7052 réponses à ce sujet

[merylisk]

The point when it really struck me how thematically brilliant this game is was when Tali says, drunkenly: "When do we get to stop reacting to our parents, and start living for ourselves?"

Like, that pretty much sums it all up. The relationship between creator and created. On a macro level there's the Salarians and the Krogans, the Quarian and the Geth, the Protheans and the Asari, the Reapers/Mass Relays and all of galactic civilization. On a personal level, there's Cerberus and EDI, Liara and her mother, Miranda and her father, Jack and Cerberus, Jacob and his father, Thane and his son, Samara and her daughters, Tali and her father, the list goes on... hell, even The Illusive Man and Shepard.

It kind of sucks that the ending doesn't really tie into that very much. Or rather, it does, but in a very non-subtle, ham-fisted way that ignores most of the actual implications of the stories told in the game.

Modifié par merylisk, 18 mars 2012 - 08:26 .

[NovaM4]

Lambchopz wrote...

No idea if it's been posted yet, but here's an image of a fan made diagram imagining how choices in ME3 could have mattered in the ending. Posting because somebody asked me to.

You need to zoom in to get a better idea of it.

i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg

Bioware should really take a look at this!
and i think the fans are liking this too!

[HandsomeHobo]

Lambchopz wrote...

No idea if it's been posted yet, but here's an image of a fan made diagram imagining how choices in ME3 could have mattered in the ending. Posting because somebody asked me to.

You need to zoom in to get a better idea of it.

i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg

This is perfect! BioWare should hire whoever made this graph.

[RJDio]

"If you let shepard die Bioware..! If will never replay Mass Effect again because all the choices you have made don't count. If you still let Shepard die..."

[xcomcmdr]

hanar05 wrote...

I was just reminded of another point.

The fact that you must play multiplayer in order to have all war assets made available.
I thought we were promised that multiplayer would have no effect unless we want it to?

I did not play MP at all, and I could make my choice between all three colors.

As I understand it, it's only possible if you have more than enough war assets (I had a score of more than 6000). Correct ?

I did not choose the "destruction" ending to see if my Shepard was alive after all (even if it doesn't make sense), but I did get the Stargazer after the credits.

Modifié par xcomcmdr, 18 mars 2012 - 08:30 .

[Xellith]

Im building that house with Tali on Rannoch whether Bioware lets me or not.

[Stoko981]

The indoctrination theory shouldn't be implemented. Whatever "evidence" people have come up with was obviously not intended by BioWare, you shouldn't pick it up and run with it and make out like it was.

The main criticism, and I'm not sure how this could be dealt with, is that while you did a great job making the entire game feel tailored to your choices, the ending disregards all that. All the ending comes down to is your EMS, and even then, that only unlocks a third ending which is very similar to the other two.

So, okay, criticisms of the existing three endings.

a) They're very very similar. Apart from a circuitry texture on leaves and skin in the synergy ending, the three different colours of energy burst, what the Reapers do (fly off in two, fall down in one) and what the Citadel does (explodes in two, closes seemingly intact in one), there's literally no difference. Even the "epilogue" decades/centuries/whatever later is identical. It just makes your entire effort seem pointless, like it was all inevitable.

 They're very very vague. No word on what happened to the other races/planets apart from Earth. No clarification - did blowing up the relays wipe out the star systems they were in? I mean, you'd assume not, since you can either have Earth saved, somewhat damaged or totally wiped out, that would be a meaningless distinction if the entire Sol system exploded seconds later. Still though, it's what happened in Arrival, and how are we to know if we're not shown? Nothing showing how my squadmates - last seen rushing the conduit - made it back to the Normandy. Nothing showing if anyone else did too. Nothing showing what happened to them after landing on that planet. Nothing showing what happened to everyone on the Citadel, the Council, Aria, Refund Guy, etc. We want closure, not vagueness.

