7052 réponses à ce sujet

[shadesinbetween]

First off, can I just say that I'm glad that we're finding a common ground and searching for a means to an end. I love the Mass Effect universe, and I love BioWare. This chasm between what I love and... well... what I loved... it sucks.

But I'll stop talking about that and go on straight to what we're all here for.

1) Funny enough I was just talking to my fiance about this. One of the things I would have really liked to see would have been how our choices affected the ending. For example, the Quarians and Geth. I would have liked to see that at the end, depending on who you had/helped, you would see cut scenes depicting them. If you didn't have enough rep to get the paragon/renegade option, and choose Legion, for example, you wouldn't have the Quarians in the last fight. So maybe all we see for *that* particular cut scene would be Geth ships fighting the Reapers. If you reunited the Geth and Quarians peacefully, maybe we would get a whole different cut scene (Quarian ship is attacked by a Reaper, and a Geth ship goes on the offensive and starts shooting the Reaper). Stuff like that, a cut-and-paste sort of battle royale taking place, with your (Shepard's) choices determining the outcome. And this could reflect to many different areas, such as with the Rachni queen, the Turians/Krogan dispute and the genophage, all of those lovely trimmings we were giving in game. I'm not a game developer, I have no idea how this could be done, but I'm pretty confident that it could be.

2) Variation in the endings. And obviously I don't mean the little variation we have now. A lot of people would like to see a happy ending (Shepard with LI and the Reapers defeated). I see nothing wrong with that. Also give us an ending where the Reapers are left unopposed or nearly unstoppable (could depend on how many War Assets Shepard attained before engaging the Reapers full on), and maybe an ending where Shepard sacrifices all for something that favors him/her. Maybe the power of the Crucible could depend on what you as Shepard accomplished through all three playthroughs; whether it barely helps (doing the bare minimal), or it destroys their shields (little more), destroys shields and weakens them, or destroys them completely.

3) Staying true to the Mass Effect universe. I know I'm not the only one who thought that the last 10-15 minutes felt so disconnected from the rest of the game(s). Shepard was so placid, and the dialogue was so flat, one-dimensional and rushed. I don't mean to say this to be critical but because Bioware has set a standard in *me* and in what I've come to respect and enjoy from you guys immensely. For Bob's sake, I have a Sovereign quote in my signature. You guys write amazing dialogue that sticks with you (the player) years after hearing it for the first time. There's no disputing that you're amazing at setting an ambiance, a vibe that resonates with the players in a way that hasn't been mastered by any other game developer since. It's phenomenal. For the ending to feel so disconnected and out-of-place was a complete shell-shock and forcefully ejected me out of an otherwise involving game. I have no idea what happened, or how it happened, but I definitely did not expect it. Had I been playing a subpar game, I would have expected a subpar ending. But I was playing Mass Effect 3 from BioWare.
It just feels like all the bugs weren't worked out, that the ending wasn't ready and just released for whatever reason. I would have gladly waited another six months, or a year, or however long it took for the ending to feel coherent with thhe rest of the game.

4) I would really like to see the Mass Relays survive. In my opinion that would leave the player feeling like the ME universe was very much so alive and kicking, and it gives you guys rooms to explore and expand in the universe if you so want to without having to find wiggle room. It seems to me that to keep an idea going (in this case the continum of the ME universe) it helps not to partake in mass genocide of all life in n te galaxies. xD   

Those are some of my thoughts. They may be terrible and unworthy of a second glance, but I'd like to think I was part of the solution, and not the problem. I love Mass Effect and I love Bioware. The ending leaves a lot of be desired, and I'm glad that you're asking us to help solve the issue, rather than brushing us aside. 

Thank you for that. I hope you enjoyed my suggestions, and should I have any more I'll be sure to add them.

Modifié par shadesinbetween, 19 mars 2012 - 03:00 .

[ayume]

I would have liked to see more of the Earth. That point for me as a huge let down. We passed so much time traveling and the closest we get to Earth is on Mass Effect 1, the rogue VI mission on Luna Base.

I thought that would have more missions, maybe an Air Assault, a rescue or a retake of a important base. Why not use the idea of Rio de Janeiro or Hong Kong as stated on Art of Mass Effect? It would be nice to have a mission on Hong Kong or other city, taking back the HQ or something like this.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I love the part in London where you talk to each of your squadmates before the final push, as well as the rest of the game before that.  However, seeing that Reaper laser wipe out the whole team is where everything started going wrong, for me.

