974 réponses à ce sujet

[Linus108]

http://www.gamefront...ns-are-right/2/

This explains everything that is wrong with the endings. I know they are looking more for ideas to fix it. But this explains the core reasons the endings fail (which could help them figure out how to make it better)

[Zix13]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Guys, this is an ongoing dialogue. Casey's post is not the final definitive answer to your concerns. This is a collaboration.

In order to be successful in this, I need you to help me gathering feedback and tell us what you want to see. I understand that people are still feeling emotionally raw or untrusting, and I'm not saying it's not valid to feel that way. However, if you want to see your feedback implemented, this needs to become constructive and rational.

Complaining more isn't going to get you what you want. Tell us what you need. Make polls, collect your thoughts. Chris and I are gathering this information and the developers are listening.

This is a partnership. Let's have hope and make your voice heard - that includes positive feedback too (if you like something we're doing, tell us so we know to keep it up!).

Look. It's simple and obvious what people want. Everything after Harby beam or at least after IM convo changed to make sense and match the themes of the ME universe. What people want is either a) an overhauled ending or indoctrination theory which allows the addition of content to the end without overhauling the whole godchild bit.
Make it dlc. The few who like the endings as they are now don't have to buy it. And you make money. Win- Win. 

[rorako]

[quote]yoshibb wrote...

[quote]Jessica Merizan wrote...

This is not a constructive response guys. Be specific in your needs and I'll pass that to the team.[/quote]
[/quote]

This thread outlines the majority of our concerns and also includes a number of articles to our point:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9851623

Also, I think this article from gamefront best outlines what we believe is wrong:
http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/
[/quote]

I'm also going to mimic her link:

http://www.gamefront...ns-are-right/4/

That gamefront article is very well written and goes into detail on what we dislike about the game's ending.  I now it's not a suggestion on how to fix it, but perhaps by understanding what we dislike about it...

In my opoinion, the fans shouldn't write the ending for you.  Yeah, you should know our wants, but ultimatly we'd like the writers to give us a fitting ending to the story.  It's part of the love of video games, not really knowing what's goign to happen, but knowing the direction.

[Stalker700]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Guys, this is an ongoing dialogue. Casey's post is not the final definitive answer to your concerns. This is a collaboration.

In order to be successful in this, I need you to help me gathering feedback and tell us what you want to see. I understand that people are still feeling emotionally raw or untrusting, and I'm not saying it's not valid to feel that way. However, if you want to see your feedback implemented, this needs to become constructive and rational.

Complaining more isn't going to get you what you want. Tell us what you need. Make polls, collect your thoughts. Chris and I are gathering this information and the developers are listening.

This is a partnership. Let's have hope and make your voice heard - that includes positive feedback too (if you like something we're doing, tell us so we know to keep it up!).

We want endings that make sense and continue the high level of storytelling we have come to expect. I want to actually see rather than imagine the consequences of my choices and i also want there to be a larger spectrum in which the story can end. Everything from disaster to a relatively hopeful/happy ending.

[v0rt3x22]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Guys, this is an ongoing dialogue. Casey's post is not the final definitive answer to your concerns. This is a collaboration.

In order to be successful in this, I need you to help me gathering feedback and tell us what you want to see. I understand that people are still feeling emotionally raw or untrusting, and I'm not saying it's not valid to feel that way. However, if you want to see your feedback implemented, this needs to become constructive and rational.

Complaining more isn't going to get you what you want. Tell us what you need. Make polls, collect your thoughts. Chris and I are gathering this information and the developers are listening.

This is a partnership. Let's have hope and make your voice heard - that includes positive feedback too (if you like something we're doing, tell us so we know to keep it up!).

I suggest to post your ideas here:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10093991/1

Otherwise feel free to open your own.

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 17 mars 2012 - 02:50 .

[Therefore_I_Am]

WazTheMagnificent wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...

This is not a constructive response guys. Be specific in your needs and I'll pass that to the team.

There's plenty of things I'd like to change, but one really stands out: the star child. Just get rid of him, please. That whole sequence is an embarassment. Sorry Dev team, but you are not Stanley Kubrick. It takes a certain kind of subtelty to pull that kind of thing off, and Mass Effect has never had it. Not to mention he makes ME1 seem like a pointless story.

I don't care that the ending is "tragic" I really don't. I'd just like Shepard to act in character in his/her final moments. Give me that, and a few endings that aren't just pallette swaps, and that'll be enough.

This. Definitley This. Scrap Casper the friendly ghost, please. Or if you can't already, change his dialogue to something that makes some sense... That Dark Energy reason made much more sense, for example.

