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Casey Hudson discusses the conclusion of Mass Effect 3


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#1051
Icinix

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Kami102 wrote...

I find it hard to believe that nobody at Bioware stood up and said "Uhh... Guys? Don't you think this ending would be a bit unpopular with the fans?"

But I guess EA just said "Nah, Ship it and get it out of the door. NAO"


I get the feeling a lot of them didn't like it.

I get the feeling a lot of employees have taken issue with where BioWare has been at the last few games.

Unfortunately - people need jobs. When it comes down to it. You can't let morals / opinions get in the way of a meal.

Its just....ME3 was so great. It was so amazing and awesome. It led up to what should have been the greatest climatic moment in gaming history.

When it really mattered, they didn't just drop the ball .... they didn't even show up to the game.

#1052
Fast Jimmy

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"This is not the last you'll hear from Commander Shepherd."

Whatever happened to "Mass Effect 3 will be the end to Shepherd's story?"

As someone who doesn't have online access for my gaming console, this p!sses me off. Even if they offer a "real ending" DLC for free (which I SERIOUSLY doubt they will do), it still means I'm going to need to go to extreme methods to get it downloaded and playable on my machine. For a game I've already paid full price for, that was promised to me that WOULD NOT require online access to have a completed Single Player campaign. Which was already put to lie with the Galaxy at War function, but to make online access mandatory to see a real conclusion is either A) stupidity that they didn't think they would have a negative reaction or B) Bioware has done the final reveal and taken off their mask to show that they are indeed just soulless EA underneath after all of these years.

Let's compare some of the endings that induced a negative reaction amongst fans in recent years, shall we? Fallout 3: everything ended the same, no matter what you did, one line of dialogue difference after a game with 20 million decisions. Dragon Age: 2... ditto.

On the flip side, we have Fallout: New Vegas, and Dragon Age: Origins, which have incredibly deep follow through on the consequences of your actions, multiple endings and a very satisfying conclusion to their narratives, which fans have loved and have gone back to play multiple, multiple times.

How in the WORLD did Bioware look at the Mass Effect series and say "You know what? Let's end it like those first two. Our fans will CERTAINLY enjoy a vague and jumbled ending, right?"

Either your clutching for our pocketbooks or your so out of touch with your fanbase that you didn't suspect that people would want an actual ENDING to a story they've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours submersing themselves in, Bioware. Your pick, its one or the other.

#1053
tvih

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chompipe wrote...

I chose Anderson to be in the council for ME2, when I started ME 3 he wasn't, so much for my choices making a difference. Miranda dies because Udina sold out to cerberus, had Anderson been in the council I'm sure he wouldn't have sold out.


Sure, some decisions might not affect things much... however, it was your decisions or lack thereof that got Miranda killed. For me, she survived. So, choices made a difference there ;)

As for the grand finale, yeah, basically the same stuff no matter what your decisions were, which is a bummer.

#1054
geekeffect

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I'd like to share my thoughts on Casey Hudson's statement, specifically this:

«But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure»

It's time to realize that what is going on in the Mass Effect fan community isn't a simple wave of discontentment. It's a tsunami.

I'll say that again. A tsunami. This reaction is, in a way, testament to the greatness of Mass Effect. There is a huge emotional attachment of the fanbase to this series, to its characters, to its universe. But there is more.

There are valid, rational arguments being raised about the deficiencies of the ending. Nobody can, in good faith, disregard that as simple fan rage or a childish sense of entitlement.

The way I see it - and no matter what the EA PR machine is strategizing right now - BioWare has to do this:

Casey Hudson must face the community. He must release a video statement, look into the camera as if looking to the gamers, and take a stand. There are two alternatives:

Alternative A - Stick with your ending:
You say "this is the ending we envisioned all along, this is our creative vision for this series and we will remain faithful to it. Here's why we think it is a valid ending, sorry that some of you didn't like it, whatever..."
So you defend your vision. And face the consequences.

Or you choose...

Alternative B - Commit to change:
You acknowledge the arguments raised by the community, you gallantly accept to revise the ending, commit to release an alternative extended ending, set a date and go to work.

