7052 réponses à ce sujet

[k8ee]

I have to go wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

I think this pretty much sums it up.

Agreed, this is an excellent summary.

[colateral]

It has been brought up, reposting because it needs to be taken seriously.

[Shssay-san]

 This may have been posted before, but I wanted to post it in this thread to be sure:  angryjoeshow.com/2012/03/top-10-reasons-we-hate-mass-effect-3s-ending/

Angry Joe does a good job of summing up why so many of us are so upset about the ending.  I nodded so much while watching this video, I got a crick in my neck.

[RabidWHM]

As stated above. This needs to be seen. I agree with this guy totally. He sums it up in ways I can't explain. We all have spent 5+ years on this series, why not a happy ending, I want to be sipping drinks sum place warm with garrus. lol. All 10 reasons are so valid in its own way. This guy hits it on the head. Thank you angry joe.

We need a major update/patch for this!

[AgenTBC]

I think the Angry Joe video makes a lot of good points but I think he way overplays the "happy ending" card. Don't do it, Bioware!

[JohnTSCC]

well I would like to see some bugs fixed for when there is a patch in the future. I got the codex bug for every time I check it always starts at the power grid improvement Citadel side quest which it is a pain to go all the way up to check for new objects, I noticed there was breathing bug where Shepard is out of breath when he walking. normally he/she would be out of breath when he/she is running, and the import bug where the game can not accept the face which resulting to creating a new face etc.

[Xellith]

I think that everyone should have an ending thats representitive of their efforts. I want a happy ending dammit. But I also want a terrible ending for im a lazy bast***.

Replay value can I have it?  You just destroyed a trilogy.

Modifié par Xellith, 18 mars 2012 - 11:53 .

[Hussain747715]

This

[schulz100]

I would like to make it clear that I was actually satisfied with the endings, but I do feel there was some serious missed potential here by shoehorning in the star child and making the Reapers basically the Renegade-style solution to synthetic-organic relations, mostly because we are capable of calling them on their bull****(if we make peace between Geth and Quarians). In fact, here's what I think would work; we call the Reapers/star child on their/his/its bull**** calls regarding synthetics and organics(that conversation bit is only available to players who got the Geth and Quarians to cooperate. In other scenarios, this just serves as an alternate option if you have a high enough EMS or reputation), and tell them/it/him that they/him/it can keep (oh you know what I'm going to type by now) given options for peace, at which point Shepard duels the star child with his pistol in a trippy-as-balls final boss battle(given that Shep is trying to kill what is apparently something with a level of personal advancement on the deity scale), and upon killing it, the Reapers deactivate. At which point, your EMS(which should be adjustable by more things than multiplayer the first time around(cause it is just so hard to tear yourself away from single player long enough)) determines wether or not friendly forces get to Shepard quick enough to save his/her life(Cause, y'know, he/she was kinda caught in a Reaper laser explosion about thirty minutes prior). High enough EMS, Shepard lives and we get nice little epilogues for everyone. If the EMS is too low, Shep dies on Earth, surrounded by the squad, friends who aren't part of the squad, and major military and political officials of united the races(while holding hands with the LI) leading to a funeral scene and slightly sadder epilogue scenes.
Oh, and a good name for this scenario would be Defiance.

[RabidWHM]

This guy is really good as well. Thanks Jeremy

[Jobrill]

Hussain747715 wrote...

This

I want to quote this because this is another video that lays out the issues with the endings very well and I believe anyone at Bioware who's serious about helping us out should watch it.

And you know what? We deserve a happy ending OPTION.

If you feel a sad ending needs to happen for YOUR Shepard, great. Let your Shepard die.



"Wouldn't make sense."



What does that mean? What does that signify?



Why is it so important that Shepard die? This is a character who cheats
death time and time again. This is a story about how an ENTIRE GALAXY
cheats death? Why does Shepard NEED to die? The themes of the game have
been about Unity, Cooperation, Diversity, and tenacity in the face of
overwhelming odds. I fail to see anything in there that says Shepard
needs to die.



