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ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed


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#2626
jupitertronic

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Aislinn Trista wrote...

bboynexus wrote...

No, I don't think saving Thane should be an option at all.


Who's your love interest?  I think we should not have an option to save them either.  Let them continue hanging out on 'mysterious jungle planet A'.

Yeah, I know, that's a low blow.  Still, people lack the perspective of how terribly they handled Thane's romance.  And in this galaxy full of space magic, genophage cures and organic/synthetic DNA melding (which makes absolutely NO SENSE whatsoever)... how is this an unreasonable option?

You don't wanna take that option, don't take it.  It's not gonna spoil your game experience.


Thank you, Aislinn.

I get that some people feel Thane's death was done well, but you know what? For me, Mordin's death was done well, too - yet it's possible to keep him alive in the game and miss Mordin's death scene entirely. That's a really powerful moment, as is Thane's death (unless you romanced him - then it doesn't play as well) - but I wouldn't deny a Mordin fan a chance to save his life. Don't deny me that chance. You can still let him die in your game. 

Just as an example, I totally hate Miranda and was glad she died on my playthrough. But if someone told me she has to die in this game no matter what, I'd think that was pretty lame for all the people who liked her.

As far as I know, every squadmate/romanceable character has a chance to either live or die in ME3, except Thane, whose fate is written in stone. This would only be understandable if there hadn't been multiple hints of cures for Kepral's happening in Thane's lifetime (Shadow Broker DLC). 

I understand and agree that Thane's character assassination isn't as much of an issue as the huge mistake that is the ending of the game. But as this thread has the general name "ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread," I think it's important to bring up that the treatment of this character's story really did majorly impact my gameplay experience for the worse, and if at all possible I'd love to see it fixed.

Modifié par jupitertronic, 18 mars 2012 - 09:30 .


#2627
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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jimbo32 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Did anybody suggest to BioWare to change up Tali's face reveal? I haven't seen the actual picture but what I've heard makes me think it's a cheap cop out.


Honestly, I think the in-game photo is fine. If nobody had bothered to dig through online stock images, we'd've never known the difference. Where I think the cop-out lies is in the Tali romance. Shepard should've gotten to see her actual face, and not just a photo.

That's what I mean. BioWare didn't want to commit to an actual in-game reveal of her face so they decided to use the photo. I hope they can create an actual model for Tali's face and then have her visibly show the players what she looks like.

#2628
Sszantar

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To kick this off I'll start with a statement that, barring the final 5-10 minutes, I absolutely loved the game. It had
great cinematic moments, great emotional impact, great gameplay and environment design. Despite my overwhelming reservations concerning the conclusion, I have already finished 5 complete playthroughs.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for the actual "changes/feedback", I'll begin with a few smaller things that haven't been getting much attention in light of the Ending fiasco. (360 version)

For such a big-name (and dialogue-based) title, ME3 had a staggeringly large number of animation glitches throughout the entire game. Characters looking in random directions while speaking, or having their bodies facing different directions every time the camera cuts to a new angle. Characters abruptly jumping to new animations. Weapons in hand that suddenly disappear when the camera changes. Femshep's neck clipping through the back of the blue Officer Uniform casual outfit.

There are at least 2 (that I've noticed) missing voiceover lines from Femshep that are simply displayed as subtitles. One when Cortez gets shot down (and survives) on the final mission. One when you're reactivating the AA guns on the Ex-Cerberus Scientists mission with Jacob.

These are simple things that should never have made it to the release version of the game.


Concerning war assets: I was severely disappointed in the lack of actual impact. I wanted to see my painstakingly-gathered armies fighting alongside me, see my Spectre team and STG teams causing damage, and my old squadmates kicking ass. I wanted to see my Volus bombing fleet and Javelin Missile-equipped Crucible facing off with the Reapers.

Having such a large portion of my gameplay time relegated to nothing but a number and a little green bar was disheartening.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, *deep breath* my thoughts concerning the ending. A few key points bolded for emphasis.

To start I will say that I fully support, and sincerely hope to see, future DLC to modify and/or expand on the ending, to give the series the epic finale it deserves.

I love the entire Mass Effect franchise. To see it end the way it did was... amazingly unfulfilling. It completely broke the immersion of the story and lacked any real emotional impact (aside from the soul-crush of seeing the best game trilogy in the last decade end that way).