[Sijba]

Jessica,

All I ask is that we have a chance at a happy ending. Not everything has to be butterflies, rainbows, and unicorns but it would be great to at least get a hint that Shepard can end his or her story alive and with the people he/she cares about.

Real life is hard enough, video games should be escapism.

[NorthStrong]

So the answer we received effectively paralleled the ending that is the source of the conflict.

Both were ultimately unsatisfying and left the fans with feelings of discontent and anger at the lack of proper closure.

If the game wasn't so damn amazing for the rest of the experience, the ending wouldn't be so disheartening. The sad thing is, and I wish they'd just recognize, that the ending is enough to sour the rest of the game for many of us.

I think I might be done caring.... or getting very close anyways.

[Dr. Doctor]

All I really want is:

- An explanation for why Joker was flying through the Charon Relay with squadmates who were fighting with me on the way to the Citadel beam. Also what's so important about the Eden planet?

- Some sort of epilogue other than Grandpa and the Kid. What happens to the races of the galaxy? Are they all stuck in the Sol system? Do they go home using FTL? Just having "Maybe you'll go to the stars someday" doesn't really offer any closure.

- A patch that takes the ME2 LI's into account for Shepard's flashback. If I romanced Miranda, Jack, Thane, Garrus, etc I'd like to see them instead of Liara in the final flashback.

- Some recognition for what Shepard has accomplished in game. For instance, the Catalyst says that Synthetics and Organics can never coexist if you created a peace between the Quarians and Geth or destroyed either race I'd like the option for Shepard to bring that fact up.

[AzaZeLgaming]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

In order to be successful in this, I need you to help me gathering feedback and tell us what you want to see ... However, if you want to see your feedback implemented, this needs to become constructive and rational.

How about those promised 16 different endings? More importantly, BW staff should be contacting the Voice Actors asap if they wanna redeem themselves from this mess.

Modifié par AzaZeLgaming, 17 mars 2012 - 02:52 .

[VonVerrikan]

And an actual -good- ending. How hard would it be to show your shepard surviving only to climb from the rubble and be embraced by your LI? You don't need to even hire any voice actors to fix the ending, really, you just need to show more than you are now.

Give me a good ending, to show that you actually care that I did every, single, possible thing in this game to attain a good ending. You had me promise garrus I'd come back to him? LET ME.

[Reign Tsumiraki]

GoblinSapper wrote...

Stop blowing your own horn. You go to a hostile audience and tell them how great you are?

This is pretty simple. Fix this mess or I take my business elsewhere.

^This. 

[Tietj]

Too much hostility in this thread which is about the developers taking the time to listen to us! This is all we can ask for.

In any event, someone already said what I'd like to say so I will copy and paste. " Just give us an ending where we live, our LI's live, and the universe survives to rebuild, and I think everyone would be happier." I'm not asking for a Disney ending (i wouldn't complain though) but enough sacrifices have already been made. Families of characters we know are dead, Mordin, Thane, Legion... Since when did a main character have to die to make something meaningful?

And Chris, Jarrett, and Jessica, thank you for listening!

[ArcanistLibram]

imooumoo wrote...
"
Real quick. Remember DA:O? In that game, you can (Spoilers) Die.
HOWEVER, the difference between this ending and that is that DA:O had
many cinematic's, recorded dialogue, and a slideshow of the effects the
Grey Warden had on many a lives.
That is what I assume the fan's are
TRYING to say, at the very least, what I am trying to say. You have
done it before, and we loved it! It had closure. That is the type of
ending we wanted. A bittersweet, or just plane sad ending, but at the
very least, a show of the effects that we had on the world during and
after the event's of our death. Dragon Age Origins had it right, that is
all we ask you to do.

"

What makes the Ultimate Sacrifice so poignant is that the Warden can choose to die. It only happens because the Warden looks at the alternatives and decide they're unacceptable. That's good stuff.

Mass Effect 3, on the other hand, imposes suicide and the total annihilation of galactic civilization upon Shepard. There is no alternative. That's just frustrating to players. Mass Effect 3 is a game that players cannot win. It's just varying degrees of losing.

[Kastien]

This. Is. Not. An. Answer.

This is more PR spin saying "Hi! We're Bioware, and we love Shepard too! Get ready for some alternate appearance DLC and some missions that take place in the middle of the story!"

Pretending like they're listening to our concerns about how absolutely awful and absurd the RBG ending was from this response alone is like saying that being punched in the face is good, because any attention is good attention.

I'd rather live with the "We're listening but not ready to respond yet" answer for awhile than listen to people pretend like being told "Hey guys, this took a lot of work, and we aren't done milking you yet, but we aren't going to actually tell you anything" is any kind of acceptable response.