And then, on "new ending release day", we'll all have a party and drink a few beers and move on with our lives. And start replaying Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 dozens of times like we love to do.

#1055
Icinix

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^^^ Even the IGN poll has overwhelming frustration / disappointment with the ending.

IGN. Tsunami is probably accurate.

#1056
AJarOfFishFood

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So much hate!

You guys realize this is just a video game, right? This has been totally blown out of proportion.
And yeah, yeah. I know you paid for it and spent hours on it, but still, there are bigger problems in the world.

Modifié par AJarOfFishFood, 19 mars 2012 - 12:03 .


#1057
Icinix

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AJarOfFishFood wrote...

So much hate!

You guys realize this is just a video game, right?
And yeah, yeah. I know you paid for it and spent hours on it, but still, there are bigger problems in the world.


Don't mistake disappointment for hate.

Also, there are bigger problems in the world.

Which is why we should totally stop buying games in the first place and spend our money on good causes - in fact - the entire entertainment industry should be shut down and people sent to work in third world countries as volunteer aid workers.

Sports teams should be abolished and gardens preserving our environemnt erected instead of sports stadiums.

We should work from sun up to sun down for a better community to solve all the worlds problems.

:wub: What a wonderful world. Devoid of passion and entertainment - where we are ants and all memebrs of the greens party.

#1058
AJarOfFishFood

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Icinix wrote...

AJarOfFishFood wrote...

So much hate!

You guys realize this is just a video game, right?
And yeah, yeah. I know you paid for it and spent hours on it, but still, there are bigger problems in the world.


Don't mistake disappointment for hate.

Also, there are bigger problems in the world.

Which is why we should totally stop buying games in the first place and spend our money on good causes - in fact - the entire entertainment industry should be shut down and people sent to work in third world countries as volunteer aid workers.

Sports teams should be abolished and gardens preserving our environemnt erected instead of sports stadiums.

We should work from sun up to sun down for a better community to solve all the worlds problems.

:wub: What a wonderful world. Devoid of passion and entertainment - where we are ants and all memebrs of the greens party.


That was more or less what I was thinking.
But seriously, what I am getting at there are other games. instead of brooding around this one, why not try another game series?

Modifié par AJarOfFishFood, 19 mars 2012 - 12:11 .


#1059
Getorex

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AJarOfFishFood wrote...

Icinix wrote...

AJarOfFishFood wrote...

So much hate!

You guys realize this is just a video game, right?
And yeah, yeah. I know you paid for it and spent hours on it, but still, there are bigger problems in the world.


Don't mistake disappointment for hate.

Also, there are bigger problems in the world.

Which is why we should totally stop buying games in the first place and spend our money on good causes - in fact - the entire entertainment industry should be shut down and people sent to work in third world countries as volunteer aid workers.

Sports teams should be abolished and gardens preserving our environemnt erected instead of sports stadiums.

We should work from sun up to sun down for a better community to solve all the worlds problems.

:wub: What a wonderful world. Devoid of passion and entertainment - where we are ants and all memebrs of the greens party.


That was more or less what I was thinking.
But seriously, what I am getting at there are other games. instead of brooding around this one, why not try another game series?


Why is this guy commenting here when there are big world problems to be solved?  WTF?  How many African babies died while the asinine comment at top was typed out?  How many could have been saved if the time spent on that short paragraph had instead been spent feeding a starving baby?!

#1060
nosaints1967

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Bioware please wake up. You didn't need to make only a dark ending to ME3 for art sake. Star Wars is one of the biggest series of all time and in the end it left it's viewers with hope even if the story line carried you through pain to get there. I agree with othe posts that there should have been a paragon and renegade ending. Isn't that what we have been playing for all this time?  Why alllow us to build up choices only to give us none at the end?

#1061
Icinix

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AJarOfFishFood wrote...

Icinix wrote...

AJarOfFishFood wrote...

So much hate!

You guys realize this is just a video game, right?
And yeah, yeah. I know you paid for it and spent hours on it, but still, there are bigger problems in the world.


Don't mistake disappointment for hate.

Also, there are bigger problems in the world.

