7052 réponses à ce sujet

[ToneFish]

tobito113 wrote...

glacier1701 wrote...

 Then you should educate yourself about polls about which there is a lot of information on the internet. Basically most market/poll/survey companies poll 1.000 people for their opinions on an issue. From the statistics analysis which stems from a theory 300 years old (and which has held up for that long) the fact is that the results of polling those people will have a margin of error of +/- 3% for 95% of the time. .

Wrong, that marging of error asumes that the poll is completly random, the fact that voluntary polls will attract more people who dislike the product is a good argument against the idea that the poll was completly random.

<--- Took statistic classes

tobito113 is right.  For that to work you need to poll 1000 random Mass Effect gamers, not 1000 which hangs in a forum for those who are unhappy with the ending!  

Modifié par ToneFish, 18 mars 2012 - 03:11 .

[glacier1701]

tobito113 wrote...

glacier1701 wrote...

 Then you should educate yourself about polls about which there is a lot of information on the internet. Basically most market/poll/survey companies poll 1.000 people for their opinions on an issue. From the statistics analysis which stems from a theory 300 years old (and which has held up for that long) the fact is that the results of polling those people will have a margin of error of +/- 3% for 95% of the time. Granted that for the polls there are additional factors that have to be looked at that may bias the results but once the poll sample reaches 10,000 (which is has in the polls I've seen) the margin of error is now +/- 1%. 

  As shown above the polls do seem to correlate well and thus are good proof that 80+% of the player population of ME3 did not like the ending. This is a figure that is most probably being shown by BioWare's market researchers to their top people (Casey Hudson in particular) because it really means that ANY misstep in handling the problem could be catastrophic for the company. After all 1 negative opinion by a player translates into 67 people (another figure published by market researchers when they discuss how opinions affect other potential customers) being told about it and who are now much less likely to buy from the company. If the numbers of games shipped is correct and allowing for wastage etc there are perhaps 2 million people who dislike the endings which means that potentially 100 million people will hear about it and be less likely to buy the game or anything else from BioWare. These are numbers that should scare BioWare - quite literally this is their entire target population for games in the ME universe.

Wrong, that marging of error asumes that the poll is completly random, the fact that voluntary polls will attract more people who dislike the product is a good argument against the idea that the poll was completly random.

<--- Took statistic classes

 Yup in a random poll. However I did mention that there are other factors in these polls that could bias the outcome. Yet we have old polls on other topics that match up well from this forum with those on other sites and the fact that polls on this issue ALSO match up well with those on other sites. Still not 100% proof I agree but it does show that the figures we have are real ones and not something that is totally fake.

[Kanon777]

Cloud Windfoot Omega wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cant say this is enough, even if you didnt plan this:

INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!

Please just pretend thats the idea you were going for and make this PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAASE

pretend? thats waht really happened LALLALLAA  shut up LALLAALALLA

I really doubt that they made those endings just to pull a prank (and cause a huge pr storm and lose sales) but i will admit that the indoc theory is AMAZING and the best way to remake the endings while saving face, it has no plotholes and solves many misteries of the ending (like how sheppard wakes up on the same place he fell, or why he managed to open the citadel even tho he never touched the console)

[MoSa09]

On a more general note, neither of these 2 ideas fit into the theme of the Mass Effect series and should be changed, on a general level:

Mac Walters on the Star Child/Reapers
"Originally,
with the catalyst, the star child at the end of the game, I had written
that much more in the guise of a investigative style conversation, where
there is something he tells you but then, you get to ask a bunch of
questions and you get your questions answered. But then me and Casey
talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you
the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you
don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't
need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we
intentionally left those out"

and

On Deciding the End of the Game
The illusive man boss
fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. 'One night
walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end
with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the
page.'

In truth the final bits of dialogue were debated right up
until the end of 2011. Martin sheen's voice-over session for the
illusive man, originally scheduled for August, was delayed until
mid-November so the writers would have more time to finesse the ending.

And
even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an
endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's
movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped
because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement
alongside dialogue choices).

Both quotes taken from this thread: http://social.biowar...index/9999272/1, namely from the poster "Abisco".


Both quotes are originally from the App "The Final Hours of ME 3.

To begin with the second, "lots of speculation" runs contrary to bringing an end to the Shepard story arc imo. You either do the one, or the other. The speculative ending does work well on certain media like Shyamalan movies or series like Lost, where people know before what they are getting into. But turning a classical plot around in the final  ten minutes of a 170 hours gaming experience (for me)  does not work. So talking about changes, stick with your guns in terms of storytelling, and drop the speculation.