c) The future. Before release, BioWare said "keep hold of your ME3 saves!" - We knew this'd be the end of Shepard's story, but honestly, blowing up all the relays? Plus, from the way the shockwave blatantly destabilised the Normandy's FTL, it could potentially be seen as having rendered eezo-style FTL somehow impossible... We had the hope we'd have some use for those saves in the future, if not a Mass Effect 4, then something else in this universe. How exactly can we have that when there's no more "mass effect" to be seen in the galaxy? Plus, with such widely varied endings, how could an import work with a future game? No way any future game could accomodate an import where all life is part machine, or it's not.

d) Plotholes. Massive, massive plotholes. That you could drive a truck through. Some examples: The relay network covers 1% of the galaxy. Or 0.01%, I forget which, as per the ME1 codex. Are we meant to believe there's no life in the other 99% that would "inevitably" create murderous AI? What makes this 1% special? Also, there's honestly no reason that, rather than coming in whenever a species becomes sufficiently advanced and "harvesting" them all, they couldn't just come in whenever a species creates murderous AI, wipe out the murderous AI, give the organics a slap on the wrist and fly off again. That'd be a cycle too, and one which would preserve organic life from murderous synthetics. If we can come up with this stuff off the top of our heads, then either it needs changing to something that makes more sense, or we at least need the option to interrogate Star Kid, so he can tell us the answers, which brings me to...

e) Star Kid. I get that Shepard was nearly dying. But come on, he didn't have any questions? Where do you come from? How long have you been here? Who are you? If you've been here the whole time, how did you not realise and counteract the Protheans' Keeper sabotage? If you control the Reapers, why did Sovereign have to signal the Keepers to open the Citadel Relay, why didn't you know he wanted it open, and open it yourself? Stuff like that.

[DarthSliver]

Well after beating Mass Effect 3 and finally replaying ME1 via my friends 360 for the second time in along time I see why Bioware choose to the make the ending the way they did. But to that end it still isnt right and still feels discontent, Sovereigns exchange with Shepard on Virmire is what I refer to when saying I understand why Bioware choose the endings they did make. We have always had this sense of not understanding the Reapers motives from the very first game in the series to why they wipe out Advanced Civilizations from the face of the galaxy every 50k years. We also sorta always wanted to understand the logic behind the Reapers motives but the way Bioware choose to give it to us seemed for the most part to devoid everything we worked for throughout the series. The only thing that makes the ending make sense that I find is the whole indoctrination theory that has been present on this forums since the dissatisfied ending became public knowledge to the forums. I feel like most others on this forum the ending is the worst part of ME3 but I dont show high anger over it because I understand why Bioware devs choose to make those endings.

[NovaM4]

This is a thing Bioware should take a look at too!

https://docs.google....k9oMGc6MA#gid=0

[AshenSugar]

Lambchopz wrote...

No idea if it's been posted yet, but here's an image of a fan made diagram imagining how choices in ME3 could have mattered in the ending. Posting because somebody asked me to.

You need to zoom in to get a better idea of it.

i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg

Just seen this.

Perfect, absolutely perfect. I'd suggest hiring this guy...

Modifié par AshenSugar, 18 mars 2012 - 08:32 .

[survivor_686]

Geekadin wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

No idea if it's been posted yet, but here's an image of a fan made diagram imagining how choices in ME3 could have mattered in the ending. Posting because somebody asked me to.

You need to zoom in to get a better idea of it.

i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg

This is perfect! BioWare should hire whoever made this graph.

Hear,hear, hear!

[MikeVentris]

AshenSugar wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

No idea if it's been posted yet, but here's an image of a fan made diagram imagining how choices in ME3 could have mattered in the ending. Posting because somebody asked me to.

You need to zoom in to get a better idea of it.

i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg

Just seen this.

Perfect, absolutely perfect. I'd suggest hiring this guy...

Yea! This is what I want to see! 