Before I get started, let me set it up.  The things that you see in the current endings (everything after the Reaper laser) should be a dream.  Entering the Citadel, Illusive Man, Catalyst A.I., Joker & Normandy escaping to a jungle island, all of it.  Then, Shepard wakes up, and the true ending begins.

First of all, I'll talk about the superficial stuff: It'd be nice to see your forces fighting in the battle, a la Dragon Age: Origins.  Krogan, rachni, vorcha (Blood Pack), turians, humans, asari, salarian STG, geth armitures/colossus, Samara (Yeah, she gets her own mention for being badass)...  The clip doesn't have to be 30 minutes long or anything like that.  Just enough to satisfy the appetite.  Do something cool, like make the quarian fleet save our hides.

Now, what is easily the most controversial part of the ending is the catalyst A.I.  Also known as "god child" or "star child".  He shouldn't even exist.  OR, Shepard should get a renegade interrupt to cut him off and tell him we'll take our chances.  It was EXTREMELY out of character for Shepard to give up and give in like that.

After 125 pages, I'm sure somebody has posted how to "kill" the Reapers, but I will say this: No anticlimatic "choose this option to screw up the galaxy this way" or "choose this option to screw it up a different way".

Multiple endings is a good idea.  First of all, billions have already died, planets across the galaxy have been ravaged, and depending on your choices, at least two species become the victims of genocide.  Therefore, a happy ending isn't automatically a "Disney ending".  I would like a "happy" ending where Shepard gets to reunite with his friends and love interest after a hard fought battle.

Immediately after the battle, we could see people of every race rejoicing.

If Shepard is with Tali, he'll marry her on Rannoch.  Things like that would be a nice touch.  Of course, if she took off her mask and you saw her face, I think that would end the photo controversy.

He could find someplace tropical to chill with Garrus and Wrex.

Admiral Hackett should be awarded the highest possible honor by what remains of the Citadel Council.

Of course, you could keep a "bad ending" where everybody dies, but just make it optional.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 19 mars 2012 - 02:44 .

[Empiro3]

Whether or not the Indoctrination Theory is intended or not, just run with it.

Like many others, I want an ending that makes sense.

One that doesn't pull out a totally unbelievable god-child character in the last 5 minutes.

One that doesn't effectively destroy the universe, ruling out future spin offs.

One that varies depending on your choices leading up to the end. I'd be fine if at the very end, you don't get to choose between anything at all, but I want my accomplishments and failures leading up to that point to have an impact.

[liggy002]

Suggested changes:

.The indoctrination theory is proven correct as I believe it is brilliant.

. We get a real proper boss battle with Harbinger and have another conversation with him, much like we did with Sovereign.

. Collector enemies added into the DLC, maybe they haven't all been destroyed

. We get a real proper ending that is influenced by the Red, Green, and Blue choices we made. We see the fleets (differing in architecture and the ones that are aiding us that we chose to acquire) in the final battle and more key characters and their struggles as they engage the Reaper fleets. We also see Harbinger in space destroying multiple fleets with his awesome destructive power. We see the fate of all of the key characters, the ones that survived, at the ending which depend on the choices we made in the game.  If Shepard chooses the control or Synthesis option, he would become indoctrinated and we would take control of our squad and have to kill him.  That would be awesome!

. Shepard still dies in the new ending, but if he survives we would see him interacting with crew members, having a drink with Garrus at a bar for instance or running around with Liara and their blue babies.

. We see an ending in which the Reapers actually win and destroy all life in the Galaxy. We see the consequences of that 1000s of years from now, such as an advanced Yahg looking at ruins on Earth. I would also like to see DLC featuring more Yahg. Maybe we could go to the Yahg home world.

Whatever you do, please don't leave us hanging with the ending we got.

Modifié par liggy002, 19 mars 2012 - 02:48 .

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

And I don't mean to sound like a baby, but for goodness sake, please make the ending longer than 10 seconds this time.

[Legend78731]

Bare minimum solution:

1) Fix the problem of showing Liara in the flashback thing instead of the ME2 love interests. This oversight is stunning and sad.

2) Get rid of the Normany fleeing the battle and crash landing stuff in the Destroy ending

3) If you pick destroy, do a slow motion montage to music of Alliance personnel pulling Shephard from the rubble, with his LI there (even if it's a ME2 LI - don't short change those relationships)

4) Epilogue out the fates of the other characters

[jb1983]

blmlozz wrote...