And to mention the first, the idea of "the player doesn't need to know" runs contrary to what an rpg is about. This doesn't have to mean i need to get the answer, both Sovereign and Harbinger refuses to answer certain questions or simply explain i wouldn't understand anyway. But for gods sake, i can ask at least. Deleting facts, even the options to question for facts, in an ending sequence that pops out of the blue is not the way to go in an rpg.

[MikeVentris]

ToneFish wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

glacier1701 wrote...

 Then you should educate yourself about polls about which there is a lot of information on the internet. Basically most market/poll/survey companies poll 1.000 people for their opinions on an issue. From the statistics analysis which stems from a theory 300 years old (and which has held up for that long) the fact is that the results of polling those people will have a margin of error of +/- 3% for 95% of the time. .

Wrong, that marging of error asumes that the poll is completly random, the fact that voluntary polls will attract more people who dislike the product is a good argument against the idea that the poll was completly random.

<--- Took statistic classes

tobito113 is right.  For that to work you need to poll 1000 random Mass Effect gamers, not 1000 which hangs in a forum for those who are unhappy with the ending!  

No, not necessarily. How much disappointment with other projects? They do not collect a greater number of the disappointment. And that means disappointment with this project, the percentage is much higher than others. That should be enough.

Modifié par MikeVentris, 18 mars 2012 - 03:19 .

[Cloud Windfoot Omega]

tobito113 wrote...

Cloud Windfoot Omega wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cant say this is enough, even if you didnt plan this:

INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!!

Please just pretend thats the idea you were going for and make this PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAASE

pretend? thats waht really happened LALLALLAA  shut up LALLAALALLA

I really doubt that they made those endings just to pull a prank (and cause a huge pr storm and lose sales) but i will admit that the indoc theory is AMAZING and the best way to remake the endings while saving face, it has no plotholes and solves many misteries of the ending (like how sheppard wakes up on the same place he fell, or why he managed to open the citadel even tho he never touched the console)

LALLALA shut u p LALALLA

[Blue Liara]

I'm guessing a lot of people have seen this already but its is a pretty cool reinterpretation of the ending. Still has the star child but you basically tell him where to stick it and you beat the reapers conventionally. Shows how all the war Assets have an impact on the conventional defeat of the Reapers. That doesn't do justice to it though it is a very cool well thought out ending MUST READ IMO.   

arkis.deviantart.com/art/Mass-Effect-3-Alternate-Endings-SPOILERS-289902125

Modifié par Blue Liara, 18 mars 2012 - 03:19 .

[jorune24]

I’m certain I’m not going to add anything that hasn’t already been said and said better by others, but it is a rare thing to have the thoughts and feelings of the fans of a work so valued by said work’s creators so much that it is actually asked for, so I thought I’d add my two cents.

Firstly I’d like to start off by saying I love the Mass Effect series, I think the universe of the franchise is one of the most rich, complex, colourful and intriguing science fiction universes in all mediums and is also my own personal favourite. The story is compelling and dramatic and the characters are layered and engaging, the writing and quality of the games being consistently strong with the fan’s passion and emotional investment in the franchise being a testament to that strength.. With each instalment the gameplay has improved, becoming even more fun and immersive than the previous game yet each remains enjoyable and full of replay value.
Mass Effect 3 is no different and in my humble opinion the best of the series. The gameplay struck a great balance between the strengths of the previous two games and story was full of incredible moments both small and large that were epic, exciting, funny, heart-warming and heart-breaking. The biggest criticism I could make of the game is that I wish there was more of it and I had more time with these characters I have grown to love.

That being said now brings us to the elephant in the room which are the polarising and controversial endings. My own feelings on the endings, by which I mean the final three choices and their aftermath, can best be described as conflicted. I didn’t hate them as others have or find them terrible, but neither did I love them. All in all I was left feeling unsatisfied, as though there was a climax but not a resolution or denouement. Instead of a definitive conclusion where most things are wrapped up or even an open-ending, it felt like an ambiguous cliff-hanger that left us with more questions than answers. The final decision the player makes in the game leads to the most massive, galaxy-changing event in the entire story and apart from the end of the reaper threat and the stranding of the Normandy the effect and ramifications of that decision are left in the dark. What happens to all the races back on their home-worlds without the relays? What are the aliens who joined the fight to take back Earth going to do? What are the characters we’ve come to know and love going do with the rest of their lives if they survived? Players get no hints or clues to answer these questions about the future of the world and the people in it that they care about and have grown so invested in. Off the top of my head the closest comparison I can think of to how the Mass Effect 3 endings felt like would be the ending to Knights of the Old Republic 2, however that ending actually was bad and I admit I don’t really remember it all that well.