[blast3r]

Before the attack on the Cerberus base Shepard had the final dream where he saw himself burning alongside with the child, For me this was one of they key points where i got the feeling that this time Shepard will not make it, though didn't want to believe it till the very end. My intuition didn't fail and chose the green ending due to the lack of war assets, today got the red one with 100% readiness and finally the ending felt right, Shepard probable alive, Reapers are dead, Earth is safe. Though I'm not sure if it is possible to change the ending unless Bioware has some extra endings in store. If it does, hopefully there is one with the final harbenger fight and the choice where all live happily ever after with mass relays in tact. But even more I would like to see what happens next with Normandy crew stranded on the jungle planet. Also it would be nice to see the galaxy few years after the war, the new citadel which was constructed by all races as a reminder of their great victory, beloved characters who moved on with their lives. And some Vorcha might try to get in to the next counsel by all dirty means and that is when the new Shepard specter action should come in. A likely scenario is that Bioware will give us some extra cut-scenes which will show that Shepard is alive and well and than we get additional content with few more Normandy adventures after the war.

[JohnnyG]

darkshadow136 wrote...

I will speak for myself, and I'm sure they are many that will agree.

1. We want the endings to be more varied and distinct from each other, having our choices from ME1-ME3 taken into account in the final outcome.

2. fill the plot holes, give us a real backround on the reapers and their purpose, bring Harbringer into the picture more.

3. the Rachni should have played a bigger part then what was represented in ME3

4. Galactic readiness should not be effected in the single player campaign by Multiplayer. There is a reason no other game has done this, since not everyone like Multiplayer. A person should be able to achieve 100% galactic readiness without being forced to play Multiplayer.

5. When it comes to the endings 16 variations of the same color of black does not cut it. there should be a good, not so bad, bad, and so on. But all the endings should be different and take into account our choices throughout the series, and most of all bring a closure and answer the questions we have about the reapers, and so on.

For those that ME3 is there first exposure to the ME universe, give them a DLC that alows them to make the choices they would have if they played ME1/ME2. so they can experence the same varied story as those of us that have played the whole series. This will not only give them a total experence, but also give them the bump they need and galactic readiness so they won't need to play multiplayer if they wish not too.

You guys made a DLC like that for ME2, there is no reason why you can't for ME3 as well, and you would make money on it as well.

I think most of us can agree that at least 95% of the game was perfect and griping, The plot holes, and the endings just tainted and ruined in cases the whole ME3 saga.

I don't think I could've said it any better than this, so instead of trying to re-type it into my own words, I will just say that I agree with everything he listed.

Two quick additions...

i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg

That graph represents the kinds of choices we really did want to see.  Also, please make sure the items in the document below are addressed...

docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview

Thanks.

Modifié par JohnnyG, 18 mars 2012 - 08:43 .

[WilliamDracul88]

https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

[Scoob]

eghbdgdsgh wrote...

https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

^

This is what the folks at Bioware should read. Please quote it so hopefully they do

Modifié par Scoob, 18 mars 2012 - 08:42 .

[kyban]

First, the entire game is nothing short of perfect. The Krogan, taking back Rannoch, I even loved Me2's cameos.

I'm with Bioware every step of the way with the ending... Until my crew is stranded. I think that the writers were trying to show symbolism with starting over. I think the way it was done was not a good idea. We see Joker running, which makes no sense. then they somehow crash land on a planet with oxygen... The last time we saw this scenario was with Jacobs loyalty mission, the Hugo Gernsback. Are we to believe that our crew will make it out of this situation ok? with their ship damaged, which looks like it's beyond repair.

I think the writers could have done this back on earth. Here's my example:

Keep the 3 choices, but leave destroying the relays optional (or remove that part). When the reapers either leave or fall over dead, have the camera pan around the battle field to show the aftershock. Let the tone and music reflect sadness, show the troops of earth AND in space slowly start to let everything settle in. Back on earth we see rubble and bodies... and then a slight upbeat change in musical tone, we see one of our squadmates come up from the rubble and dust themselves off. Then show him/her start to look around for other survivors. Slowly but surely we find our most loved squad members coming out of the rubble, looking hurt but alive.
Once we see that everyone, or most everyone, is ok they start to look at each other with concern. Interpret this shot however you want, I'll say that it's because they know that they lost Shepard. After they look into each others faces, light begins to creep and shine onto them. They turn and look, the camera would then cut to the horizon. The sun is rising over the battlefield. We see dead reapers or reaper tech among rubble. Life has been given a new chance, a new day begins. (Cut to a Faunts song ;p)

After credits, we see Shepard take in a deep breath. Dun Dun DUN!!!

