7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Aslanasadi]

meonlyred wrote...

I have several concerns with ME3. Let me start off by saying that I loved this game. It has improved in leagues since ME1. And for 95% of the game I was beyond happy with.  While some things are nigh perfect others are just completely forgotten or seem done in a hurry.

The ending: I know most will have discussed this in length but here is my word on it. One thing that Mass Effect has set its self a part from is having tragic endings. While the game can take on dark tones, it always seemed to rise above that. If you work hard enough, if you talk to enough people, if you collect enough points, Shepard will somehow manage to come through. There is light at the end of the tunnel. With the current ending there is no light, no hope, not satisfaction that those who Shepard leaves behind will face anything but a horrible death. The turians and quarians will starve to death stranded on Earth, as will Garrus and Tali. The krogan and rachni (if they are cured/alive in game) will over populate Earth which probably is suffering in resources from the war. The crew who were on the Normandy might manage to live for a time. But with no way off that planet and only the resources on the Normandy they will face death by disease, wild life, etc. The implications of this ending are incredibly unpleasant. And it doesn’t seem like anything you do will make it better in the least. Sure you have the minor changes of it the Earth is destroyed, devastated, or left as it was. But this ending would seem to fit more as the very bad ending, if you completely fail at playing this game. The equivalent of Shepard and all the crew dying at the end of ME2. This ending has pretty much robbed my desire to do another playthrough. Or a playthrough on any of my other characters. Which is saying a lot. As much as I loved what I seen, it all seems pointless when I think about the fate I face in the end. I’m with a lot of people in the hopes that the ending is a hallucination, a dream, or indoctrination. Which is really bad when you think about it, I hate the ending so much that I don’t want it to be real at all.

Plot holes: While a few can be found in the main game, such as Samara tells Shepard that there are only 3 Ardat-Yakshi in the galaxy, her daughters Falere, Rila, and Morinth in ME2. ME3 implies that there are many more in the Monastery. But whatever, I can let that slide. It’s the ending that drops almost nothing but plot holes. Where did your squad mates go when Hammer is running to the beam? How did they suddenly teleport to the Normandy? When the mass relays all explode, shouldn’t Earth and any system near them also be destroyed like the Balak system? This is something that is even touched on in the beginning of the game. Did the entire Normandy crew turn coward and jump through Sol’s relay BEFORE Shepard even made the color choice? If they didn’t jump through the relay then what planet are they on? There are no planets within FTL distance. And please for the love of God, don’t say the blast chasing them was a worm hole or something like that. I think that would be an even worse fate then being stranded on a planet that someone might be able to reach by way of FTL.

The mistreating of ME2 characters/romances: While Thane’s interaction with my Shepards who did not romance is acceptable, what little there is, is unacceptable for Femshep’s who romanced him. There is an extremely awkward make out scene in the middle of a hospital waiting room and a handful of times he will refer to Shepard as Siha and that are it. Loyal Thanemancers can sum up their entire romance with Thane into about 10 minutes. There is no Paramour achievement, no longing look at Thane’s picture as there was with Tali, nor does anyone give their condolences for losing her lover. In fact Shepard seems more concerned with the wellbeing of the Vimire Survivor. Which is again fine for a friend-zone Thane but not for a romance.

And Jacob, really? Really? I understand he isn’t the most popular character but there are people who romanced him and they do not deserve that. I don’t even know what to say about this level of character assassination. Apparently, I was actually spoiled about this when the script leaked. I honestly thought it was a fake troll spoiler. Some friends and I had even joked about how out of character it was for Jacob, that he would find someone else while Shepard was alive and have an intimate relationship that results in a child.

There is no achievement for staying with your ME2 romance, not romance scene, and at very best a handful of conversations. This is kind of the same thing that Virmire survivor romances and Liaramances faced in ME2 only with no hope of a third game. Why couldn’t there have been at least a romance scene and the ability to visit them for more dialogue, such as visiting the Virmire survivor in the hospital?

Mostly Nitpicking.

Femshep romances: If Kaidan is dead in the playthrough and Shepard did not romance Garrus in ME2. She is SOL for any straight romances. While I have nothing fundamentally wrong with this, it doesn’t seem fair when Manshep has Diana Allers, ‘new’ Liara romances, ‘new’ Ashley/Kaidan, or Cortez and Femshep has Samantha Traynor, Allers, or Liara, if Kaidan is dead.

Auto dialogue and dialogue choices:  I miss the neutral dialogue. While I’m sure stats show that most people pick either top or bottom options. They were always a nice alternative. Also there is simply way to much auto dialogue. Though it does help conversations flow smoother, it almost destroys the role playing value. It felt like I wasn’t playing the RPG setting of the game at all. 

Missing NPCs: Whatever happened to Toombs, Talitha, Finch, Major Kyle, the serial killer from Jack’s recruitment mission, and many others? There seem to be a lot of people you meet throughout the other games who seem at least semi important who just disappear.

The Mission Journal: is confusing. There is nothing letting you know if you have collected random artifact for random NPC. The only way you know you found it is if you have an outstanding memory or run through every inch of the Citadel trying to find the NPC who want blah blah from planet blank. I think half my playthrough was spent trekking through the Citadel over and over again. And the scanning, you are either the luckiest bastard in the world to happen to find which planet has random artifact is on or you have to have the game guide. Scanning is very unforgiving, you scan most systems only twice and then the Reapers are after you.

What meonlyred said, tells pretty much the same I feel about the game.

[Sorael.A]

I think I know what one of the major problems is:

The ending feels like it tries to capture Mass Effect in a way that it will never be forgotten, it will never end, and we are left still thinking about it in a forever immortalized standstill of what could have been. The ending isn't definitive or addresses anything specifically for a reason because then it destroys all possibilities and the illusion of it being a living universe that exists in us. It feels so much like you wanted us to imagine how WE would want it to end because you didn't know of a way to end it for us or yourselves.

And I can definitely see why you guys would want to end on that note but the problem being is that this is a trilogy and it's been building up to this moment. When I read the line "It's about the journey and not the destination" that Mac had left us, I just knew that the ending was going to be sad or impressionable in some way that we wouldn't forget anytime soon. But you know, that statement is still right but just not in this case. This would have been fine IF this was the first game and the sequels to come pick up after it but it's not.  I also wonder if the ending was so abrupt because of the marketing for "You can play this without playing the others." so you don't feel pressured into having to start from square one.

I know you guys want to keep the Mass Effect universe alive but this isn't the right way, It's instead alienating people and driving them away. You can still achieve these things but not in this way...it can't just be

Destroy -> peace for a time but death of synthetic life -> pan to your crew getting stranded -> pan to shepard possibly being alive -> Credits
Synthesis ->Peace confirmed ->crew stranded ->credits
Control -> ambigious state -> crew stranded ->credits

I know it's the end of Shepard's story and it makes me wonder if you want it to be this way for ME4 picking up after this with a new main character but still, it can't be neglected like this. I literally can't imagine why you would end it this way without planning something, like I said, I understand why you wanted to do it but not why you DID do it unless there was something else you were going to do..

Really you should go with the indoctrination plan and do something similar to the flowchart that's been quoted a couple of times on here. It would make the most sense and there are already a lot of people convinced and pleased with it.

Modifié par Sorael.A, 18 mars 2012 - 10:55 .

[Killer3000ad]

YOu want some feedback? How about the issue of who is the minority/majority?
What people don't realize is that the forums are a good indication of the larger audience and polls conducted here are quite a good sample. Example, the infamous FemShep facebook poll last year. The facebook poll had about 73,744 total likes. Meanwhile a separate BSN poll was run by the community which had 2178 votes.

Facebook poll http://www.facebook....035.85811091644
FemShep 1:8047 = 10.9%
FemShep 2:5355 = 7.3%
FemShep 3:11447 = 15.5 %
FemShep 4:13266 = 18%
FemShep 5:31931 = 43.3 %
FemShep 6:3698 = 5%

Now look at the BSN poll
http://social.biowar...31/polls/22498/
FemShep 1= 14%
FemShep 2= 8%
FemShep 3= 12 %
FemShep 4= 17%
FemShep 5= 42%
FemShep 6= 7%

See how close the numbers match? That the BSN poll with only 2178 votes closely followed the facebook poll with 73,744 likes. Now take a look at the BSN polls on the endings http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ and an outside poll conducted at http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/

The numbers speak for themselves. So stop calling us 'some' or the minority. The fact of the matter is, based on these numbers, the ones who like the ending are in the clear minority, a very MINOR MINORITY!