Now I’m personally against the idea of consumers demanding an artist change their creation because of something they may not like and think creators should never feel obligated to do so, yet video games are a unique breed in how players become part of the process and also the advent of patches, updates and downloadable content makes games, unlike other art forms, fluid and changeable. I can see both sides of the argument and find myself torn.

However, since this thread is for feedback and suggestions here are my own thoughts and ideas for your consideration. Instead of changing the endings why not simply make additions to them with an epilogue of some kind which addresses these unanswered questions. For example games like the Baldur’s Gate: Throne of Bhaal and Dragon Age: Origins did this effectively with simple walls of text along with maybe a picture sometimes that gave players an idea of the future of these respective worlds and the characters in them. These simple epilogues gave player’s something tangible for the ramifications of their decisions as well as sense of accomplishment I would argue. Something similar could be implemented just as simply or part of something grander and more complex but either way what I believe is desired yet felt to be missing is resolution and without resolution there is no catharsis.

Apart from that all I have is a few small complaints and nit-picks. Firstly, the Normandy in transit through a relay when the blast hits it seems implausible without a reason for the ship leaving Shepard, Earth and the battle. This could be fixed with a line of dialogue explaining it somehow though, such as Joker being ordered to go back to a second front out of a belief Shepard had failed. Secondly, unless Ashley (or Tali presumably) are romanced than Liara is one of the faces Shepard has flashbacks of when he makes his final decision regardless of whether she was romanced or not and those who romanced characters such as Miranda, Jack or Kelly feel as though their choice isn’t represented despite romances being a large part of the game (N.B. I am unaware if this is the case with the romances of a female Shepard or not). Lastly, my biggest gripe which is mostly an irritation is that game guides including the prima official guide say that at least 4000+ effective military strength is required for players to attain the bonus of Shepard’s survival to the “Destroy” ending but even with the maximum possible amount of war assets from all three games it is impossible to break this number as it currently stands in single-player without engaging in the galaxy-at-war features such as multiplayer or Infiltrator and Datapad (Which are only available iOS users) to increase galactic readiness despite being previously indicated that this wasn’t required to get all possible endings.

As for possible future content such as DLC, what I would love to see would be a way to have more to do with the Mass Effect 2 squad-mate characters who weren’t squad-mates in Mass Effect 3, whether it’s a mission similar to Lair of the Shadow Broker or maybe even the ability to have them as a squad-mate similar to Kasumi and Zaeed in Mass Effect 2. That is assuming of course t it doesn’t conflict with their established story role in Mass Effect 3.

To conclude I’d just like to say thank you for the Mass Effect series and congratulations for the tremendous achievement of creating such an unprecedented and unique gaming experience. If I had one wish it would simply to be for more of what you’ve given us.

[bucyrus5000]

To start with a bit of sugar, I love the Graal Spike Thrower. It has a statistical advantage perfect for the Shepard Vanguard. Also it's appearance and animation are perfect.

I agree with most of the other ending criticisms here. I'd add that I find the Starchild character a problem. Why would Shepard accept the word of his adversary? I'd much rather see an AI or preserved unaltered Keeper species character, someone who Shepard can trust and hates the Reapers as much as he does.

[Kanon777]

Cloud Windfoot Omega wrote...

LALLALA shut u p LALALLA

I know you are joking but even if you werent i like to argue with you lol

Anyway the devs responses so far seems like they really wanted the ending to be like this and got taken by surprise over the reaction.

The fact that they are ASKING for feedback shows that they have no clue how to fix what they did , if it was all part of the plan they would be talking about it already... 

[JRISDON]

I honestly have no problem with the ending as it is.  I will say, though, that I really appreciated the ending cards for the original Dragon Age that spelled out what happened to the different races based on the decisions that you made throughout the game (like how Orzammar's future changes depending on whether you supported Bhelen or Harrowmont).  Most of the watercooler discussion after that game was around what happened for each person (did the dwarven girl ever join the Circle?).  

I would love to see a similar epilogue here that tells you whatever happens to the different planets/races (particulary since they are all cut off now without having the mass relays and a lot of the leadership and military is stuck in the Sol system).  A simple one-liner about some of the key side players would even be cool (e.g. Conrad Verner, Aria T'Loak).