Modifié par kyban, 18 mars 2012 - 08:49 .

[IntoTheDarkness]

This game is darn good <- it's a fact.

1. However, I really didn't want to see another mastermind behind reapers. They were presented as the pinnacle of evolution and ultimate villains from ME1, it should have remained that way because some puppet master theory is too much cliche for me to bear. Please adopt indoctrination theory and let us start at the beam as Shepard breaks free from Harbinger's indoctrination with Normandy disrupting Harbinger. And it would be even better if Crucible was the reaper trap that can emit indoctrination pulse that will bring the reapers victory. I dislike any sort of super-weapons... too artificial and deus-ex-machina like.

2. Please let us have more conversation with reapers! Sovereign was awesome and Harbinger was cool, but in ME3 we don't have enough talk with reapers. Reaper invasion is the focus of the story, and so should we have more chance to talk with them rather than illusive man.

[Leninsaurus]

EDIT: Great, that's why I usually write such things prior to copying them in here...my whole last post didn't even show up. Awesome

A LOGICAL BREAKDOWN OF WHY THE MASS EFFECT 3 ENDING MAKES NO SENSE -------->
docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview


This very well written document illustrates perfectly why the Mass Effect 3 ending, taken at face value, makes absolutely no sense and is an insult&nbsp; to the intelligence of the players. I couldn't write it any better, and&nbsp; it is worth a read.

I guess we all can agree that the things that anger and frustrate us the most about the ending are that it nullifies all the choices we have made in the previous three games, it renders everything we have done compeletely irrelevant, whether we played as a Paragon or Renegade, whether we united the aliens or divided them, all of our choices are taken away from us, only to be replaced byan inconsistent, plothole-ridden mess of an ending that doesn't give any kind of closure or sense of accomplishment.

I have many issues with the ending, but the one thing that hurst and disgusts me the most is the fact that no matter which of the nearly identical outcomes you choose, you practically finish what the Reapers have started.
As it has been established in&nbsp;Arrival, ME2, Relays, if exploding rival the force of a supernova, destroying everything in their path. And as all the relays are destroyed no matter what you choose, and ALL&nbsp;homeworld-planets are directly located in clusters that have relays, we can assume, that all sentient life has been cleanly wiped out. Save colonies, which often are not even completely selfdependent and don't have the military strength to attempt space-travel without the relays.
Besides that the combined fleets of the citadel-races are trapped on Earth, millions more to the already overpopulated Earth. Which has also been severely crippled by the war with the Reapers. That doesn't sound very promising to me. It sounds like a death sentence.
We have come to love and appreciate all the different species, the whole lore of Mass Effect and to see it wiped out like that without any chance to stop it... it is painful. It is maddening.

We all have created our Shepards, we have made decisions, we roleplayed, we loved and hated the characters, we laughed, we cried, we gladly romanced the characters... we have struggled with the decisions before us and we want closure to that. We want to see that our efforts mattered, that the endings depend on how we have played the previous games. Not every little details needs to be taken into consideration whether the war against the Reapers is a sucess or a failure, but it should be acknowledged in the end. In an epilogue, either playable or by cutscenes or conceptpaintings, but no matter how, we want to know how our struggles, our choices affect the future of the
 Mass Effect - universe. We want to see Shepard be celebrated and have a nice life with their LI, we want to see Eve and Wrex rebuilding the Krogan-race and the Quarians and Geth living in peace on their homeplanet. We also want to see how Wreav is leading a bloody war for revenge, how Geth or Quarians live, how Chaos takes over the galaxy.&nbsp;We want to see Shepard live, and we want to see the consequences when we fail to rally all troops and make the wrong decisions. Shepard can die, but it must be optional. It must be possible to let them live.