[dreaming_raithe]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

This is not a constructive response guys. Be specific in your needs and I'll pass that to the team.

We shouldn't have to be specific. We've spent the last 10 days being specific, and we were told that entire time our feedback was being heard. If we have to be specific now, that means our feedback wasn't heard--or if it was, it wasn't appreciated. We were misled again, just like we were about the nature of the game's endings.

But even though I'm seething with anger right now, I'd still try to find my initial post when I first came here, giving you what I can of my thoughts at length. But your forum doesn't allow me to view my posting history in any capacity. And I can't bear to bring all that up again and try to make it intelligent. You should have already been listening. You told us you were.

So, the Gamefront article (http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/) is the best you're going to get. It doesn't cover all the problems, but if you fix these, you'd have an ending worthy of your trilogy.

[CRISIS1717]

Feedback, an excerpt from my blog post:

The ending/s, I can forgive everything but this. I played through the game and thought finally! Finally I am going to find out the amazing story behind the Reapers and why they harvest people, ever since Sovereign and even Harbinger my curiosity and interest has escalated. Then we find out they harvest organic life to protect it? really? really? I thought the Reapers were supposed to be intelligent but their solution to eliminating conflict is to create the biggest goddamn conflict imaginable and eliminate every thing? seriously wow...

Then we get absolutely no epilogue on what happened after, to the races or your team, and also there’s no explanation about how you choices affected anything after, this is the conclusion of Shepards story right? Then where is the conclusion? except for a brief cutscene and a text box which still tells us nothing except “you got rid of the Reapers, good job! buy DLC!”

You know truthfully I didn't find the synthesis ending (the best ending apparently) too bleak, I fully expected Shepard to die but I expected the catalyst being so unique and able to direct the crucibles power that it could only be an organic which would be the catalyst. To save the universe it would be necessary to pay that ultimate price of self-sacrifice and the Reapers would once and for all be destroyed. So a mixture of the synthesis ending and the destroy the reaper ending, and then maybe after show the survivors returning to normal life and what happened to your team and maybe a baby Shep on the way if you romanced someone, oh and another statue obviously, this is Shepard saviour of the goddamn universe we are talking about.

Sadly it wasn’t the case and the best ending was sacrifice yourself to turn everyone into walking circuit boards and suddenly organics and synthetics will stop seeing each other differently and be the same group... yup, because it’s not like organics fight organics or synthetics fight synthetics...sigh...

Modifié par CRISIS1717, 17 mars 2012 - 02:53 .

[AgenTBC]

What I would say is the following:

Leaving an ending up for speculation is fine.  But it has to be speculation within a context of closure!  The problem with the endings is that we don't know anything for certain.  We don't know what happened to the quarians and geth.  We don't know what happens to the krogan and the genophage.  We don't know whether all the turians starve to death.  We don't know if the quarians all starve to death.  We don't know if your crewmembers starve to death.  We don't know if the StarKid on the Citadel was telling the truth or lying.  We don't know if he was a Reaper trick or legitimate.  We don't know if you actually killed EDI with the destroy ending.  

Every single thing is open for speculation.  And if we have to speculate about everything, it means that nothing we did mattered.  Nothing.

Consider:  The game could have ended with Hackett ordering the fleets to jump to Earth and we would be in exactly the same position.  We wouldn't know who lives or dies, we wouldn't know if the Reapers win or lose, we wouldn't know if Shepard is victorious or indoctrinated, and so on and so on. If you can cut the last half hour of the game and not lose anything (save the destruction of the mass relays) it means you didn't provide anything with the ending.

So that's what I think the takeaway you should have is:  If you leave *everything* open to speculation, it leaves people with the feeling that nothing they did mattered because they get no closure on anything.  You need to leave the door open to speculation within a context of answers and closure.  

[Everwarden]

GoblinSapper wrote...
Stop blowing your own horn. You go to a hostile audience and tell them how great you are?

That's what they did with Dragon Age 2. 

On the bright side, the hatred of Dragon Age 2 was nothing compared to how pissed off people are about Mass Effect 3, so they might have to eat a bit of humble pie when they see their sales start taking a severe hit. 

[Gyspy Jive]

Slidell505 wrote...

We didn't know this, because there wasn't a message at the end of the game saying. "There will be DLC."

Hang on...

This.

[Aedan276]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

This is not a constructive response guys. Be specific in your needs and I'll pass that to the team.

I can't give a response if I'm not sure what's going on. Is there going to be an alternate ending?Is there going to be post-ending DLC that somehow revives Shepard? Is pre-end DLC all we are going to get?