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 18 mars 2012 - 10:49 .

[Deventh]

Beef Swellings wrote...

DO NOT CAVE TO PEOPLE ASKING FOR A HAPPY ENDING.

A heroes journey with strong themes of self sacrifice does not lend itself well to an ending in which the hero survives. An ending that makes sense, has some form of catharsis and retains the themes of choice, defiance in the face of overwhelming odds, unity, etc, would be the right way to go if you guys are entertaining the idea of further endings. Furthermore, Quarian and Geth Alliance screws the logic of the ending so completely that I am still, a week later, shocked that no one on the writing team saw this contradiction. Otherwise, some general bug fixing with the animation and odd pauses during dialogue would be nice. Great game, barring the ending really.

AGAIN

HAPPY ENDING, NO
CATHARTIC ENDING, YES

DEUS EX MACHINA AND SHALLOW MYSTICISM, NO
ENDING THAT MAKES SENSE AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE THEMES OF THE SERIES, YES

People like you make me sick, seriously sick. I bet you want even your own thread, hell i bet you even want to create the Mass Effect universe. We (the people wanting happy ending) never ever said anything against the ones who want sad ending. It's all about the player choice and how well he has done in the 3 games. If you have done everything right in all 3 games then why not survive in ME3 and be with your LI? You can't just bash other people opinions with your own. It makes you really sad.

[michael99887766]

Beef Swellings wrote...

DO NOT CAVE TO PEOPLE ASKING FOR A HAPPY ENDING.

A heroes journey with strong themes of self sacrifice does not lend itself well to an ending in which the hero survives. An ending that makes sense, has some form of catharsis and retains the themes of choice, defiance in the face of overwhelming odds, unity, etc, would be the right way to go if you guys are entertaining the idea of further endings. Furthermore, Quarian and Geth Alliance screws the logic of the ending so completely that I am still, a week later, shocked that no one on the writing team saw this contradiction. Otherwise, some general bug fixing with the animation and odd pauses during dialogue would be nice. Great game, barring the ending really.

AGAIN

HAPPY ENDING, NO
CATHARTIC ENDING, YES

DEUS EX MACHINA AND SHALLOW MYSTICISM, NO
ENDING THAT MAKES SENSE AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE THEMES OF THE SERIES, YES

SINGLE ENDING, NO
VARIOUS ENDINGS DEPENDING ON ASSETS/CHOICES, YES

Plenty of wonderful works of fiction (off the top of my head, the Lord of the Rings trilogy and Harry Potter series) pull off pretty happy endings without comprimising quality or coherence. But in a book or film, I can accept it if the writer goes with their artistic feeling and has a sad ending. In a game series as interactive as ME3, with such skilled writers and producers, numerous endings should be provided.

[hanar05]

Every suggestion is just as valid as the next.

For some people, characters are important to them.

If someone's opinion on the game is severely altered because of what they feel is unfair treatment of a character they are attached to (especially when other character's were treated more consistantly and equally) they have every right to want this changed.

This thread is for constructive feedback, not specifically the ending, which I think we can all agree needs to be changed the most. But a lot of people have already mentioned the end, and if others have nothing more to add on that matter, they can mention other things they think needs work too.

But we are not here to argue with each other. If we can continue to post ideas without remarking on how other members are wrong, I think that would be best for everyone.

To add more to this discussion, I would really like to mention how much loved it when past events were brought up in casual banter. My Shepard mentioning that she was from also from a colony when they were on Eden Prime, Tali mentioning that she was in the vents during the suicide mission, Hackett telling my Shepard he doesn't need another hero like on Elysium. Little details like this meant a lot to me.
I also really loved Javik. I found him very fascinating and I thoroughly enjoyed having him in my squad on Thessia. I enjoyed seeing a more "human" side to Shepard, this particually shone through after their failure on Thessia.
I loved the part when Liara was making a collection of information for future generations, that was a nice touch!
The combat was perfect, nothing I would change about it. Loved the addition of new melee.
A lot of really pretty scenes! And really epic ones too! That thresher maw taking out a reaper was fantastic!
Soundtrack is amazing!!!

I think the things that bother me most about the game though are:

Firstly, the ending.

I didn't feel at all satisfied with that ending. I felt I was suddenly pushed into choosing these options and that didn't make a lot of sense. Shepard was rather accepting of it, I would expect Shepard to defy the being who has just sent reapers to destroy the galaxy as we know it.

Unless of course, the indoctrination theory is true, which I do hope for. It makes a lot more sense and would give the game a better opportunity to end on a high note, if this is further explored.
Not necessarily a happy ending, just something that makes us feel like we've accomplished something, rather than stranding the entire galaxy and possibly destroying all technology or merging everyone with synthetics etc.

Then there's the fact that our choices hardly make a difference to the conclusion. What little difference there is is hardly worth it. Hundreds of hours of gameplay all summed up into a 10 minute cutscene that hardly varied.
A big let down for a series that begun so strong!

Secondly, ME2 squadmates.

Yes, characters are a pretty big deal to me. They help motivate the story, they have interesting stories to tell, they give you different perspectives on life. Deep characters are one of Mass Effect's strengths, and without them, Mass Effect is just not the same.
That's why it was so shocking when I felt some of the deepest characters in the series were suddenly forced to cameo roles.
One of Mass Effect 2's strengths was it's characters. Apart from Wrex, all of my favourite squadmates are from Mass Effect 2. I grew attached to them and I never felt like by the end of the game, their story with Shepard was over. They had more to give to this universe, there was a lot of opportunity for that.
Liara, Garrus, Tali, Kaidan/Ashley, though not my favourites, all are wonderful characters. But they are not the only ones with potential. Potential to be a great ally, to be a good friend, to be pivotal character in a major plot development.
Without rewriting the entire game, giving these characters more content would be wonderful to see, for me and a lot of others.

Thirdly, the journal.

Entirely too vague. I couldn't understand what was required of me half the time. A more detailed journal would help this a lot. Something like Mass Effect 2 when you could view the individual parts of the mission and where to find them would be perfect!


Apart from a few inconsistencies (such as the geth suddenly wanting to become individuals? Isn't that a complete turn around to what they wanted in ME2? Complete unity?) and a lot of animation errors, nothing else major comes to mind.

Thanks again for your time and thank you BioWare for creating this universe.
I wouldn't be typing this if I wasn't passionate about Mass Effect. I care about it's future.

[Moirai]

I give up. Hopefully a moderator will turn up and organise this jumble...

[Remington]

XTiferethX wrote...

We need the ending fixed so we can enjoy playing the game

PLUS: THE ENDING DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE!!!!!!

You can easily fix this issue by adding some more material like a Baldur's Gate 2 - epilogue to the actual ending, telling what happens to the main characters and the galaxy. 

Right now it feels like a puzzle with pieces that won't fit together What I could gather from these pieces: You left a universe without hope. Not only the homeworlds are smoking ruins, now the citadelians have all been killed by the reapers, and the relays are destroyed. Where is the perfect ending you promised in that? You destroyed everything the player has been fighting for.

Modifié par Remington, 18 mars 2012 - 10:53 .