It felt amazingly rushed and out of place for the setting, starting to a lesser extent when I first stepped through the blue beam - but really kicking in with the introduction of the Starchild and the final choice. It felt like having the rug yanked out from under my feet at the last moment. I would personally like to see the Starchild sequence entirely written out of the game and replaced with something more fitting to the previously established Mass Effect lore.

Also, to truly bring the trilogy to an appropriate conclusion we need some sort of closure for the characters we've been learning to love for the last five years. In a lot of ways, they form the heart and soul of the franchise - whisking them away and leaving them in a state of limbo does not a fulfilling conclusion make.

As many have said before: give us a well-developed epilogue based on the things we've done over the course of the trilogy. Show us memorial services for the fallen, monuments to the heroes, celebrations for the survivors. Even on a less-than-happy end, make us (the players) feel like the legendary hero our character is.

To fully do justice to the Mass Effect trilogy it needs a range of different endings. From the heroic triumph to the bittersweet sacrifices, to the downright soul-crushingly sad. The main thing is that the ending(s) need to feel personal and evoke emotions, whether that be pride, joy, sadness, or a combination of these.

Also, after spending so much of ME2 building up a vendetta with Harbinger, I seriously want to see some sort of personal closure between him and Shepard. A big red death beam out of the sky doesn't count as "closure" in my book.

Modifié par Sszantar, 18 mars 2012 - 09:41 .


#2629
Moirai

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I was under the clear impression that this thread was purely for suggestions for fixing the 'ending' of the game. People seem to be suggesting a whole pile of stuff to be changed else where in the game, which isn't the purpose of the thread and just confuses the issue. Besides, none on that is going to be touched right now.

Let's stay focused on the actual issue and post our suggestions regarding the ending clearly in neat bullet-pointed lists so that Jessica and Casey can process the suggestions more easily.

The quicker they can do so, the quicker we can move on to something more concrete.

#2630
mnomaha

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thedistortedchild wrote...

I want to see the outcomes of my choices, I want an epilogue. I want the crew to survive and my shep to be with them.
Real life is depressing enough, I'd like my escapism to be less so.


This. OMG Exactly this! I play games to escape real life.

#2631
MizzNaaa

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nullobject wrote...

[*]

  • ...do not succumb to fan pressure to provide a happily-ever-after scene with their Love Interest. 


Don't speak for the rest of us. You don't want that happily ever after? Don't do it. We're asking for more OPITONS. We're not trying to force anything upon you, so don't try to force anything upon us. 

I'd pay to see that ending.

#2632
Yorumu

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So, here's a few things about the ending only, that I would like to point out from the perspective of traditional roleplaying.  Slowly and surely I'll be trying to get this trimmed down to the bare essentials.

Now to the meat of my post.

There are two kinds of players in most traditional RPGs. Players and game master(In video games the game master is the game developer). Game masters responsibilities are focus, continuity, challenges, rewards, atmosphere, NPCs, forces of nature, passage of time and supporting roleplay.

Focus is what the characters and players can see and know about the world. In video games this is done by graphics, sound, gameplay, text, voice and so on. What the ending did wrong in this regard, is the forced focus. The players cannot influence what they get to know or see from this starchild or about the characters/groups that he/she cares about.

Continuity is destroyed with plotholes. Plotholes are a thing that I do find myself do from time to time, but usually I can also come up with things, that adhere to the verisimilitude of the games and worlds internal logic, which would fill those plotholes. In the Mass effects ending, the only things that could explain it are so far the indoctrination theory and some other tidbits that explain why the catalyst didn't help Sovereign in ME1 or the collectors and reapers in ME2. Jokers and squadmates sudden disappearance from the battle falls under this too, even though they are "just" NPCs.

Challenges. Now, personally, I do consider a smacktalk and debate to be challenges just like shootout. In videogames, you can't usually do things like this. In DE:HR you could conflict with someone on intellectual level, even if it was just a puzzle to figure out which of the lines was the "right" one for getting the best result. In ME3, the puzzle wasn't there, but there was still a challenge. The challenge was that of motivations vs getting results. Shepard needs to build an army against reapers while still trying to hold on to his/her gender unspecific morals.

For paragon it was always a challenge to get everybody trough the troubles, with no one left behind. You didn't lose a health bar but you took a hit to your morale when you couldn't do things that you hoped. "How does Shepard go against the threat of reapers without regrets, without giving up on his/her principles?" That is why I do consider the talk with the Illusive man to be the last boss fight, instead of Marauder Shields(Hi! His name is... Wha? His name is... Who? His name is...). Granted, the system doesn't allow for much imagination and argumentative maneuvers, but it is still a system that has its challenge value. That's also a thing that the ending did wrong. You couldn't challenge the starchild.

