7052 réponses à ce sujet

[MissMaster_2]

This guy says everything BW needs to know.

[nikola8]

Killer3000ad wrote...

YOu want some feedback? How about the issue of who is the minority/majority?
What people don't realize is that the forums are a good indication of the larger audience and polls conducted here are quite a good sample. Example, the infamous FemShep facebook poll last year. The facebook poll had about 73,744 total likes. Meanwhile a separate BSN poll was run by the community which had 2178 votes.

Facebook poll http://www.facebook....035.85811091644
FemShep 1:8047 = 10.9%
FemShep 2:5355 = 7.3%
FemShep 3:11447 = 15.5 %
FemShep 4:13266 = 18%
FemShep 5:31931 = 43.3 %
FemShep 6:3698 = 5%

Now look at the BSN poll
http://social.biowar...31/polls/22498/
FemShep 1= 14%
FemShep 2= 8%
FemShep 3= 12 %
FemShep 4= 17%
FemShep 5= 42%
FemShep 6= 7%

See how close the numbers match? That the BSN poll with only 2178 votes closely followed the facebook poll with 73,744 likes. Now take a look at the BSN polls on the endings http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ and an outside poll conducted at http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/

The numbers speak for themselves. So stop calling us 'some' or the minority. The fact of the matter is, based on these numbers, the ones who like the ending are in the clear minority, a very MINOR MINORITY!

While I don't doubt that a majority dislike the ending, polls are often highly deceiving.  When you play a game and like it, you don't instantly think "I need to go fill out a poll to say I liked it."  Whereas people who hated it are more likely to voice their complaint- the rule applies to games, stores, restaurants, etc.  The dissatisfied want their voices heard, whereas the satisfied are fine to just sit back.  Therefore, voluntary polls are usually not something to hang your hat on because only the angry will do them.  That said, I do believe that people who hate the ending are in the majority, but not in such a percentage as the poll indicates.

[nikola8]

As far as changes, the game doesn't need them: 10/10 Bioware, you have released a masterpiece.

[GeneralBacon339]

How do you kill a reaper on foot?

Once you destroy the citadel (i imagine thats whats gonna happen)  you should have a show off with harbinger!

the M29- Cain Heavy weapon (i assume thats the exact name) the one you use to destroy the reaper destroyer when you first land in London.

How many shots would it take to destroy a sovereign class reaper?  even if it were damaged?

what about a hand held Thanix Cannon?  We've all seen what the Ship mounted version did to the collect ship (if you purchased the upgrades)

[Orumon]

A wide variety of endings. NOT ONE.

Here are some Mass effect 3 ending ideas:
1. Ultimate Renegade Ending: Prior to the attack massed assault on earth, renegade Shepard suggests that destroying the Charon relay is the best option. Naturally, both Hackett and Anderson object, but with maxed out renegade score he can browbeat them into going along with his plan.

The assault on earth starts as normal, this time covering for an evacuation operation while also diverting attention away from the engineers involved in preparing a sufficiently large asteroid for the destruction. Several time Shepard can choose to help save civilians at risk to him/herself. S/He then manages to catch one of the later shuttles escaping earth and rejoining the allied fleet as it withdraws.

The last part of the mission culminates in the Normandy escaping into the mass relay along with the allies just before the Mass relay is destroyed. The ensuing destruction destroys earth and the largest concentration of reapers in the galaxy.

Ultimately leaves a playable epilogue where you have to hunt down and kill the reapers across the galaxy.

2. ‘The Bar’ Ending: When Harbinger blasts Shepard, he dies, heading to ‘bar’ Garrus mentioned. When he arrives, he’s greeted by his already fallen companions (Pressly, Thane, Mordin and either Ashley or Kaidan.) As the scene progresses he’s joined by his selected party members, the one by one the rest of the Normandy team arrive. Culminating with the rest of the Normandy crew joining the bar as well.

3. Indoctrination Ending: See the indoctrination theory.

4. Destroy Harbinger optional boss: Prior to the no-man’s land run, Shepard can ask for heavy weapons (like the laser designator) in preparation for a potential reaper. However, it will require a paragon or renegade conversation option to be successful. This ultimately means that Shepard can, instead of simply running towards the citadel conduit beam, choose to fire on Harbinger. If he successfully staggers Harbinger, he enters a boss fight where he’s facing the reaper while the rest of the foot soldiers make their run. However, the battle is much more difficult than the one on Rannoch. For starters the strength of the orbital strikes are defined by a randomly increasing/decreasing bar as allied vessels are forced to break away from stable orbital bombardment positions in order to combat interfering reapers. Also, Harbinger, unlike the Rannoch destroyer, can fire two beams at once. Successfully defeating Harbinger means that Shepard is relatively uninjured during the final phase of the game.

5. Refusal Ending: See DeinonSlayer and findmenows suggestion. Ultimately leaves a playable epilogue where you have to hunt down and kill the rest of the reapers.

6. Ultimate Paragon Ending: If Shepard is unwounded, and has an extremely high galactic military score (disregarding the crucible), then Shepard has the option of convincing the catalyst to refine the destruction beam to target only true reapers and their servants, provided he’s saved the Rachni, made peace between the Geth and Quarians, befriended EDI and acquired every military resource. Leads to the ‘golden ending’ and a playable epilogue where you visit the worlds dropping off party members (barring LI) and playing DLC.

Trouble is, with the games already shipped, I think it'll be hard for you to implement all of these endings. It's a shame, however, since besides the ending the game was near perfect barring a minor gripe with Shepard gravitating to cover when I don't need him to, but that's fine and bearable. Also KEEP the current ending, since giving the bad guy a chance at winning is fine and dandy too.

Barring that, if you've can't use the suggested ideas, please alter the ending so it's actually DEFINITIVE, not speculative.

[Xerkysz]

This will be a wall of text.

The ending is a mess because the following was cut out (as late as Nov '11):

- Seeing squad mates being hit by the beam and dying
- Extended Illusive Man speech and battle
- Reapers indoctrinating and assuming control of Shepard during this speech/battle
- Extended Anderson speech
- Much longer Starchild conversation that allowed you to ask questions

This is what caused the beginning of the end to be so, confusing for most.

For example, Javik being with you and getting hit by the beam, yet getting off the normandy, people will see a Plot hole, while a small percentage of people add what happens between getting hit by the beam, and team members getting off the Normandy, the nightmares, hearing things, and the clip of you taking a breath after selecting to destroy them (Overcomming indoctrination) and think Indoctrination.

Couple of bug fixes, for example, selecting paragon options throughout the entire game, and not being able to get TIM to shoot himself.

The Indoctrination "theory", which was part of the plan, needs to be fine tuned and reimplemented.

After you wake up back in the rubble of london, you find your squamates and Anderson limping around looking for you, calling your name, looking for their commander.

(You're obviously not going to be getting up, brushing of your shoulders and charging back into battle. There's a fine line between believable and absolute bull****.) So I'll leave that bit to you.

We'll call anything I can't come up with on the spot, X.