[Law8519]

First I musy say what an honour it has been to play the Mass Effect series. Beautiful story, characters, settings it is obvious what a monumental job the Bioware team has had.
Throughout the series I have laughed and cried felt joy and sadness but always felt fulfilled.
When I pre-ordered my collectors edition of Mass Effect 3 I was so excited this is the game I had been waiting for!
I have to say I did look online at the ending(s) before the game came out in the UK I had to know what happened so that I would be completely prepared. I was devastated by what I found. All of it equals in death? With one ending with the slight possibility that Shepard lives? Is that it? I thought maybe if i played the game I would find a different ending but by the time I got to the moments before the final battle I turned off my Xbox. I could not bring myself to put Shepard through this nonsensical ending. I haven't played the game since or the other Mass Effect games or any other games for that matter.
You have lots of people here rtelling you about indoctrination endings and other theorys that could be used to give us a proper ending. I am not here for that. I am here because I want a good ending for my Shepard the character I have invested in for many years. But I do think you should listen to people's suggestions some of them are fantastic and would work! My Shepard made good friends and found love with Kaiden she was brave and smart and cared about what happened to the universe. So that is why i think this ending you gave us is completely unworthy of her. Would she have listened to the god child? No she would never be swayed by that nonsense she would tell it to go to hell and continue the fight.
Please Bioware give me my ending my Shepard's ending. where she bravely fights destroys the reapers and reunites with her friends and Kaiden. let her have a bit of hapiness after all she has been through.
Give us what you promised us. A choice.
Thankyou for your time
Claire
UK
@RetakeME3

[Adsinjapan]

 I'm going to try and keep this as simple as possible, because to be honest, I think this can all be sorted with only the fewest of adjustments.

The one thing that needs to be resolved without any question, is solid VARYING endings.
Many people have said that they saw Shepherd dying as a natural progression to the story. I didn't.
For all of the tone of ME3, I still wanted my Shepherd to come out on top, and keep his promises to his LI and his commrades. Do I want a fuzzy ending, no. Suffering plays a part in the Cathartic resolution of things.
But I think that should be covered for those who didn't see the end of M.E. being the end of Shepherd.

Please, for the love of god, give those people who wanted an Indoctrination ending what they asked for.
I'm not one of them, but this probably won't end unless you cater to that.
If you DO go along with this ending idea, then I at least want Shepherd to be able to break free of the Indoctrination without him topping himself.

Next. Get rid of the bloody Starchild! I felt no emotional attachment to him and he was more of a distraction to the game than anything else. Keep the dream sequences of the kid, I don't mind. But don't let his glowing little face be the last thing I see before the end credits.

All of the allies you've collected along the way should have their own closing moment. Everyone was mentioned in DA:O, I don't see why the characters in ME3 can't get their own 90 seconds at the end.

If at all possible, try and introduce a solid Final Boss. A lot of people have asked for some serious screen time for Harbinger, and as a natural progression of the game, it only makes sense.
Keep TIM as he is, I think that bit was pretty well done, there should just be something else beyond him.

I'd like to get a little bit more info on the Reapers. If you're going to end it with ME3, it doesn't make sense to keep everything from everyone unless you're going to start a new saga later. If you do, then what's the point of learning about the Reapers if you're only going to stop them at the end of ME3 right?

I don't know what else to add to this, but I'm sure I'll edit it later. I'm one of the manyVerbal MAJORITY who want a satisfying conclusion, so I'm sure the've said a ton of things that I'd probably want covered.

What I've came up with here, is more out of personal preference really, but maybe a few think  the same way as me.
Well that's it.

[Maias227]

 
Okay here's my thoughts on the game and what could be improved.

Pros

• I really like how well designed many of the mobs were. Going up against brutes, banshees etc. really gives you a run for the money.
• I loved how many of your previous interactions showed up again and how your calls even in Mass Effect 3 has dire consequences (like Kelly Chambers, boy I screwed the pooch there)
• The atmosphere was perfect, the music and the dark gritty style really made you feel like you were at war and everyone must do their part.
• The war assets scoreboard was pretty cool and I liked how many different things you ended up using.
• The system with weight vs. power regeneration works really well and makes it possible for you to take the weapons you want.
• I actually really liked the role multiplayer had and its surprisingly fun.

Cons, room for improvement

• I would have loved to see some of the war assets in action during the big battle. I mean when reading the description about the fighting Elcor I badly wanted to see them action but atlas they remain shrouded in mystery. All in all I would loved more fighting scenes towards the end.
• Yeah I would have liked an aftermath after the big badaboom choice.
• I miss hacking doorways and the other assorted minigames!
• Yeah as mentioned the journal system could be done better, I ended up being pretty confused about where I was in a quest.
• I don't really like how most the sidequests you get are gotten from eavesdropping on people's conversation. It feels kinda tacky and sometimes I would miss crucial lines of dialoge because other bystanders dialoge would fire off. So please when you take a quest please do it through actual dialoges.
• There were a few glitches and bugs, but the only serious issue I had was the Origin release day checker which made sure I couldn't play my game until two days after the official release day in my country, thats annoying.
• I would liked a chance to communicate to earth's defenderes before the final battle, Sherperd is asked and while even seeing a communication specialist he doesn't broadcast any message of support for the many men and women dying the streets fighting the reapers.

[PayneUK]

Rather then post my 2634 word essey which I can't bring myself to subject on some poor Bioware employee I'll just echo what many others have said.

I don't want the end to Mass Effect 3 to be a happy one, I want the end to have the OPTION for it. The brilliance of the series up until the last 10 minutes of the game was that it allowed for this. You wanted your 'bitter-sweet' ending and others want 'fluffy bunny's and rainbows', you could have had both and everything in-between and no-one would complain and would be in total line with what I thought was your goal for Mass Effect.

I can personally deal with a few plot holes or continuity errors but to have so much choice for 120 hours and then be railroaded into something that ends my experience in a way that has no relevance to my character and choices really killed the immersion of the game any a lot of its replay value

[Chassthemighty]

Something to improve the ME2 romances in ME3 please? I know Jacob and Thane fans didn't get what they expected on the FemShep side, and i'm not sure how Jack or Tali fans feel about the issue, but I know i'm not satisfied with what I got with Miranda. A few spotty meetings throughout the game, and very little actual romance. And that sex scene? That was.. I don't even know.

[Silasqtx]

 I'll divide my "review/feedback" in various parts.

All these opinions are mine, they do not reflect the community

########## Multi Player ##########


It's compelling and I personally like it a lot. There's just one thing:

• Banshees/Phantoms can oneshot you randomly ruining the gameplay. It would be better if you can cheat death once.

######### Single Player ##########

I personally enjoyed the SP a lot. It's the best ME game so far. Adrenalinic combat and a compelling story full of memorable moments. It's awesome until, as we all know, the end sequence. I'll talk about it later. Issues are divided between technical and artistical.



Single Player Technical Issues:

• Journal became quite useless due to the lack of information during quests (ME2 journal was perfect imo).
• "some" textures can be improved (PC only)
• Most sidequests are fetch things and in the long run can bore
• Sound Volume is low, no matter what. Don't know why.

Single Player Artistical Issues:

• The ending.
• No, really, the ending.
• Some cutscenes CAN be awfully improved.
• Sometimes wacky animations (some facial animations too: they don't always reflect the tone given by the voice actors)

Wishlist:

• A better ending.
• More moments with your squad, even more with your LI.
• Interactive poker table in the lounge :3
• More N7-like assignments.

######### Ending ###########

I personally chose Destroy, TIM shot himself and Shepard lived in my first playthrough (yay.)

bwFex wrote... 
Turn the Star-Child scene from absurd to awesome by using the Indoctrination Theory we've made for you.

The biggest complaint your fans have is that the final five minutes of the game is absurd. It's disjointed, it doesn't fit within the ME universe, and it simply feels like a non-sequitor tacked on at the last minute because you didn't have enough time to finish the ending you really wanted to do.

Fortunately, your wonderful fans have solved this problem for you, because you already did most of the hard work for us. You have hints and clues of Shepard's subtle indoctrination all throughout the game, finally culminating in what many of your gamers assumed to be the obvious truth: the final fifteen minutes of the game were a hallucination sparked by Harbinger trying to indoctrinate Shepard.

If you're not familiar with the theory, you should be. It's all over the internet. Green option means you were indoctrinated (with the same lie used on Saren). Blue option means you were indoctrinated (with the same lie used on TIM). Red option with low EMS means you rejected the indoctrination, but were killed out in the real world because your ground forces were too weak to protect the Conduit while they looked for you. Red option with high EMS means you rejected the indoctrination attempt, and your ground military found you and rescued you after you woke up.