Timforsgren wrote...

Here's my suggestion for e fulll paragon ending - Here goes;

Halfway through the walkway, after speaking with the Catalyst Shepard stops.

"No."

A raised eyebrow in the only indication that the Catalyst took notice.

"No?"

"You're giving me a choice. My answer is 'no'."

Shepard turns around, to face the Catalyst, his face grim with determination.

"You're giving me a choice, you say. But it's a false choice. All of your
options are based on the same notion: Namely, that synthetics and
organics cannot exist as equals. And I don't believe that.  refuse to
accept that as a truth. Maybe one is born from flesh, and the other
comes from silocon. But where it counts, organics and synthetics are the
same: we are selfaware. We want to be free."

"Free from tyranny. Free to find our own path. And, yes, maybe we will make mistakes. Maybe
we will disagree, and maybe we will wage war against eachother. Organic
against organic, synthetic against synthetic, and organic against
synthetic. But we will grow. We will learn. And, maybe, just maybe, we
will find a better solution. But we can't, not when you take that choice
away from us."

Optonal: "I see EDI and Jeff together, not as master and servant, but as equals.
Optional: "I see the Quarians and the Geth, organic and synthetic, preparing to
create a new homeworld for the both of them, together.
Optional: I can see the Rachni, once feared throughout the galaxy, stand with us, as equals.
Optional: I can see it's possible.

"So, no. I won't make that choice. And neither should you. Instead, allow us
to find our own way. Let us go. Send the Reapers back to the space
between galaxies. Let us make our own mistakes. Let us be free. And
believe in us. Believe that we might find a better way. A better way
than this...."

The Catalyst scans Shepard's face.

"Do you truly belive that is possible?"

"Yes, "says Shepard, without hesitation. "I believe we're owed that chance."

A few moments pass, as the Catalyst keeps looking at Shepard. Then the
avatar of the Catalyst disappears. The ground begins to shake, as the
Citadel begins preperations to fire the Cruciable and depart. Looking for a way off, Shepard
moves as fast as his aching body carries him, to the edge of the
platform... when, suddenly, a shuttle appears, with open doors, with the
two comrades he left on the way to the Conduit, their arms stretched
towards him. Shepard stars limping as fast as he can towards them.


Then it switches to eart where you see your gathered war assets fighting
in space and on the ground side by side with all your squadmembers,
both present and past. They fight a losing battle on earth, each race
covering eachother, helping eachother, tending to the wounded, taking
heavy losses, being pushed back.

Then it switches back to Shepard, making his way to the shuttle,
he falls over, unable to go any further, his 2 crewmembers rush to his aid,
the shuttle takes fire by reaper fighters. Then the screen goes black,
slowly fading into motion again showing the forces on earth, fighting
again in slow mo, dying, while the piano theme of ME3 plays - then,
when all seems lost, the sky lights up, a great wall of energy washes
over earth and the reapers deactivates and fall over, and the forces
of the galaxy cheer in victory. The beam continues through the relays
across the galaxy but without destroying
them.

Then we see the citadel closing up an getting ready to
leave, but just before it's completely shut, the shuttle slips through,
we see one of your squadmates perform CPR on Shepard as the other one
fights to pilot the damaged shuttle shouting over communications trying
to reach Joker on the Normandy, after a few moments they are successfull
and get picked up. Your crewmembers make haste and carry Shepard to the
med-bay of the normandy where dr. chakwas tries to keep you alive.

The Normandy returns directly to London where your surviving squadmates
have made it back to the HQ, the old ones aswell, they all rush into the
ship standing around the bed watching the paramedics trying to keep
Shepard alive. The situation is critical and your LI rushes forward
pleading to Shepard to wake up, crying. He/She reach down, kiss him/her
(Tali takes off her mask and her face is revealed in-game), but then,
Shepards heart stops. It's silent. Some of your squadmates may step
forward and yell/say something to shepard (Garrus may remind him of all
they've been through, that they were suppsoed to meet at the bar when
all of this was over, Wrex might yell at him how he has always been
stronger than any krogan ever will be and that a krogan wouldn't go
without a fight.) Your LI squeezes your hand hard, a few seconds of
silence, then Shepard suddenly takes a breath and his heart starts
pumping again. Shepard opens his/her eyes slowly and reaches out for the
crew. They cheer, come up to him one or two at a time saying a few
words (i.e "I knew you wouldn't go like that" " You can't quit on us in
the hour of victory Commander/Skipper"). Garrus and your LI comes up
last and talks to you.