Atmosphere changes in ending. The change is sudden and combined with the forced focus, broken continuity, lack of reward and no support for roleplaying, I would bet that the shattered immersion that this creates is the reason for the hollow feeling that it left with many people. The atmosphere was utterly destroyed in the ending for those who were heavily immersed in their characters.

Now, briefly about the NPCs. I hated KL, the cyborg ninja with plot-armour. The amount of bullets I put trough his head alone when he was refreshing his shields could jumpstart the metal industry! If the earth would have survived, that is. But back to the ending with Starchild.
Where did Starchild get these clearly sub-optimal "solutions" to a problem that is open for debate under the light of latest data? It's rather sad that a being so old and powerful is unable to think with scientific method. Starchild clearly has the advantage of time and he controls space magic, yet he seems so pitiful in logic and imagination on what to do with his powers. That underlines the supposed age of this being. It's like this thing is truly a young child, both in mind and motivations, despite the overwhelming amount of time he has had to ponder his logic.

Next on the list is rewards. What was the reward for saving the galaxy? Getting to the beach with Garrus, enjoying the royalties from the vids? Blue Children? House on the magical invisible rocks with Tali? Going to see your mom and saying "Mother! I saved the galaxy, yo!" while emptying your pistol, held sideways, to the nearest reaper. Yes, these were some of the simplest and smallest rewards that were promised in the game. Yet, you couldn't get them, not because of lack your characters skill, dedication, lack of morals or anything else that would stem from you or your Shepard. You were forced to abandon these rewards. In the end, you couldn't even save the galaxy or earth. Not because of lack of skill. Because you weren't allowed to do so by the game.

Forces of nature and passage of time.  There's nothing really big with these two. Just the thing with Shepard breathing in space and Jokers Taco run shenanigans and the time he found for it.

Now the last thing, and this is an important part. Lack of support for roleplaying. I've stated this before, but I have a heavy traditional roleplaying background. Dungeons and dragons, world of darkness, Mouse guard and so on. With ME, I always thought that the game would force me to go certain direction.There's no such freedom in video game RPGs as one would have in traditional ones but certain rules for fun still apply, regardless of the limitations forced by the medium. (No holding two pistols sideways and ridiculing the harbinger with "Yo momma so fat..." jokes inside ME3 is the greatest lack of freedom in games I’ve come to face in my life)

The most important one of those rules, which you broke really badly in ME3 ending, is player choice. In roleplaying games, the game masters role is to rule the world. What the characters see, what consequences their actions create, what happens in the background, what motivates the non-player characters and how the non-player characters act. In short, game master is responsible for everything and rules everything, EXPECT for player characters actions.

Players are the ones who control player characters. This rule is absolute. Only certain things can take that control away, like mind control and even then this should be under heavy scrutiny. There must be a way for the character to break free from the control, no matter how small of a chance.

If this rule is bended it's called railroading. Railroading is not good practise when the story is on some important part because it breaks the collaborative story creation process. The game is no longer a brainchild of two or more individuals. It turns the participants into one storyteller and his listeners. Railroading is fine when you talk about going from point A to B. Railroading is not fine when the player character needs to decide the fate of the whole galaxy. Deus ex machina is excellent for when everybody, players and game master, wants something to happen(save some loved npc in example) but only a sudden stroke of luck could do the trick. Deus ex machina isn't a good way to force a tragic hero ending. Especially when the players do not want such an ending for their hero.  

There was absolutely no support from the game for roleplaying on the last stretch of the game. In fact, the game pushed the player away from the ring of collaborative storytelling and started to tell the player how it all went down. This broke the immersion. This broke the connection between the players and the game. This is the reason why so many feel betrayed. They couldn't influence the last part, the most important part that would have allowed them to let go. There was no debrief for coming off the character of commander Shepherd for the players who were immersed. You took control of their characters and everything that they had build, everything that they had put their emotions into, and killed it in front of them without allowing them any way to accept it. This is railroading and it's cruel in role playing games that people immerse themselves in. There are debriefs in live-roleplaying games for reason. To give the players a change to let go of the characters. The ending of ME3 did everything wrong in this regard. What kind of roleplayer would want to play in any new campaign with that kind game master?