After that, you just have to give us the real ending.

Make our War Assets really matter.

I love the war assets concept. I think it's brilliant. I think it's an elegant way to handle a massive amount of tiny little things all adding up into a giant force. The problem is that right now, there is absolutely zero indication to the user what their war assets were actually good for. Even if they go online and look it up, it still makes zero sense. Why does my army strength change the effects of the non-sequitor space magic? Isn't red space magic going to destroy earth whether I have ten ships in orbit or fifty? It just doesn't make sense.

Instead, you need to use the War Assets in a way that makes sense. Obviously, the "perfect world" solution would be to actually show each individual asset in action, or to even let us decide where each asset is assigned (this was awesome, in the final battle of Dragon Age: Origins). But obviously, there is way, way more content in ME3 than in DA:O. And that's fine. We're not expecting that much out of you.

We just need to know that that cumulative number really makes a difference. Personally, I liked my idea of using the War Asset rating to establish time limits and difficulty levels for the final boss - but you'll see that in a little bit when I post my fanfic.

Give us an epilogue slideshow, exactly how you did it in Dragon Age: Origins.

We already saw the conclusions of a lot of story arcs throughout the course of the game. You don't have to give us a lot more closure in terms of content: it's just a psychological thing. We need to have that catharsis at the very end of the game, as credits are rolling, so that we can see that all of our choices had a real impact.

"Show, don't tell" is a great rule, but only if you show us everything. That's obviously impractical here. A slideshow will be fine. One slide for each race/species, one for each surviving squadmate and major NPC, and maybe a couple for any of the more prominent minor NPCs (Aria, Kelly Chambers, Conrad Verner).

Give us a funeral scene, so we can see exactly who lived and who died.

This was one of the most frustrating things for a lot of people, besides the ridiculous ending. Not knowing everyone's fate was very difficult to deal with. Sure, you want to leave a little bit of mystery, but there's a point where you're giving out so little information it's ridiculous. You can't possibly have expected people to be satisfied with what you gave us.

Leave our galaxy in a state where it can be reasonably repaired.

Sacrifice is one thing. Cities can be rebuilt. Heroes can be remembered. Cultures can regrow.

I'm even okay with the destruction of the Citadel. Sure, it was one of the coolest structures in the franchise, but it's not the defining element of the Mass Effect universe. Personally, I'd rather spend my time on Omega.

The destruction of the Mass Relays - even if you ignore the fact that their energy release should have wiped out the entire star system - is not something we can rebuild. It took the Protheans, at the peak of their evolution and technological prowess, an exorberant amount of time, money, and research to build a *single* uni-directional relay. Given the state of our galaxy in the current ending, there's a good chance we'd slip into a technological and industrial dark age for so long that we'd forget the relays ever existed - let alone start rebuilding them.

Success should be an option, even if we have to work our asses off for it.

In my opinion, Mass Effect 2 did this wonderfully. Failure was a very real option, but so was success. If you had a perfect gameplan, and you put a massive amount of work into it, you could walk off of that Collector ship with minimal losses to the people you cared about most: yourself and your squadmates.

I know sacrifice is an important theme, and if people need to die for meaningful reasons (Mordin for the genophage, Thane to protect the Council), that's fine. But don't go around killing people just for the sake of killing them. Every single one of the endings currently in ME3, if interpreted literally, feels like a forced failure. There's a difference between giving the player a hard choice (do I want to sacrifice the Sol system to save the rest of the galaxy?) and making every choice feel like an abysmal defeat.

Forced failure is not fun.

It's one thing to fail because I messed up. But when I am doomed to fail, it makes it very hard to really care about what I'm doing.

Shepard should die in almost all situations. His story was built for sacrifice. But it should not be impossible for him to live, with a near-perfectly-played game, even if it requires us to go back and play every single side-quest of ME1/ME2.





Example

Earlier this week, I wrote up an example of what I'd like to see in a fanfic/prediction. It was well-received on Reddit, so I figure I'll share it here. Enjoy.

---------------------------

First, the current "endings" are canon, and remain in the game. They simply aren't what they seem to be. The only change to them is we ditch the Normandy crash and the jungle scene, because those simply don't make any sense, even in the context of a hallucination.


If you pick blue/green, or if your EMS is low, everything stays the same. That's how the game ends for you, and you're left scratching your head.


If you pick red and your EMS is high, these events happen after the "rubble" scene.


Part 1 - London: Wake Up

Anderson sees you struggling to get up and runs over to help you. He tells you that you've been out for about an hour, and that Hammer team has set up a perimeter around the beam while search parties looked for you. He says that after the laser knocked you out, Harbinger's lights turned bright green and blue, and he stopped attacking. Shortly before you woke up, Harbinger's lights turned red and he started shaking violently, then flew away.

You meet up with your squadmates, and fight off reaper ground forces to get to the medbay, during which time you will explain that you had a vision after the blast, and you think it was indoctrination. You have a tense conversation with your squad, and ask them if they have what it takes to kill you, if it comes down to that.

Before they can answer, you're interrupted by Hackett over the radio.

"Good job with the Citadel, Hammer Team - the arms are opening."

Shepard replies, "We aren't in the Citadel, Hackett. Something's not right."

Hackett barks, "Well then you'd better get in there and figure out what's going on, Commander, because the Crucible is almost in position and we can't hold off the Reapers for long."

Harbinger swoops back down to Earth. The horn blares, and you can feel him raping your mind. The dark tendrils you had during the TIM vision reappear. You yell at Joker for some sort of backup. The Normandy swoops in and lays down heavy fire just as Harbinger is starting to shoop-da-woop, causing Harbinger to retreat. You, your squad, and Anderson use the opportunity to run into the portal. "Time to find out what's really on the other side," you say.

Part 2 - Inside the Keepers' Lair

Inside, you find yourself in a Keeper tunnel, just like in the vision, but there are no human bodies. Instead, you find dead Keepers, a couple of dead husks, and a single dead Cerberus soldier, who appears to be mutated or partially husked. Your squadmates point out the disfiguration. "Something's not right."

You proceed to the end of the tunnel, and open the door. It opens up to a massive room similar to the circular chasm from the indoctrination vision, but filled with Cerberus lab equipment, Cerberus soldiers, and holding cells containing Reaper units - very similar to the lab equipment on Sanctuary. At the far end of the room, TIM appears to be fiddling with a console.

"Shepard, good. I'm glad you could finally join us."

"When you blew up my lab on Sanctuary, we lost a lot of valuable data. Fortunately, the Reapers have been kind enough to provide us with a new base of operations. You see, they want to see humanity succeed as much as I do."

"Unfortunately, it appears that we were wrong about the Citadel. It may be part of the Catalyst, but it is not the only missing piece. We should be able to activate the Crucible from here, but it simply isn't responding. I'm beginning to think we might need you for that."

Shepard enters dialogue with TIM, and begins to suspect that the reason he can't activate the Crucible is because he is indoctrinated. Why else would the reapers bring him here? They don't want to be controlled - they're using TIM to stop Shepard from reaching the Crucible controls.

A renegade conversation leads to a fight. The paragon conversation seems to have an effect on TIM, and he slowly starts to admit he's indoctrinated and pulls his pistol to his own head, but he snaps out of it and orders his men to attack. As the fight begins, he retreats to a glass safe room overlooking the lab, dodging a few shots from Shepard along the way.

You, Anderson, and your squad start wiping out the Cerberus forces in the room. As the fight progresses, TIM begins opening up the containment cells, releasing Reaper forces who begin attacking you alongside the Cerberus troops, including a new type of unit: the mutated Cerberus soldier, like you saw out in the Keeper hallway.

While you are fighting, TIM tries to argue with you, rationalizing his experiments here, claiming that he was too close to controlling the Reapers to give up now. You try to explain that the Reapers are just using him, but he stutters and stammers, refusing to accept it.

Part 3 - The Final Battle

As the last few containment cells open up and you're down to just a few remaining enemy forces, a short cutscene begins. TIM seems to finally crack. He admits indoctrination, just like Matriarch Benezia on Noveria.
He tells you that the Crucible is a failsafe designed with a unique trigger: a test of will against indoctrination. The Catalyst is someone who can resist that indoctrination.