If it is post-ending DLC, then the main character would have to be Shepard (revived again), somehow revived and exploring the new world he helped create with a new method of FTL, maybe looking for his crew while fighting a group of people who are angry about whatever transformation he has ushered in -- humans who are angry about what opening the Charon Mass Relay ultimately did to their species, or aliens who are angry with Shepard for destroying them. 

I don't have strong feelings about pre-ending, but for the sake of charity, I guess something to do with Harbinger. 

[omntt]

There are plenty of well written links and posts about what we want.
Scrap the whole catalyst scene, make something that makes sense and really feels like a victory, not a galactic magic colors explosion that probably manage to kill everything except your crew, doomed to starve.
Don't bother if you have to use something too "gamey" like, for example, a badass reaper.
Awesome party and life with LI if you manage to survive, some words on how life goes on for all the races that survived.
That's all? That's all.

[LostHero2k9]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Guys, this is an ongoing dialogue. Casey's post is not the final definitive answer to your concerns. This is a collaboration.

In order to be successful in this, I need you to help me gathering feedback and tell us what you want to see. I understand that people are still feeling emotionally raw or untrusting, and I'm not saying it's not valid to feel that way. However, if you want to see your feedback implemented, this needs to become constructive and rational.

Complaining more isn't going to get you what you want. Tell us what you need. Make polls, collect your thoughts. Chris and I are gathering this information and the developers are listening.

This is a partnership. Let's have hope and make your voice heard - that includes positive feedback too (if you like something we're doing, tell us so we know to keep it up!).

Hmm that is something we can work with...
Take a look around here, there are many very well written posts and topics describing what the issues are and what "we" want. Don't think it makes much sense to copy & paste repeat all those posts...
It's not that there aren't any ideas, yet.

Personally i would like to see one of two things happening:
a) see the link in my signature, that "extended" ending would make a difference and is a good beginning...
take the hallucination/indoctrination idea and simply add a "true ending"  after the ending actually in the game.
add a few missions where shepard wakes up/breaks crontrole of the reapers and let the fight to take back earth continue.
But this time please do something of an epilogue at the end explaining what is happening to the galaxy and all of sheps friends stil alive. At least text/comic based (even though i hate comics!). Ingame cutscenes would be epic but i do understand how much work a single cutscene requires...


Edit:
Just to make sure:
what i (and many others) absolutely do NOT want to see is DLC content added before the final mission like "take back omega" or something similar.
Because knowing how it all ends and that no decissions really matter renders every thing you do useless. And that is why i would never pay for additional content added BEFORE the end.

I guess I would buy content which plays AFTER the end though as long as it helps to understand what was happening and why...
Most importantly i want to know why the hell i have to extinct all forms of synthetic life only because the stupid child is telling me to do so because all robots will always kill all organics. That doesn't make sense because the Geth and EDI are my best friends.
Neither of them even thinks about wipen out organic forms of life, so why do i have to anihilate them just to get rid of the reapers?


PS: sorry for my english, no nativ speaker, but i hope i could make my point clear

Modifié par LostHero2k9, 17 mars 2012 - 02:57 .

[nightShadex]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

This is not a constructive response guys. Be specific in your needs and I'll pass that to the team.

I know it may be hard to find at this point, with so many threads flooding the boards, but there have been many comprehensive (albeit long) threads that describe pretty much every greivance. I think that this thread describes it in the most orderly and comprehensive detail:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9851623 
I would like to think that most everyone's concerns are in this thread.

[Jade5233]

So more double talk from BioWare without actually saying a darn thing? Shocking. *rolls eyes*
And at the same time giving himself and the team a big pat on the back for a game that culminates in this craptastic ending?

Mac Walters told us that the important part was the journey, not the destination. So if you pay for a cross country train trip that starts in California and is supposed to end on the East Coast, are we supposed to be perfectly content when they drop us off in downtown Detroit? I mean, hey. You got to see ocean, beautiful mountains, national landmarks along the way. Just don't wory about the fact that where you end up is somewhere you don't want to be, don't understand and completely not what you paid for! The destination IS important.


What do we want? We want endings with real choices and reflect the choices through the game--Dragon Age Origin did a great job of that. There were 20-some endings. Heck, there wasn't even a 100% happy ending in that thing (for females anyway). But it is a wonderful example of what we have come to expect of BioWare. And it should have been even more so since this was a 3 game saga, not a single game. Instead, we got an ending that made the rushed debacle that was the end of KOTOR II look like a masterpiece in comparison.

Modifié par Jade5233, 17 mars 2012 - 02:56 .