The camera zooms out from the Normandy,
showing the aftermath of the battle on earth. It continues to zoom out
then shifting to other places in the galaxy, giving quick glimpses of
the galaxy wide battle. It then fully zooms out showing the Milky Road
as a whole and as the ending credits starts to roll and as they do we
are shown events from around the galaxy as all species begin to rebuild,
for example, quarians and geth on rannoch, Wrex and Eve on Tuchanka
uniting the krogans, turians on palaven, asari on thessia, salarians on
Sur'kesh aided by Rachni in some places. After the credits have ended we
see Shepard standing in some city on earth staring at the stars on a
moonlit night, maybe having painful flashbacks and memories from ME1 2
& 3. Then your LI comes up to you and grabs your hand and pulls you out
and looks at you, making shepard feel a little better.

Then it ends.

Bioware. Give this man a job. This is almost perfect. Is it too much to ask for *exactly* this?

That is all.

That is a great "happy" ending. One ending that would work alongside others. 

Btw, "great" is an understatement. For those who want a happy ending, this is pretty much what they want.

[seph22]

Just use the facts from this video, it makes PERFECT SENSE for an ending

[SkaldFish]

In looking more closely at the content in the core of the story resolution, I think one thing that is problematic is the fsct that it becomes very difficult to keep on suspending disbelief. I think that's mainly due to the fact that the narrative becomes a continuous sequence of tired tropes clumsily strung together. The "trope density" is off the charts. A quick (not neccessarily definitive) analysis is below, with each trope linked to a description:

[...stuff happens and...]
Shepard is, for the first time, introduced to a Sufficiently Advanced Alien, an Energy Being who, to take A Form You Are Comfortable With appears as an Adorably Precocious Child. This being, an ancient Artificial Intelligence, explains that he has seen so many Robot Wars across the millenia that, in an attempt to resolve the situation, he developed a Reset Button solution. In doing so, however, he has become a Well-Intentioned Extremist who sees the struggle between organics and synthetics as an Order vs Chaos problem in which his role is to restore order. His solution, creation of the Reapers, required him to Jump Off the Slippery Slope and accept that The Revolution Will Not Be Civilized; the most advanced civilzations will be periodically "processed" by this Horde of Alien Locusts to short-circuit the Robot War cycle.

After explaining I Did What I Had To Do (which may qualify as a bizarre twist on the Hannibal Lecture), the being claims (in a lightning-fast E = MC Hammer moment) that Shepard's presence "changes things," and presents him/her with a set of Final Solution choices. Each of these choices casually demands that Shepard cross his/her own Moral Event Horizon by presenting catastrophic variations on an End of the World As We Know It solution initiated via a Big Red Button Self-Destruct Mechanism.

In an act of Heroic Sacrifice, without a word of questioning, objection, or realization that "I Forgot I Could Change the Rules," Shepard selects an option and ends the trilogy with a Dying Moment of Awesome.

[Deepo78]

 
I've done kind of a 180 on the whole Godchild/ Deus Ex scenario.


It needs to be scrapped entirely. No amount of fleshing out of any of the blue/green/red choices will help them make any sense.  Start from scratch the second the beam hits.

[zsavk1]

kamikasei wrote...

Before anything else I want to say that I loved this game right up until the end. I spent 50+ hours on it and it was great. I was repeatedly moved to tears, elated, horrified. I was especially immersed in the sense of tension, of the strain Shepard was under (portrayed excellently by Jennifer Hale), of the deep bonds she and I had developed with the rest of the cast, how sorry I was for those we lost and how worried I was for those - squadmates, former squadmates, friends and allies, and just people you ran quests for or overheard looking for their loved ones or trying to do their jobs and help one another amidst the chaos. This game was absolutely fantastic and that's a large part of why I'm so disappointed in how the ending dropped the ball.

I don't need a happy ending. Bittersweet is fine by me. Shepard dying no matter what is sad, but perfectly acceptable.

What I do feel I need is closure. That, and to know what on earth just happened.

First I'll talk about the problems I have with the ending as it stands. Then I'll talk about things I'd have liked. I might be perfectly happy for nothing I write in the second part to be picked up, but the the first part consists of the things making me unhappy now.