If you want your Shepard to die, great, go right ahead. I want mine to
live, and after 5 years of helping him cheat death, grow strong, build
friendships and relationships, and build bridges, I don't feel guilty
believing that, and I don't feel like it would cheapen my Shepard's
story.



As it is, any "Happy" ending where Shepard lives isn't gonna exactly be
Hollywood. There's going to be a whole galaxy to rebuild, and there's
likely going to be a lot of poverty and suffering due to all the
Infrastructure and technology the Reapers destroyed, even if everything
is rebuilt in the long run,even if Shepard and Mass Relays survive to
make recovery possible.


But he does deserve a chance to try, right alongside his friends and lovers.

Don't get me wrong, make a sensible ending first, but I see no reason not to get a Happy ending.

Modifié par Jobrill, 19 mars 2012 - 12:04 .

[crimzontearz]

freaking thank you jobrill

[KrabFace]

Get rid of the catalyst kid. The Reapers are more threatening when you don't know or understand their motives. The catalyst also makes them seem like pawns and not as powerful when they are being controlled.

[Skirlasvoud]

Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 19 mars 2012 - 12:17 .

[MercenaryNo]

What was the point of naming your character in multiplayer? I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more integration of your N7 assets being shown in single player, during cut scenes or otherwise. All my other feedback has been stated already.

Also I've always wanted the ability to change skins during a NG+. Think along the lines of The Force Unleashed, where after beating the game once, you could do it all over again with a different skin. For example, NG+, there could be an outfit in your armory that makes Shepard into a Turian, Geth, ect ect. No it's not really necessary, but yes it's fun. Thank you.

[Sabotage23]

I suggest you leave the current endings for those who actually liked them and found solace in them...

but for the people who are dedicated enough give them some way of getting that happy ending everyone would like to see...maybe if X condition is met than A&B&C still blow up the galaxy

But if X&Y condition is met Y being maybe 7500 readiness with full paragon/renagade then give option for ending D

Ending D = Happy ending where you provail over the reapers at the cost of many, but ultimately the galaxy is safe from the reaper threat

Que credits

Que short epilogue with love interest

Que Stargazer scene

Modifié par Sabotage23, 19 mars 2012 - 12:14 .

[Skyvale]

This is probably gonna be longer than I anticipated, so bear with me...

• The biggest problem I'm having with the endings is the sheer lack of logic and plotholes.  The Starchild's argument makes no sense.  "I turn all organics into synthetics that kill organics because otherwise synthetics will kill organics" is ridiculous.  I wanted to know the Reapers' motivation, but if this is all you've got, then keeping it in the dark would have been a much better idea.
  
• Shepard is ridiculously out of character for not even being able to question Starchild's logic.  In fact, the whole game feels very unlike Mass Effect as a whole.  You can't investigate at all or ask questions.  Shepard just blindly accepts Starchild's extremely faulty logic and its ridiculous choices without even attempting to question them.  I thought it was really strange, too, that we couldn't talk to him a second time to ask about our choices again.  The entire conversation felt so unlike every other conversation I've had in the Mass Effect trilogy.  The quality drop and change of tone was so severe here I wasn't sure if you guys were trolling and it was all a dream or if the writers had really just lost it.
  
• We were told there would be "wildly divergent" endings.  I feel like we were robbed of this and lied to.  We get only three endings, all of which amount to apparently the same result.  And if they have different consequences, we are never shown them.  Our choices do not impact our ability to choose them or their outcomes.  Our choices have absolutely no bearing on this at all.  This is a huge problem.
  
• EMS amounts to almost nothing, as the endings are 95% the same except for the color of the explosions.  We don't get to see our allies in action.  We don't get the reward of seeing them fight the Reapers, or having them help us in the fight, beyond some background explosions.
  