So, there it is. A rather long and boring post from a guy with a bottle of chocolate drink and some time to spare after finishing the game over the night. Thank you if you read this far and cheers for Bioware for inspiring me to have giggling adventures with gangstarappers in space. Even if most of the dialog was inside my head.


(edit number goes to the pile on the left)

Modifié par Yorumu, 18 mars 2012 - 10:46 .


#2633
JulienJaden

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Aislinn Trista wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

And please...

...do not succumb to fan pressure to provide a happily-ever-after scene with their Love Interest.

[/list]
Do not talk for me. I want that ending to happen. Also, this would be OPTIONAL. Don't want it? Don't do it.


Same goes for me.  Thank you.


I agree. Originally, I didn't think giving us a good ending would be mandatory, since I was mostly concerned with the many aspects of the ending that were just messed up, didn't make any sense and didn't reward anything. But after thinking it through, I've come to understand what's wrong with not giving us the freedom of choice between a great many endings, among which good outcomes definitely have to be, in a game that postulates freedom of choice and that every choice has its consequence. Add some good endings that are just good, for those who did it perfectly, some that are good but cost you/the galaxy (Shepard being egoistic), some mediocre outcomes (in some, he/she survives and in some Shepard doesn't, while the casualties are staggering and the galaxy is only 'technically' saved) and some bad endings (everybody dies, Reapers win; or maybe even just: Catalyst gets destroyed but Shepard survives and leads the resistance, knowing that they have failed and that the Cycle will continue). Stuff like that. Freedom of choice.

I cannot stress this enough: Give us MANY endings. In my feedback post (should be around either page 30 or 50), I came up with at least 9 completely different outcomes off the top of my head. Granted, all of them are very basic and I should probably go over the layout again to make it more readable, but if I can do it, so can you, and it is really important to offer this level of diversity.

#2634
spruce56

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For me, ME3 almost everything I'd hoped for, but the ending was utterly joyless. There were two key scenes I wanted to see in ME3, back when I first preordered it back in June or so:

1 - I wanted to see the game start off with Kaidan and Joker in the cockpit like old times; this didn't happen precisely, but the hope was answered in essence. I was curious whether Bioware would expound on whether the dynamics between Joker and the crew, and particularly the LI had changed after he kind of got Shepard killed. And hey, close enough, I loved how the Normandy crew moved around the ship and interacted with one another.

2 - I wanted ME3 to end on a similar note to 'From the Wreckage', in ME1, where it looked like Shepard had been squashed until she/he limped around the rubble triumphantly. That was an incredible feeling of victory and satisfaction for me, and for a long time after, the final tracks of the ME1 soundtrack were the mainstays of my 'happy music'

Both of these scenes represented a sort of symmetry, the ME story coming full circle back to a good place. I found it interesting that the developers wanted the ending of ME3 to be memorable; for me, the endings of ME1 and 2 were extremely memorable! I loved the universe and the characters, and the hopefulness of the story.

I think a new ending for ME3 would be worth doing, to enable those players who enjoy a more open, prosaic ending to complete the game with lower EMS values, and pedantic completionists like myself to achieve a bright ending in the spirit of the previous two games. To specify; by bright, I mean a final result that would allow Shepard to survive with company, instead of the galaxy as she/he knew it coming to an end, and bringing about extinction/mass suicide among the stranded races.

I confess, I would rather witness Dr Chakwas enjoying her brandy post-Crucible, than the sort of sterile 'tell me another story' exchange between two symbolic characters that was shown. ME was a personal game for me, and it was the fate of the cast and local galaxy (tank elcors and krogan on dinosaurs!) that mattered more than the ultimate fate of the universe, or whatever the blue kid was meant to represent.

#2635
BalooTheBear

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Just woken up, any more bioware news in the last 30 - 40 pages?

#2636
nullobject

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Teddie Sage wrote...

And please...

...do not succumb to fan pressure to provide a happily-ever-after scene with their Love Interest.

[/list]Do not talk for me.


Who suggested I was? 

I want that ending to happen. Also, this would be OPTIONAL. Don't want it? Don't do it.


Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

That this thread exists suggests Bioware are at least contemplating making changes. If they do release additional content aimed at fixing the ending, it will have a limited budget and production schedule. The amount of work required to make a "happily ever after" scene for the 9 relationship options in the game (10 if you count gender variations with Liara, 14 if you count secretaries/pilots with gender variations) would mean a whole bunch of other things that could go in the "fixup" DLC  would have to be cut.  People who don't want those parts can't just ignore them, as the scope of the whole package would have been reduced to accomodate them. Better they spend the resources on things that give more bang for buck.