Which is why we should totally stop buying games in the first place and spend our money on good causes - in fact - the entire entertainment industry should be shut down and people sent to work in third world countries as volunteer aid workers.

Sports teams should be abolished and gardens preserving our environemnt erected instead of sports stadiums.

We should work from sun up to sun down for a better community to solve all the worlds problems.

:wub: What a wonderful world. Devoid of passion and entertainment - where we are ants and all memebrs of the greens party.


That was more or less what I was thinking.
But seriously, what I am getting at there are other games. instead of brooding around this one, why not try another game series?


From my personal opinion - because I want gaming to be taken seriously.

Right now you're probably going "LOL WUT?" but thats kind of my point.

As it stands game companies have pretty much a free pass to do whatever they want in the gaming space and get away with it. They can release buggy games without fear of reprisal, they can force a software package on players, they can favour exclusive reviewers and even make exclusive DLC for their favoured retailers, they can even release a game with a terrible ending and think they can get away with it.

Gaming is a multi-billion dollar industry. A global phenomena. Right now, its sitting in a void between being a true entertainment art form that is aimed at the consumers, and a greedy money making mass production factory.

I want it to be the Entertainment Art renaissance of my generations time.

If you're still laughing it ony re-inforces my point.

The CEO of EA is wrong about the future of the gaming industry. He can call it whatever he wants, but its gouging the core right out of the gaming world. Activision and EA are stiffling the evolution of the gaming world. Developers like BioWare were fine before EA gobbled them up. Westwood was fine. Origin was fine. Bullfrog was fine. If they rise and fall in the industry, they rise and fall. But they were creating games that were unique and passionate and gave a damn about the people who bought them. That passion and uniqueness is dying beneath wave after wave of DLC, awful marketing campaigns and games rushed to deadlines.

This to me is more than just about the endings failing the Mass Effect trilogy in every way - but its about being the catalyst (some pun intended) for showing everything that is failing in the gaming industry.

And that is why I won't shut my god damn mouth about it.

#1062
AJarOfFishFood

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Why is this guy commenting here when there are big world problems to be solved?  WTF?  How many African babies died while the asinine comment at top was typed out?  How many could have been saved if the time spent on that short paragraph had instead been spent feeding a starving baby?!


How many babies probably died while I typed it out? Probably zero. it only took me about 20 seconds.

And perhaps I worded my intial statement wrong. Instead of saying "there are bigger problems," I think "there are other sources of entertainment," would've been more accurate. 

Modifié par AJarOfFishFood, 19 mars 2012 - 12:25 .


#1063
Sharrack

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Shepards death being mandatory feels wrong. It was impossible in 1 and almost needed to be your goal from the begining in 2. The motto always was "Against all odds".

And what agonizing decisions is Casey talking about? Only one i remember as agonizing is if lives should be sacrificed to safe the council and even that one weights less heavy after actually hearing how many people are aboard the Destiny Ascension. Most decisions i made because of who my Shepard was, there wasn't really much agonizing just: "That's the only way it can be done!". And if you play Renegade there isn't probably even one decision which is even remotely agonizing to your Shepard.

Also the Ending doesn't offer any hope with all the destruction caused without giving us any of what happens after.There's no bittersweet. there is only bitter.

And while ME3 itself offers an ending to most of the open plotlines the ending weakens, invalidates or even reverts this closure into its opposite and just shows us that choice is worthless.

#1064
Edje Edgar

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AJarOfFishFood wrote...

So much hate!

You guys realize this is just a video game, right? This has been totally blown out of proportion.
And yeah, yeah. I know you paid for it and spent hours on it, but still, there are bigger problems in the world.


"It's just a shirt"
"It's just a car"
"It's just a dog"

It's not the object that matters, it's what they mean to us. The fact that you only see the surface, "the stuff", says more about you then it does about us.

We get angry because of an injustice, not just injustice against our wallets, but injustice against our imagination. Mass Effect was an idea, a feeling, one that was shared by all who played it. It was taken from us and destroyed. Bioware might have built the sandcastle, but it's the players that brought it to life. If they choose to destroy it, we too have the right to choose to defend it! After all, it's as much part of our imagination as it is of theirs.