• I thought I was "okay" with the choices I was given (I knew I had low EMS so I figured I was going to miss out on "good" endings, though this turned out to be moot point anyway)... until the cinematic that happened afterward.  I am appalled by the plot holes that were shown.  It was established in the Arrival DLC and in the Codex that the explosions of mass relays result in supernova-like explosions.  If this is the case, then Shepard, no matter which option s/he chooses, kills more organic life than the Reapers could ever hope to.  The galaxy literally would have been better off if s/he'd chosen nothing at all as a result.  And even if you somehow manage to hand-wave this one, this doesn't erase the fact that there are now millions, if not billions, of aliens and humans in orbit around a ruined Earth.  Even a completely healthy Earth would be unable to sustain all that alien life, much less the quarians and turians that can't eat human food.  Everyone that was brought to battle dies a slow and agonizing death, while back on their home planets their leaders are gone, as are their militaries, their means of travel, and thus they all die out too.  EVERY choice results in cosmic annihilation, no matter which way you spin it.  There is no way around this, and it's beyond infuriating because it implies the writers didn't just drop the ball with the endings, they seriously did not think one minute beyond the implications of Starchild's options, and that no matter what, everything and everyone is dead as dead can be.  There aren't even three endings, there's just ONE.
  
• There is also no possible way Joker could have escaped, with your crew no less, unless he fled the battle out of cowardice.  That's way out of character and seems like an extremely poor justification for wanting to have him land on Gilligan's Planet, which was insulting on a whole other level.
  
• I'm torn between wanting to believe indoctrination theory and not, because the only possible way to get rid of these plot holes is to say it was all a dream... but that doesn't make it any better, or make it brilliant, artsy, cerebral, or trippy.  It just makes it beyond obnoxious.  These possibilities leave us with two scenarios--either the ending IS complete and it's just terrible, or it's incomplete, we got shafted, and it's still terrible.  If all the hints the staff on Twitter have been dropping lead to the reveal that indoctrination theory is canon, I won't be any less pissed, to be completely honest.  We want explanations, but the writing is deplorable no matter which way you paint it.  This never should have happened to begin with.
  
• As a writer myself, I take serious issue with the way the ending was executed.  If "artsy" or "cerebral" was what the writers were attempting to go for, then they totally dropped the ball.  Mass Effect is a story that has never once called for anything artsy or cerebral.  We didn't want, to put it crudely, a mind****.  We wanted answers, and instead of giving us those in the conclusion (which EVERY good conclusion does in a story wth this kind of narrative structure), we were instead given dozens of new questions and no answers, even after being promised the ending would not be like "Lost."  It isn't just that the ending isn't an ending, it's also that it subverts every theme that has been constant throughout the Mass Effect series--being able to triumph despite impossible odds, tolerance and celebration of diversity (this is directly subverted with the synthesis ending, where all living beings are homogenized as a result), and instead turns into Lovecraftian cosmicism and a forced "lesson" about the inevitability of annihilation and predestiny.  Synthetics vs. organics, which was a subplot in the game before, is suddenly elevated to being the theme of utmost importance when it never was before.  Nothing in the game was building up to any of this, and this is why it feels like such a kick in the groin.  The whole game had been about subverting these ideals, and in the last five minutes they're shoved down our throats and we're essentially told that everything Shepard had done up until then was in vain and amounted to nothing, that despite everything they were wrong and that nothing has any point.  Everything dies.  The end.
  
• In regards to happy vs. gritty/dark endings, I think this could easily be solved if we had been given a CHOICE.  I love the way Dragon Age: Origins handled this.  You can get your happy ending where you live, but at a serious cost with the foreshadowing that you may have unleashed something very powerful and possibly very awful upon the world.  Or you can make your heroic sacrifice with your hero's funeral and not risk that for the sake of the greater good.  The point is we need CHOICES and OPTIONS.  If we had these, then most everyone would've been happy.  I would have liked to have seen, like an earlier poster mentioned, anything from seeing Shepard riding off into the sunset with their LI if you worked your ass off for a perfect ending, to a Shepard VI/one of Liara's time capsules warning another galactic civilization 50,000 years down the road of the Reaper threat if you didn't.  Either of those or anything between that would have been amazing, satisfying for the whole spectrum of players, and would have guaranteed replay value.  Shepard doesn't necessarily NEED to die, as Shepard is not a "tragic" character archetype, unlike Mordin.  But again, choice should be there, especially in a game that stresses player choice so much.
  
