was deserving of a fuller answer so I have taken each paragraph point by point and answered with my feelings in turn, I did separate out the colours of the text, so that Casey Hudson’s comments are in blue, but if that survives the transfer back to the forum remains to be seen.
“There’s been a lot of discussion and debate about the conclusion of Mass Effect 3, so I thought I’d share my perspective with you here. I’ll avoid outright spoilers, but I’d still recommend finishing the game and experiencing it for yourself before reading this.”
As someone who played through the game, I’m not sure I’d agree with this, but you don’t realise how bad it is till you see it in context so I suppose you really do have to play it through to understand the controversy.
“For the last eight years, Mass Effect has been a labor of love for our team; love for the characters we’ve created, for the medium of video games, and for the fans that have supported us. For us and for you, Mass Effect 3 had to live up to a lot of expectations, not only for a great gaming experience, but for a resolution to the countless storylines and decisions you’ve made as a player since the journey began in 2007. So we designed Mass Effect 3 to be a series of endings to key plots and storylines, each culminating in scenes that show you the consequences of your actions. You then carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey.”
A labour of love totally agreed, the sheer effort that went into the codex entries and detail from Mass Effect 1 to make sure that no plot point was unexplained, I particularly liked that ‘Bring Down the Sky’ added an entry to explain why everyone spoke English. But let me draw on the key points here, “a lot to live up to, not only for a great gaming experience but for a resolution” I could see no resolution in that ending beyond everyone dies or galactic civilisation effectively ends, its not a resolution, its simply crushing.
Bringing me to the final point, unless this is all very well planned the ‘indoctrination theory’ presented by some is correct and you have a monumental Ace up your sleeve, the point I’ve placed in Italics “You then carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey.”
The consequences of the journey are made totally irrelevant by the ending presented, my choices and knowledge may be carried with me, but it simply dosen’t matter as the galaxy has been destroyed along with the infrastructure of galactic society
“We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending—to do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way. Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection.”
Okay, a lot has been said about the “bittersweet” nature of the ending, if you can tell me what is sweet about it I would love to know, I simply don’t get it, even if there is an explanation for how the survivors of the galactic fleet and all of the off world colonies and stations don’t starve, bare minimum I kill 15 million people by either blowing up the citadel or flying off with it. And to say “a bittersweet ending – to do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make” surely that contradicts what was said about the game before its release
“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to
some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending
where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things
- it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the
final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who
plays it.”
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2
This was said by yourself on the above website before release… and flies completely in the face of what you’ve said here, as it is now a set ending(s) with one theme not many related to the choices we made.
As for “the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope” they are monumentally clichéd and make absolutely no contextual sense with any of the events that have happened up until this point. Which for a game series which has spent so much time getting everything just right, seems simply bizarre?
“We've had some incredibly positive reactions to Mass Effect 3, from the New York Times declaring it “a gripping, coherent triumph”, to Penny Arcade calling it “an amazing accomplishment”, to emails and tweets from players who have given us the most profound words of appreciation we've ever received.”
Yes we all know that it has received very good reviews from professional reviewers and magazines, although how many reviews had the time before deadline to play the minimum 24+ hours (32 in my case) it took to complete and saw the ending can only be speculated. I’m also sure you have had some very positive feedback and tweets, although I am aware, that many of the more critical tweets have been ignored and deleted no matter how polite and reasonable they might of been. As for the positive emails, I’m sure there are some, judging by the average poll on these forums and the internet at large, around 2-6% of the total emails
“But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories—and these comments are equally valid. Player feedback such as this has always been an essential ingredient in the development of the series.”
I find myself a little insulted by this, although I’m sure that wasn’t the intention. Being dismissed as “some of our most passionate fans” the key word being ‘some’, a minority and a small one at that, by implication. At time of typing this post, the facebook campaign contains some 35,812 members and I’m sure that your media/press department has informed you that you can multiply that figure several times for the true sample size. This combined with the fact that the polls regardless of sample size seem to show percentages in favour at typically under 10% and those in favour of a complete ending remake at 70% or above (90% being the highest I’ve seen).