I played a highly Paragon femShep romancing Liara. I saved pretty much everyone, lost Ash on Virmire, destroyed the base, cured the genophage, made peace between the quarians and geth. I went in to the final battle with 7188 total military assets and 50% readiness (having gone for a "pure" single-player run first) for a total of 3594 effective.

This all went pretty well! It seemed like the entire galaxy was in as good shape as it possibly could be before a climactic battle against all-consuming Cthuloids. All my surviving friends and allies were along for the ride and seemed to be making a difference to our odds in the space battle. However, even at this point...

• What happened to the Citadel?

I'd put a lot of work in to helping build up the Citadel's defenses. I'd tried to make sure that people there could look out for themselves and one another, had security, supplies, and hope. Then on the Cerberus base it's revealed that the Reapers have taken it. What happened to the people? It may not affect what I have to do next, but it certainly affects how I feel. Are those doctors in Huerta all dead or husks? The patients I helped them find treatments for? The refugees I ensured were taken in? The civilians I helped set up a militia for, or encouraged to pitch in on the station rather than getting themselves killed on the front lines? You did a great job through the bulk of the game up to this point making me care about these people with just a line or two of overheard conversation. Now I'm worried about them and I have no information.

Moving on... The battle on Earth all the way up to the final charge. The blast from Harbinger and beam to the Citadel. The confrontation with the Illusive Man and (for my Shepard, who seems to be good at talking people in to putting guns to their head) sitting beside Anderson as he dies. All great. Having Shepard so thoroughly blasted and battered yet still taking down those enemies made her feel like even more of a badass than doing so normally. Anderson's death again was very moving. When the call came from Hackett, Shepard's answer - "What do you need me to do?" - was downright heartbreaking. I was ready for the end to kick in right there, with the Illusive Man as the final "boss", and for Hackett to say "nothing, you've done enough". For Shepard to sit back beside Anderson and have the fireworks of her victory be the last thing she saw.

• What happened to my squadmates?

It's something that could be answered later but I was bothered by the uncertainty. Coats made it sound like everyone was dead, but he didn't react to Shepard staggering past him, and we know Anderson got back on his feet too, so the people I brought with me for the final push may have lived. Given that they were Liara (Shepard's girl and confidante) and Garrus (Shepard's best bud and right-hand turian), knowing for sure - either before the credits roll, or before the end of the game, at least - would be nice.

And then we get to the Catalyst.

There are three chief problems I have with this point, aside from the rather straightforward "here's your End-O-Tron 2000, please select" thing which is at least not so bad as in Human Revolution. One, I wasn't able to question the Catalyst. Now, I don't need to extract every last bit of potential lore in a final, mood-breaking infodump, but I very much do need to nail him down on just what the choices I'm being asked to make here mean. What exactly he's trying to get me to choose between and why. I felt like I was going in to that final choice without any certainty what choice I'd actually made. I had no opportunity to ask the clarifying questions my Shepard certainly would. I especially didn't get to point to the geth and their peaceful intentions and the peace I had brokered between them and their creators as a counterpoint to his dogmatic insistence that a cycle he perpetuated by shaping organic evolution in the same way through the relays could only produce the same results which I'd already seen contradicted.

Two, the endings simply made no sense. Okay - I can send out a signal that destroys the Reapers. That's straightforward enough. But it also destroys "all synthetics". ...Why exactly? But okay, glossing over that. Control. That makes sense the same way Destroy does, and being Reaper-specific actually makes more sense. Okay. Fine. Synthesis. What.

What is this? What does it mean? What on earth are you talking about, little glowy boy thing? It merges synthetics and organics? It makes everything use a new form of DNA? It raises everyone to the pinnacle of evolution? Evolution doesn't have a "pinnacle". How is it doing this? How can it possibly do anything like this? Are the geth going to suddenly need to eat and become able to bear live young? Will salarians be able to breathe in space and leap tall buildings in a single bound? Will turians be able to eat human food, or vice versa, or will neither need to eat at all? Will individuals survive the change? (Apparently yes, to judge by the cutscenes, but this is entirely unclear when it comes time to make the choice.) How can it possibly be considered ethical to force this change on everyone everywhere? Why, if you think it's so great, haven't you done it already? What does "my energy" have to do with anything? This all sounds bizarre, vitalist, magical. And more than anything else:

If you can somehow effect so enormous and sweeping a change which is simultaneously so intricate and precise, changing individual humans in ways that rewrite their DNA and biochemistry and add new parts to their bodies but retain their appearances and identities, how on EARTH can you not target the Reapers and avoid the geth with the Destroy mechanism?.