EDIT: counting, how does it work?

Modifié par nullobject, 18 mars 2012 - 10:28 .


#2637
XTiferethX

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We need the ending fixed so we can enjoy playing the game

#2638
Moirai

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Again, they are not looking for intricate wall-of-text expositions on what was wrong with the ending, but clean clear bullet-point lists of concise suggestions of what we would like to see changed/included at the end of ME3.

They are aware that we don't like the ending. Telling them that we don't like it here is just bloating the thread and making it more difficult for them to understand what we want.

At this rate it is going to take them longer to process the contents of this thread than it will to provide any possible 'fix'.

Let's keep it clean and focused and to the point.

Modifié par Moirai, 18 mars 2012 - 10:04 .


#2639
darkshadow136

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 Dear Bioware,

The game play up to the last part of
ME3 was great, but the end of the game ruined the entire series and the
franchise. The parts that ruined the game for me are listed below.

1.1.        
The endings for the game were
horrible 3 choices that led to 16 variations of the same black. No variety like
promised, all the endings shared 95% the same cut scenes. We were promised
throughout the series that all our choices would shape not only our Sheppard
but the galaxy and the final ending to the series; this was taken away in the
final 15 minutes of the game. You can’t just take an interactive game built on
choice and make it into a linear game in the final moments.

1.2.        
Multi player content should have no
effect on the single player campaign. There is a reason why no other game has implemented
this, since not everyone like multi player. A player should be able to reach
100% galactic readiness without having to play multi player.

1.3.        
I did not like that after you make it
clear to Cortez that you are not interested in him, that he still seems to push
you towards liking him in future conversations. My personal beliefs I don’t
approve of the Homosexual lifestyle, and I don’t feel I need to have that
pushed on  my in a game.

1.4.        
We want our endings more varied and distinct
from each other like was promised, having all our choices taken into account in
the final outcome.

1.5.        
Fill the plot holes give us a real back
round on the Reapers, and their purpose, bring Harbringer into the picture
more.

1.6.        
For those that ME3 is their first
exposure to the ME universe, offer them a DLC that allows them to make the
choices they would have had a chance to if they played ME1-ME2. This will make
more revenue for Bioware in a DLC purchase, and give the player a chance to
have a real full ME3 experience and a bump in galactic readiness to help with
their ending.

1.7.        
The Rachni were always represented in
ME1/ME2 as being an important part of ME3, and in ME3 they played a very small
part. We had to save them again, and all they did was help build the crucible.
We should have seen some Rachni ships in our fleet and so on.

1.8.        
We were also told in previous
magazine interviews prior to release that Cerberus was going to be an enemy,
and that we should make sure to destroy the collector base  in our ME2 saves, This was so the illusive man
would not get a hold of Reaper tech. Well I destroyed the collector base and
the Illusive man still got a hold of Reaper tech. How he got acquired Reaper
tech needs to be explained.

1.9.        
One of the pieces of feedback many of
us asked for was the return of the Mako Tank and exploration missions. That
feedback seems to have fallen on deaf ears since we have no Mako missions in
ME3. 

1.10.   
We had Loyalty missions in ME2 and it
would have been nice to have them with the new squad members of ME3, it added
immersion into the relationships with the characters.

1.11.   
A helmet toggle option similar to
what we had in ME1 would be nice, especially with the custom sets of armor we
got from pre-orders, and import saves.

1.12.   
If you are going to have 16 variations
on the ending fine. But You could cut that to 6 endings and make them so varied
and different it would make a more complete experience, with a excellent, very
good, good, neutral, bad, very bad ending. The key thing being that it takes
our past choices and actions into account, not just war assets and galactic readiness.

I know that if at least the endings
are not redone I will no longer purchase products from Bioware, and the ending
DLC should be free, since we already paid for a proper ending to the game we
purchased. People make the argument that the game is Art and not subject to
pressure to change.

I make the argument that an
Interactive game like the Mass Effect series, in which certain promises and
descriptions and player game shaping was established by the company makes it a Commercial
product , with art aspects, and a every changing storyline, sue to the players participation
in the creative process. ME3 is not a piece of art to mat and hang on a wall
and it is not a 1st edition book to place in a protective case. 