After X, you make it through the beam, and up to the Citadel. Do you do the Anderson/TIM story, or do you find TIM standing there, indoctrinated, with Harbinger by his side?

Either must lead to an interesting battle with TIM, while Harbinger tries to indoctrinate you. After attempting to indoctrinate Shepard, and not being able to due to Shepards will to defeat the reapers and save the galaxy, Harbinger retreats to his Reaper Mobile.
(This fight cannot be like Kai Leng's where he smashes into the ground to restore his shields and brings phantoms/shock troopers to his aid, then you get on him after his shields drop and 1 shot him on Insanity.)

After defeating TIM, and having the Crucible in place, and defeating indoctrination, Harbinger calls for backup to wipe out 'Sword'.

This is where the Crucible comes into play.

The power of the Crucible should not be 3 options, 1 of which obliterates all reapers, instead some sort of powerful weapon that disrupts X part of the Reapers, bringing down their shields (Which we know after the sovereign encounter, renders them weak as hell.) To which you give the word to 'Sword' to unload all the firepower they have on the Reapers.

While Shepard either gets back to earth and joins the fight against the Reaper ground forces, or (This being my preferable idea) you get picked up by Joker, to join the fight with 'Sword' against the reapers.
In joining sword, you jump in control of X weapon of the normandy, and engage in a dog fight, this is where your EMS comes into play.

Low: You lose.
Med: It's close and depends on how the player does.
High: You destroy the Reapers and this triggers a cutscene of the ground forces and fighter ships defeating the Reaper ground forces.

After this X happens.

After X happens, we continue with DLC, eg, taking back Omega.

Also, Reapers must remain a mystery, revealing them would ruin it.

My brain hurts now, but if you'd like to contribute to this, quote this line here <<<

Modifié par Xerkysz, 18 mars 2012 - 11:54 .

[Favourite store on the CitadeI]

Orumon wrote...

A wide variety of endings. NOT ONE.

Here are some Mass effect 3 ending ideas:
1. Ultimate Renegade Ending: Prior to the attack massed assault on earth, renegade Shepard suggests that destroying the Charon relay is the best option. Naturally, both Hackett and Anderson object, but with maxed out renegade score he can browbeat them into going along with his plan.

The assault on earth starts as normal, this time covering for an evacuation operation while also diverting attention away from the engineers involved in preparing a sufficiently large asteroid for the destruction. Several time Shepard can choose to help save civilians at risk to him/herself. S/He then manages to catch one of the later shuttles escaping earth and rejoining the allied fleet as it withdraws.

The last part of the mission culminates in the Normandy escaping into the mass relay along with the allies just before the Mass relay is destroyed. The ensuing destruction destroys earth and the largest concentration of reapers in the galaxy.

Ultimately leaves a playable epilogue where you have to hunt down and kill the reapers across the galaxy.

2. ‘The Bar’ Ending: When Harbinger blasts Shepard, he dies, heading to ‘bar’ Garrus mentioned. When he arrives, he’s greeted by his already fallen companions (Pressly, Thane, Mordin and either Ashley or Kaidan.) As the scene progresses he’s joined by his selected party members, the one by one the rest of the Normandy team arrive. Culminating with the rest of the Normandy crew joining the bar as well.

3. Indoctrination Ending: See the indoctrination theory.

4. Destroy Harbinger optional boss: Prior to the no-man’s land run, Shepard can ask for heavy weapons (like the laser designator) in preparation for a potential reaper. However, it will require a paragon or renegade conversation option to be successful. This ultimately means that Shepard can, instead of simply running towards the citadel conduit beam, choose to fire on Harbinger. If he successfully staggers Harbinger, he enters a boss fight where he’s facing the reaper while the rest of the foot soldiers make their run. However, the battle is much more difficult than the one on Rannoch. For starters the strength of the orbital strikes are defined by a randomly increasing/decreasing bar as allied vessels are forced to break away from stable orbital bombardment positions in order to combat interfering reapers. Also, Harbinger, unlike the Rannoch destroyer, can fire two beams at once. Successfully defeating Harbinger means that Shepard is relatively uninjured during the final phase of the game.

5. Refusal Ending: See DeinonSlayer and findmenows suggestion. Ultimately leaves a playable epilogue where you have to hunt down and kill the rest of the reapers.

6. Ultimate Paragon Ending: If Shepard is unwounded, and has an extremely high galactic military score (disregarding the crucible), then Shepard has the option of convincing the catalyst to refine the destruction beam to target only true reapers and their servants, provided he’s saved the Rachni, made peace between the Geth and Quarians, befriended EDI and acquired every military resource. Leads to the ‘golden ending’ and a playable epilogue where you visit the worlds dropping off party members (barring LI) and playing DLC.

Trouble is, with the games already shipped, I think it'll be hard for you to implement all of these endings. It's a shame, however, since besides the ending the game was near perfect barring a minor gripe with Shepard gravitating to cover when I don't need him to, but that's fine and bearable. Also KEEP the current ending, since giving the bad guy a chance at winning is fine and dandy too.

Barring that, if you've can't use the suggested ideas, please alter the ending so it's actually DEFINITIVE, not speculative.

Re-quoting so it doesn't get lost in the pile ^.^ and it covers most of my points

[Beef Swellings]

JulienJaden wrote...

With all due respect, that is not true. Not in every epic, the hero dies (and Mass Effect is not a tragedy). Lord of the Rings is the prime example for this because everybody knows it. Frodo doesn't die. Except for Boromir, no member of the Fellowship dies. Many others lose their lives and it could have very well ended differently. All of them were willing to give their lives in the end. But this theme of willingness to sacrifice yourself doesn't mean that it has to end this way.

So, it's more like:

A HAPPY ENDING THAT MAKES SENSE, YES
SEVERAL CATHARTIC ENDINGs, YES

DEUS EX MACHINA AND SHALLOW MYSTICISM, NO
ENDING THAT MAKES SENSE AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE THEMES OF THE SERIES, YES


Bear in mind that everyone has his/her own Shepard. If you think your Shepard HAS to die, then go ahead, go for an ending in which your Shepard sacrifices him-/herself. But don't force it on everybody. Everyone here has a different opinion on how the story should end for Shepard. And some of us want one Shepard to die and another to live happily ever after, one to do what must be done and one to get the rest and peace he/she deserves.

At the very least, respect that most of us disagree with you and have good reason to do so.

"Most of us" does not denote a greater understanding of story structure or what is appropriate from a narrative perspective. It also does not mean "most of us", "most" people actually liked the endings and I'm fairly sure you wouldn't agree with them. Granted this is a game and multiple endings CAN include a happy ending but I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from.

I assume that people who want a happy ending want a complete rewrite of everything from the beginning of the run towards the transporter beam on earth onwards. Obviously this would be incredibly expensive for Bioware to do, and as much as you like to think you are the majority, tens of thousands of people are a paltry number compared to the millions who bought the game, so it would not be cost effective.