Some people spend their waking hours working for a bigger car, a better tv or fancy clothes. I spend my time defending the concepts of justice and beauty. They apply to everything, if emotions are just and beautifull they too deserve to be defended. Judge me all you want, I face history with confidence.

Modifié par Edje Edgar, 19 mars 2012 - 12:20 .


#1065
tvih

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AJarOfFishFood wrote...
But seriously, what I am getting at there are other games. instead of brooding around this one, why not try another game series?

Though I'm not as bothered about the ending as some others... the problem is, there isn't another equally good game series story-wise that I've seen, at least for my tastes. When I got around the clunkiness of Mass Effect 1's gameplay and got into the story... well, let's just say no game ever had gripped me like that. ME2 felt better as game (no inventory hassle, better skill system, etc), slightly less gripping story-wise but still excellent. ME3 was pretty much the same gameplay - except I could no longer use Pull to loot things, what a shame! - and story was good except for the weak stuff with the Catalyst at the end.

#1066
Black-hawke-5

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After thinking about the ending for a while i am starting to wonder if this is what bioware was planning on all along, maybe they want the fans to decide how mass effect 3 ends. This is a game focused on PLAYER choice and how the decisions you make affect the whole game. It would than make sense that bioware wants the players to think up ideas on how the trilogy should end. food for thought :-)

#1067
AJarOfFishFood

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From my personal opinion - because I want gaming to be taken seriously.

Right now you're probably going "LOL WUT?" but thats kind of my point.

As it stands game companies have pretty much a free pass to do whatever they want in the gaming space and get away with it. They can release buggy games without fear of reprisal, they can force a software package on players, they can favour exclusive reviewers and even make exclusive DLC for their favoured retailers, they can even release a game with a terrible ending and think they can get away with it.

Gaming is a multi-billion dollar industry. A global phenomena. Right now, its sitting in a void between being a true entertainment art form that is aimed at the consumers, and a greedy money making mass production factory.

I want it to be the Entertainment Art renaissance of my generations time.

If you're still laughing it ony re-inforces my point.

The CEO of EA is wrong about the future of the gaming industry. He can call it whatever he wants, but its gouging the core right out of the gaming world. Activision and EA are stiffling the evolution of the gaming world. Developers like BioWare were fine before EA gobbled them up. Westwood was fine. Origin was fine. Bullfrog was fine. If they rise and fall in the industry, they rise and fall. But they were creating games that were unique and passionate and gave a damn about the people who bought them. That passion and uniqueness is dying beneath wave after wave of DLC, awful marketing campaigns and games rushed to deadlines.

This to me is more than just about the endings failing the Mass Effect trilogy in every way - but its about being the catalyst (some pun intended) for showing everything that is failing in the gaming industry.

And that is why I won't shut my god damn mouth about it.


No, no. I'm not laughing. I see your point, and I agree with you somewhat. EA has been responsible to several games turned bad now. But I suppose my stance has just generated from me being fairly empathetic about things in general. Yeah, I understand people care about gaming more than me, I just don't feel about it the same way myself.

Modifié par AJarOfFishFood, 19 mars 2012 - 12:31 .


#1068
omegasama

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AJarOfFishFood wrote...


Why is this guy commenting here when there are big world problems to be solved?  WTF?  How many African babies died while the asinine comment at top was typed out?  How many could have been saved if the time spent on that short paragraph had instead been spent feeding a starving baby?!


How many babies probably died while I typed it out? Probably zero. it only took me about 20 seconds.

And perhaps I worded my intial statement wrong. Instead of saying "there are bigger problems," I think "there are other sources of entertainment," would've been more accurate. 


So you have no issues with it? Good we get that, but we do. If you want to go find other sources of entertainment, then go do so. The rest of us will stay here and word our disapointment.

#1069
AJarOfFishFood

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 So you have no issues with it? Good we get that, but we do. If you want to go find other sources of entertainment, then go do so. The rest of us will stay here and word our disapointment.


K, have fun. :)

Modifié par AJarOfFishFood, 19 mars 2012 - 12:29 .