When customers like us give you Bioware
5 years of our life playing your series, making choices, taking different paths
on different Sheppard’s so we can have a complete experience, and that trilogy
is ended in the linear way you chose to do, it was a betrayal not only to your
customers, but to the epic masterpiece that we have helped you shape over the
last 5 years.

Bioware it is time for you to be
Sheppard, and you have a new mission, gain back our loyalty so we can together battle
and claim victory over the Reapers.

Game as is 3/10
Game with just the endings fixed 8/10
Game with all things fixed 10/10

#2640
nikita bal-10917

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Creating family with my love (Ashley).

#2641
SilentK

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I love the game to bits, the gameplay is wonderful and FemShep is great  :wizard:

But I am so very very disappointed at the lack of choice that is given to FemShep concerning LI:s. You have created this wonderful character but you did not give her the same options as BroShep when it comes to the ME2-romances

Miranda: Good content, Tali: squad member, Jack: Less but what ge get to see of her is great!
Jacob: Nada, silch, "My new GF want's to name the kid after you, FemShep", Garrus: squad memeber, Thane: Whoops, we forgot that some people romanced him.

I can live with FemShep having fewer male options than BroShep, because there are more players who play a male char. There are a few smaller female LI-roles like Kelly but it never bothered me before. But here in ME3, there is no way to romance neither Jacob nor Thane. I just happen to like human males so Jacob and Kaidan were my fav romances. Now there is only Kaidan as the last male human LI as compared to Ash, Miranda, Jack for bigger roles or Kelly and Allers for smaller roles.

I can live with FemShep having fewer male LI:s than BroShep has females LI:s, if we get to continue our romance-arcs with Jacob and Thane. As it is now, it isn't even possible to roleplay the FemShep that romanced Jacob because the game doesn't take into account that there was a romance in ME2 so you automatically get the horrible friendship dialogue. 

Jacob: "My new girl want's to name the kid after you (FemShep), but I'll talk her out of it. No hard feelings"
FemShep: "None taken"


"ME3, when BroShep get's more men than FemShep", he get's Kaidan and Cortez when FemShep only has Kaidan.


Give us who romanced Jacob a way to continue the romance-arc with him, give us options. If we contact him and reaffirm the relationship early in the game we get to continue with him in a good romance-arc because in ME2 his convos were great. He had some of the best romance-dialouge I have seen since he was the only one who questioned how FemShep was doing. How she handeled the stresses of command. If you don't connect with him then goes on perhaps.

Lack of re-play value for FemShep
I just don't recognize my BioWare games in this, there never was such a difference in replay-value for MaleChar or FemaleChar in DA:O, DAII, ME and ME2. There is no replay value in creating a FemShep for my beloved Jacob or Thane. I still would have gotten this game because it is great! But I would not have gotten a CE, because I can only play my FemShep's who romanced Kaidan and Liara, I only see Garrus as a friend.

Modifié par SilentK, 18 mars 2012 - 10:14 .


#2642
Beef Swellings

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DO NOT CAVE TO PEOPLE ASKING FOR A HAPPY ENDING.

A heroes journey with strong themes of self sacrifice does not lend itself well to an ending in which the hero survives. An ending that makes sense, has some form of catharsis and retains the themes of choice, defiance in the face of overwhelming odds, unity, etc, would be the right way to go if you guys are entertaining the idea of further endings. Furthermore, Quarian and Geth Alliance screws the logic of the ending so completely that I am still, a week later, shocked that no one on the writing team saw this contradiction. Otherwise, some general bug fixing with the animation and odd pauses during dialogue would be nice. Great game, barring the ending really.

AGAIN

HAPPY ENDING, NO
CATHARTIC ENDING, YES

DEUS EX MACHINA AND SHALLOW MYSTICISM, NO
ENDING THAT MAKES SENSE AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE THEMES OF THE SERIES, YES

#2643
JulienJaden

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Beef Swellings wrote...

DO NOT CAVE TO PEOPLE ASKING FOR A HAPPY ENDING.

A heroes journey with strong themes of self sacrifice does not lend itself well to an ending in which the hero survives. An ending that makes sense, has some form of catharsis and retains the themes of choice, defiance in the face of overwhelming odds, unity, etc, would be the right way to go if you guys are entertaining the idea of further endings. Furthermore, Quarian and Geth Alliance screws the logic of the ending so completely that I am still, a week later, shocked that no one on the writing team saw this contradiction. Otherwise, some general bug fixing with the animation and odd pauses during dialogue would be nice. Great game, barring the ending really.