What I would propose would simply be to cut the whole starchild business. Shephard dieing on the citadel, mission accomplished, maybe he pulls out a photo of his love interest or something as he gazes out on a battle-scarred earth. Maybe some extra cutscenes of the crew, it could still be kept short. The point is that this would be a simple edit to the ending that makes sense at the very least and doesn't require much effort on Bioware's part.

But by all means tell me I'm an idiot who doesn't know what I'm talking about and how amazingly perfect Lord of the Rings or whatever other example you care to mention is. My position is that it wouldn't take much to make a good ending, and it wouldn't need much of an edit from what already exists.

[Cypher333]

My Top Ten things to be fix in Mass effect ending:

• I don't want this synthetics killing organics so they will not create synthetics that will kill them bull****!
• I want Indoctrination theory to be true.
• I want a final Boss fight with harbinger.
• i want very different ending choices!
• i want to have blue babies with liara.
• I want answer to my question about Mass Effect univers.
• I want to see how my final choices affect the galaxy .
• I want to know what happened to my squadmates.
• I'm ok with sheperd sacrifice for another ending choice.
• i'm ok with sheprerd promoted to fleet amiral for an ending choice.

[Torhagen]

I and seemingly a whole lot of other people just want what was promised

Akael_Bayn wrote...

Quick, deflect the topic to something positive!

...yeah, we're not stupid, you know?
Don't give us this "We don't want to spoil things for people who aren't done" BS.

How about a straight answer about where all the many and varied endings we were promised went?




“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

EDIT/UPDATE:  I've gotten lots of "virtual high fives" from various users for putting this up on the first page of the thread, and I just want you guys to know that I appreciate that you appreciate this post!  That said, though, I want to let everyone know after this edit, I'm not going to be continuing to log back in and give personal responses to messages.  The recent "buy DLC or GTFO" message was recieved loud and clear, and as I stated elsewhere: I'm GTFO-ing.  This game, forum, and the related companies are all a footnote in history for me.  Again, I appreciate the support, and I don't mean to ignore your positive messages, but I've got other things to spend my time on.

[Trephinate]

well, since bioware have actually asked for our feedback and this is something not only i, but - at a glance since finishing the game - what so many of us whom have thoroughly enjoyed and been enthralled by this series, feel quite strongly about (to an obsessive passion?); here's my two cents:

to be quite frank, the finale to mass effect 3 is just incredibly lack-lustre. i rather liked the sequence leading up to and including the final confrontation with the illusive man and anderson onboard the citadel, not to mention the constant awe from the preceding hours/days of playing this game and the previous two chapters where expectations have not only been met but well and truly exceeded, but from this milestone in the adventure it seems rather than provide a decisive conclusion, dozens of questions are raised which are never expounded, key themes are dropped, flaws are introduced and we see that regardless of our choices or the events of this and the previous games, we are presented with a stock-standard ending nearly identical for each option.

to illucidate what many before me already have, and probably in a more articulate fashion, some of these incidents include:

• while this point doesn't bother me terribly, it sprung to mind when first appeared: how does the illusive man reach the control panel in the citadel? i am forced to assume, because it is neither inferred nor really implied, that while unconscious from harbinger's blast, anderson has made it through the conduit before me and we arrive in the 'inaccessible core' the keepers scuttle about in the citadel we have heard so much about previously; but are you suggesting the illusive man also took a trip to london, enjoying tea and scones in the rubble then decided to enter the beam sometime before the final push, or that he and he alone managed to creep through the citadel's 'inaccessible' interior to these never before explored spaces, perhaps because he is indoctrinated? and how exactly does he have this newfound power to actually control my own and anderson's actions when saren/harbinger/the collecters or himself have never employed such trickery before? perhaps i missed a researcher's log at sanctuary, but it actually took me a moment to realise it was not shephard, either indoctrinated or deeply resentful of anderson for some past slight (that ridiculous running motion i presume), but playing marionette to sheen's will and popping a cap in his/her old mentor.
  
• what is the, not to rip off kubrick/clarke's creation, starchild? is he a vi, or some ethereal projection from our recurring dreams? from the opening sequence i had felt something was off about the kid, not being helped into the shuttle in which we assume he dies, to nightmares of lost and sacrificed friends throughout the game culminating in yourself standing beside the child and burning. it is amusing to see how many people are advocating this indoctrination theory because that is exactly what i thought the kid was after seeing the 'ghostly apparition' codex entry under what was one of the key themes of the first game and what i had always assumed the illusive man had undergone in the second after seeing his dreamy blue eyes (i had wondered if the normandy was reaper tech, as we know cerberus helped build it and vega repeatedly mentions the humming which, incidentally, led me to exploring every nook and niche in the cargo bay for the source after stumbling across my beloved space hamster boo - so many wasted minutes). while i digress, we also see that in every ending, the normandy is destroyed by the shockwave and i had assumed after choosing to only destroy the reapers, this was another hint of the above.
  
  the starchild then claims he is the catalyst, and the citadel his home, with the reapers being employed to prevent one civilisation from creating synthetics that would eventually uprise and wipe out all organics which is apparently an irrefutable eventuality. so i learn this kid could have potentially just opened the citadel without sovereign's/the keepers' help in the first game. i also learn that the reapers are a delightful tautology, and that the peace i had so carefully garnered between the quarian and the geth is a lie, all and not some splinter faction of flashlights are organic murdering 'heretics', legion must simply have sacrificed himself to evolve the geth into an ai better capable of wiping out all organics, the stored memories in the geth consensus were shown to sheph(e)rd to put him/her in a false sense of security (who's the leader of the flock and who's the sheep now?), and edi is a deceitful program who shall later break and stab joker's heart, wipe out the surviving normandy crew and rename herself skynet.
  
• shephard is then given three options, each marginally different, and thoroughly ambiguous in what will become of the galaxy in the aftermath (which would have been fine if the final cutscene so much as attempted to detail this). the first choice, controlling the reapers, which as we have previously seen with the illusive man, failed horribly but we are given some glimmer of hope this may work by the statement that the illusive man failed due to his prior indoctrination. the next, synthesis, which i noticed was not given to a friend's playthrough (nor do we see any ghostly visages of someone executing this alternative), seemed to be what saren austin was aiming for in the first game, and after his shuttle crashed shephard must engage austin's bionic body in a delightful battle because, again, this failed horribly for saren though seems to be the only choice on face value (the dead kid's ghostly word) that will give house-of-next-tuesday's flashlights and joker's sex doll  a place in the future... oh, and the start of me2 begins with shephard becoming the next steve austin, and the conclusion shows the synthesis liquification of various colonies and normandy crew. and finally, the last choice, to destroy all synthetics including the geth that i had just liberated and granted a true consciousness, perhaps even a soul, to and edi and apparently part of our protagonist; thanks to the over-arching tautology that we had time and again seemed to disprove during the course of this game and the end of the second.
  