#1070
weedyfun

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wasted my time reading that, actually..

but it's good to know that you guys are looking at our feedback and whatnot..

Modifié par weedyfun, 19 mars 2012 - 12:43 .


#1071
Getorex

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You know, the minority,the 1% that like the false advertising ending of this series often call it the "adult ending" because, well, it sucked and Shepard dies along with everyone else (best case...they ALL die, just not immediately). I was thinking...in ALL of human history I cannot think of a single case of an "adult ending" to gain anything worthwhile in a similar vein.

Hell, let's go with "modern" history shall we? US revolutionary war. A number of heroes literally signed their own death warrants by placing their names on the Declaration of Independence. THE world's uncontested superpower at the time, Britain, had every signatory on its short list for execution for treason. Surely they died tragically to secure the win? Surely they ended in adult fashion, all dead? Nope, not a single one swung from a rope. Not a one. OK, how about the military side? General George Washington, heart and soul of the rebellion, beloved and trusted. THE lynchpin for the colonist's side. THE leader at the tippy top. THE single person who was key to victory or defeat. Surely HE had the decency to die tragically, along with MOST of the rebels and colonists backing them to secure independence from tyranny? Surely. Ah hell, no he didn't. Not a single solitary lynchpin key figure who was at the core of a victory, upon who's shoulders lay the difference between victory or defeat did the adult thing and died tragically. That damn childish Washington went on to serve 2 terms as President and then, heroically AGAIN, refused to allow the people to anoint him King or, at the very least, President for Life. Bastard refused and had the audacity to die of old age! What a childish ending!

Ok, Ok...how about something bigger...hmmmm...WWII. There we go, HUGE fight between "good" and "evil". Darkness and light. Democracy and freedom™ vs dictatorship and death. Let's see, the good guys ultimately won after a long bloody fight so they MUST have had an adult ending by having MOST of the Allies' people dying, most of the soldiers dying, but most of all, the LEADERS and KEY persons in charge of gaining victory had to die. DAMNIT! Not a single one of them were adults and DIED. Hell's bells, the allies turned out pretty well, all told. Yeah, many many thousands died but not a single one of those deaths was a key figure upon who's shoulders victory depended (and required their death). Not a one. ****. Are there NO adult endings in all the great struggles in history? Must they ALL end without tragedy at their core? Oh wait, there are those who were key figures fighting tooth-and-nail to the ultimate degree to secure their dream and victory...they were ALL the leaders of the LOSERS.

There you have it. The only adults in all of human history of conflict are the losers who have the decency to do MOST of the dying and who's leader, lynchpin, key to any possible victory actually is adult enough to die tragically. Let's see...Hitler shot his brains out and Mussolini was hung by his own angry people.

Hmmm. Let's go more modern. Ho Chi Minh of Vietnam. Little guy fighting the big guy (France) and then later the HUGE guy (USA, one of two world superpowers). Hopeless fight against impossible odds. They HAD to lose. HAD to...but wait, they WON. They fought for YEARS and struggled for YEARS all under the guidance and inspiration of a key lynchpin named Ho Chi Minh. They won...surely Ho Chi Minh, under the circumstances, had to die a heroic and tragic death to secure this adult ending? No. He survived quite nicely thank you, and so did virtually all his generals and key military leaders (the lynchpins).

OK, how about India. Another country backwater fighting against THE world superpower Britain. Led primarily by a diminuitive little skinny geeky guy named Gandhi. YEARS of fighting and struggle and death MUST have ended in an adult fashion with Gandhi tragically killed but independence won (though with most of the Indian population dead too!). CRAP! Again? Another childish ending? Are you SERIOUS?! Gandhi and MOST Indians lived to enjoy the victory? Not a single solitary person who was at the heart of the fight, a major key player, was adult enough to die heroically and tragically?

I look and look and all I see is an archetype of an "adult" ending but, in fact, that ending never happens and is, therefore, not really "adult" because life itself IS adult as it is.