Also the assertion that they need “more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories” This reads as extremely condescending to your fan base who have complained, it is not in the majority of cases about saying goodbye, we knew this was the end of the trilogy, but rather that the ending we were presented with made no sense within the context it was presented and offered no variation on the choices a player had made in possibly over 200 hours of game play, in face going so far as rendering all of those choices completely moot by destroying all galactic civilisation. As a personal gripe in at least my case, robbing the player of any sense they could win, games are played to be won after all.
For your final point, that “Player feedback” has always been important, I certainly hope this continues to be the case.
“I am extremely proud of what this team has accomplished, from the first art concepts for the Mass Effect universe to the final moments of Mass Effect 3. But we didn't do it on our own. Over the course of the series, Mass Effect has been a shared experience between the development team and our fans—not just a shared experience in playing the games, but in designing and developing them. An outpouring of love for Garrus and Tali led to their inclusion as love interests in Mass Effect 2. A request for deeper RPG systems led to key design changes in Mass Effect 3. Your feedback has always mattered. Mass Effect is collaboration between developers and players, and we continue to listen.”
I’m extremely proud of what they produced as well, for 99% of the game it was the best Mass Effect I had played, with beautiful moments, heart rending tragedy and a real sense of urgency and desperation the Reaper invasion had caused. And then, in the last 10 minutes it descended into complete lunacy, all sense logic, established rules of the series and most importantly hope was thrown out of the window in favour of a un-alterable speech by a star child, who terrifyingly, if the clips of ‘Last Hours’ I’ve seen are to be believed, was based on the character of the Architect from the second Matrix film, a character universally held up as terrible plot design.
I honestly hope that the feedback truly does “matter” to you and the rest of the Bioware team and that this “collaboration” continues, as I fear that a massive out cry of fan anger… sorry I used the wrong word, Customer anger over a product they bought in good faith will be the only thing Mass Effect 3 will be remembered for, I know that much as I loved it, I will have a very hard time replaying it, knowing where the story and in fact the game is going
“So where do we go from here? Throughout the next year, we will support Mass Effect 3 by working on new content. And we’ll keep listening, because your insights and constructive feedback will help determine what that content should be. This is not the last you’ll hear of Commander Shepard.”
Where do we go from here? A very good question, my first suggestion, if your taking constructive feedback? Would be to regain the customers trust while there is still time. I accept you may be executing a carefully laid out marketing and PR damage limitation strategy, but people today are simply too well versed in the media and apparatus of politics not to recognise it. A bit of free media advice, tackle the problem head on, if its part of a planned strategy that’s backfired, say so, if you genuinely thought the ending would please the fans, your customers. Admit you are wrong and move on from there, but continuing to employ well recognised marketing and PR techniques will only further alienate your customers.
I hope this is not the last we hear of Commander Shepard, I truly do, but if his story doesn’t at least end in a way which makes sense, it may be the last of Commander Shepard I buy!
“We look forward to your continued support and involvement as we work together to shape the remaining experiences in the story of the Mass Effect trilogy.”
I hope more than anything you can, I truly do, but my continued involvement is at best precarious at this point
“Thanks for taking this journey with us.”
“Casey Hudson”
Many thanks for reading my response,
Stuart
A fan/customer
“There’s been a lot of discussion and debate about the conclusion of Mass Effect 3, so I thought I’d share my perspective with you here. I’ll avoid outright spoilers, but I’d still recommend finishing the game and experiencing it for yourself before reading this.”
As someone who played through the game, I’m not sure I’d agree with this, but you don’t realise how bad it is till you see it in context so I suppose you really do have to play it through to understand the controversy.
“For the last eight years, Mass Effect has been a labor of love for our team; love for the characters we’ve created, for the medium of video games, and for the fans that have supported us. For us and for you, Mass Effect 3 had to live up to a lot of expectations, not only for a great gaming experience, but for a resolution to the countless storylines and decisions you’ve made as a player since the journey began in 2007. So we designed Mass Effect 3 to be a series of endings to key plots and storylines, each culminating in scenes that show you the consequences of your actions. You then carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey.”
