1907 réponses à ce sujet

[Theodoro]

thedosbox wrote...

MysticBinary82 wrote...

thedosbox wrote...

Those looking for a happy (as in triumphant) ending need to grow up in my opinion.

Having said that, I do think the way the endings were handled was rather poor.  The RPS article did a pretty good summation: http://www.rockpaper...end-of-an-epic/

 
No but in ME there was always a super positive a very bad and a in between outcome that made sense. If you for example did not flew to the collectors base right after the crew was taken you lost all except Dr. Chakwas. If you did not made your squad mates loyal they could die an the suicide mission. But if you did everything well all are staying alive. Something similar would not be that hard for the 3 Part. With heavy loses of cause but your squad could survive. I mean isn't it bittersweet enough that almost all world lay in ruins and a lot of people died? you could even make the Normandy crash and kill some of its crew if you do not have enough war assets but it should be on earth 'cause that is where the Normandy was.

Um, the Reapers were defeated.  You don't count that as positive?

I'm happy Bioware took the adult option of not doing another cliched "hay guys, we beat the crap out of the bad guys, let's have a party" style of ending.

Could they have handled it better?  Absolutely.  But removing the final sacrifice would leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Of course people would have liked an ending with Shepard sacrificing himself/herself for the greater good; but alas, it's the fact that his/her sacrifice is entirely in vain that's bothering most people. Sure, the Reapers are destroyed, but so are the Mass Relays, civilization as we know it, and if Arrival's anything to go by, the worlds with these Mass Relays will also follow. Instead of mourning their commander and humanity's hero's death, Normandy's crew is stranded on some planet, grinning with joy, presumably not thinking about Shepard at all, belittling his sacrifice to the point of worthlessness.

And the fact that the Space Child appears out of nowhere and seems to have infinite control goes against everything that is Mass Effect - a realistic sci-fi with logic to every bit of content. The very same game boasts the feature of choice making throughout its story, which the ending makes completely pointless, as well. It's like another gaming studio took over at the last days of development and put their ending there instead.

Modifié par Theodoro, 18 mars 2012 - 08:53 .

[Nadia]

Hi, I want to say that I just watched those 3 different endings on youtube, I played ME1 and 2 and loved it but not ME3 yet - I couldn't wait to see it (probably couple months - till I'll have time and money to buy and play it) because I've seen such panic among fans and I wondered if it's even worth to play. I know the game is amazing, I've played the demo, but in simple words - I'd prefer to have fun more than get depressed. Mass Effect games are so excellent that they make me care about most of the characters and the outcomes of my Shepard's actions.
From what I've seen from the ending and some other cutscenes Me3 would make me feel a lot emotions throughout the whole game but mostly- sadness.
Now I understand the frustration and I believe that buying this game and playing for many hours might feel not worth the painful dissapointment at the end. I agree that game in order to be good must provoke lots of different emotions, but mostly positive! And at the end players should feel something positive even if the protagonist could die - I think f.ex. DAO handled it quite well - it had many different endings and you really could choose how it ends.
that's all, thanks if anyone read this

Plus - I agree with Theodoro completely.

Modifié par Nadia, 18 mars 2012 - 09:04 .

[cyborgakadjmoose]

Theodoro wrote...
Of course people would have liked an ending with Shepard sacrificing himself/herself for the greater good; but alas, it's the fact that his/her sacrifice is entirely in vain that's bothering most people. Sure, the Reapers are destroyed, but so are the Mass Relays, civilization as we know it, and if Arrival's anything to go by, the worlds with these Mass Relays will also follow. Instead of mourning their commander and humanity's hero's death, Normandy's crew is stranded on some planet, grinning with joy, presumably not thinking about Shepard at all, belittling his sacrifice to the point of worthlessness.

And the fact that the Space Child appears out of nowhere and seems to have infinite control goes against everything that is Mass Effect - a realistic sci-fi with logic to every bit of content. The very same game boasts the feature of choice making throughout its story, which the ending makes completely pointless, as well. It's like another gaming studio took over at the last days of development and put their ending there instead.

THIS.

[SoR82]

As much as i loved this game and the others.... esh however i loved the comment "We wanted it to be memorable" Well done! you really hit the bulls eye with that one XD

[Getorex]

It isn't "just a game" anymore than it was "just $60 flushed down the toilet." I did not get what I pre-ordered. I cannot box up a disk and send it all back for a refund because it is a digital PC download. So I am out $60 plus the cost of the "From the Ashes" DLC which is useless given the defective game that it requires to play. I have un-registered ME3 (and ME2) so it is not like I'm playing it while complaining. I am not playing it and will not be playing it, and will not be downloading DLC, etc, unless I receive the product that was promised and advertised.