The Reapers are mindbanks of one of the very first spacefaring species in our galaxy, their solution to overpopulation. When the ancient species was building the reapers, some of their scientists felt that their plan to farm/harvest new life to sustain their own race was wrong, and designed a weapon that exploited the Reapers' indoctrination code, so that once a race had evolved with the readiness to face the Reapers and a will strong enough to resist indoctrination, they would be able to fight for their place in the galaxy.
TIM starts to spasm, choking and distorting in unnatural shapes. When he finally stops, he stands up slowly, his eyes glowing red, and speaks to you in Harbinger's voice.

"You have resisted us, but this one is ours. We will direct your demise *personally*."
In an explosion of flesh and steel, the illusive man bursts into a mechanical monstrosity. The final battle commences.

You are given a time limit based on your effective military score. If time runs out, you see a cutscene showing the reapers overwhelming your allied space forces, killing a race/fleet. One of the reapers fires a beam towards the crucible that kills one of the squadmates you have with you. The timer restarts, but is much shorter this time. If you fail again, another race/fleet is overwhelmed, and Anderson and your other squadmate are beamed. The timer restarts one last time, faster still. If that one fails, the reapers completely overwhelm the crucible. Game over.
As the fight starts, radio chatter from Hammer Team tells you that some Reaper forces are breaking through and jumping into the warp beam. The final battle alternates between fighting the mutated IM and fighting waves of reaper forces coming in from the hallway behind you. The better your EMS, the less often you get Reaper waves behind you.

Part 4 - The Crucible

After you defeat the Harbinger-controlled Illusive Man, you get more radio orders from Hackett.
"Shepard, whatever you're doing in there, you need to hurry up. We can't hold these Reapers back much longer!"
Shepard races up to the terminal. It appears similar to the Prothean beacon from ME1, but is definitely not Prothean technology. He touches it.

A bright flash of light. Time appears to stop. You look around, in awe of the sight before you: ships and reapers frozen in space, lasers and torpedoes hanging motionless between them. Your squadmates tending to an injured Anderson behind you.

At this point in time, the "indoctrination trial" begins.

A voice similar to a reapers, but more patient and eloquent, perhaps female-sounding, will start to question the major decisions you've made over the course of the trilogy: from the Virmire incident to the Collector Base, to how you handled the Genophage and Quarian/Geth situation. It will try to convince you that you chose incorrectly, that you are a failure, that your race doesn't deserve to live because of the weakness you've shown.

If too many of the decisions you made are indefensible, or if your reputation is too low to select enough confident answers, you fail the indoctrination trial, and the Crucible misfires, killing you, Anderson, and your squad, blowing up the citadel, and only leaving some of the reapers alive. Two fleets/races are killed trying to finish off the remaining reapers, and you don't get the satisfaction of the Harbinger interrupt for beating the trial, seen below.

The hologram of the child from your vision appears. He speaks to you using Harbinger's voice.

"You... it cannot be you. We are superior. We are infinite. You are an accident. We are the epitome of evolution. We are eternal. How did you resist us? We-"

Renegade and Paragon interrupts both show up on screen. Shepard interrupts Harbinger with a kickass catchphrase, then presses a button on the console device. A subtle ripple bursts out from the console, like a gust of wind.

Cutscene. With time still frozen, as if in a dream, an explosion of white light pulses out from the Crucible. The explosion moves slowly, beautifully, and as it hits each reaper, you hear the sound of metal wrenching and twisting in near-silent agony. A shot of London shows the white light slowly washing over Reaper ground forces. As it hits each husk, its lights change to white, and they spark and fizzle.

The wave of light reaches the Relay. Its lights turn white, and it beams the energy out, just like in the previous visions. Pull out to the galaxy, we see the wave spreading through the mass relays, just like in each of the previous cutscenes, covering the entire galaxy. The camera cuts back to the room with Shepard, either looking out the window at the battle, still frozen in time (if he survived the Crucible), or unconscious on the ground (if he failed the Crucible).

Part 5 - Conclusion

And suddenly, everything comes back to life. The reapers explode in glorious unison. The Reaper ground forces vaporize all at once, soldiers begin cheering. We see cutscenes inside various ships that you've gathered for your armada, and Hackett calls over the radio - "You did it! Whatever you just did in there worked, Shepard. You're... you're a god damned hero."

If Shepard is still alive, he gives a speech over the radio. "We all did it. Together."

A memorial/funeral service for those who died is shown, with face placards for any of Shepard's teammates or significant NPCs who died. Thane, Mordin, Ashley/Kaidan. Many of the rest are shown in the crowd, to let the player know they're still alive.

Cut to black, credits. As the credits roll, we get a Dragon Age style epilogue slideshow, showing how each race/character still alive spends the next couple of years rebuilding or causing trouble, based on the bigger decisions you made.

After the credits roll, if Shepard has a LI, we see them standing side by side in an appropriate location (Rannoch for Tali, Thessia for Liara, etc.). If not, we see Shepard looking out over the ruins of Vancouver. Either way, Anderson walks over. "It's a hell of a thing you've done, son. What will you do now?"

Cut to black. Title menu.

^This.


Here's some handmade indoc. proof:

#### After getting shot by Harbinger #####

All you hear are whispers (dream sequence anyone?) and "there is no hope" radio chatter.
First, I tried looking around for my squadmates/Anderson but they were simply gone. THEN Anderson says that he followed me into the conduit but got "elsewhere", yet he's ahead of me. There's also ONE path to the console, but Anderson says that he got in a different tunnel.

#### The Talk with TIM #####

The whole discussion with the Illusive Man is also strange. All you hear are whispers similar to those in the dream sequences. He's controlling both you and Anderson, he forces you to shoot Anderson but he's not forcing you to kill yourself, why? Doing so he could've accomplished what he always wanted, controlling the Reapers (even if he's already controlled). That's why the Indoctrination theory gets more and more plausible. This discussion is between what you've always believed in (Anderson ---> Destroy)  and Harbinger's indoctrination, personified in the Illusive Man.

##### God Kid #####

Indoc. Theory more and more true. You overcomed Harbinger's first attempt to bend you over Control, he now materializes itself as the Kid that's haunting your dreams. He tried bending you appealing to your interest in humanity, now he bargains, giving a third, yet false, resolve: synthesis (see Saren for further explaination)


##### Extra Stuff #####

The 1M1 panel on the Citadel looks awfully similar to the Alliance Dreadnought's guns ( www.youtube.com/watch minute 2.58)



My feedback, hope it helps.

Modifié par Silasqtx, 18 mars 2012 - 11:15 .

[DonJuan2000]

SHEPARD ULTIMATE SACRIFICE TO SAVE EARTH: AN ENDING OF ME3 AND START OF ME4



The ligth beam should be connected to reapers for nutrition purposes by harvesting humans. Harbinger was connected to the light when start a mission to let it trasport a Fusion Nuclear Warhead inside it. Oh Okeer would love it !!! :DD

With Harbinger dead, Reapers Army become to suffer losses. Shepard go to orbit with Normandy and plan a coordinated attack with Admiral to Reapers, they have to assign tasks to squad members and ships ( they should have done also before Earth attack.......... ).

The Crucible its a huge Accelerator Mass Energy. With Dark Energy Reactor of cittatel, Crucible have enough power to destroy Reapers with a single huge energy beam, rathen then merely damage it like happen with the ancient Klendagon battle ( it can be developed a fascinating story about this... Javik give also some clues and so did the ME2 Damaged reaper assault ).

Plan enemy ships assault. In one of them you'll find info about a kind of 2nd Commander of the Harbinger. You begin to look for it inside the space battle but he succes to escape with some other Reapers.

This final battle with earth liberation should be the end of ME3 and the start of a possible ME4. Thats all.

In future age ( and maybe titles ) they will entitle an Accademy to Shepard and create a special military infiltration unit with the name of Shepard, with main task to fight against any Reapers threats like a kind of Jedi Order.