A lot of the feedback that I've read has to do with a lot of nitpicking (e.g. mass relays exploding should destroy their system, how do the crew members get back on board the Normandy).  If you really wanted to clean those up, a few tweaks to the scene at the end should do the trick.  Show your last two squadmates being dragged back to safety and then brought aboard the Normandy and Shepard getting out one final order out to Joker to bug out and save the team.  Have the mass relays create mini-black holes to absorb the energy released and then fade away or something.

I don't want to see the ending massively re-written; I wouldn't want to cheapen Shepard's sacrifice.  

[Hendrik.III]

Second reply of mine, I thought I'd add the things I liked instead of just that which I didn't like.

1) The general atmosphere in the game? That was just PERFECT. In the beginning I truly felt like it just would never happen, felt guilty about running around the citadel with so many dying on earth each minute. Near the Thessia mission with the crucible almost completed - you thought you were going to make it.

2) Squad members: I liked James, he was new and fit right into the Normandy crew. I loved how the comradery between Garrus and Shep was played out. Tali had clearly grown in personality, and Ashley was still wrestling with Shep having been with Cerberus. As principled as she is, I did not expect otherwise. EDI was interesting, though the amount of rack was a bit too much. Seriously, the only woman with a modest chest on board was Tali. Welcome on board, Commander Heffner.

3) Guns! You did that well. Tweaking for damage and capacity, I truly felt like I could build my own arsenal. I had one gun for taking down shields, one for heavily armoured enemies and my main gun to destroy whatever decided to run into my view. I had to change it regularly as new enemies started to come into the game, that became less near the end - but that was not a problem.

4) Banshees. I hate them. Fear them. If one addressed itself to be in the vicinity with that icy shriek I felt like "Oh god, not banshees!".

5) Darkness/flashlight. On Tuchanka and in the Ardat-Yakshi monastery... you just knew something was going to happen that you were NOT going to like. In the monastery, one of your squadmates accidently kicking something? Good call.

6) Citadel/Normandy. During the game you used change in activity to address the state of things. refugees pouring in, people asking questions that can't be answered. I like finding my crewmates on different spots in the ship.


Please keep listening to us. I have faith that you can sort this out somehow, and the amount of anger, venting and threats on this forum just shows how much we have come to love the franchise. We're serious about this, though - but flexible as well. Looking forward to an official statement from BW.

Thanks,
Hen

[TheRealMithril]

I have a suggestion for future releases:

Select a few from the fanbase, have them sign NDA and let them be part of the evaluation process. Maybe this can help avoid future debacles like this. Because it is very easy to be blinded by your own process. Sometimes having an outside view can help correct things before it is too late.

[Phobius9]

I like this guys idea for an ending/epilogue:

[TCJester2112]

Valk72 wrote...

 I'll be totally honest, for now the game has absolutely no replay value for me because of the ending. For the same reason, i don't see the point to buy DLC.

Sad part is, they blew a golden opportunity. 

Not sure if anyone's brought this up, but if so feel free to ignore.

Anyway...

In the past, Bioware had a sterling reputation for replay value, allowing players to experience multiple endings using different characters and classes. So here’s a silly idea: If the purpose is to generate extra cash flow off downloadable content, why not give players the multiple endings they expected and create DLCs tailor made for each unique ending? The vast majority will replay the game anyway to experience different scenarios, which increases the likelihood they’ll purchase DLCs to enhance the individual stories.

Everybody gets what they want.

The players get unique endings, which in turn gives Bioware an opportunity to market unique content.       

Modifié par TCJester2112, 18 mars 2012 - 03:37 .

[I RJay I]

 I liked all the reunions with teammates, and the fact that it was not all airy fairy... People (Mordin, Thane, Legion, Kelly) died, but I was also able to save others.  This was great because I never knew who I was going to save...

I liked that the squad moved around the ships and communicated with eachother, having something new to say almost every time I went to visit them.  However, I would have liked a couple more missions to do with the squad, I thought Miranda, Jacob and Grunt got a bit of a raw deal as they barely made an impact on the game at all.  After a Miranda LI and a Grunt Bromance (not as awesome as Garrus though) it was a shame for them to have such little part in the game.  (Possible DLC?... But I'll only buy it if the endings are changed)

And now to the ending.  If the Indoctrination theory is true then we are left with an unfinished story, which we were told we would not be.  The Reapers are still alive, Shepard is still alive... The game is not over.  

