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Brent Knowles, former Bioware employee and lead DA:O designer, comments on ME3 endings


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#1
Doofe2012

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http://blog.brentkno.../#disqus_thread

I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point. It is a game. Not a movie. And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment. Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself. Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not
played it but in generally I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games... life in general is full of ****ty stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero. When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction. On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created. It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note.


Pay attention here, Bioware. This man is everything that was right with the company. What he is saying is exactly how most of us players feel. DA:O was one of your most successful games, and the fact that its lead designer no longer works for you is a clear foreshadowing of why you will go downhill once people are done with ME3.

Modifié par Doofe2012, 17 mars 2012 - 02:44 .


#2
Mr.House

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Good read, thanks.

#3
Chromie

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Too bad he's a former employee.

#4
Izithel

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Skelter192 wrote...

Too bad he's a former employee.

Still a pretty good contrast with how bioware changed.

#5
RocketManSR2

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Even if it's just an extended cut where we see Shepard playing with his/her son/daughter & Earth being rebuilt in the background at the very end, that's enough imo.

#6
Kastien

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I think if this guy was involved in the Mass Effect story more, there would be fewer of us enraged and on the forums for 2 weeks straight, and more of us replaying the game over and over.

#7
AkiKishi

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Well he's right Empire was bleak but it's still acknowledged as great. But had Jedi continued that bleakness. Death Star blows up taking the Galaxy with it I don't think anyone would have appreciated that.

#8
Sdrol117

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This is awesome. My night has been made.

#9
Zalbik

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RocketManSR2 wrote...

Even if it's just an extended cut where we see Shepard playing with his/her son/daughter & Earth being rebuilt in the background at the very end, that's enough imo.


No crap...its such a shame Posted Image

#10
Atakuma

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Skelter192 wrote...

Too bad he's a former employee.

Eh, he's overrated.

#11
SaulTighsEyePatch

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He sounds like he actually "gets" it. Unfortunately, thats probably why he was fired.

Modifié par SaulTighsEyePatch, 17 mars 2012 - 02:55 .


#12
RocketManSR2

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Zalbik wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Even if it's just an extended cut where we see Shepard playing with his/her son/daughter & Earth being rebuilt in the background at the very end, that's enough imo.


No crap...its such a shame Posted Image


Maybe for some symmetry, have the child be playing with a model ship just like the kid from the opening of the game.

#13
ncknck

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Good thing he was fired. Mass Effect is not an answer to his problems in life or lack of imagination. Its an immersive and epic drama story. Deal with it.

#14
Atakuma

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SaulTighsEyePatch wrote...

He sounds like he actually "gets" it. Unfortunately, thats probably why he was fired.

He left on his own.

#15
Zalbik

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On that page he comments:




Thanks for the comment. Sadly us lowly designers don't get royalties on games :)
(Which is actually one of the reasons I'm not working for a developer anymore... far too much effort gets spent making games without the same long-term reward somebody would get in the book or movies industry)- Brent


Make me feel less guilty about the used games market Posted Image

#16
HermanGunther

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This IS the man to listen too. He understands what we are saying. You would be wise to hear his opinions and weigh then against your own.

#17
Guest_simfamUP_*

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Atakuma wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Too bad he's a former employee.

Eh, he's overrated.


And underrated by some...

As for 'positive note,' I think what Brent is trying to say is that in a ending to a game, the protagonist needs to walk of with a feeling of accomplishment. Not necessarily having a 'disney' ending, but something to be proud of in the end. 

Planescape: Torment is a perfect example as how a story can end in tragedy, but still have that "wow" factor when finishing. TNO is left to redeem himself for his past, but the everything you wanted to know was wrapped up.

#18
Uchimura

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Doofe2012 wrote...

DA:O was one of your most successful games, and the fact that its lead designer no longer works for you is a clear foreshadowing of why you will go downhill once people are done with ME3.



That attitude is pretty rude. He says a few things and you put him above everyone who works at this company.

#19
Rrezz

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I wouldn't mind if instead of Harbinger leaving he waits till you gets up and says "you didnt think it would be that easy did you?" then hell kills you for real

#20
Sentr0

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Skelter192 wrote...

Too bad he's a former employee.


this, respect for the man

#21
Zalbik

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RocketManSR2 wrote...

Zalbik wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Even if it's just an extended cut where we see Shepard playing with his/her son/daughter & Earth being rebuilt in the background at the very end, that's enough imo.


No crap...its such a shame Posted Image


Maybe for some symmetry, have the child be playing with a model ship just like the kid from the opening of the game.


So simple and it likely would have shut the masses, including me, up.

#22
RocketManSR2

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"Congratulations, the galaxy is still doomed" is not a good way to end this trilogy. At all. Drama and loss I can accept. Hopelessness is something else entirely. That's what I felt watching the ending.

#23
RocketManSR2

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Zalbik wrote...

So simple and it likely would have shut the masses, including me, up.


lol Fans would have been in tears for all the right reasons.

#24
OdanUrr

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Doofe2012 wrote...

http://blog.brentkno.../#disqus_thread

I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point. It is a game. Not a movie. And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment. Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself. Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not
played it but in generally I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games... life in general is full of ****ty stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero. When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction. On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created. It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note.


Pay attention here, Bioware. This man is everything that was right with the company. What he is saying is exactly how most of us players feel. DA:O was one of your most successful games, and the fact that its lead designer no longer works for you is a clear foreshadowing of why you will go downhill once people are done with ME3.


Why is it so difficult to understand, I wonder?

#25
Redstar6

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ncknck wrote...

Good thing he was fired. Mass Effect is not an answer to his problems in life or lack of imagination. Its an immersive and epic drama story. Deal with it.

When did it become a drama?