You can or not let Shepard survive in this task, he can make ultimate sacrifice to save the Earth and let Reapers escape and disengage from battle. Maybe for example he can sacrifice itseLf in some way to save his friends, some civilians or the whole earth from e devastating attack.
Those are just some ideas, fixed better they likely be a unforgiveble ending for ME3, conclusion of Shepard story and begin of ME4 you can count on it !

I must admit anyway, I would like to have some more stories about Shepard Just going some years in the future, something like Ezio Auditore life

Oh Space Harry Potter should be completely erased, maybe the indocrination theory will work.

But I'm dont like the human child as Harbinger illusion in the beginning..... i dont know, its your choice.

Honestly I think it work better like a real child died in the tragedy of the war, thats what I understood and “I Liked” the message.

But use indocrination theory for all the cittadel stuff.

Illusive man itself deserve a better destiny. He can been indocrtinated by reapers technology on collectors base if you save it, but anyway his history deserve much more. Honestly i thought was linked to an ancient order opposed to Reapers from centuries... but maybe he lost controls. There much more to say about ME Universe

I'm avaible for other hints if you mind, just let me know.

For that and other ideas see also my FB realted page:

https://www.facebook...379886602030228

Modifié par DonJuan2000, 18 mars 2012 - 11:09 .

[O Fenris O]

I've got to say that I enjoyed the game, it was a one of the best games I ever played. You really made it to display a war-torn galaxy, with a Citadel which really felt alive, a compelling story which is hard to find even in other media, deep characters with emotions and a charismatic hero, who isn't that plane hero we usually have to deal with. But the ending utterly dissapointed me beyond all limits.

I want closure, want to know where the Reapers come from, why they're doing this, who built the Citadel etc.?
I want to see what happens to my allies, my teammates, my LI and most importantly, what all of my choices make which contribution to the ending after almost 300 hours of playing Mass Effect. For example, killing the council in ME 1 has hardly any noticeable consequence on the actual story. Seriously? It was one major decision throughout the Mass Effect Series. Same goes for the Collector-Base.
I want Shepard to get the ending he deserves based upon his choices (which is not being dissolved in light, blowing up everything or just taking a breath under a huge pile of rubble).
To be short, I want the answers which were promised. Not just a recolored ending which is 95% the same and "closes" in just 5 minutes. This questionable storytelling starts already when the Citadel suddenly pops up in Earth's orbit without even further explanation.

For me all endings where just a shallow and frustrating experience solely to the fact that it made absolutely no point, logically and emotionally. What are the fleets supposed to do now without having an intact mass-relay? Even with the Reapers destroyed they would have won since the cycle has lost its base. Why was the Normandy flying away from Earth with only my squadmates in it who where with me just before the final run for the beam to the citadel? Where's the rest of my team etc?

What also always bothered me was the fact that despite being in a relationship the LIs are kinda acting cold when speaking to them outside of the otherwise beautifully written romance-scenes (not just the one shortly before attacking the Cerberus-HQ). A bit more of emotion would be nice.

All this ruined the (otherwise awesome) game for me and I really felt screwed over after so many years of being a huge fan of the series, anticipating each new game and buying ALL the dlc so I could have the best possible experience in Mass Effect 3 which I thought to have its climax in the ending.

Please Bioware, for all that is good and just, please fix this ending with a free dlc (whichwould be awesome if it would have the indoctrination theory as base since this actually makes sense) and give your fanbase that what we were hoping to get from the start.

Modifié par O Fenris O, 18 mars 2012 - 11:17 .

[MalexT]

Thank you for giving us an opportunity to leave constructive feedback, Bioware.
I applaud your willingness to challenge gaming paradigms and respect your creative freedom. Without the freedom to create the story and content you want, there will never be original content, only mass-pandering carbon-copies. Perhaps ME1 would never have seen the light of day, and that would have been a sad thing indeed.

What's more, I like ME3, a lot. It is technically accomplished, visually inspiring, with great value in art, cinematic direction, voice acting, and a mostly engaging and believable story.

Sadly, I am one of those who thought the end was a mess. I strongly believe this isn't just because I was so attached to Shepard and his crew that, when presented with the inevitability of their deaths, denial was always my first reaction, followed by all the other well-known emotional stages – which I think is a triumph of the story-telling in this series. I really think there were objective mistakes in the execution; so, I'm just here to say what I think went wrong, and whether or not I think it can be fixed. If it can't, hopefully it will at least help to make your next game that much better.

Much of what I have to say, good and bad, has been said before, and better. I'm thinking for instance of posts above this one, and this thread, and this summary, and more. Still, I thought I'd add my voice in my own words. My perspective is clearly limited by a single playthrough (for completeness: male adept paragon, hard difficulty, Liara romance, no From Ashes DLC). I'm going to start another one to try other choices and really make sure I didn't miss anything vital to my understanding of the plot and it really did make as little sense as it seems at
first sight, but here are my thoughts so far.

Things I thought were great: honestly, too many to list. Some highlights:

- The combat system really works quite well. Now I'm over my initial hatred of frag and smoke grenades and realise you can no longer just sit behind a wall and levitate things into oblivion, I'm convinced this
is the best of the three systems used in Mass Effect.
- Completing individual character story lines: I thought all were well written and executed. There are some characters I was more fond of than others and would have liked to see more of, but I can't say any
of them were forced to do anything out of character, in fact the opposite is true - which is remarkable.
- Romance: very well done for the parts that I've seen so far, and I am happy to see options for everyone, regardless of how mainstream they may be considered to be. I think this is a great example of BW listening to what fans do want.

Very few things were 'ok, you could do better'. A handful of bugs here and there - getting stuck on the Normandy cockpit floor, being unable to complete the Citadel refugee camp photo mission if reloading halfway through... that's it. I didn't even have a problem with any of the voice acting, though Allers might have used a bit more fleshing out character-wise and a bit less morph-wise



Things I thought were bad or terrible: the first and the last 10 minutes, especially the last; the start is quite cringe-worthy but there are 40-odd hours in which to forget it.


Regarding Casey's message:

- I would challenge the basic premise that Shepard is in a 'hopeless struggle for survival'. The entire series is built on the premise that none of what you do is entirely hopeless. The odds of success are slim, but everything you do reinforces the belief that success against impossible odds is what you're there for. The only reason to
state definitively that the struggle is hopeless is if you had some knowledge of how things turn out - for instance, because you have decided it should be that way.
I hope this doesn't sound like semantics: my point is right up to the end, you are made to feel like you have a choice, and you will probably make it somehow.

- I would challenge the basic premise that anything other than a bittersweet ending "would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way". To my recollection, there has only ever been one such decision: Virmire - and even then, it is very much out of your hands. With that exception, and possibly Jenkins, Mordin and some Shepard background stories - it is entirely possible to play through ME1, 2 and 3 without ever intentionally
leaving anyone behind, ordering anyone to their deaths, dooming entire species to extinction, etc. I accept that there are players who did make such choices intentionally; I have even done so myself on some playthroughs in order to create different levels of emotional engagement, which is one of the great strengths of the franchise; but
I stress that it is one of the central planks of Mass Effect thus far that you can, if you so wish, through great effort and determination, Do the Right Thing and Save the Day without even a shade of moral compromise or indeed any adverse consequences for anyone who could be called a Good Guy or a Buddy.
Self-sacrifice is a powerful story-telling device. Forced, unexpected self-sacrifice for unclear reasons is not. More on that, below.


Not directly regarding the message:

- The Illusive Man encounter was fine; good dialogue, mostly good options, I don't think a boss fight is necessary to conclude a game like this. I have nothing against it being a choice, but personally I like to resolve things the way you can as it stands. However, it was a mistake to hide one previous paragon/renegade check in the Mars conversation in an optional choice, so it's easy to miss something ~40 hours of gameplay earlier that will have a significant effect on the last (intelligible) encounter of the game versus the last (recognizable) antagonist. This is easy to fix; on the other hand not fixing it forces people to either make a renegade prompt or die and have to replay 5 minutes of unskippable conversation. Also, the whole design of reputation is defeated by locking in previous  'failures': why keep working on my rep if an initial failure dooms me to not having access to future options,  regardless of how much effort I've put in since?