I don't know where we can go from what has already been done in the game, but I guess the easiest way would be to seize upon the Indoctrination-theory and make Shepard wake up back on Earth if they choose Destroy. Make it a last effort of Harbinger to stop Shepard and make him/her his thrall.
And THEN&nbsp;make the choices we have made during the games count. If we have done everything we could, give us the victory we wanted. Show us how the Reaper-forces are weakening, how the Krogan and Turian fleets are flattening the husk-forces, how the combined strengths of a united galaxy manages to push the Reapers back. It doesn't even need to be the ultimate victory. Hell, even if it is established that the victory took years and thousands of people gave their life in the process, it is still a very bittersweet ending. If you are so insistent on the BITTER part then make Shepard bleed out on Earth, no matter what. But because of his/her efforts make the galaxy win, or loose, which would depend on how sucessfull you were in rallying your allies.
Hell, even if the Reapers succeed no matter what, you could even give us a glimpse into the next cycle, of aliens that have discovered spacetravel and stumble upon Liara's device/memento and switch it on, and while we hear the first entry, fade to black. Even that would be more acceptable than the ending we now have.

But as I said, this would be the easiest way.
The hardest and most rewarding way would be to rewrite the whole ending. Ditch the whole Starchild/Crucible idea and let the ending only take place on Earth, with the Crucible being the ultimate gun/weapon in weakening the Reapers. Let us see what we have accomplished, show us Samara and a troop of asari smash everything with biotic combos, show us Wrex and Grunt grinning at each other and leading a horde of krogan to flatten everythin in their path, show us Jack and her students holding the line, supporting the soldiers. And make the outcome of the whole
ending dependant on how we played the games. Whether the Reapers succeed or we do, depends completely on which choices we made and if we managed to gather enough forces. Give us the great range of endings you initially promised, endings in which Shepard lives with blue babies and baby krogans and a united galaxy and endings in which the Reapers vaporize everything in their path, and any shade inbetween. You promised us just as much, so fullfill your promise.
It would be the hardest to pull off, but it would be the most fullfilling and best ending to the series and would give us the replay-value and the closure we wanted.

Modifié par Leninsaurus, 18 mars 2012 - 08:58 .

[MizzNaaa]

As I mentioned before, (sorry for the 2nd post by the way), I wanted an open ending that could leave room for us to work with.

Something like this:

meonlyred wrote...

I was hoping for an open ended ending something like.

Shepard is standing on the bridge of the Normandy over looking Earth. Scene cuts to people rebuilding, captains commanding troopers. Shepard turns to look out into the void of space. "Joker," she says with smile, "those stars are awful far away. Bring them to me."
Joker gives a light laugh, "Aye, aye, ma'am."

Or Shepard has a LI and they are alive at the end of the game, maybe this.

Shepard speaking with the heads of the allied races, human, asari, turian, salarian, etc. They are speaking of rebuilding, of alliances and hope. A ray of hope after all the pain and lose they have endured. Shepard nods and turns leaving the room. Stepping out the door she hears, "Hey."
Turning she sees love interest leaning against the wall arms cross. S/He smiles, "Ready to get out of here."
Shepard returns the smile, "Hell yeah."

Was that so hard?! No!! Give us a win or a heroic death but leave it open ended enough that we can fill in the blanks. Trying to fill in the blanks with the current ending is just depressing as hell.

It could be the 'happy ending' OPTION. I don't want to force a sort of happy ending on anyone, but I want it for my Shepard.

Modifié par MizzNaaa, 18 mars 2012 - 08:53 .

[balance5050]

"The indoctrination theory shouldn't be implemented. Whatever "evidence" people have come up with was obviously not intended by BioWare, you shouldn't pick it up and run with it and make out like it was."

Sorry but you are wrong, this was what the leaked script was going for and now BIOWARE HAS TO OWN UP TO INDOCTRINATION THEORY BECAUSE IT"S BRILLIANT!

[Silasqtx]

https://docs.google....k9oMGc6MA#gid=0

[xcomcmdr]

Scoob wrote...

eghbdgdsgh wrote...

https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

^

This is what the folks at Bioware should read. Please quote it so hopefully they do

Quoted to last. This is a very good document !

[Mordanticus]

Mordanticus online.. Greetings Bioware staff and designers.. Just wanted to throw in my two cents here on the endings for Mass Effect 3 and suggested feedback you've asked for..