• I never felt like I finished playing the game.  The confrontation with the Illusive Man was very unsatisfying and was essentially a repeat of Saren, but without even a final battle.  I was really hoping to actually fight Harbinger, which would have made an amazing final boss experience.  The idea that having a final boss is too "video game-y" when we are PLAYING a video game is amazingly illogical and a crap argument, to be honest.
  
• There was no conclusion.  I really can't stress that enough.  The very LEAST that could have been done were some Dragon Age-style epilogue slides, but we don't even get that.  Stargeezer and that random child at the end was totally unnecessary, went out of its way to be artsy, and was not satisfying in the least.  It was just weird and felt totally out of the blue.  And oh man, Gilligan's Planet.  I really shouldn't have to say why that was so upsetting and made no sense.
  
• A minor quibble at this point, but one still relevant: I'm really annoyed at how multiplayer is essentially required to get the "good" endings.  I don't doubt I'll enjoy it once I start playing it, but it and single player should be completely separate entities, or it should have only a minor impact on single player.
  
• I'm sure there's more I could touch upon, but I've written way too much already and many others will no doubt have already said it.  I just have to say, I loved 99% of the game to pieces.  But that last 1% was so horrible that I'm having trouble moving past it.  Something here needs to be fixed, to say the least.

Oh god, that did wind up being really long.  Sorry about that.

Modifié par Skyvale, 19 mars 2012 - 12:15 .

[mghjr6]

First off, I LOVED the game until the last 5 minutes. Everything about it was great until the last 5 minutes.

I had surgery the day after the game arrived, so I only finished it today. Even so, I had the ending spoiled for me days ago. I thought if I just made it to the end myself, maybe it would make more sense to me. I even prepared myself long ago for a "martyr" ending, knowing that artistic types think it's cool to kill the hero in the end. I prepared to be disappointed by a lack of options for Shepard to survive. I was NOT prepared for what I saw. It was all a shock, having been one of the big optimists before release, always talking about how I was sure that it couldn't be that bad.

My problems:

-Only one option for Shepard's survival, and that ends with him halfway across the galaxy from his/her LI. Which reminds me...

-What in the world was up with the Normandy running off through a Mass Relay for no known reason, ending up on some distant planet, with my crew miraculously aboard and stranded? With my LI!?

-I'm not asking for miracles. I just imagined that, at the very least, it would end with Shepard and the survivors looking out over the ravaged Earth and knowing that they'd won. Even if all the Mass Relays were disabled and civilization had to go on without the Reaper technology, at least they'd survived.

-RGB? None of the endings fit. At all.
-My Shepard would never have taken it on himself to force a fusion of organic/synthetic in the Neutral ending. It seems wrong. And then you're dead.
-He had just proclaimed that we weren't ready to control something as powerful as the Reapers, so the "Paragon" ending seemed wrong. And then you're dead.
-He fought to unite the Quarians and Geth, Joker and EDI, etc.. so destroying all synthetics, including Shepard and, by extension, anyone partially synthetic seemed ridiculous. And then you're dead. BUT when done right, this is the survivable option. Except that my crew is halfway across the galaxy, including the LI.

-The "Stargazer" thing is a definitive way of killing all hope for rectification of all this, implying that the descendants of the Normandy crew are still stuck on that planet years later.

MAYBE I could've dealt with the martyr ending if my crew had been left in the Sol system. It would've been better, but I still would not have liked it. I just feel that in a story with that many options, to be cornered into DEATH=VICTORY... All the flaws in the ending combined sapped my will to play any of the games again.

[Sabotage23]

MercenaryNo wrote...

What was the point of naming your character in multiplayer? I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more integration of your N7 assets being shown in single player, during cut scenes or otherwise. All my other feedback has been stated already.

