228 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

simfamSP wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Too bad he's a former employee.

Eh, he's overrated.

And underrated by some...

As for 'positive note,' I think what Brent is trying to say is that in a ending to a game, the protagonist needs to walk of with a feeling of accomplishment. Not necessarily having a 'disney' ending, but something to be proud of in the end. 

Planescape: Torment is a perfect example as how a story can end in tragedy, but still have that "wow" factor when finishing. TNO is left to redeem himself for his past, but the everything you wanted to know was wrapped up.

More people should know about that game.

[Lancane]

Knowles understands the importance of story driven games, particularly those of this specific genre. It's rather sad that Bioware has produced games lately which are superior graphically but fall short in terms of either gameplay or the storyline. I love Dragon Age: Origins, and Dragon Age II was superior in many ways, but they seemed to have cut corners and really didn't flesh out the world as they should have, they could have fixed that easily enough. Mass Effect was brilliant, of course there were a fair share of bugs, but overall the game was beyond merely enjoyable, Mass Effect 2 sort of reminded me of Dragon Age II, they didn't flesh it out enough, cut corners and lost some of the RPG elements that should have remained. Mass Effect 3 looked to be the pinnacle of all we've seen, the story was tremendously well written give the last 10 or 15 minutes and the ending which was horrid, the game play was substantially better and improved, graphically the game was brilliant. You have to wonder if Bioware really understands the genre anymore, they could do so much with where they have come but continue to fall flat in the end.

[Everwarden]

Skelter192 wrote...

Too bad he's a former employee.

I guess his policy of making good games didn't mesh with EA's policy of... not doing that. 

[Artemis_Entrari]

Mr. Knowles' two points posted above are pretty spot on, and two of the biggest reasons why the ending failed so miserably, IMO.

Modifié par Artemis_Entrari, 17 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[xxskyshadowxx]

Kastien wrote...

I think if this guy was involved in the Mass Effect story more, there would be fewer of us enraged and on the forums for 2 weeks straight, and more of us replaying the game over and over.

I very much agree! I have played DA:O several times, and will likely play it again sometime. I wanted that to be the case with Mass Effect. I bought ME3 planning to play through it based on my current saves, then start the whole epic over from the beginning.

Then I got to the end of Mass Effect 3 and lost all replay interest.

[felipejiraya]

Brent Knowles cussing BioWare, why am I not surprised?

[Shinobu]

What games is he making now? I want to buy them.

[OdanUrr]

Redstar6 wrote...

ncknck wrote...

Good thing he was fired. Mass Effect is not an answer to his problems in life or lack of imagination. Its an immersive and epic drama story. Deal with it.

When did it become a drama?

When it needed to boost sales?

[Atakuma]

He makes valid points, with the exception of the whole "entitlement is a right" part. People Have the right to be upset and voice their complaints, but they are not entitled to anything and that attitude shouldn't be encouraged.

[London]

Good post.

[Maverick827]

I agree with #1, and strongly disagree with #2. That said, #1 means that #2 shouldn't be the only possibility.

[Oldbones2]

Whether or not a game must end on a positive note is subjective.

But games inherently reward players for playing. In fact that's why we find them so addictive. The thing about ME 3 is that it punishes players for playing at the end regardless of what you choose.

For example My original DA O playthrough had a terribly tragic ending. Warden falls in love with Morrigan, then refuses ritual, she leaves forever, he has already killed Logain so he is kinda in a box when it came to the final hour.

My warden CHOSE to kill the archdemon himself and die, rather than asking a friend to do so in his place.

For those keeping score at home. My warden died young, after his love left him, and went to his grave thinking all his family was dead (cousland). This is a horrifically tragic ending. Like just awful. I LOVED IT.

Why?

Because it was my choice. And it was heroic.

On subsequent playthroughs I lived by sparing Logain or doing the ritual, but the fact that I could choose what would happen made it better.

And therein lies the problem. Films are external, we see and hear things happen to SOMEONE ELSE.

Games that are RPG's are partially internal, my Shepard looks like me, makes the choices I would make, and picks the girl I would fall for. This means that for all intents and purposes, the world of Mass Effect is happening TO ME.

This is awesome but so rarely done well that most of us never really felt it before ME 3. Now think about this for a second.