Having enjoyed both previous Mass Effects and almost the entire ME3 game, I like others was disappointed with the ending of 3.. Some aspects were amazing, storywise.. Saving the Krogan at the expense of Mordin's life was a difficult choice, but truly stuck a chord with me.. Brokering peace between the Quarians and the Geth felt truly meaningful.. Losing Thane, Mordin, and Legion left me saddened, but heartened by their sacrifices and what it was we were striving to accomplish in the end..

Then came the ending.. It felt, quite hollow.. Injuries not withstanding, I felt my Shepard should have argued more with the Catalyst-AI.. He was wrong.. His hypothesis was wrong.. Philosophically of course, everything he said made sense that creators and created would war.. but, the logic is faulty.. Sentience allows choice, and that choice always means a chance that such a war will not be waged.. The peace between the Geth and Quarrians proved it, and that whould have been one of my arguments..

Yes, I am a sucker for a happy ending and that is exactly what I want (and wanted).. The posts above me and elsewhere in thread upon thread seem to indicate the same.. I don't feel betrayed per say, but definitely let down.. I didn't go through a hellish war with my stalwart companions Garrus and Tali, just to lay down and die..

The game spoke of hope quite a bit, but certainly didn't leave me with much.. The cryptic statements delivered by Bioware and staff tweets aren't enough to bring me peace of mind.. and I am sure others feel the same.. Whatever it is you have planned (assuming you do), it better be huge.. Causing an uproar among your faithful fans and then delivering to them the "calm down all, we planned this all along.. but here is the awesome part for what happened after" plan is just kinda mean really..

Loved the game.. Loved the characters.. Loved the multiplayer (Screw you Marauders and Banshees!).. Really annoyed with the ending.. Great work other than that, peeps.. Mordanticus offline..

[Debi-Tage]

MizzNaaa wrote...

As I mentioned before, (sorry for the 2nd post by the way), I wanted an open ending that could leave room for us to work with.

Something like this:

meonlyred wrote...

I was hoping for an open ended ending something like.

Shepard is standing on the bridge of the Normandy over looking Earth. Scene cuts to people rebuilding, captains commanding troopers. Shepard turns to look out into the void of space. "Joker," she says with smile, "those stars are awful far away. Bring them to me."
Joker gives a light laugh, "Aye, aye, ma'am."

Or Shepard has a LI and they are alive at the end of the game, maybe this.

Shepard speaking with the heads of the allied races, human, asari, turian, salarian, etc. They are speaking of rebuilding, of alliances and hope. A ray of hope after all the pain and lose they have endured. Shepard nods and turns leaving the room. Stepping out the door she hears, "Hey."
Turning she sees love interest leaning against the wall arms cross. S/He smiles, "Ready to get out of here."
Shepard returns the smile, "Hell yeah."

Was that so hard?! No!! Give us a win or a heroic death but leave it open ended enough that we can fill in the blanks. Trying to fill in the blanks with the current ending is just depressing as hell.

It could be the 'happy ending' OPTION. I don't want to force a sort of happy ending on anyone, but I want it for my Shepard.

Yes. It would be great to see the ending sequence actually reflect the uniqueness of each player's Shepard. My Shepard wanted...deserved her happy ending. Others may go the "victory at all costs" Shepard, or sacrficed earth to save the galaxy, or the galaxy to save earth, or their companions, LI and themselves to save everyone else.  But we should SEE those options reflected in the final sequences.  

That range of options is what I seriously expected to see as ME fan, especially given the (now false) importance of galactic readiness. I was fully prepared to fight for the ending I wanted and do everything I could to get my Shep's perfect ending (buying Infiltrator, playing MP, using other iOS apps). I thought for sure Bioware would provide that option for me. I had faith in them.

It was a punch in the gut to realize none of those things I did would matter. Since I already purchased Infiltrator (I don't even want to finish it now) and invested a small sum in buying Spectre packs for MP (which I shouldn't have t do for SP in the first place), not to mention the 100.00 I spent on the CE and next day delivery (I preordered last June BTW), seems like I'm SOL.

I feel like a complete chump.