AGAIN

HAPPY ENDING, NO
CATHARTIC ENDING, YES

DEUS EX MACHINA AND SHALLOW MYSTICISM, NO
ENDING THAT MAKES SENSE AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE THEMES OF THE SERIES, YES


With all due respect, that is not true. Not in every epic, the hero dies (and Mass Effect is not a tragedy). Lord of the Rings is the prime example for this because everybody knows it. Frodo doesn't die. Except for Boromir, no member of the Fellowship dies. Many others lose their lives and it could have very well ended differently. All of them were willing to give their lives in the end. But this theme of willingness to sacrifice yourself doesn't mean that it has to end this way.

So, it's more like:

A HAPPY ENDING THAT MAKES SENSE, YES
SEVERAL CATHARTIC ENDINGs, YES

DEUS EX MACHINA AND SHALLOW MYSTICISM, NO
ENDING THAT MAKES SENSE AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE THEMES OF THE SERIES, YES


Bear in mind that everyone has his/her own Shepard. If you think your Shepard HAS to die, then go ahead, go for an ending in which your Shepard sacrifices him-/herself. But don't force it on everybody. Everyone here has a different opinion on how the story should end for Shepard. And some of us want one Shepard to die and another to live happily ever after, one to do what must be done and one to get the rest and peace he/she deserves.

At the very least, respect that most of us disagree with you and have good reason to do so.

Modifié par JulienJaden, 18 mars 2012 - 10:24 .


#2644
Jackal7713

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RaenImrahl wrote...

Bioware's Jessica Merizan has made a request of the community...

Jessica Merizan wrote...

I think I need to clarify myself. For the past few weeks, I've been collecting feedback. I have excel sheets, word documents, quotes, graphs, you name it.

In order for a collaboration between the devs and the fans to work, I need you guys to CONTINUE being constructive, and organizing your thoughts. I know where to look, but I need you to help me by contributing to the dialogue.

Saying "this blows" helps no one. Saying, "I enjoyed X but I found Z _____ because of A,B,C" is what I'm looking for. Channel your frustration into something positive (such as the RetakeME3 movement - constructive, organized thoughts).

Chris and I are both collecting your feedback. We're listening. Make yourself heard.


Please use this thread to post your constructive feedback, which may include spoilers. Spam images will not be allowed, per the forum rules.

(The original, now defunct thread on the topic in this forum is located here: http://social.biowar...ndex/10093191/1)


With all do respect, the ending to mass efect 3 just wrecks the overall game.
My first problem is how the war assets you spend all this time collecting, only help lead you to one ending with three different colors. You would thinnk if you have 7k in war assets, they would effect the final batte in some fashion. Not just used to be a key to star kid and his three color choices of death. And yes, shepard taking a single breath counts as a death. There is no closure to the story, LI  or friendships that you made over the course of 3 games.  You need to put time into making ending that reflect paragon / renagade chioces. War assets should  be of more help in the final battle. Oh and don't forget look at ending a LI. After three games I think if a players want to have a shepard retire w/ LI ending then you should put it in.  I don't think having a few in the game is going to anything wrong to the story. Otherwise your left with a kid asking you what color do you want before you die?

#2645
Aetius5

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, endPositive Feedback: great game, engaging characters, story, locations and gunplay.

Critical feedback: even if the Indoctrination ending is correct, ending the game on the note it did is unacceptable. One of the main hooks of the marketing campaign is to "take back Earth". Why market the game as that when the whole time you are there, you are getting your butt kicked? Then when the Reaper situation is resolved you don't get to see the consequences of your decisions? This whole series has been built upon everyone being able to make their own Cmdr. Shepard and making their own decisions and seeing the consequences. The ending is unnacceptable in it's current state.

#2646
Cypher333

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Dear Jessica,

I must say I loved every moments of the game, it’s exactly what I was expecting and you have done an exceptional job, until the end of course, until the reaper beam blow me on earth, there is nothing to change until that point, or may be rebuilding the Normandy interior little by little would have been nice, but maybe later.

First thing I don’t like is the reaper/A.I god motivation, destroying all the organic life form so they will not create synthetic life form that will destroy them…hum... For me the reaper are coming to collect all organic forms and use them as a ressource to evolve and become stronger, cycle by cycle.