In a dark, cynical film or a standard video game if the hero dies, it has happened to someone else. While sad this is hardly going to stick with you. Cause in point, while I was sad that Soap from CoD died, I didn't really care that much.

In an RPG the player IS the character. The character has almost no form beyond what I give him. Therefore I (and everyone else who plays ME 3) am Shepard.

In ME 3, no matter what I do, I ****ing die. I don't save hardly anyone (arrival proves that giant Mass Relay explosions kill), and all my good work is essentially undone. Notice the 'I's.

Shepard isn't failing. I am. I just failed so many people in such a real and graphic way that it could very well cause PTSD.

So while a game doesn't 'have' to end on a positive note, there had better be an option where 'I' don't completely fail.

[ncknck]

Redstar6 wrote...

ncknck wrote...

Good thing he was fired. Mass Effect is not an answer to his problems in life or lack of imagination. Its an immersive and epic drama story. Deal with it.

When did it become a drama?

When was it something else? Even in ME1 we are getting lots of clues that the reapers cannot be stopped. Two possible outcomes. Either go a b-style trash action movie or a drama. Were you expecting "Independence Day"? Well i didnt, and glad it didnt turned out to be one, cause it was a really sh*tty movie.

Modifié par ncknck, 17 mars 2012 - 03:33 .

[devSin]

I agree with what everything he said, but he also would never have been working on the ME team, so they would have sucked whether he was still with BioWare or not.

[TacitMortuus]

But if you listen throughout the next 2 games, you realize that the Protheans almost won. That they almost beat them. The Reapers always relied on discord and surprise (no communication or grouping up). This did not work in the cycle. Shepard stopped it. Enough people knew it was coming (or had a clue) to set contingencies in place. At the end. If galactic readiness is over 5000 (ALOT) we should get a good ending where they beat the reapers. It is logistics, the Reaper fleet is comparatively small against the 20000+ ship fleet you can amass. This isnt thermopylae. Sheer numbers could overrun the Reapers. It is an All-or-Nothing fight. I have an idea. What if- to save the rest of the galaxy they destroy the Sol Relay? Wouldnt that make sense? Sacrifice a few to save the Trillions left? I call that "Victory at all costs". All the Reapers wiped away in an instant. Has anybody considered that that could be a choice?

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

Shinobu wrote...

What games is he making now? I want to buy them.

[MACharlie1]

I'm surprised he even said anything.

Typically doesn't look good when you talk thinly veiled crap about your former employer.

[starscreamerx31]

Good read

[Levvi]

MACharlie1 wrote...

I'm surprised he even said anything.

Typically doesn't look good when you talk thinly veiled crap about your former employer.

He didn't talk "crap." He spoke with civility and simply disagreed with the direction they took. Brent Knowles was right about Dragon Age 2 and he was right about this.

[ADelusiveMan]

TacitMortuus wrote...

What if- to save the rest of the galaxy they destroy the Sol Relay? Wouldnt that make sense? Sacrifice a few to save the Trillions left? I call that "Victory at all costs". All the Reapers wiped away in an instant. Has anybody considered that that could be a choice?

That's basically what happened in Arrival, except it was the Batarians instead of humans. Reapers came anyway. It would only be a matter of time.

Modifié par ADelusiveMan, 17 mars 2012 - 04:01 .

[TacitMortuus]

I mean at the end when the reapers are all crowded around Earth, Why not blow it then?

[chengthao]

i never understood why ppl expected a happy ending

i mean we all know that when WW2 ended, there was no dancing in Times Square in New York, we all kno there was no cheering in Moscow or London or even Paris

we all know that the soldiers, sailors, marines and airman (on the winning side) all felt depressed and angry b/c they all knew they were going to be unemployed, i mean how could they possibly feel great knowing their great struggle was over

wait . . . . . i think BW needs to study history

[frostajulie]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

"Congratulations, the galaxy is still doomed" is not a good way to end this trilogy. At all. Drama and loss I can accept. Hopelessness is something else entirely. That's what I felt watching the ending.

I have been trying for days to say exactly this and all that comes out is incoherant nerdrage.

This is it.
Thank you.

[Rykoth]

If Mass Effect had ended on a completely positive note, /I/ would have raged at the endings. And there is no hopelessness in the ending, you people just choose to see it from a half empty POV.