So...2 options. Bioware gives me what they advertised and promised (from day 1) or give me and eveyone else who wants it their money back. Simple. Adult. Standard business practice.

[thedosbox]

Getorex wrote...
*SIGH* No it is not "childish".  I either want my money back or a correction.  See, I pre-ordered

Emphasis added to highlight the real problem.  When people stop buying into pre-order hype, they'll avoid issues like this where reality doesn't match up to their expectations (deserved or otherwise).

This isn't the first game where some segment of the customers have been disappointed, yet some people still insist on giving companies money before the product has been released and reviewed.

Stop being a sucker for marketing hype.

Modifié par thedosbox, 18 mars 2012 - 09:15 .

[cipher86]

Getorex wrote...

It isn't "just a game" anymore than it was "just $60 flushed down the toilet." I did not get what I pre-ordered. I cannot box up a disk and send it all back for a refund because it is a digital PC download. So I am out $60 plus the cost of the "From the Ashes" DLC which is useless given the defective game that it requires to play. I have un-registered ME3 (and ME2) so it is not like I'm playing it while complaining. I am not playing it and will not be playing it, and will not be downloading DLC, etc, unless I receive the product that was promised and advertised.

So...2 options. Bioware gives me what they advertised and promised (from day 1) or give me and eveyone else who wants it their money back. Simple. Adult. Standard business practice.

Buyer beware, standard adult consumer business practice.

[Discalceate]

If Bioware think that they can farm out the true conclusion as an additional cost DLC, I hope that the community will show them otherwise.

[Hanabii]

I WON'T buy any PRE-Ending DLC. Because the Ending INSURES any DLC that comes before it is pointless.

Illum? Why should we care what happens to that Bureaucratic namby pamby and by end game obsolete planet of legalized slavery.

Omega? Yeah, that's great, let's get Omega back from Cerberus so Aria can get stranded in the middle of nowhere and starve to death. At least without the DLC you can assume she's with her fleet.

Without a good resolution to the end, without Pre-End DLC that effects the end. What is the point? The Prothian was a good idea. But unless you plan to keep adding DLC squadmates. Nothing pre-non-resolved ending isn't gonna matter.

Let's use a theory here.

Let's say they come out with five DLCs in the next year.

The first four and Pre-Ending.
The fifth finally deals with the end.

I won't buy any of the first four until the fifth is out.
When the ones that deals with the end is out, I'll consider buying the Pre-Ending DLC.

But this isn't like ME3 where people are pre-ordering on faith. If the DLC doesn't deal with out issues then we will know and we will not buy.

Modifié par Hanabii, 18 mars 2012 - 09:18 .

[Getorex]

cipher86 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

It isn't "just a game" anymore than it was "just $60 flushed down the toilet." I did not get what I pre-ordered. I cannot box up a disk and send it all back for a refund because it is a digital PC download. So I am out $60 plus the cost of the "From the Ashes" DLC which is useless given the defective game that it requires to play. I have un-registered ME3 (and ME2) so it is not like I'm playing it while complaining. I am not playing it and will not be playing it, and will not be downloading DLC, etc, unless I receive the product that was promised and advertised.

So...2 options. Bioware gives me what they advertised and promised (from day 1) or give me and eveyone else who wants it their money back. Simple. Adult. Standard business practice.

Buyer beware, standard adult consumer business practice.

Actually, false advertising gets companies in hot water.  There is an abundance of verbatum quotes from the Bioware drones promising one thing but then they end up delivering something altogether different.  All the way up to the day of release of their product they never once corrected their previous false advertising campaign.  They could have saved themselves a lot of pain by coming clean that they would NOT deliver what they had promised.  Simple.  I,and many others, would have canceled our orders and that would be that.  Also, pre-order is not the problem.  Many of those who did NOT pre-order were also surprised by the failure to meet expectations (as advertised).  Pre-order isn't the problem in another way: pre-order or not the digital order cannot be returned for a refund.  There is nothing magical about the pre-order vs the standard date.  No process to take it back and refund the purchase.

[Getorex]

Hah. Amazon.com still has it at 2 stars (user ratings, the only kind that matter and virtually all of them ripping it on the ending) and selling at $43. The price drop to the bargain bin will be historically fast. Another thing Mass Effect 3 will be "memorable for". Nice job Bioware.