If the ending was supposed to be taken on face value then it is filled with plotholes, for example, how did the squad teleport to the normandy? Why was Joker running from the battle? How did Anderson get up before you whilst going up afterwards? Why didn't he stop to help you if he went up after? And countless others.  Not to mention that we aren't told how everybody else was getting along, as you only see your squad on the Normandy, what about Grunt, Wrex, Samara, Ashley, Liara, etc.  Are they dead, or did Joker use space magic to pick them up too?
I also was not too happy about the change in the Reapers motivation, it's well known that the Dark Energy and Mass Effect fields was their original motivation, I think that this was a great motivation and the game is even called Mass Effect...  This choice would have made it far more difficult for me to press 'destroy' as it would make me think, the Reapers have to do this.  What if we can't find a way?  Whereas the current ending is pretty contradictory, synthetics (Reapers) using synthetics (Geth) to wipe of organics out before synthetics (Geth) wipe out organics... Dafuq?  You also attempted to justify it by saying 'well the synthetics would wipe out everything, while the reapers are only wiping out the dominant races, so life will continue'  But to me that sounds like you just had to think of something to make that story not sound completely stupid so you could still use it.  And that choice made it easy to destroy the Reapers, because I thought that well, we could just not make synthetics if we know they'll kill us.  Or build in uber failsafes or something.  We can easily work around that problem.  We don't NEED to make synthetics, so we just don't and everybody wins.

Overall, it was a great game.  Not my favourite of the series (that's still ME2).  As a single player, it's my least favourite, it would be joint with ME1... But the ending just ruined it.

It has some problems, such as dodgy animations in places, some strange voice acting on rare occasions - "STEEEEEEEVE!!!!!!!!!" "I'm ok commander" "you sure?" lolwut?, the fact that space bar does everything.  And the journal are the main ones, which I'm willing to overlook.  But the ending was too poorly executed for me.

I hope you guys listen to us, we aren't fighting against Bioware, we are fighting for Mass Effect

[Cigarette Smoking Man]

A lot of people are going into a lot of detail on what they think the ending needs to be. A lot of people are going over changing complete paths in the game to achieve their own experience. Some of this needs to be balanced out with what is achievable and what is probably unachievable. Not going to go into point by point breakdowns of escapist fantasy into Love Interests, because I don't think those changes can be made.

What I do think can be done, however, is retooling the ending and fixing minor pathing/interface/tracking information.

The Journal/Tracking of Side Quests

This is an issue that makes it rather difficult to turn in my planet scans because you don't know what level of the Citadel you need to go to turn them in. There is no place to check what you have in an inventory to know what you have to turn in. This leads to many unnecessary trips to Citadel which can chip away at a fraught paced and intense experience. I do enjoy the Citadel's lay out and the feeling that it is teeming with life/struggle. It's a fantastic hub world. I just wish I could experience without this naggling issue in my mind every time I go.

The Ending

Lots of other people have said a lot of things as to what they want this to be, whether it is retooling the entire sequence in London, or just the aspect where you take an elevator ride up to meet the Star Child/Harbinger. You have some who speak real highly of Shepard dying as a tragic hero. You have many more speaking of a happy ending involving your romantic interest and blue babies and houses on Rannoch or enjoying a beer on the porch in some villa with Major Alenko. Or, at the very least, better explanation as to what is taking place.

The issue of debate and questioning and discussion is one that is earned through a narrative throughout a story that leads to this conclusion. This, however, fails in the ending stretch not because people are questioning what takes place, or what they gained, or what has just occurred, or because the audience isn't bright enough to put together the pieces before them. It has everything to do with challenging the very narrative structure the Bioware staff has so carefully crafted for almost a decade.

The critical reason why Mass Effect resonates so well with so many of us has everything to do with the fact that you and your staff have done more than just give us two dimensional characters and a story based upon deciding what philosophical decisions to make in circumstances in a vacuum. No. You created characters like Garrus, who has an arc where he goes from a questioning novice who wants to cut through red tape at C-Sec, to one of the finest examples of his people in a time of absolute desperation. Our experiences with him, from dealing with Dr. Saelon, are great. But with Sidonis, we are given an ultimate crucible in which to make a decision. Garrus is right. Garrus is wrong. Do we help him kill a Judas? Do we want to save him from a path of brutal justice? It isn't just that, though. Those are partial distinctions and paths that might have been written, but you and your staff trusted US, the player, to not only make the decision, but to frame it. You gave us a palette with Shepard to take on situations and circumstances not just as a player of a video game, but by turning this whole linking story into an episodic creation, the ultimate create-your-own-story.