• finally, the ending cutscenes themselves after shephard's last choice, almost identical regardless of your prerogative or the choices that we understood would shape them. it was interesting to see joker had apparently made light of his earlier quip that he had never mutinied during the sovereign or enriched fatty acid omega 4 relay missions events and taken the normandy, along with the crew i had just spoken to before in london, and two of whom were supposedly present in the run to the conduit, out of the final assault and to some distant tropical location where i am presuming things are about to turn lord of the flies. we see that regardless of shephard's choice, the crucible beam or perhaps resulting explosion of the relays, effectively destroys all (or was it normandy seeking?) spaceships ensuring galactic isolation for generations to come, and sacrifice of everyone whom directly fought above earth. wasn't it mentioned destruction of a relay would wipe out the surround systems? so regardless of choice, did shephard just push the envelope on the reaper objective and not just wipe out civilised cultures, but every form of life in the known galaxy?

while i am not bothered by grim endings nor, personally, a lack of choice/impact (though certainly this would be a fantastic idea); making the final scenes so ambiguous the player must fill in all the gaps and inexplicably uncharacteristic and frankly lacking continuity of the story was profoundly unsatisfying. i've read a few of the grievances people had with ending, particularly around it not being shaped by the journey which was apparently promised (though i'd consider the resolutions we made during the various krogan/turian and geth/quarian conflicts for example contrary to this assertion), and that it makes no real attempt to describe the consequences of our actions, ie future we have granted to the galaxy, merely show the firing of the crucible, it has diminished my own desire to recreate my renegade shephard lost to a now defunct gamertag.


so what could i suggest as a possible resolution to this? honestly, i would be more than a little annoyed to have to pay for dlc to attain a real resolution to a story i have already purchased, but here it is:

• i suppose what fans most want to see in those final minutes is a conclusion shaped not by an arbitrary choice at the end of the game, but shaped by our journey through the three chapters. for many, one that gives at least a little insight into the state of the galaxy once the reaper threat is neutralised (or just during this event), and one that is clearly distinguished from the next. choice and consequence.
  
• well, to ripoff an old formula, in a game so shaped by the choices we make, perhaps an ending akin to the fallout 2 ending would be nice: where a series of short clips are shown on the key stories/elements of the whole saga that provide a view aftermath based directly upon the key decisions you made, i would think after the crucible has fired and before the normandy destruction, showing the consequences of your various decisions - good or bad, anticipated or not (oh dear, the starchild was right and the geth annihilate the quarians if allowed to subsist etc etc). to me, this seems the simplest solution to tailoring a very personal ending to the individual journeys we all took shephard on.
  
• the indoctrination theory is also a rather compelling story, one i had bought into even before i'd allowed myself to start looking at spoilers after my completion of the final chapter. given the time shephard has spent aboard the reaper (well, starchild) produced citadel, the collector ship and collector base, and his/her proximity to sovereign/harbinger/any of the reapers during the third instalment let alone the lazarus project. it would allow for a new mission or two and new, distinct endings.

thanks for your time.

[Beef Swellings]

Deventh wrote...

People like you make me sick, seriously sick. I bet you want even your own thread, hell i bet you even want to create the Mass Effect universe. We (the people wanting happy ending) never ever said anything against the ones who want sad ending. It's all about the player choice and how well he has done in the 3 games. If you have done everything right in all 3 games then why not survive in ME3 and be with your LI? You can't just bash other people opinions with your own. It makes you really sad.

People like you make me sad. Its a video game, calm yourself down corky. If the writers of Mass Effect 3 intended for each ending to have Shepard die they obviously felt that his character arc should end that way. Also, just because you fell in love with a fictional character does not mean the entire story of Mass Effect 3 should cater to that. It shouldn't cater to what I want either, BUT there are serious issues with the story as a whole, actual issues of narrative, conflict-resolution, protagonist-vs-antagonist, all those things that make up genuine criticisms of Mass Effect 3's ending.

[Torhagen]

also go and read EA/Bioware in Full PR Damage Control Mode if you havent so far

Modifié par Torhagen, 18 mars 2012 - 12:04 .

[JenMaxon]

Just change the ending and get rid of that bloody child FCOL.

[GameBoyish]

For posterity:

CastonFolarus wrote...

Here's what I said in the ME3 suggestions thread. Beware, it's a bit TL;DR.



Thank you in advance for offering this thread for the fans that love your work, and I hope that my contribution helps you in making future content and brigning along any changes you decide to implement.

Now the endings don't bother me as much as they have other people. I have enough imagination to overcome any shortcomings they have. And I'm sure any complaints I make, others have already said, and I'm confident that you guys will resolve the issues through whatever means you think is best.

But the one thing that bothers me above all else is the treatment of Jacob's romance in ME3. To me, it was a very meaningful, enjoyable romance in ME2, and it deserved better than what it got in the sequel. Between Jacob's lack of drama as a character(a positive thing, from several Shepards POVs), the fact that he offers Shepard a chance to vent her frustrations, and the fact that he tells Shepard that he lovs her(something none of the other LIs do) were all things that made his romance unique and satisfying. And to end it by having him leave Shepard, cheat on her with Dr. Cole, tell her that "The Normandy is her first love", that he doesn't think she'll ever want to settle down, etc. is, IMO, an insult to Jacob as a character, and the people who romanced him. Given the way the romance is treated, it feels better to just kill him in ME2, and that's a huge waste of a character and a romance.

And as much as I don't want to play this card, I feel like Jacob's popularity(or lack thereof) is a serious factor in this. We Jacob fans know he's not a popular character, much less a LI. But that's no reason to treat the people that DO like him in this fashion. To us, it felt like a slap in the face, and only because we grew to like a character and a romance that you gave us. And we were the only ones who'd end up seeing this(the cheating and lack of continuation). The people who didn't like Jacob have remained relatively unaffected, other than saying "I never liked Jacob, but you guys got treated like ****." or "You know, my favorite LIs wasn't treated as well as I'd like, but at least he/she wasn't treated like Jacob." So the only people that come out of this situation hurt are thoese that alreadly liked somethign you did. This sets a serious precedent for all of us Jacob fans. Why should we like future characters you make if we end up being shown this kind of treatment?

Here are the things that don't make sense to me, or just plain pissed me off, as far as how Jacob was treated as a romanced character(I have no problems whatsoever with his character direction if he wasn't romanced. He's spot on as a 'bro' for most of my Sheps):

1. There have been many hints that he offers Shepard stability. This is a term used when Liara mentions his romance in the LotSB DLC. "He's stable. You may need that mrre than you think in the times ahead." This is perfect for Shepard, and exactly fitting for Jacob as a character. If he is truly the stable man we saw in ME2, he wouldn't just ditch Shepard like he does. He would wait for her. He might be a bit impatient, certainly, but he would wait for her, because he'd know she was worth it. And the idea that Jacob would be there for her, through everything else that heppens, would be a great comfort. He doesn't have to be a part of her squad to be there for her. A few emails now and then, maybe him asking if she wants a family, like he does. Jacob cheating on Shepard throws this whole wonderful character direction on its face. He offers no stability for Shepard, just bitterness and resentment.