Now, this whole post is pretty extreme, I admit, given we are talking about a (now dead) game. What I am going against here however is the ridiculous-on-its-face nonsense that the "adult" ending is one where the hero/key/lynchpin who is key to a "good" ending must die tragically and heroically. Never in all of history has this been the case. What you refer to as adult is the ending seen by the LOSERS. Therefore, the ending of ME3 in its 3 colors is actually just 3 ways to lose the game. All stick, no carrot. The game is unwinnable (ala "War Games"...the only way to win is not to play at all). So THERE you have the adult thing. Don't play the game at all, don't spend money on it (spend it on feeding African starving babies). Is that what Bioware is telling us?

#1072
Alethir

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The ending was awesome. I'm guessing I got the "best" ending as I had Galactic Readiness at 100% and the readiness bar itself was full. I ended up going with the Renegade choice and I'm fully satisfied with the outcome. We knew it was never going to be hunky dorey and tough choices had to be made. I've honestly had the greatest journey with these games I've ever had in my 20+ years of gaming. Kudos to you guys at Bioware! I honestly think with time more people will understand what you guys were going for. I won't say no to more content by all means, but changing the ending would just be stupid. I'd rather see DLC that expanded certain areas or just new DLC altogether.

#1073
Getorex

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tvih wrote...

AJarOfFishFood wrote...
But seriously, what I am getting at there are other games. instead of brooding around this one, why not try another game series?

Though I'm not as bothered about the ending as some others... the problem is, there isn't another equally good game series story-wise that I've seen, at least for my tastes. When I got around the clunkiness of Mass Effect 1's gameplay and got into the story... well, let's just say no game ever had gripped me like that. ME2 felt better as game (no inventory hassle, better skill system, etc), slightly less gripping story-wise but still excellent. ME3 was pretty much the same gameplay - except I could no longer use Pull to loot things, what a shame! - and story was good except for the weak stuff with the Catalyst at the end.


I will find another game to occupy my spare time.  Definitely (it wont be an EA or Bioware title, of that I'm sure).  The fact remains, however, that they lied to me to get me to literally throw $60 into the trash.  THAT pisses me off.  I cannot afford to go around in regular fashion tossing $60 here $70 there into the trash.  I am willing to spend that money on entertainment, sure, but I full well expect to get what I pay for and for them to provide me what they advertise.  That way, my money is not "wasted".  I don't want to make them rich so they can laugh up their sleeves and mutter "sucker".  That IS what they have done here.

#1074
Getorex

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Alethir wrote...

The ending was awesome. I'm guessing I got the "best" ending as I had Galactic Readiness at 100% and the readiness bar itself was full. I ended up going with the Renegade choice and I'm fully satisfied with the outcome. We knew it was never going to be hunky dorey and tough choices had to be made. I've honestly had the greatest journey with these games I've ever had in my 20+ years of gaming. Kudos to you guys at Bioware! I honestly think with time more people will understand what you guys were going for. I won't say no to more content by all means, but changing the ending would just be stupid. I'd rather see DLC that expanded certain areas or just new DLC altogether.


Good for you.  A member of the 1%.

#1075
Dolphin FFetus

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Black-hawke-5 wrote...

After thinking about the ending for a while i am starting to wonder if this is what bioware was planning on all along, maybe they want the fans to decide how mass effect 3 ends. This is a game focused on PLAYER choice and how the decisions you make affect the whole game. It would than make sense that bioware wants the players to think up ideas on how the trilogy should end. food for thought :-)


They could have saved a ton of money just letting Mass Effect 3 be the character creation menu and then we pick our class, game starts and ends. That way Bioware wouldn't step on any toes with other people's interpretations of characters and you could literally make YOUR OWN ADVENTURE.

Disapointed that your choice in ME2 made no difference? Well, in this special "in your mind" edition of ME3 it made a whole world of difference!!

Maybe bioware is on to something with this "LOTS OF SPECULATION!!!!" model. From now on all your bioware games are repackaged, 60$ bricks with cover art..but you see..that's the whole genius behind it. You can never have your hype fail or feel like the game doesn't live up your wildest dreams. Maybe Mac Walters is the Andy Warhol of video games..oh my god..:o

Modifié par Dolphin FFetus, 19 mars 2012 - 12:52 .