- I walked into the final scene feeling zero attachment towards The Kid, and I walked out of it wanting to shoot his head off. For a game that manages to make even the smallest characters believable and engaging, that's pretty remarkable. He was nearly as badly out of place at the start as he was at the end. I found his introduction clumsy,  and his appearances too sporadic to make me care. Perhaps I missed some of the whispered phrases that I couldn't hear well in the dream sequences... but why is a child the only civilian in sight in a military compound? Why does he hide and refuse help from Shepard, then find himself having presumably followed him to the bottom of an unstable pile of rubble swarming with reaper forces jumping happily onto a shuttle full of other soldiers? Out of all the people who have (potentially) died in the past and (almost certainly) died in ME3, of all the possible personifications of people alive and dead that could have been chosen for the final exposition, out of all the millions who died on Earth that day, why should I care more about him than anyone else? That character just evoked no emotional response whatsoever - until something that took on its form presented me with 3 choices of which I didn't understand the necessity or the full consequence, and then indifference just turned to loathing.
In other words, this was the wrong form to choose.

- The catalyst's back-story is nonsense. I like the now famous summary: "Space kid decides advanced organics are doomed to create synthetics who will destroy their masters, so he creates synthetics who destroy them all before this can happen." Genius.
To summarise the final scene in my words: "A creature I have never heard of before appears out of nowhere, assumes a form that means nothing to me, tells me things I don't understand, gives me choices I don't like and that don't really seem to be choices at all, and asks me to die because it has decided this is the only way forward it wishes to offer me." It made me so angry that the first thing I did on regaining control was to try putting a bullet through its head; shame nothing happened.


I had to watch the end several times to understand what's going on, and I'm still not entirely certain, even assuming it's not all a dream. This in itself is a huge problem. Deciding to cut the explanations out was a major mistake in my view. I know choosing 'investigate' as an option when you're about to die seems a little out of place, but really, leaving so much unexplained and rushing over major points, including why you have to die, is so much worse. It isn't clear that your war efforts to improve the crucible have opened up new options, so your efforts feel pointless. It isn't even clear that the crucible is forcing the catalyst to even give you those options in the first place. It isn't clear that the catalyst is your sworn mortal enemy and would be quite happy to vent you into space if only
the crucible would let it, and that it has no intention of helping you unless you force it to: thus, the 'control' choice makes no sense. Its claim that 'my solution will no longer work' is not only nonsense, it contradicts its statement that it will refuse to make the choice to change things, leaving it up to you to force its hand, so the dialogue we get appears completely incoherent. The Kid avatar and the peaceful music make it seem like some neutral force, instead of the evil incarnate reaper overlord it really is. Effectively it is conveying the same message Sovereign had for Shepard all those years ago: “You exist because we allow it. You will end because we demand it.” You'll forgive me for thinking that the Sovereign scene is somewhat more effective at conveying this kind of message than The Kid. Its figure is like the Architect of the Matrix, with a similar intent and message, yet its avatar carries no menace or gravitas, it is introduced at the last possible moment (instead of part 2/3 of a series), its motivation is gibberish, and you are forced to settle for mutual annihilation in any and all scenarios. Neither wins, both are defeated, with nearly 100% collateral damage. Where's the catharsis in that?



- As it stands, all three choices look bad and nearly indistinguishable, making them not a choice at all. This is only partially due to the nearly identical cinematics.
The synthesis ending makes little sense, comes out of the blue, and is entirely unnecessary and unrelated to almost any of the previous events in all three games except the very last conversation. As a 'good' ending, it fails almost every possible test and is only consistent with what is stated in that one final dialogue. It's arguably worse
than 'control' because with 'control' there is some hope that you may force the reapers to assist in the  reconstruction of mass relays and the transport and healing of trillions of civilian refugees and displaced fighters in the interim. It still leads to massive destruction comparable to 'destroy', only offering a small ray of hope for Jeff and EDI.
The 'destroy' ending is clearly a huge failure on all fronts.
The 'control' ending still leads to widespread destruction and death, and The Kid fails to persuade me of its viability. Shepard just spent several hours convincing the Illusive Man that controlling the reapers was impossible and only appeared viable because he was indoctrinated; we are told that it had in fact been tried before and had been revealed as a reaper ruse, and TIM, one of the main antagonists and smartest people in the galaxy, even agreed enough to take his own life (under some circumstances); how can we suddenly accept that the 'destroy' ending is the bad failure and the 'control' ending is the best option – and still leads to death and destruction? At  the very least the explanation has to be much more thorough and compelling and delivered by a more believable source.


- The galactic dark age following the mass relay chain destruction is unexpected, unnecessary, and counter-productive. It has nothing to do with personal sacrifice, it is not uplifting in any way, it just gratuitously destroys a central element of the galaxy as we know it, particularly if you include the collateral damage of explosions visible on a galactic scale. The billions of lives lost to the reapers and countless worlds laid waste to date would have been more than enough to show that victory came at a heavy price. It also greatly reduces all hope for the future of all survivors. All of these render Shepard's sacrifice less meaningful, not more, and muddle the final message.
I understand that this is a viable option for minimal war asset scores, in the same way that everyone can die at the end of ME2 under some conditions: if you assume complete annihilation is the only way to stop the reapers, pressing the nuclear winter button may be preferable to letting things go on as they are... but forcing it on everyone seems to make all their previous efforts pointless. As I said before, it is also not clear why this happens. The 'destroy' ending offers some plausible justification if you're the kind of renegade who likes to blow things up first and ask questions later, but the other two really don't, and it doesn't fit.

- The Normandy's flight from battle is also almost complete gibberish; it only follows if you make a large number of restrictive assumptions about events of which you have little knowledge, and that are somewhat contradictory
to boot. If people who were standing next to you at the beam managed to get back on board, presumably they left when the retreat was sounded (as Shepard apparently hears over the comms). There must have been some reason why they made it without dragging Shepard back with them; even if he looked like a bloody corpse,  checking his pulse would surely have been enough. Even if he had no pulse, they would surely have dragged him off if they could have. In any event, Shepard knows nothing of this; on the contrary, he does know that he got through to Hackett over the comms while on the citadel, opening the arms to allow emplacement of the crucible, and thus the player is made to presume the whole assault force (and presumably the Normandy) know he is aboard and the mission is, as far as they know, on the way to success. One needs to assume the Normandy left after Shepard loses consciousness the first time, but before he makes contact with Hackett; otherwise, there is no reason why it would have given up the fight without trying to get him out or complete the mission. Even so,
since ground troops are still seen fighting at the end, even if covering a hasty retreat, the fleet is presumably still in orbit doing very much the same: fighting to allow the plan more time, or at least get as many people out as they can. There appears to be little reason why the Normandy, one of the best armed, armored and seasoned ships in the fleet, would not do the same. If failure means the end of the world and your extinction, you need some rather compelling reasons to just give up and run; and even if there are such reasons, it flies in the face of the heroic theme of the series, which is bursting with improbable last-minute rescue attempts and last stands.


I think all I've said does set out why the end as it is doesn't work. I can't believe it takes hours upon hours of
replaying and careful examination of each and every dialogue line to understand what on Earth is going on. Was it all a dream? Was it indoctrination? If it is a Reaper charade, perhaps Harbinger trying to test your resolve and get you to submit willingly for "synthesis", and it has the power to reshape the Citadel (as you clearly get to see before meeting Anderson), why doesn't it just vent you into space or absorb you forcibly? It might offer you the illusion of a choice to destroy it, but surely never actually let you? If it was all a dream or a lie, how can we really believe the Reaper threat is ended, regardless of our final choice?
I think it's quite significant to say that conspiracy theories sound almost more plausible and coherent than what we're given. I can appreciate open endings, or at least ones in which not everything is spelled out word for word, though they do sometimes infuriate me, but endings in which 'it was all a dream' makes more sense than what you see suggest to me that something has gone badly wrong.
Don't get me wrong, sacrificing one's life so that the ones you love may live another day, in whatever circumstance, makes for an amazing story - but when one's death seems forced and arbitrary, and their survival odds not all
that improved by it, it tends to leave a bitter taste, with nothing sweet about it. Jumping on a live grenade is one thing; being told by some Thing to jump and being too dizzy to reply anything other than 'how high' is another.