Because you trusted us. You let gave us the tools and the materials and you gave us the ability to weave magic.

With this level of trust comes an untold amount of personal reverance and respect. It comes with a strong amount of investment in what we play. It's why, when we reached the conclusion of Shepard, our Shepard, whether it was a he or she, whether it was paragon or renegade or something inbetween, whether it was someone who'd only played the third game or the second game to the third game or all three, you were doing more than just bringing us to the end of video game. The untold nuance, again, through your studio's trust, brought to the end a character with more variables than you can program code for, because these extensions of character our our own. And many of us don't just thank you for this, we love you for it.

Empowerment: The Reason For The Ending's Failure

This strong sense of personal investment comes with a price tag, and your studio has delievered to the audience twice. In both Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, we are faced with an impossible path, yet through our sheer determination, we pushed through Saren and his Geth, we pushed through the Collectors, and made it to the other side.

One of the great aspects of Mass Effect 3's creature design is the absolute horror show it presented the player. We'd seen husks, and the entire process is scary as is. But to see the shock troops that were made? You guys literally created a Hell, and painted broad brush strokes that pushed in self doubt. Throughout the game, you've humanized the effects of this war so well. We see Shepard doubting herself/himself, we see so many emotionally poignant moments just talking about this final journey and what should happen if we don't make it out. The scene with Liara, where she asks you what to put for your entry into her beacon, makes my heart ache just thinking about it, It's so powerful. You guys were so successful at getting us to cry and laugh and feel a wide range of emotions never associated with gaming that you deserve credit. But heart sickness only works if we are given a strong sense that it was all worth it in the end.

The ending Mass Effect 3 hurts us because it makes the journey and all those tears and laughs seem unworth it. Hopeless.

Mass Effect 1 and 2 made the player feel hopeless, or in extreme danger, especially near the ending sequence. However, with it came a sense of power. When you finally had your chance to push forward against the tide, it mattered. We were honed in. I will never forget how tightly I clenched my controller in that initial push against the Collectors for the Suicide Mission. How driven I was. It might be the most focused I can remember ever being in a game. Tali's life was on the line in those vents, and she was GOING to make it through. The Collectors kept coming, but they were no match. Slaughtered, almost immediately, as they tried to stop our push. Our onslaught. We might die here, but we were going to take them down with us.

Mass Effect 1, the same feeling of push exists from Ilos all the way through. Nothing will stop us. Nothing. All the way to Saren, who finally has to acknowledge us as more than mere pest.

Touching down in London, I remember getting swamped with perhaps the most intense fire in any Mass Effect game ever. We were walking into the maw of Hell itself, and it was biting us. There is no push. We can't push. The sheer force of the Reapers is too much to take on. But this plays into the thematic intent of the game; you can't stop them the conventional way. The who process is just wearing us down to a fine nub. We get beat up, smashed up, feel the effects of the combat unlike ever before. Every step forward is filled with peril. This force is unstoppable. Yet we keep pushing forward. All the way to the Relay, where we get hit with Harbingers beam and game over.

The reason Mass Effect games are remembered and discussed in such high reverence as far as their conclusions are concerned has everything to do with empowering the player on that last push. I love how hard you made it, how it's literally as though you ground me up. The exhaustion is overpowering. But so much power, so much intensity, it must be channeled in a manner that doesn't completely break the will of the player, but taxes them unlike ever before.

Maybe it is a final battle after we breathe, having fought off indoctrination to bring an end to the cycle. Maybe our actions have broken our spirit in the end and this force consumes us. But the thing is, you've trusted us so much with your toys, and what we want is closure. We want to leave this world with some sense of empowerment, because when we leave this game, the feeling of empowerment makes us feel better. It makes us smile. It makes us fire this game up again. It makes us go all the way through from the beginning to hit this point and win. Or lose. Or something in between. I want to win. I want those beers with Major Alenko. Maybe I have a character who loses in the end. Maybe I have a character who sacrifices herself/himself for everyone.

We want choices. Because, with choices, we are helpless to playin them again and again. We are diehards. We buy your games because your trust in us is given back to you. There might be a lot of people out there that have taken negative stances, but the bottom line is, delivering an ending that satisfies us, this franchise lives in the same sphere as Star Trek and first Star Wars trilogy rather than being a joke like The Matrix and the second Star Wars trilogy.