[DCoacci]

Oldbones2 wrote...

DCoacci wrote...


Sorry, I missed your replies.

You said a bunch of stuff here.  Most of it is below.

It's Sunday and I've got some time so I thought I would refute your post point by point.

*snip*

I'll try to address your points as best I can:

About Bioware making a new ending:
You're right, I don't have to buy it, but if it turns out to be one of the changes I would like to see, I probably will. However, I was mainly expressing my opinion in that I don't want them to change it. That's all.

About the ending choices:
I was just hoping to avoid the same discussion we've seen a thousand times over around these forums, but I guess that was naive of me. And I was also referring to the choices throughout the entire series, the finale included. Again, as I said, if you give it enough thought, and use your imagination to fill in the blanks, the endings can be quite different from one another. Taken at face value, they don't appear that way, but conceptually they are. Also, Shepard did not die in my ending, and the Reapers are not removed in two of the three options, they are just no longer a threat. We could keep arguing back and forth about this and a bunch of other ending details, but there are plenty of threads that do that already and I'd really like to end that particular discussion here.

About "demanding" the product you were supposed to get:
You got it. Bioware delivered an amazing game and an amazing story. You feel the ending(s) didn't satisfy you, and that's fine. But that is a subjective matter, and doesn't equal a broken promiss.

About commissions and the artist/consumer relationship:
I have done a few, and have had clients occasional ask me to make a change, though this is normally during the WIP phase, not after the end result. But this still goes back to my client/artist argument.

In the end, we, the consumers, have a right to be dissatisfied with a product, but demanding a change to a mass market artistic work (and given that this situation involves the narrative, and not the game itself, it counts as artistic work), based entirely on personal opinion isn't justifiable in my eyes, no matter how many people agree with you. Now, if people had gotten up in arms over something like the face importing bug, which is a basic functionality that is a key selling point of the franchise, that I can get behind. But I can't support a movement that is based purely on personal opinions.

About the "50% approval rating" and the poll results
Again, this is a subjective matter, not an objective one. It just means some liked the ending, others didn't. And given how adamant the anti-ending people seem to be, I wouldn't be surprised if the poll numbers are unfairly skewed in their favor. I'm not saying the pro-ending folks would win out, but the numbers would certainly be more even. But, I guess, this is another matter of opinion. Unless Bioware releases some kind of data chart showing who clicked what and how many times, how many emails they got and how many positive and negative posts there are on the forum (which isn't likely), we can't be certain of the real numbers.

A lot of people hated the boss battles in Deus Ex: Human Revolution (myself included), but nobody started an online movement for it. A lot of people weren't happy that you controlled the Arbiter for half of Halo 2, but nobody started a "Save Master Chief" charity drive. Many games have gotten many criticisms from their fans in the past, but nobody went to the same lengths as they are with ME3 and I feel that is what makes the entire situation so silly. Mass Effect is an amazing series of games, but I don't feel it warrants this kind of fan backlash.

As for Bioware not putting an end to the issue
Have you considered that maybe they are simply not allowed to say anything "official" on the matter, yet? They could be planning on doing exactly what the fans want for all we know, but are prevented from saying so because of their NDAs. Maybe they want to change the ending, but EA won't sign off on it. Maybe Casey has been stuck in a boardroom with EA execs, throwing sh*t at the wall and hoping something sticks. He could also be particularly picky with his team at this point and won't approve anything they come up with. There are many factors that could prevent them from saying anything at this point. The main complaint fans have seems to be that Bioware promissed something and didn't deliver. Obviously, Bioware is a little gun-shy now and don't want to get anyone's hopes up. Give them time.

About Child's Play
So you, and all of those people, would've donated to the charity out of the goodness of your hearts even if you were 100% satisfied by ME3's ending? I have my doubts. You used the chairty just to get attention. Don't claim otherwise.

And for the record: I donated to a number of charities last year, even growing a mustache for Movember to encourage others to donate. All because I wanted to help people in need, not for personal gain. So, thank you. I will enjoy my guilt free day.

[Getorex]

DCoacci wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...

DCoacci wrote...


Sorry, I missed your replies.

You said a bunch of stuff here.  Most of it is below.

It's Sunday and I've got some time so I thought I would refute your post point by point.

*snip*

I'll try to address your points as best I can:

About Bioware making a new ending:
You're right, I don't have to buy it, but if it turns out to be one of the changes I would like to see, I probably will. However, I was mainly expressing my opinion in that I don't want them to change it. That's all.