2. Dr. Cole is spoiled as a character to me after how she talks to a romanced Shepard. She says that Jacob still loves Shepard, and that she knew they were together when she went after him, but that 'he's better off with me'. This makes her come off as man-stealing ****. Even when I play my Shepards that don't get this dialogue, I don't like her, and that is a shame, since I'd love to enjoy the "Ex-Cerberus Scientists" mission, as I thought it had a lot to offer. But Dr. Cole's dialogue towards Jacobmancing Shepard is just plain mean.

3. One of the key things with romance in the Mass Effect series in general is that it is something under the player's control. I don't like to sound like a control freak, and I know that the real world romance is hardly something under anyone's control, but it is the mechanic that we as players have come to expect with our romances. And Jacob cheating on Shepard and leaving her for Dr. Cole is not something that is under Shepard's control at all, and that does ****** me off. The only other LI who is treated similarily to this is Thane, who's death lies outside of player control, but it doesn't feel nearly as bad as this. Also, none of ManShep's LIs get treated this way, and FemShep loses out on two? One of Bioware's messages in their marketing is that they want to cater to their female fans, and this seems to fly in the face of that. Just something to consider here.

Now, for the way to make this right, dialogue included(this is just the best theory I've got. you could simply chnage a few dialogues for him during his mission, but that might cause some timelyine problems with his relationship with Dr. Cole):

Have Shepard meet up or have a holocall with Jacob on the Citadel prior to the end of the Genophage Arc, like she does with Miranda. This would allow Shepard to end/continue the romance, keeping it within player control. Jacob could mention Dr. Cole(including her making advances), and the work he's doing saving Ex-Cerberus personnel. And they could make-up or break-up amicably here if the players wants that. Like so:

Shep: You seem to be happy there, Jacob. You like Dr. Cole?
Jacob: Yeah, we've got a lot in common, Shepard. Still, she isn't you. Couldn't reach you when you were with the Alliance, but I'm thinkin' about you. Are we still good, Shepard?
Break-up:
Shepard:Jacob....I don't think this will work. With everything that's going on, the chances of us both living through this war....
Jacob: *pained, dejected look* Yeah...I get you. Doing what we do, it's hard to hope for anything real. For what it's worth, Shepard, I love y- loved you. Even if you don't feel the same, I want you to know that. We still friends?
Shepard: Yeah, still friends, Jacob. Take up that doctor's offer for drinks. She sounds nice.
Jacob: Yeah, I might do that. See you around, Shepard.
Make-up:
Shepard: Oh, we're still good Jacob. I've missed you. Saving the galaxy won't be the same without you watching my back.
Jacob: *smirk* Yeah, but we both have things to do, Shepard. These people are counting on me to protect them. They need me.
Shepard: Wanna trade?
Jacob: *chuckle* Thanks Shepard, but I'll pass. I don't envy you, saving the galaxy by playing politics. But I'll keep in touch, if I can.
Shepard: *sultry smile* Calling your girlfriend from a secret location, Jacob? Kind of like sneaking into the captain's quarters....
Jacob: *playful smile* Yeah, it's a heavy risk....
Shepard: But the priiize......
Jacob: I'll see you soon, Shepard. Goodbye. I love you.

That's how I think Jacob's romance could be continued before you meet him on the mission. and if you don't take this chance to talk with him, he does end up cheating on you. That would keep the situation in the player's control, but still have the opprotunity to have Jacob decide to leave Shepard. I think it would be another case of Jacob being a unique LI in that he will do that if you don't talk to him.

Going through with this meeting would change quite some dialogue in the 'Ex-Cerberus' mission, since Shepard would already know what Jacob is doing there, and who Dr. Cole is. And when she talks wih Jacob, he'll still be loyal to her, and Dr. Cole could even say something congradualatory to Shepard, like 'I asked him out, but he wouldn't take my offer. I thought he'd be better off here, with me. But that man loves you. Take care fo him, will you? We owe our lives to him.'

And when Shepard and Jacob meet back up on the Citadel afterward, they could talk about the future, and what they want. Jacob can mention starting a family, and they can have a chance for a fade-to-black.

I know this is a lot of content to ask for, post-release. but this is how I could see you guys doing justice to Jacob's romance. It's not any more than what was given to the Miranda/Jack romances, and it would undo the one major flaw i've seen in the entire game. Even if you don't do any of this, at least try to recover Jacob's romance for his fanst. We're feeling pretty bitter about this, and it would be nice not to hold those kind of feelings towards a develper whose games we all enjoy.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

[xcomcmdr]

Beef Swellings wrote...

Deventh wrote...

People
like you make me sick, seriously sick. I bet you want even your own
thread, hell i bet you even want to create the Mass Effect universe. We
(the people wanting happy ending) never ever said anything against the
ones who want sad ending. It's all about the player choice and how well
he has done in the 3 games. If you have done everything right in all 3
games then why not survive in ME3 and be with your LI? You can't just
bash other people opinions with your own. It makes you really sad.

People
like you make me sad. Its a video game, calm yourself down corky. If
the writers of Mass Effect 3 intended for each ending to have Shepard
die they obviously felt that his character arc should end that way.
Also, just because you fell in love with a fictional character does not
mean the entire story of Mass Effect 3 should cater to that. It
shouldn't cater to what I want either, BUT there are serious issues with
the story as a whole, actual issues of narrative, conflict-resolution,
protagonist-vs-antagonist, all those things that make up genuine
criticisms of Mass Effect 3's ending.

I'm sorry, but why not a choice where Shepard lives with it's LI ?

Seriously...It's a RPG, not a movie.

Modifié par xcomcmdr, 18 mars 2012 - 12:08 .

[Deventh]

Beef Swellings wrote...

Deventh wrote...

People like you make me sick, seriously sick. I bet you want even your own thread, hell i bet you even want to create the Mass Effect universe. We (the people wanting happy ending) never ever said anything against the ones who want sad ending. It's all about the player choice and how well he has done in the 3 games. If you have done everything right in all 3 games then why not survive in ME3 and be with your LI? You can't just bash other people opinions with your own. It makes you really sad.

People like you make me sad. Its a video game, calm yourself down corky. If the writers of Mass Effect 3 intended for each ending to have Shepard die they obviously felt that his character arc should end that way. Also, just because you fell in love with a fictional character does not mean the entire story of Mass Effect 3 should cater to that. It shouldn't cater to what I want either, BUT there are serious issues with the story as a whole, actual issues of narrative, conflict-resolution, protagonist-vs-antagonist, all those things that make up genuine criticisms of Mass Effect 3's ending.

They obviously did not intended for Shepard to die as you can obviously see he has survived in a cut-scene. I fell in love with the game and i won't let it end that way. I played all 3 games with a struggle for survival,death and grief so that i can die with all my friends in the end? No thanks. I agree that there are other issues, but that doesn't mean we can't wish for the right thing in the mean time. We should respect each other and not fight among us. Anyway i'm done here i won't comment anymore and i sincerely apologize to the moderator for the spam i created. I just needed to say this. 