Mind you, I'm not telling you what to do.

I'm trusting you, like you've trusted me.

Please, just make this right. Make this journey mean something.

[MikeVentris]

TheRealMithril wrote...

I have a suggestion for future releases:

Select a few from the fanbase, have them sign NDA and let them be part of the evaluation process. Maybe this can help avoid future debacles like this. Because it is very easy to be blinded by your own process. Sometimes having an outside view can help correct things before it is too late.

There are a large number of beta testers. I can not believe that none of them expressed their negative opinions about the ending. This is what initially makes me think that they (the developers) are planned in advance.

[TheRealMithril]

MikeVentris wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

I have a suggestion for future releases:

Select a few from the fanbase, have them sign NDA and let them be part of the evaluation process. Maybe this can help avoid future debacles like this. Because it is very easy to be blinded by your own process. Sometimes having an outside view can help correct things before it is too late.

There are a large number of beta testers. I can not believe that none of them expressed their negative opinions about the ending. This is what initially makes me think that they (the developers) are planned in advance.

I know they have, but what I am referring to is much earlier in the process; The actual planning phase. Because fans are a different breed than beta testers. These are people who cares about the lore. And since they don't have to succumb to office politics, they are free to voice their opinions in a much more direct fashion. That can be quite liberating, as they might voice opinions staffers might not dare to.

[StillOverrated]

Don't know about the rest, maybe they agree here or maybe they don't. I mainly want four things here:
1.- I want my choices back.If you're keeping the starchild god harbinger whatever thing, I want the chance to have Shep either point out that its logic is flawed (especially so if I managed to broker peace between the Geth and the Quarians and if I treated EDI well enough to have her alter her programming to risk nonfunctionality in order to protect Joker) or that it has no right to interfere with life, regardless of what mistakes we may or may not make. Or something. I want the chance to defy it. Just like I did with TIMmy on ME2.
2.- I wanna see my war assets at work. Again, just like the suicide mission from ME2. Seeing my people fight and win was awesome beyond words. I wanna see that again. I keep bringing ME2 because, to me, that game was almost perfect.
3.- I want a chance at a happy ending and a chance at the worst most horrible possible ending. I don't NEED a happy ending. What I do need is the knowledge that if I work hard enough for one I'll get it and if I don't,The United Galactic Fleet will fail horribly. Maybe Shep could be killed after seeing his/her love interest's mangled bloodied corpse and his/her friends being slaughtered in increasingly horrible ways. Or something.
4.- Fix dem plotholes! Arr! I'm sure people have pointed them out repeatedly.

[Grasich]

TheRealMithril wrote...

MikeVentris wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

I have a suggestion for future releases:

Select a few from the fanbase, have them sign NDA and let them be part of the evaluation process. Maybe this can help avoid future debacles like this. Because it is very easy to be blinded by your own process. Sometimes having an outside view can help correct things before it is too late.

There are a large number of beta testers. I can not believe that none of them expressed their negative opinions about the ending. This is what initially makes me think that they (the developers) are planned in advance.

I know they have, but what I am referring to is much earlier in the process; The actual planning phase. Because fans are a different breed than beta testers. These are people who cares about the lore. And since they don't have to succumb to office politics, they are free to voice their opinions in a much more direct fashion. That can be quite liberating, as they might voice opinions staffers might not dare to.

One possible way this could have gone through testers without getting "noticed" is that an unfortunately large number of gaming companies really don't give a damn about their QA's ideas outside of "are there bugs?" I don't know if Bioware is like this, and I certainly hope not... but it is a possibility. Otherwise though you're right, there is absolutely no way this got through testing without someone saying "Hey, people are going to absolutely hate this."

[Eoj318]

 I know i replied already, but i needed to post this.  PLEASE READ THIS. It's intelligent, and even if most of us aren't quite capable of putting our complaints into such form, it is a very accurate description of all of the issues we have with the ending...essentially why it just doesn't make ANY sense.

https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true 

Modifié par Eoj318, 18 mars 2012 - 03:51 .

[hanshotfirs]

I think I , like most people in this thread, loved the game itself. Still love it, even with my issues with the ending.

Things I really enjoyed:

1) The gameplay. I'm a run and gun type of gamer, and ME1 let me do that perfectly. Loved not having to worry about ammo, just overheating my weapon. It gave me a great sense of power, and (as a huge Halo gamer as well) it felt comfortable. Of course, that meant I was playing it alot like I did Halo, staying out in combat until I was JUST ABOUT to die, then take cover so I could recharge. No real strategy required. ME2 I felt was too cover-based, but ME3 finds (in my opionion) the perfect balance.