But what is disturbing me the most in the endings are:
  • The incoherence (Normandy fleeing the battle and crashing nowhere, squadmates killed by the reaper beam and then seeing then getting out of the Normandy…).
  • The fact that there is always a feeling of complete failure (mass relays destroyed…).
  • The felling of unaccomplishement (no final boss, no final “gun” battle, plot holes, what happen to the galaxy ? What are the consequences of our final choices? We need a debrief even If shepherd is dead! ).
For me the indoctrination theory is the best and what I would like to see when shepherd wake up is fighting a true trilogy end boss, like harbinger, I imagine shepherd destroying it from the inside, before going to the catalyst and release a shock wave who destroy only the reaper and not the mass relays, at least for one of the choice.
I am ok with shepherd dying but that should just be an option, we should be able to choose an end where he can live even if this choice has a bad impact on the galaxy.
I was not expecting 16 or 17 similar endings but 2 or 3 very different!

This video to reflect my thoughts:

And this one to reflect how I feel:

Modifié par Cypher333, 18 mars 2012 - 10:29 .


#2647
Jackal7713

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Beef Swellings wrote...

DO NOT CAVE TO PEOPLE ASKING FOR A HAPPY ENDING.

A heroes journey with strong themes of self sacrifice does not lend itself well to an ending in which the hero survives. An ending that makes sense, has some form of catharsis and retains the themes of choice, defiance in the face of overwhelming odds, unity, etc, would be the right way to go if you guys are entertaining the idea of further endings. Furthermore, Quarian and Geth Alliance screws the logic of the ending so completely that I am still, a week later, shocked that no one on the writing team saw this contradiction. Otherwise, some general bug fixing with the animation and odd pauses during dialogue would be nice. Great game, barring the ending really.

AGAIN

HAPPY ENDING, NO
CATHARTIC ENDING, YES

DEUS EX MACHINA AND SHALLOW MYSTICISM, NO
ENDING THAT MAKES SENSE AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE THEMES OF THE SERIES, YES

If you don't want the happy ending path then don't choose it.  But let others have the choice.Also, it would be better then the grimdark RGB via star kid ending.

#2648
XTiferethX

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Beef Swellings wrote...

DO NOT CAVE TO PEOPLE ASKING FOR A HAPPY ENDING.

A heroes journey with strong themes of self sacrifice does not lend itself well to an ending in which the hero survives. An ending that makes sense, has some form of catharsis and retains the themes of choice, defiance in the face of overwhelming odds, unity, etc, would be the right way to go if you guys are entertaining the idea of further endings. Furthermore, Quarian and Geth Alliance screws the logic of the ending so completely that I am still, a week later, shocked that no one on the writing team saw this contradiction. Otherwise, some general bug fixing with the animation and odd pauses during dialogue would be nice. Great game, barring the ending really.

AGAIN

HAPPY ENDING, NO
CATHARTIC ENDING, YES

DEUS EX MACHINA AND SHALLOW MYSTICISM, NO
ENDING THAT MAKES SENSE AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE THEMES OF THE SERIES, YES


You should be able to choose if you want a happy or sad ending in the game. For me I want a happy one. But most important I want an ending that makes sense.

#2649
Ingu

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Personally, I think no matter what, Shepherd should have (had?) a little ramble at the very end of the game a la Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which summarises his/her actions, why he/she did what he did, which addresses his/her origin, backstory, and paragon/renegade ratio.

It would flesh out and truly humanise the character so much more. Shepherd never really had his/her own voice throughout the games, always reactive, no-nonsense being forced into new situations with no room for failure, only ever doing what's right. But since this isn't DA:O, and Shepherd is being portrayed as someone with his/her own thoughts, words, and feelings on his/her experiences, and it would be fantastic for that to be both addressed and expressed at the end.

That and epilogues are always good. Private Messages don't suffice in terms of closure. What DA:O had, in this sense, was fantastic.

#2650
Moirai

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Concise bulletpointed lists, people.

They know we don't like the ending already. Telling them that again here is just going to bog down any chance of us getting a 'fix'. So can we skip the, 'I don't like the ending, please fix it.' posts.

Also, a lot of people are getting bogged down it chit-chat and arguing. That also is bloating the thread. Arguments and discussion can take place elsewhere, if that's what people want to do. The point of this thread it to communicate with Jessica and Casey, and ONLY Jessica and Casey.

I would like a fix for the ending too, guys. Sometime this year would be nice. But at this rate we're going to have a thousand pages of nonsense and about ten with any clear concise info that is going to be of practical use to them.

Modifié par Moirai, 18 mars 2012 - 10:45 .