A labour of love totally agreed, the sheer effort that went into the codex entries and detail from Mass Effect 1 to make sure that no plot point was unexplained, I particularly liked that ‘Bring Down the Sky’ added an entry to explain why everyone spoke English. But let me draw on the key points here, “a lot to live up to, not only for a great gaming experience but for a resolution” I could see no resolution in that ending beyond everyone dies or galactic civilisation effectively ends, its not a resolution, its simply crushing.
Bringing me to the final point, unless this is all very well planned the ‘indoctrination theory’ presented by some is correct and you have a monumental Ace up your sleeve, the point I’ve placed in Italics “You then carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey.”
The consequences of the journey are made totally irrelevant by the ending presented, my choices and knowledge may be carried with me, but it simply dosen’t matter as the galaxy has been destroyed along with the infrastructure of galactic society
“We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending—to do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way. Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection.”
Okay, a lot has been said about the “bittersweet” nature of the ending, if you can tell me what is sweet about it I would love to know, I simply don’t get it, even if there is an explanation for how the survivors of the galactic fleet and all of the off world colonies and stations don’t starve, bare minimum I kill 15 million people by either blowing up the citadel or flying off with it. And to say “a bittersweet ending – to do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make” surely that contradicts what was said about the game before its release
“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to
some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending
where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things
- it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the
final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who
plays it.”
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2
This was said by yourself on the above website before release… and flies completely in the face of what you’ve said here, as it is now a set ending(s) with one theme not many related to the choices we made.
As for “the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope” they are monumentally clichéd and make absolutely no contextual sense with any of the events that have happened up until this point. Which for a game series which has spent so much time getting everything just right, seems simply bizarre?
“We've had some incredibly positive reactions to Mass Effect 3, from the New York Times declaring it “a gripping, coherent triumph”, to Penny Arcade calling it “an amazing accomplishment”, to emails and tweets from players who have given us the most profound words of appreciation we've ever received.”
Yes we all know that it has received very good reviews from professional reviewers and magazines, although how many reviews had the time before deadline to play the minimum 24+ hours (32 in my case) it took to complete and saw the ending can only be speculated. I’m also sure you have had some very positive feedback and tweets, although I am aware, that many of the more critical tweets have been ignored and deleted no matter how polite and reasonable they might of been. As for the positive emails, I’m sure there are some, judging by the average poll on these forums and the internet at large, around 2-6% of the total emails
“But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories—and these comments are equally valid. Player feedback such as this has always been an essential ingredient in the development of the series.”
I find myself a little insulted by this, although I’m sure that wasn’t the intention. Being dismissed as “some of our most passionate fans” the key word being ‘some’, a minority and a small one at that, by implication. At time of typing this post, the facebook campaign contains some 35,812 members and I’m sure that your media/press department has informed you that you can multiply that figure several times for the true sample size. This combined with the fact that the polls regardless of sample size seem to show percentages in favour at typically under 10% and those in favour of a complete ending remake at 70% or above (90% being the highest I’ve seen).
Also the assertion that they need “more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories” This reads as extremely condescending to your fan base who have complained, it is not in the majority of cases about saying goodbye, we knew this was the end of the trilogy, but rather that the ending we were presented with made no sense within the context it was presented and offered no variation on the choices a player had made in possibly over 200 hours of game play, in face going so far as rendering all of those choices completely moot by destroying all galactic civilisation. As a personal gripe in at least my case, robbing the player of any sense they could win, games are played to be won after all.
For your final point, that “Player feedback” has always been important, I certainly hope this continues to be the case.