2) The humour. Yes, this is a dark and brooding game where you're trying to resolve centuries-old conflicts and prejudices to enlist help to stop galaxy-wide genocie, but this had the most laugh out loud moments of any of the games! EDI joking about forgetting to recylce the O2, Ashley drunk in starboard observation, Male Shepard being shot down by Traynor... I thought it had a great balance between the tragic and hilarious.

3) The scenery. All of the worlds/stations/ships look great and feel natural. The ambient conversations really added to the immersion for me.


OK, so now I get to things I didn't like. Which is really, one thing:

The Ending.

Alot of people have posted their issues with the plot/lore/logistic issues witht he ending, so there's really no point in going over it again. I would like to offer my $0.02 though on how to amend the ending to something that I feel would be more in the vein of ME.

1) Options. Of course, none of the options we're presented are too desireable. We can only destroy all synthetic life, try to control the reapers, or force "synthesis?" I don't buy it. Regardless of how people have played their games, Shepard has always marched to the beat of his/her own drum. I feel that any Shepard, in this moment, would have looked at starchild and said "screw you, I have my own option..."

Of course, I'm a (hopeful) supporter of the Indoctrination theory, so that whole part kind of makes sense if you follow that.

Anyways, my issue with the ending is that, unless you use your imagination, you don't get any REAL sense of what actually happens after the choice. I believe that after I chose destroy, Shepard woke up in London after being hit by the blast, finds his team, and continues the fight with a clear mind. But how is that the end? It's a continuation. 

And if you choose the other two options, then again, we're left with having to imagine the ending... but that's still a continuation, not a conclusion.

Now, I'm not a writed for Bioware, so, while I have my own opinions on what to do story-wise, I won't worry about putting them here. You can see one of my other posts if you're interested in that, I just don't feel like I have 

So, in keeping with the theme of sacrifice, but also triumph, that I feel ME has really been grounded in since the beginning, I have a couple of ideas of how the game can be ended.

1) Fight the reapers, lose. You didn't have enough allies and/or resources, and what allies you had were still caught up in their own issues, and didn't work well together. You go to the endgame knowing you're outmatched, but hoping for a miracle. You don't get one. Reapers win, trillions die.

2) Fight the reapers, win, but at great cost, Shepard dies. Which is how I feel the current ending (even destory) is presented in-game. The Mass Relays are all destroyed (why?) stranding everyone where they are, a lot of people will die due to lack of usable resources and available food, but the Reapers have been stopped, the cycle has been broker. While there's a lot of bad happening, there's still a little hope that the future will be better, even if it's not for our character's children or even grandchildren, etc.

3) Fight reapers, win, less cost, Shepard still dies. A lot of people die, but the Citadel survives, Mass relays survive, but Shepard still had to sacrifice him/herself to get the job done. While no happy ending for Shepard, happy ending for the teammates of Shepard, providing they survive. Yes, everyone has lost someone dear to them in one way or another, but they're still alive, and they can help rebuild the galaxy in an era of tolerance and peace.

4) Fight reapers, win, Shepard lives, LI dies. Shepard has finished the fight, but winning took the sacrifice of *insert love interest here* There have been several times throughout the series that Shepard states that (s)he couldn't have done it without the team, what better way to show this than having the one person that means the most to Shepard have to give everything to help Shepard win?

5) Fight reapers, win, Shepard & LI live. While I'm a romantic at heart and REALLY want this ending, I feel like this should the kind of challenging to achieve, though it should still be an option. I personally feel that Shepard, for all his/her hard work and helping other people with their issues, is due a happy ending and a nice long vacation on a beach somewhere, with *insert color here* babies of whatever species running around.

However the story progresses or gets resolved with whatever content, or explanation of the endings, that comes out, these are the ending options that I feel best suit the feel/theme.

Of course, this is all just my opion, but that's what this thread is all about, right?

[Grasich]

At this point I don't see how Bioware could possibly misunderstand our complaints, assuming they really are "listening". Though I suppose the only thing we can do now is keep repeating them.

As Garrus says, "Yell loud enough for long enough and eventually someone will come over to see what all the fuss is about. Whether they actually do anything about it... well, that's another matter."

If we could just get a real answer from Bioware on whether or not they actually plan to release new ending DLC or not would really put a lot of us at ease.

[solvill]

i would like somthing like this
http://i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg
choices