About the ending choices:
I was just hoping to avoid the same discussion we've seen a thousand times over around these forums, but I guess that was naive of me. And I was also referring to the choices throughout the entire series, the finale included. Again, as I said, if you give it enough thought, and use your imagination to fill in the blanks, the endings can be quite different from one another. Taken at face value, they don't appear that way, but conceptually they are. Also, Shepard did not die in my ending, and the Reapers are not removed in two of the three options, they are just no longer a threat. We could keep arguing back and forth about this and a bunch of other ending details, but there are plenty of threads that do that already and I'd really like to end that particular discussion here.

About "demanding" the product you were supposed to get:
You got it. Bioware delivered an amazing game and an amazing story. You feel the ending(s) didn't satisfy you, and that's fine. But that is a subjective matter, and doesn't equal a broken promiss.

About commissions and the artist/consumer relationship:
I have done a few, and have had clients occasional ask me to make a change, though this is normally during the WIP phase, not after the end result. But this still goes back to my client/artist argument.

In the end, we, the consumers, have a right to be dissatisfied with a product, but demanding a change to a mass market artistic work (and given that this situation involves the narrative, and not the game itself, it counts as artistic work), based entirely on personal opinion isn't justifiable in my eyes, no matter how many people agree with you. Now, if people had gotten up in arms over something like the face importing bug, which is a basic functionality that is a key selling point of the franchise, that I can get behind. But I can't support a movement that is based purely on personal opinions.

About the "50% approval rating" and the poll results
Again, this is a subjective matter, not an objective one. It just means some liked the ending, others didn't. And given how adamant the anti-ending people seem to be, I wouldn't be surprised if the poll numbers are unfairly skewed in their favor. I'm not saying the pro-ending folks would win out, but the numbers would certainly be more even. But, I guess, this is another matter of opinion. Unless Bioware releases some kind of data chart showing who clicked what and how many times, how many emails they got and how many positive and negative posts there are on the forum (which isn't likely), we can't be certain of the real numbers.

A lot of people hated the boss battles in Deus Ex: Human Revolution (myself included), but nobody started an online movement for it. A lot of people weren't happy that you controlled the Arbiter for half of Halo 2, but nobody started a "Save Master Chief" charity drive. Many games have gotten many criticisms from their fans in the past, but nobody went to the same lengths as they are with ME3 and I feel that is what makes the entire situation so silly. Mass Effect is an amazing series of games, but I don't feel it warrants this kind of fan backlash.

As for Bioware not putting an end to the issue
Have you considered that maybe they are simply not allowed to say anything "official" on the matter, yet? They could be planning on doing exactly what the fans want for all we know, but are prevented from saying so because of their NDAs. Maybe they want to change the ending, but EA won't sign off on it. Maybe Casey has been stuck in a boardroom with EA execs, throwing sh*t at the wall and hoping something sticks. He could also be particularly picky with his team at this point and won't approve anything they come up with. There are many factors that could prevent them from saying anything at this point. The main complaint fans have seems to be that Bioware promissed something and didn't deliver. Obviously, Bioware is a little gun-shy now and don't want to get anyone's hopes up. Give them time.

About Child's Play
So you, and all of those people, would've donated to the charity out of the goodness of your hearts even if you were 100% satisfied by ME3's ending? I have my doubts. You used the chairty just to get attention. Don't claim otherwise.

And for the record: I donated to a number of charities last year, even growing a mustache for Movember to encourage others to donate. All because I wanted to help people in need, not for personal gain. So, thank you. I will enjoy my guilt free day.

Your opinion is fine but like a-holes...  All that matters is user ratings and they have TANKED ME3.  The price for the game NEW has dropped from $60 to $43 in a mere week.  That speaks volumes.  The ending did this.  It is a loser and that is an objective fact (hence the price plunge and the crap ratings).

[ShadowHawk141]

Just my two cents on Mr. Hudson's reaction

I've been working for a bigger company here in the Netherlands for a pretty long time now on the commercial strategy department and what Mr. Hudson wrote down here was nothing then a typical expression in dammage controll. More then often companies use "sweeteners" to try and let customers see it their way, that you need product A and for what reason. They try to manipulate the common sence of the customer and it's logic to convinse them of their advertisment. That's what I see happening here in Mr. Hudson's statement.
In his statement I see the many times the customer's needs pass by like how importand your choises have been to the conclusion of the game, trying to convinse the customer's logic that they did do so (while they obviously didn't hence the protesting). One strategy that is golden is to let the customer think that what you do (as a company) is what they (the customers) want. If you get the customer to believe that, then you plan your own path since the customer is already convinsed of your good intensions.