“I am extremely proud of what this team has accomplished, from the first art concepts for the Mass Effect universe to the final moments of Mass Effect 3. But we didn't do it on our own. Over the course of the series, Mass Effect has been a shared experience between the development team and our fans—not just a shared experience in playing the games, but in designing and developing them. An outpouring of love for Garrus and Tali led to their inclusion as love interests in Mass Effect 2. A request for deeper RPG systems led to key design changes in Mass Effect 3. Your feedback has always mattered. Mass Effect is collaboration between developers and players, and we continue to listen.”
I’m extremely proud of what they produced as well, for 99% of the game it was the best Mass Effect I had played, with beautiful moments, heart rending tragedy and a real sense of urgency and desperation the Reaper invasion had caused. And then, in the last 10 minutes it descended into complete lunacy, all sense logic, established rules of the series and most importantly hope was thrown out of the window in favour of a un-alterable speech by a star child, who terrifyingly, if the clips of ‘Last Hours’ I’ve seen are to be believed, was based on the character of the Architect from the second Matrix film, a character universally held up as terrible plot design.
I honestly hope that the feedback truly does “matter” to you and the rest of the Bioware team and that this “collaboration” continues, as I fear that a massive out cry of fan anger… sorry I used the wrong word, Customer anger over a product they bought in good faith will be the only thing Mass Effect 3 will be remembered for, I know that much as I loved it, I will have a very hard time replaying it, knowing where the story and in fact the game is going
“So where do we go from here? Throughout the next year, we will support Mass Effect 3 by working on new content. And we’ll keep listening, because your insights and constructive feedback will help determine what that content should be. This is not the last you’ll hear of Commander Shepard.”
Where do we go from here? A very good question, my first suggestion, if your taking constructive feedback? Would be to regain the customers trust while there is still time. I accept you may be executing a carefully laid out marketing and PR damage limitation strategy, but people today are simply too well versed in the media and apparatus of politics not to recognise it. A bit of free media advice, tackle the problem head on, if its part of a planned strategy that’s backfired, say so, if you genuinely thought the ending would please the fans, your customers. Admit you are wrong and move on from there, but continuing to employ well recognised marketing and PR techniques will only further alienate your customers.
I hope this is not the last we hear of Commander Shepard, I truly do, but if his story doesn’t at least end in a way which makes sense, it may be the last of Commander Shepard I buy!
“We look forward to your continued support and involvement as we work together to shape the remaining experiences in the story of the Mass Effect trilogy.”
I hope more than anything you can, I truly do, but my continued involvement is at best precarious at this point
“Thanks for taking this journey with us.”
“Casey Hudson”
Many thanks for reading my response,
Stuart
A fan/customer
#667
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:00
eoinnx03
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It's just a more warmer diplomatic version of we are listening. Ignoring the fact that on all polls its clearly not a 50:50 argument. It's 90:10, with growing numbers every day.
I'm not buying Bioware products untill they fix this. They can do better than that ending, Mass Effect 3 the game(minus the ending) proves that, let alone nearly every other Bioware title.
I'm boycotting untill they make this right.
From a loyal fan.
I'm not buying Bioware products untill they fix this. They can do better than that ending, Mass Effect 3 the game(minus the ending) proves that, let alone nearly every other Bioware title.
I'm boycotting untill they make this right.
From a loyal fan.
#668
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:01
SnowyKai
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DeinonSlayer wrote...
It looks like the devs are opening discourse with the fanbase.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread
Since I'm not able to post there, I wanted to share my suggestion here. If anyone would be willing to post it once there, I would greatly appreciate it.
All I think we really need to change is adding the option to refuse the three choices we're presented with. Instead of choosing one of three self-destructive options, Shepard stands by to watch as the battle plays itself out. Let the fleet win or lose against the Reapers on its own merits. We know Reapers can be killed - we've done it several times by this point in the game - it should be possible to beat them conventionally, if we gathered enough war assets.
Total Defeat: If we didn't do enough to prepare, the fleet is destroyed, Shepard bleeds out, and the Reapers are free to harvest the rest of the galaxy. You see flashbacks of the three people we see now (with the right LI, of course), intermixed with flash-forwards of the Reapers landing in force on other worlds. Cut to credits, and you hear excerpts from Liara's archive warning future cycles - descriptions of the civilizations lost, and her personal assessment of who Shepard was as a person.