I know you will make this right, BioWare. I believe in you.

[Aweus]

I'm sorry, but why not a choice where Shepard lives with it's LI ?

Seriously...It's a RPG, not a movie.

This. I give my full support for those who liked the ending. And I dont want in any way to deprive them from this experience. But I just dont understand why would someone protest against giving some alternative choices and endings. Something that would not affect them in any way. This just sounds so selfish.

[Tony Redgrave]

nikola8 wrote...

As far as changes, the game doesn't need them: 10/10 Bioware, you have released a masterpiece.

I agree...partially. The game is a masterpiece, the entire franchise is a masterpiece. Sci-fi entertainment at its very best! Up until the very ending(s).

The brilliance of a "ending DLC" that gives the vast majority of the fanbase what they feel the franchise truly deserves, is...It's a DLC! Those who are happy with the endings as they are can simply, not download it.

Modifié par Spaz85, 18 mars 2012 - 12:21 .

[Teddie Sage]

thedistortedchild wrote...

I want to see the outcomes of my choices, I want an epilogue. I want the crew to survive and my shep to be with them.
Real life is depressing enough, I'd like my escapism to be less so.

I 100% agree on that.

[Prudii Aden]

I'll try to bullet point this for ease of reference:
Problems:

• The ending - it made no sense and was a completely jarring change of theme to the rest of the game and the series. Previously, there has always been some modicum of hope and certainly in ME2, if you prepared and planned enough, you could get through the Suicide Mission without losing anyone. Leaving aside the circular nature of the Catalyst's argument for the cycles, even if you got everyone working together (or maxed out the War Assets bar), there was still no option whereby Shepard could live.

• The endings themselves contradict existing lore - both in Arrival and in the ME3 codex, it states that when mass relays explode, they explode with the force of a small supernova.  Also, given the view that is shown when talking to the Catalyst - you seem to be on the outside surface of the Citadel. How come Shepard isn't explosively decompressing or getting fried by radiation?

• Why is the Normandy fleeing the scene? From what has been shown of the character, Joker is distinctly unlikely to be fleeing the battle, especially if you took EDI along with you for the final fight and you'd convinced them to form a relationship. Also, how did the squadmembers you took with you for the final fight end up on the Normandy?

• Lack of hope in the ending. There has always been an element of hope at the end of each prior Mass Effect.
  In 1, Sovereign is defeated, and given Anderson's speach at the end,
  the player is left with the feeling that victory might be possible. In
  2, the cutscene at the end shows your team (assuming they survived)
  working together as a team, and while you do see the reapers starting to
  move in on the galaxy, you are left with the feeling that you might be
  able to beat them, as you've more information on how they work. In 3, you spend a lot of the game building up alliances, as well as personally taking down a reaper and seeing another destroyed, so you know they can be destroyed, which engenders a sense of hope. At the end, that gets blown away and you are left with the sense that none of it mattered, that there is no hope. Whatever happens, you're doomed. This is a complete thematic reversal in comparison with the rest of the game and series.

Suggested fixes:

• Add in an ending whereby Shepard actually lives and has a chance to retire/be with their LI, rather than an inconclusive clip that shows someone in N7 armour who might or might not be Shepard taking a breath in some undefined rubble. This doesn't necessarily mean it's a happy ending, as the galaxy is in a similar state to Europe post World War 2.  Two (three if you count Earth) homeworlds of the major galactic powers have been shown on screen to have been severely hit. This option should be available to those who only play single player.

• Crib a little from the ending of Dragon Age:Origins (or Dragon Age 2) - no matter what ending, show in broad strokes what happened after the player's selected ending. What happened to Shepard's squadmates and a brief bit of information on what happened in the galaxy after the final showdown. If you are planning on a new Mass Effect series, no matter what the player chooses, you can set it sufficiently in the future that any disparity between the ending of 3 and the beginning of 4 can be set in the opening sequence of 4. For example, say that you've decided for 4 that you need the Mass Relays gone and an alternate transportation system set in place but the player chose an ending where they didn't get destroyed, there can always be some variety of war or event that gets rid of them/makes them non functional.

• Please, keep the Reapers motivations inscrutable - or at least, if you have to show their motivations, make it better and more sensible than the circular argument given by the Catalyst - "I'm killing you with synthetic beings to prevent you from being killed by synthetic beings."

• If the Mass relays have to blow up, at least tell us why and whether or not they are wiping out the systems they're in.

• Remove the Normandy fleeing cut scene, or, if you can't, at least explain or give a reason why the Normandy is fleeing.

• Put in a hopeful ending - something that means, if the player has worked hard enough/gained enough War Assets, they can end the game on a high note. If you're looking for an example of how this was done well, watch "Into the Fire" - Season 4, episode 6 of Babylon 5.

In short, I think a lot of the frustration is down to the lack of closure given, especially since in the lead up to release various senior Bioware executives said in interview things like "You will get closure.", "There will be be no A, B or C" ending." as well as the fact that, bar the ending, the game itself is phenomenal and a worthy addition to the Mass Effect Franchise. The rest of the game is obviously a labour of love, however when it comes to the ending it seems like weariness took over and imagination ran out.

[RedNanaki]

The problem is the lack of emotional resolution. Some of us want a happy ending, but what we absolutely *need* is emotional resolution (seeing the consequences of our actions play out). Be it happy or sad.

This may have been linked to already, but it explains the problem incredibly well:
http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html

What I personally want to see in the ending is more of Harbinger (not one line, seriously?) and a complete removal of the Starchild sequence and the Normandy epilogue. And then naturally see how the consequences of our actions throughout the series play out in the galaxy. Would also be nice to see what happens to individual characters.

Aside from the lack of Harbinger I felt that the ending up until the elevator to Crazytown was very close to being pitch-perfect. That's why it was such a downer!

Edit: And war assets, of course. We want to see all those war assets play a part in the final battle!

Modifié par RedNanaki, 18 mars 2012 - 12:24 .

[Thermorium]

 I'll try to keep this short, but that probably won't work out as well.


First of all, i'd like to say that i've invested around 200 hours into all of the mass effect games. 2 playthroughs of ME1 with the same Shepard, than 2 more of ME2 and now 1 of ME3. I actually managed to beat ME3 in about 33 hours. I've bought numerous items that extended the ME universe beyond the games. I've bought 2 books, and the Mass Effect: Redemption graphic novel. My N7 razer keyboard is on it's way to me as i write this.

I never actually managed to start a playthrough on another Shepard than my first, so i can't speak for anything in the game other than Paragon Soldier FemShep (with Liara as LI).

So i've had some time to collect my thoughts on the game itself, and i finally made time to post them here.

The Good Parts

• The Combat. I'm not really a big fan of shooters, but the combat in Mass Effect 3 felt tight, it controlled exceptionally, except for the fact that Sprint, Use and Take Cover were all on the same button (move Use to "E" and you're good).

• Customization. The amount of armor and weapon customization was good. The weapon ranks kind of reminded me of the original Mass Effect (Which i still think is the best when it comes to the RPG experience).