Also I've always wanted the ability to change skins during a NG+. Think along the lines of The Force Unleashed, where after beating the game once, you could do it all over again with a different skin. For example, NG+, there could be an outfit in your armory that makes Shepard into a Turian, Geth, ect ect. No it's not really necessary, but yes it's fun. Thank you.

Would have loved to have seen the promoted soldiers in the london section when you get that last little break before the final fight...   even if it was just your soldier named what you named it saying "Commander"

Modifié par Sabotage23, 19 mars 2012 - 12:18 .

[goose2989]

Please ignore the language (I don't condone it) but this video perfectly sums up what so many of us have been feeling.

[Mbednar]

Why is everyone on the opposite side of the spectrum in regards to whether the ending should be happy or sad.  I believe we deserve both.  Bioware has done it in most of their previous games.  Stop the infighting, we should get both.

As far as the Indocrination Idea goes, for those of you that haven't read it and simply assume its a bad idea, PLEASE READ IT.  While it makes this ending somewhat redundant, it allows for a flawless transition to a "true" ending DLC.

I don't agree with everything in this plan, but it would be a HECK of a lot better than what we currently have.

I don't believe that Bioware was planning this, but it would solve a lot of the gripes and plot holes.  It would also pave the way for more properly constructed endings with more variety.

If you can think of something better, please by all means Bioware, go ahead.

Modifié par Mbednar, 19 mars 2012 - 12:21 .

[humanspectre11]

 this is my idea for the ending. i keep the catalyst to show that, in my opinion, the catalyst as an AI could have been taken somewhere with proper explanation and details. please download the word document from the link below and read it for yourself.

http://www.mediafire...va4n4q9759guaj 

note: i wrote this in a hurry, so if there are spelling/grammar mistakes, please let me know!
also, if i am not allowed to link you to my space on mediafire, i will post my idea as a single post, but it is very long and detailed, so i would rather not do this. anyways, enjoy! 

[padawanmage]

Besides the 'give us a better ending', I had a problem when I found an artifact on a planet, the journal didn't let me know to bring to such and such person back on the Citadel.

[Qwarky]

I don't hate the endings per se, I really enjoyed a lot of the setpieces and sequences in the finale. A big part of the last 30 minutes was some of the most moving moments I've experienced in videogames, which is credit to the excellent characters and music.

Leaving things open for interpretation can work just fine, which is why I had issues with some of the details that WERE explained or shown, making some big contradictions with what has worked and been said in the previous two games.

Ideally, I would have loved to see a golden ending of sorts, the same kind of magnificent, rousing ending as seen in ME1 and 2, rewarding you of all that hard work, making you feel good about the game you just experienced. Show us the survivors of the conflict. Show us the worlds we saved. Show us the characters we've grown to genuinely love over the last several years and the fascinating universe we have so loved to explore.


Buuuut if I had to only change things about the endings currently available, I would leave out the mass relays exploding (at least in a "best" ending). The relays exploding could well be a consequence of lower galactic readiness, or something similar, but having it happen every time, without further explanation, leaves the whole thing on a very sour note. The entire rallied armada of different races, finally united by you, now stuck in the Sol system to die? That's not a very rewarding ending, and it feels especially cheap the way the matter is simply brushed aside, as if not much thought had been given for the consequences (something this series has always been about).

Sure, there's a possibility of everyone working something out, but I don't see a particular need to show the relays exploding (won't even go into the whole matter of how an exploding relay should take out an entire system as well), unless it's for a "bad" ending. Leaving their fate open would work much better if we didn't already know they are going to be stuck and sure to die slow and painful now. It also goes against the whole theme of uniting the different races around the galaxy.


I'd also leave out the explanation about the reapers the Catalyst gives us. It goes against a lot of things explained in ME1 and 2, as well as a lot of the themes in ME3. The whole thing about preventing organic life from inventing synthetic life that will destroy us makes very little sense the way it's presented.