To conclude, my suggestions are as follows:

- Fix the ending, in any or all of the following ways.
Re-introduce the cut explanation lines, at a minimum.
Add more content padding out the holes or better yet remove the nonsensical Normandy scenes in some endings, replacing them giving more closure and perhaps a tiny bit of hope that the people you saved didn't end up dying due to a galaxy-wide mass relay explosion and social, financial and industrial collapse. Ideally, instead of destroying the mass relays, allow the 'control' ending to keep them intact, at most inactive. You can still use the spreading beam sequence as a message propagation system if you really must recover every possible asset.
Make it clearer that you war effort contributes to the crucible options, but make the options really reflect your choices!
Consider offering an ending in which Shepard lives on after victory, even if under a very small set of circumstances. To know that there is that possibility would fit better with the themes of the franchise, make the war
effort more rewarding, make the final choices more meaningful, and greatly enhance replay value and DLC appeal (in my view).
Please consider introducing the Architect earlier or removing it entirely. I strongly advise changing its avatar.
It must be clearer that the 'nuclear winter' button ('destroy') is a failure, not a success.
If there is any content in the From Ashes DLC that helps explain the catalyst and/or crucible, do seriously consider making it available to everyone for free.

- Make that paragon/renegade check in the Illusive Man conversation on Mars not optional, or better yet, remove the 'locking in' of previous checks as far as the options in the last conversation are concerned.
Players can still choose to shoot his face off if they want to, and they still need enough rep to access the options, but at least they won't have to replay the entire game because they missed one hidden choice.

- Remove the last prompt after the credits soliciting the purchase of DLC.
Regardless of anything you may or may not change about the end, mixing in-game lore (Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat) with a commercial advertisement (Yay! Now go buy more DLC!) is a big mistake. It breaks immersion and diminishes the impact of the ending. The DLC is already advertised on the main screen!

- If there must be more DLC, my preference would be towards fleshing out the story of characters you barely see in the game but were prominent in previous instalments and/or other lore, by letting you play through their side stories, or meeting them again while they're working during the war effort. I'm thinking particularly of Jack and the biotic academy, or Miranda against Cerberus. Of course, if surrendering character control while allowing conversation choices proved to be too troublesome to code as an ending, using a different player character and team may well be out of the question. However, I can't stress this enough: so long as the ending feels meaningless, all your efforts uniting the galaxy seem in vain, and everyone just seems to die at the end, I really
don't see any motivation to pay money for one more character to get attached to. If they'll just end up dead anyway, what's the point?

[Edited for foramtting.]

Modifié par MalexT, 18 mars 2012 - 11:21 .

[GeneralBacon339]

I am now a believer in the indoctrination theory!  that any DLC should Pick up with shepard lying in the debris at the base of the Citadel Beam tower!  and that the original ending was inside shepards mind as harbinger tried to repurpose shepard!

This video about shepards indoctrination is ingenieous!!!

[Midago73]

The ending for me was fine, a fit ending to complete the series, but the epilogue should have been a bit more in depth, covering all of the team, the races that were saved, the fate of other team members on the ground in london.  The elcor team recovery should be a land and play mission rather than just a scan and bravo .  I would have liked to take part in Sheppards tribunal/trial, which the journo asks about then you don't get the answer.  I held out for ash's hotness and nothing happened?.   Would have liked to see more interraction with the batarians/trial tribunal, aftermath.....some visual opening of the game with sheppard at the tribunal and  being relieved of comand, that would have been a great intro....

[Valk72]

nullobject wrote...
People who don't want those parts can't just ignore them, as the scope of the whole package would have been reduced to accomodate them. Better they spend the resources on things that give more bang for buck.

Yes ou can, we are talking about ALTERNATIVE ending, you know what the word ALTERNATIVE mean don't you? When they will add new ending, they are gonna do so by DLC. If you d'ont want those alternative ending don't by DLC that's as simple as that...

[WazTheMagnificent]

Asking for a happy ending is fine, just make sure you clarify that the current ending isn't bad because it's sad.

[MartinPenwald]

Changes I would like to see:

- Obviously, the ending. Having translucent space child tell me that conflict between organics and machines is inevitable AFTER I brokered peace between the geht and the quarians (to the point where the geth actively help the quarians resettle the homeworld) and AFTER I encouraged a romance between a human and an AI, and having Shepard accept that without objecting felt really weird. Telling the kid "Erm, the only ones causing conflict right now are YOUR machines..." and having him bugger off would have felt much better (and yes, this is a very simplified solution).

- the mission journal. Unlike in the previous games, you only see the mission itself but no updates on it, so if you need to recover the artifact of farteffect for someone and did that before you got into a series of main quest missions, you might have forgotten whether you already did recover it or not.

Those are pretty much my biggest gripes with the game. Of course, the lack of a hopeful/happy ending is about 99% and the mission journal 1% of that gripe.

Retirement, old age, and a lot of blue kids. Forever.

[WarChicken78]

Thanks for collecting those Ideas and opinions - it makes a fan hope.

My Ideas for the Endings are:

- 3 (or more) possible endings depending on number of War Assets, Game choices and maybe Reputation.
- Multiplayer should not make any of the endings possible or impossible - a bonus ending for a multplayer enthusiast, is fine, tho.
- The Catalyst/Citadel is Reaper tech or tech of the reaper creators. The Crucible should use the Citadel to broadcast a sef-destruct signal (or something adequate) to the reapers, using the mass relays as local amplifiers.
- If the mass relays survive should be a matter of certain war assets. If enough of a group of war assets are found, they shouldn't get destroyed. An example would be the dark energy thingy one recieves from Conrad Verner.
- With a minimum of war assets the signal should not be strong enough. About half the reapers survive, after a long and fierce battle the allied races lose to the remaining reapers and the cycle remains unbroken (bad ending).
- With a medum amount of war assets, 90% of reapers self-destruct. After a long hardand fierce battle, that causes lots of loss on the allied races side, finally the reapers can be defeated. Even many, many lives are lost, the cycle is broken. (medium/bittersweet ending).
- With most (about 90%) of the war assets, the signal is broadcasted in every last corner of the galaxy reaching every single reaper. All of them are destroyed. The Galaxy cheers. (good ending).
- If Shepard was able to unite Turian and Krogan and (medium ending)/or (good ending) the Geth and the Quarians, Shepard should survive, since they stop a last resort attack of the Reapers. Otherwise he should die a hero. This of cause finally has only a consequence in the medium or good ending.
- The Starchild should be completely removed, except the currend ending sequence will be reutilized in form of a halizunation/indoctrination scene, leading up to the "real" endings.
- The endings should not be put up in a matter of direct choice, but should be a direct consequence of the choices and achivements shepard acomplished throughout the game series and in the finale (similar to the ME2 Ending, wich was wonderful).

Thank you for reading and considering our ideas.
Please ignore the typos - I'm both not a native English speaker and just fell out of my bed.
- Christian "WarChicken78" Keller

Modifié par WarChicken78, 18 mars 2012 - 11:31 .

[ed87]

They could fix the visual bugs in character animation, and some combat bugs that annoyed me at times. But seeing as overall the game is amazing until the ending, i think we all know what the most important change would be...

The only question is, should they re-invent the ending and damn the old one into the pages of history? Stick to their guns and 'artistic expression' by providing fans with a band-aid solution? Or do they adopt the indoctrination theory as a loop-hole out of this mess?

[Dessalines]

I posted other stuff, but a thought cross my mind. It mind sound a bit stupid, but if the Star-Kid was telling truth about the Reapers motivations, then wouldn't it be simplier for them to destroy all synethic life in the universe. There is less synethic life in the universe. If you know your children are going to get hurt if they play with sharp objects, you just put the sharp objects away, you dont toss your children out of the house.

Modifié par Dessalines, 18 mars 2012 - 11:32 .