• Story. I actually didn't like Mass Effect 2 on my first playthrough. The story, although not bad, never had this "bad guy" motivation like Mass Effect 1 did. The goal you had in Mass Effect 2 was too vague for me to really feel motivated to continue playing the game. This was rectified in Mass Effect 3. You were placed right in the middle of the action, and from the start the goal was really clear: Liberate Earth and take down the reapers.

• Character Interaction. All of your squadmates and returning characters from the previous games were simply amazing. Wrex and Tuchanka, Mordin's sacrifice (Manly Tears everywhere), Interaction with squadmates on the Normandy, Tali and Garrus getting together. Thane's death. I actually cried when i thought i sent Grunt to his death by trying to save the Rachni Queen. The romance with Liara, and the parting gift on Earth. And ofcourse many many more moments of sheer awesome.

The Bad Part(s)

The sidequests. It was basically either, go to a planet and scan for the item you need, or fight of waves of enemies on the multiplayer maps. You hardly went to the surface of the planet like in Mass Effect 1 or 2. I was extremely disappointed that i there weren't a whole lot more planets to explore.

The Ending. I don't think this is much of a suprise, but i really didn't like the ending. The main reason, as mentioned many times before me, and probably many times after this is posted, is that i hardly got any closure. And I don't mean with the story (With story i mean retaking earth and stopping the reapers).

The biggest problem i had with the ending was that i never got closure on what happened with all the amazing characters in the game. Because for me, and a lot of other people i'm sure, the Mass Effect games are better than your average game because of the incredible amount of time and effort put into the characters you meet and interact with.

It was also a bit of a shame that you never saw most of the war assets you had acquired. Were where my Dinosaur riding krogan? Captain Kirrahe and his STG squad? The Shadow Broker Forces i had acquired? I think this could've been the moment to really show off the amount of effort you'd put into getting everyone together to fight the reapers. 
             
Yesterday evening on the TGS Podcast, Totalbiscuit made an amazing comment on the Mass Effect games in general. Shepard is only a narrative tool, a chunk of meat so to speak which the player uses to talk to all the interesting and diverse character the game has to offer. Now in the ending, all of sudden, instead of showing love for all the characters you spent so much time with, the story all of a sudden centers on Shepard. It never shows what happened to your squadmembers, Conrad, Anderson, Hackett, Aria, Wrex, and everyone else.

Another thing i dislike about the ending, is that, in my opinion, it tries to do too much. basically, i was left confused after the ending. My thoughts went from extremely sad after Anderson died, to extreme confusion when the Starchild/God Kid started talking. It just made no sense to me. And the game never cleared things up. I got even more confused after i choose the destroy ending, the citadel and all of the mass relays blew up, and the Normandy was traveling at FTL speeds all of sudden. Switch back to Shepard lying in the rubble, and the confusion was complete. 

But it got even worse after the Credits. The Stargazer really didn't clear things up and left me even more confused than before. With the epilogue not explaining everything i was left with only confusion. And the problem with confusion is that it can quickly turn into anger. And i think a lot of the people that immediately went to the forums to complain weren't angry at bioware or EA, they were just left so confused by the ending that they needed to vent and try and cope with what just happened.

I think the Indoctrination Theory is really cool. It allows the ending to remain as is, but adds to it. Giving us a chance to have the final boss battle as mentioned in the Art of the Mass Effect Universe book. It can also provide us with the much needed closure. And it means you don't doom the entire universe by destroying all the mass relays.


So just to reiterate what i just said:

The combat was good, it felt tight and responsive, just some problems with one button having 3 functions.
Customization was good, it added depth to the game.
The Story had a good focus and a good drive to continue playing the game.
Character Interaction was amazing.

The sidequests felt uninspired and boring, it was either waves on the multiplayer maps or launching a probe, not enough planet exploring.
The ending never gave closure on where we needed it most, the character we've come to care about.
The ending never showed us most of the acquired war assets, giving us almost no visual indication of the amount of effort you've put into it.
The ending left you confused and the epilogue did nothing to clear anything up.
The ending tried to do many things, but only left me confused.
The indoctrination theory allows the game to remains as is, and will only have need for adding things at the end.


I hope this wasn't too long of a read, and that it was readable as well. This was my rant regarding ME3 and it's ending.

Modifié par Thermorium, 18 mars 2012 - 12:33 .

[VlPER007]

I am a firm believer in the "Indoctrination Theory".  It would allow a seamless transition from what is presently representing the ending to what could be added later as "The Truth".  Not only that, but it would turn what was once one of the worst endings created into one of sheer brilliance.  For my suggestion, I will begin at the part where Shepard is charging toward the beam and then blacks out.

When he hears everyone has been killed and there are no survivors, this is just part of the hallucination his mind is fabricating as Indoctrination is setting in.  In reality, most the men were cut down by Harbinger's beam.  Perhaps even a piece of building collapses, temporarily cutting him off from his squad and any reinforcements.  (Thus allowing a bit of time for his encounter with the "Catalyst" while they catch up)

So who while your team is climbing over the rubble trying to get to you and the transporter beam, you meet with the Catalyst as is currently shown.  I will also stop after each choice at the point where he goes into the beam for real.  Here is how the 3 choices will play out for the Indoctrination Theory.

Choice 1:  You choose to destroy all synthetic life.

Result:  Shepard has broken free of Indoctrination.  He wakes up to realize the whole thing was a figment of his imagination and that the Reapers were in fact attempting to indoctrinate him.  At this point, his team clears the rubble to see him getting up from the floor.  As you all rejoin together, Harbinger ceases fire to focus on a new larger threat.  A small but strong collection of ships scream in.  Cerberus insignia emblazoned on the side.  They attack Harbinger.  While that battle is going on, you fight another wave of Husks, Cannibals, Marauders, maybe even a Banshee or Brute.

Harbinger, overwhelmed, by the dwindling Cerberus fleet, retreats (for now) and is followed by the bulk of what's left of those ships.  One Cerberus ship lands and T.I.M. along with more Cerberus Commandos step off. You have a conversation where you can once again try to convince him to fight with you instead of against you.  If you have extremely high paragon points, you succeed and he shoots himself.  (I imagine seeing that again will confuse him somewhat. lol) If not, you fight him and his men.  During the fight, he retreats into the beam along with a couple of his commandos.  If he shoots himself, like Saren before him, Harbinger takes over his body and still retreats into the beam.


Choice 2:  You choose to control the Reapers.

Result:  Shepard is still battling the Indoctrination affects, but his mind is losing ground fast.  The scene plays out the same as the scene above with the exception that you have no chance to convince T.I.M. to join you as you are to far under their control to convince another they are also.  His friends voices also seem to have a slightly echoing sound to it, when he first wakes up. Another sign his mind is failing. T.I.M.’s arrival puts him back into focus.


Choice 3:  You choose Synthesis.