Now I'm not saying that they don't listen and act on that at all, there are limits to how far you can "sweeten" a customer. The Mass Effect series have been and still are very appealing to many customers (me included) but the producers have found themself in a predicament because they didn't do as aspected in general and get that thrown into their face. Trying to make you see it their way is gonna take a lot of convincing, trying to get you back into the programm, to convince you of the fact that your choises and involvement (with quotes like " Thanks for taking this journey with us." ) do matter is a priority. Once you're on their side again they can make plans to solve this problem their way, or at least a way that won't damage their overhead to much.

Does Bioware make games just for money ? maybe, maybe not, I'm sure they love their product and they like to see you love it too, just for the money ? I don't think so, products with a high artistic value needs ppl to stand behind that product or it's credibility would fail.
But in the end it does come down to make a living and succes for the creators and publishers.
Does everyone behind Mass Effect think of customers only to be numbers of income, I don't think so either but still a proffit has to be made.

I think it's importand to be pattient as a customer and steadfast, vague promisses aren't promisses, they can do whatever they want with vague promisses, so don't get your hopes up with statements like "if ppl knew what we have in store for the future the reaction would be different" Seeing is believing, no vague promisses.

Be polite however, they are too. Let them know what you want and hold on to that.

[toastersama5]

Sometimes I wonder if I am the only person, on earth, besides the devs who actually liked the ending

[crazyrabbits]

Getorex wrote...

Your opinion is fine but like a-holes...  All that matters is user ratings and they have TANKED ME3.  The price for the game NEW has dropped from $60 to $43 in a mere week.  That speaks volumes.  The ending did this.  It is a loser and that is an objective fact (hence the price plunge and the crap ratings).

You did nothing to refute his points, and just tried to shift the argument. I should automatically declare him the victor right now.

The only things I know for sure, as of right now:

a) the game has sold close to 2 million units in both the U.S. and U.K. (http://www.vgchartz....kly/40979/USA/  --- http://www.vgchartz....eekly/40979/UK/), making it on track to beat ME2 total sales if it keeps up
 that the critical success of the game does not mean that every media outlet that gave a good score was paid off by EA (that's a strawman argument)
c) that EA has already made its money on the game (the only ones who will get hit are the distributors)
d) that no one has come forward to verify all these mysterious sightings of "row after row of returned ME3 copies" at numerous Gamestops, despite everyone asking for proof.

Shall we continue?

Modifié par crazyrabbits, 18 mars 2012 - 10:20 .

[IS1991]

I understand the mass effect 3 ending! - Its a massive marketing operation to see what people's favourite colour really is - blue, green or red. I'm a red man myself.

[Getorex]

I have contacted EA about refunding those with digital only downloads. I hope to hear a satisfactory answer in the day or so. They cannot avoid refunding for falsely advertised/defective products simply because it didn't ship as a disk in a box.

[EchoBeam]

I loved every minute of ME3 single player and multiplayer, except for the ending. The only thing that makes the ending exciting and interesting, is this "indoctrination theory". I like it because during the sequence, it felt like you didn't have any control over what happened, and everything that did transpire felt otherworldly. I don't understand how Shepard could just accept everything that was occurring. I think I'll be even more disappointed if this theory isn't true.

[IS1991]

They were smart about this waited until they have taken our money before they wreck our experience. Very clever.

I'm not pushing for a refund yet because I want to see if this really is the end or if as some have suggested its a fake ending and shep was in fact indoctrinated or if bioware simply realise the mistake and give us a DLC with vastly improved endings in which our choices throughout the series actually matter. - in big ways not in colour changes or whether or not joker can hok up wit a robot.

[JMA22TB]

The damage has been done. Trust has been lost far more than gained with the ending of this game. The people have spoken with their wallets, their voice, and their ratings of the game.

Time to make it right Bioware. Clock's ticking.

[Indenter]

 

[slimgrin]

So basically we know we'll get more DLC. Hooray.

[SirVincealot]

toastersama5 wrote...

Sometimes I wonder if I am the only person, on earth, besides the devs who actually liked the ending

You're not.

[Moriloke]

Well, MASSIVE SPOILER to continue with my previous point ...
[Different Endings simultaneously]


That was the climax. The scenario itself is okay, if we forget about one thing or two that seems odd.
But... 6 endings, for 3 cutscenes et 3 colors ?
It looks like an first grader's homework that was due for "in 10 minutes"