We spent most of ME3 befriending AI, proving organics and synthetics can coexist and that life is more than just survival and synapses. Either let us argue the fact, the way Shepard usually does, or leave it out entirely. The whole thing would have worked a lot better if the child had just done like Sovereign and explained we couldn't possibly understand. At best, it would only add to Shepard's desperate situation, that feeling of powerlessness, with events far larger than yourself. The explanation, assuming the whole catalyst sequence was not a hallucination or the sort, cheapens the Reapers, and at worst sours the previous two games for later replays.

Or, as said, let us argue the fact, and have some good dialogue wheel choices, eventually allowing to make the catalyst see the error in their reasoning, leading to a choice of letting us only disable the reapers and sparing other syhthetic life. It would prove everything Shepard had been fighting for. Right now, I'm literally pretending that choosing to destroy the synthetic life really only destroys the reapers and not the geth or EDI.

I'm telling myself Shepard's body never physically left earth when he got to the beam, and the whole sequence between Anderson, The Illusive Man, and later the catalyst took place in a kind of weird inner mind/cyberspace kind of thing. It's the only way I can reason why the catalyst would say the things it says, as they make no sense, and it makes no sense why Shepard doesn't call it on its bs.

And if a long running, beloved, scifi saga ends on an ending where a lot of people have to pretend something in it didn't actually take place, I don't feel the series has gotten the ending it deserves.



So, to summarize: either create a new DLC ending that can be reached by doing some complex sequence of requirements or a really high readiness level. It ends with the catalyst firing, destroying all the reapers, sparing all other synthetic life, the mass relays don't blow up, the normandy and Shepard's crew did not escape and leave him (this is another detail that infers things I don't really like and that go against the characters you know).

In an epilogue, we are shown each surviving crew member and notable character in the story. We are shown the worlds we've saved, the people who now live and rebuild. Maybe an extended new moment with your love interest. Who am I kidding, I just want to see more Tali.

And after THAT you can do your little extra half-cliffhangery stuff.

Or, leave out the current (new) explanation for the Reapers and the mass relays exploding.


That's my take. ME3 is still an amazing experience, with some wonderful dialogue between wonderful characters. The ending just could have been handled better, as right now, some of the details cheapen or contradict the events of the previous games.

EDIT:
I'm also agreeing with this guy's ideas about a better ending:


EDIT2:

I would also like to clarify that I feel the endings don't feel as well thought out as the rest of the game, or indeed, the previous games in the series. Most of ME3 is really well written, so the endings come off as either written by an entirely different group of people, or as if you had a more elaborate set of endings planned out, but maybe ran out of time and had to rush things?

I hold tremendous amount of respect for the Mass Effect series. You created one of my favourite game universes, with a wonderful sense of place, sense of discovery, sense of adventure. It has its own histories, its own cultures and visual identity. The original game was in inspiring mix of roleplay and gunplay. It felt amazing, being in that world. Doing those choices. Deciding how YOU want to go about things. Saving a life, changing someone's fate, everyone's fates, knowing things could go very differently depending on how you play, felt unlike anything else. The games have some of the best written and acted characters around, with depth and charisma. You grow to care about them. You grow to love them. It has been an honor to travel through their journey over these three games and books and comics. I feel you could do much better for a rousing ending.

Modifié par Qwarky, 19 mars 2012 - 01:05 .

[DCYNIGR8]

Mbednar wrote...

Why is everyone on the opposite side of the spectrum in regards to whether the ending should be happy or sad.  I believe we deserve both.  Bioware has done it in most of their previous games.  Stop the infighting, we should get both.

Agreed. Comes with the whole 'player choice/consequence' concept that was stripped away at the last moments of the game. If you're willing to work hard enough, possibly sacrifice enough to get the 'happy ending' you want, it should be available to you.

As it stands it kinda makes all that time I spent perfecting my ME/ME2 saves wasted. I'm not saying I'll never play them again because I feel the experience is totally void, but it certanly lessens my inclination to do so.