Result:  Shepard has been successfully indoctrinated.  (Or so the Reapers think) Like the first scene, he wakes up to realize the whole thing was a figment of his imagination, but this time he doesn't realize it was an attempt to Indoctrinate him.  Instead he simply feels like it was another strange vision brought by being knocked one to many times in the head. At this point, his team clears the rubble to see him getting up from the floor. What Shepard sees though horrifies him.  Instead of seeing his friends, he sees himself surrounded by Husks (Ashley/Kaiden, Jack, Miranda, Jacob, James, Anderson, maybe even EDI, + 2 random other soldiers as husks, I'll explain) a Marauder (Garris), and 2 Banshee's (Liara, Samara/Morinth), not sure what a reaper version of krogan would be (for Wrex and Grunt).... Meanwhile, Harbinger again ceases fire to focus on a new larger threat. A small but strong collection of ships screams in. Cerberus insignia emblazoned on the side. They attack Harbinger. Now back to Shepard. 

As the group close in on him, the two random soldiers are closest, the hold out their hands to help the Commander up.  Seeing only husks, this looks like a regular attack from husks.  He opens fire (much to the shock of his team) killing the 2 men.  They dive for cover and begin to defend themselves.  Now during this whole battle, Shepard can hear the voices of his friends but only see Reaper pawns.  They are pleading with him the whole time to stop.  Finally Liara or Samara/Morinth hit him with a singularity or something that renders him immobile for a time.  They approach him and talk him back to his senses.  Finally the illusion of them being the enemy fades and he sees them for what they truly are....his friends and allies.  I imagine an interchange of words would occur before the Cerberus portion mentioned above happens.

Conclusion:  So now at this point.  T.I.M. is either dead by your hand or his own, Harbinger has been driven back, and you are now free to enter the transporter beam......again.   You do so with only 2 team mates, the rest staying behind to guard the beam.  Moving at a normal pace you enter the same area as you did before.  Instead of seeing Anderson at the control panel, you see T.I.M.  As you close in, T.I.M. turns around revealing his eyes changing to bright yellow and you hear the "assuming direct control" quote from ME2.  A small dialogue occurs after which the final "boss" fight takes place with you and T.I.M.  Perhaps as side enemies, keepers can come charging in from somewhere and attack as well. lol

As the final battle concludes, this is where your "War Assets" come into play. 

Outcome 1 (Failure):  If you didn't have enough, you hear Admiral Hackett over your comm.  The voice is broken up and static filled.  You can make out him yelling at you that they can't hold on any longer.  You rush over to the control panel to initiate the weapon, but it's to late.  You see Harbinger crash through Admiral Hackett's ship and fire on the Crucible.  Meanwhile, you also here the rest of your team that you left on the planet cry out as they are overwhelmed by Reaper ground forces and all killed.  And finally as you watch the Crucible along with what's left of the fleet be destroyed,  you hear the foot steps of endless waves of Reaper ground forces marching up the hall.  You fight them till you die.

Outcome 2 (Partial Victory):  You hear Admiral Hackett over the comm.  This time his voice is clear, but he is yelling that they don't have much time left.  They are about to be overrun and won't be able to defend the Crucible much longer.  You race to the control panel and fire the weapon!  Killing the Reapers and winning the war.  The amount of "War Assets" you attain in this scenario will determine how many of your squad survived the battle.    If your total is just above the minimum required to attain the partial victory, after the Reapers are destroyed, you suddenly realize you have been mortally wounded.  You die shortly after victory is attained in the arms of one of the squad mates you brought with you.  In the case where Admiral Hacket dies, (see point system below) Harbinger crashes through his ship like in the fail scenario, killing him.  However, Shepard activates the Crucible just seconds before Harbinger can close the distance and fire on the weapon.

Outcome 3 (Total Victory):  In this rare case scenario, if you have achieved an insanely large amount of "War Assets", you gain the perfect ending.  Total Victory.  You hear Admiral Hacket over the comm.  His voice is clear and relatively calm albeit firm.  He says something like, "Shepard where are you?  We're holding ok, but we can't hold indefinitely.  Get a move on!"  You approach the control panel, ignite the Crucible thus killing the Reapers and winning the war.  You get to return to the rest of your friends and LI.

Example of point system:

Fail = 4,000 points or less
Shepard + 7 squad mates (on the ground, including LI) + Admiral Hackett die + 4 wounded + severe fleet losses = 4,001-4,400 points
Shepard + 6 Squad mates (on the ground, including LI) die  + 4 wounded + severe fleet losses = 4,401-4,800 points
Shepard + 5 Squad mates (on the ground, NOT including LI) die  + 4 wounded + heavy fleet losses = 4,801-5,200 points
4 Squad mates (on the ground, NOT including LI) die  + 4 wounded + heavy fleet losses = 5,201-5,600 points
3 Squad mates (on the ground, NOT including LI) die  + 4 wounded + moderately heavy fleet losses = 5,601-6,000 points
2 Squad mates (on the ground, NOT including LI) die  + 4 wounded + moderately heavy fleet losses = 6,001-6,400 points
1 Squad mates (on the ground, NOT including LI) die  + 4 wounded + moderately heavy fleet losses = 6,401-6,800 points
Perfect Victory + moderate fleet losses = 6,801 points or more

Characters I would have present for choice before (actually) going up to the Citadel:

1. Anderson
2. Ashley / Kaiden
3. Liara
4. Tali
5. Wrex
6. Grunt
7. Garrus
8. Jack
9. Miranda
10. Samara / Morinth
11. Jacob
12. James
13. EDI

Now in the event that some of these characters are not available (due to maybe being killed in an earlier game), the death count should remain the same for whatever "War Asset" point total they have and the amount of wounded would be decreased.  The characters that die, can either be chosen randomly (outside of the LI of course) or can be chosen based on how much interaction has occured between shepard an the characters (assuming some characters were not that engage in conversation with the player due to lack of interest).  Should the latter option for choosing who dies be decided upon, I would have the closest characters to the player die first up to half the number required to die.  the rest can be chosen randomly.I feel this would create a stronger sense of loss and a better feeling of what this war really cost, than simply killing off character the player didn't really care about first anyway.  It would also create a stronger desire to want to do better and achieve a higher score.

As for the weapon itself.  It could simply be as how the destroy option in the current ending shows it.  The Reapers suddenly short circuit and fall to the ground dead.  This destructive "signal" or "blast" is shot through the relays to destroy all the reapers galaxy wide, while leaving the relays and the citadel in tact.

So In short:

In the fail outcome, Shepard along with everyone else is destroyed.  Cue up next cycle...
In middle outcome, Shepard and many of his team could die, but the reapers are destroyed and the galaxy as a whole is saved.
In the perfect ending, Shepard and all of his team survive, (though some will still be wounded) the reapers are destroyed and the galaxy is saved. Cue up party music and drinks all around at the nearest bar mentioned by one of the characters!

[res27772]

Oh, and another thing I want explained, as much as anything else, is where this child-AI came from... if 'it' created the Reapers, who created this AI in the first place? It's just utterly bizarre to have this completely new 'character' come in right at the very end to play the part of the Bond villain.