Degrees of victory: Gathering enough assets makes your fleet strong enough to beat the Reapers without losing the relays in the process, though at terrible cost. Depending on just how much you prepared, the outcomes branch, here, too:
* Normandy destroyed, Shepard dies from blood loss
* Normandy survives, Shepard dies from blood loss
* Normandy survives, Shepard loses consciousness from blood loss, but is rescued in time. Like with ME2, this "happy ending" would be the hardest to earn, requiring the most effort from the player.
During the ending credits, there could be a "reporter montage" of sorts, showing stills of locations we have been to while a voice-over describes the conditions there, differing based on our actions throughout. This, I think, would go a long way towards providing closure, and could be done even with the current three endings. It would provide a clear picture of how your actions shaped the world. After the credits, there could be a short scene of a memorial for the Normandy and lives lost, a funeral for Shepard, or a brief scene showing Shepard settled down with their love interest.
Even the Stargazer epilogue would still work as-is with the three degrees of victory. Instead of a fading legend of better times, the grandfather would be describing the child's future - that kid would still be able to go out there when he grows up.
About a week ago, myself and a few others started a poll asking what everyone thought of this idea. We've since gathered over 11,000 votes, nearly 70% of which receive it favorably. The new ending option is designed to change as little as possible from what's already there, to limit what we would be asking of the team that has already given us so much.
I would appreciate any consideration the development team would be willing to give to this idea. It's a simple solution meant to satisfy as many people as possible with the least required investment.
This please.
#669
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:01
NPLMZ
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I really hope that BioWare dosen't give in to all this crap all of you are throwing at them. I LOVED Mass Effect 3 as i have all of the other Mass Effect games. Coming from a real Bioware supporter and fan - you did a really good job with Mass Effect 3.
#670
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:02
Getorex
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DeinonSlayer wrote...
Would you be willing to post what I wrote at the thread linked? RaenImrahl gave permission to ask others to post on our behalf there.Getorex wrote...
DeinonSlayer wrote...
It looks like the devs are opening discourse with the fanbase.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread
Since I'm not able to post there, I wanted to share my suggestion here. If anyone would be willing to post it once there, I would greatly appreciate it.
...
I would appreciate any consideration the development team would be willing to give to this idea. It's a simple solution meant to satisfy as many people as possible with the least required investment.
I'd find your ending acceptable. It gives me MY ending (the non-nihilist ending). It also allows for DLC that could fall before OR AFTER the ending.
I'll do it (assuming I have access...I'm blocked from a few (?))
Ah...I cannot post there either. Someone? Anyone? A user input thread that doesn't allow users? What the hell's up with that?
Modifié par Getorex, 17 mars 2012 - 09:04 .
#671
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:08
Getorex
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At least they are actually taking suggestions. Hopefully they wont simply listen to the "leave it alone with Shepard dead and just fill few holes."
No. That is THEIR ending, not mine. Choices. Choices in which we get various levels of good:bad up to and including a mostly good:slightly bad with Shep alive with LI.
No. That is THEIR ending, not mine. Choices. Choices in which we get various levels of good:bad up to and including a mostly good:slightly bad with Shep alive with LI.
#672
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:13
wright1978
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That was certainly the most woffly way to say precisely nothing.
#673
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:14
DeinonSlayer
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That's where I take issue with Indoctrination Theory. It would be fine for one outcome, but I don't see how they could implement it for all of them. I mean, what are we suggesting? If the player gets all the way to the end, and only if they choose the red door, we're sent back to London and have to play our way through to a new ending? I understand if some are trying to dredge a "deeper meaning" from what we were given, but narratively, that would make less sense than what we have now.Getorex wrote...
At least they are actually taking suggestions. Hopefully they wont simply listen to the "leave it alone with Shepard dead and just fill few holes."
No. That is THEIR ending, not mine. Choices. Choices in which we get various levels of good:bad up to and including a mostly good:slightly bad with Shep alive with LI.
#674
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:22
Getorex
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DeinonSlayer wrote...
That's where I take issue with Indoctrination Theory. It would be fine for one outcome, but I don't see how they could implement it for all of them. I mean, what are we suggesting? If the player gets all the way to the end, and only if they choose the red door, we're sent back to London and have to play our way through to a new ending? I understand if some are trying to dredge a "deeper meaning" from what we were given, but narratively, that would make less sense than what we have now.Getorex wrote...
At least they are actually taking suggestions. Hopefully they wont simply listen to the "leave it alone with Shepard dead and just fill few holes."
No. That is THEIR ending, not mine. Choices. Choices in which we get various levels of good:bad up to and including a mostly good:slightly bad with Shep alive with LI.
I agree, plus as I understand it Shepard is not susceptible to indoctrination anyway and doing this would be a retcon.
Now, I wouldn't mind some variant though so long as Shepard comes to and gets to continue to fight to an ending that is NOT necessarily all filled with his death.
There are several nice suggestions in that thread that spread the choices and outcomes out similar to the good idea above (with more options though). I DO particularly like one idea that we NEVER learn the Reapers true reasons, that it always remain a mystery "beyond our understanding". Thus, no "god-child" explaining crap.
#675
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:23
Greywinter
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I actually like the concept of ME 3's ending, i loved how the story ended and I agree that there had to be a sour note and bittersweet end was the only proper way to bring this epic story to a close, i totally get it, i was expecting nothing else. Great job Bioware!!
However, what I didn't like about ending is how the cutscenes played out. Following are some of things that concerned me and didn't make much sense to me;
1. In last mission i had Tali and Garrus as my squad mates but when i fell to that reaper beam and became unconcious, what happened to my squad mates?
2. How did tali got on normandy (because she came out of normandy on the other planet)?
3. How the hell joker got on normandy and had it up and running in outerspace?
4. And when you trigger the end game video by walking up the path of your choice the first cutscene that comes up shows joker, then anderson and liara? why liara? i romanced tali, it should have been tali. the cutscene shows only these three people in succession so it didnt make sense why liara showed up in that cutscene.
5. Also i would love to see Tali's face on her shoulders, rather than in a frame? I hope bioware actually consider this request and put a face on tali rather than showing it in a frame.
I dont want to change the ending, the concept is great, i just want bioware to fix the cutscenes and put a face real face on tali.
Overall great job Bioware! the game is amazing, its definitely the best in trilogy and no one could have done it better. You guys did it with Baldur's Gate Series, you 've certainly nailed it with Mass Effect series good to see you haven't lost your touch, although i wish Mass Effect series was a bit less streamlined.
However, what I didn't like about ending is how the cutscenes played out. Following are some of things that concerned me and didn't make much sense to me;
1. In last mission i had Tali and Garrus as my squad mates but when i fell to that reaper beam and became unconcious, what happened to my squad mates?
2. How did tali got on normandy (because she came out of normandy on the other planet)?
3. How the hell joker got on normandy and had it up and running in outerspace?
4. And when you trigger the end game video by walking up the path of your choice the first cutscene that comes up shows joker, then anderson and liara? why liara? i romanced tali, it should have been tali. the cutscene shows only these three people in succession so it didnt make sense why liara showed up in that cutscene.
5. Also i would love to see Tali's face on her shoulders, rather than in a frame? I hope bioware actually consider this request and put a face on tali rather than showing it in a frame.
I dont want to change the ending, the concept is great, i just want bioware to fix the cutscenes and put a face real face on tali.
Overall great job Bioware! the game is amazing, its definitely the best in trilogy and no one could have done it better. You guys did it with Baldur's Gate Series, you 've certainly nailed it with Mass Effect series good to see you haven't lost your touch, although i wish Mass Effect series was a bit less streamlined.
Modifié par Greywinter, 17 mars 2012 - 09:43 .