This is either an enormous plot hole or a blatant lie on the star-child's part. The third option is enormously out of line with the other two in terms of the power and sophistication required to pull it off.

Third, and something that only came up after I finished up and started looking at what other people had seen... it seems that which choices are available to you depend on your readiness. This seems more than a little off to me. It establishes a ranking where one ending is easier to get than another - and therefore, presumably, the more difficult-to-obtain ending is the better one. Synthesis, with all its strangeness, is the best option. That sits very ill with me. I've chosen Paragon or Renegade according to what I thought was better, but now the game is telling me which choice is the easy one that you get first and which is the super-tough secret one you need to work hard to unlock. I think it would be much, much better and more in line with the entire rest of the franchise for the final choice (if there has to be one, single, final choice) to be neutral - made according to your Shepard's personality - and for your assets to determine how well it works: whether it works at all, or requires the destruction of the Citadel, or the relays, or even of Shepard himself, and of course how many assets (in terms of people, armies and fleets) survive or are destroyed in the process.

So, for the Catalyst scene itself:

• You don't get to question the Catalyst - not just about lore or curious details, but important information about exactly what the decision you're about to make will mean. You're not able to respond to poor reasoning with clear counterpoints the game itself has gone to some lengths to make clear to you.
• The choices are extremely unclear in their implications and mechanisms, and don't make sense next to one another - the ability to pull of Synthesis makes the crude targeting of Destroy seem extremely suspect.
• The choices are "ranked" in a way that makes me feel the game itself is telling me which is correct rather than asking me to make a real choice. My assets apparently only determine which I can choose, and they all carry the same terrible side-effect however prepared I was.

And on that side-effect...

• What will happen due to the mass relays blowing up?

We had an entire DLC and a Codex entry to emphasize what a terrible disaster this is. I can accept that the kind of destruction the Crucible will cause may be different to simply blowing up (if each relay channels a pulse of energy onward, breaking up from the strain, rather than liberating all its stored energy at once - fair enough), but nothing is said to address this, and Shepard never asks. You'd think "wait, you want me to blow up the entire Solar System and every other system wtih a relay in it - Eden Prime, Elysium, Horzon, Illium, Tuchanka, Rannoch, Irune, Sur'Kesh, Palaven, Thessia, all these colonies and homeworlds - you want me to wipe out most of the people from most of the civilizations I led here to this fight?" might be something the Commander would express a little curiosity about. Maybe that is the cost of victory, but then I would like to know that. And even if it isn't, what about the allied fleets, especially the turians and quarians who can't survive off of Earth's biosphere (and what about Earth's ability to survive cut off from the rest of the galaxy, with its cities ruined, its industry destroyed, and its populations displaced)? Am I supposed to be seeing these things as part of the tragic price being paid? Am I supposed to assume it'll all work out somehow? Or am I just not supposed to think too hard about it? I mean, that's a hell of a parting gift for Wrex and Tali. "I gave your people back their future, their world! But then I burned off your atmospheres and broke your planets to rubble." Or less severely, "You will never see the children you waited for a thousand years to sire, the world you waited your whole life to walk on".

And lastly as far as objections,

• What the heck with the Normandy and the huh? Whuh? Eh?

Because that's roughly how confused I was when I saw it. Why is Joker in FTL? I'd just convinced myself that the destruction of the relays was of a different sort to the Alpha Relay, that it wasn't going to blow everything up. So why's Joker running? Was I wrong? But even so when did he start running and why? And... wait. Why is Liara getting out of the Normandy? Wasn't she with me for the final run? And Javik - shouldn't he have been on Earth too? So... did my squadmates survive, and the rest of my crew? But then how and why did they get on to the Normandy? And now the Normandy's crashed. On another planet. Which... okay, they have supplies and QEC back to Earth and may, may, be within normal FTL range to be rescued even without relays. But whoa, that's by no means certain. Am I supposed to think "hooray, they lived!" or "...they're going to have to resort to cannibalism pretty soon!"? I mean, whatever planet they're on, either Garrus and Tali can't eat the local cuisine or no one else can (or none of them can - 2175 Aeia?). So... yeah. What was that?

So. As things stand, the ending had me take the people I'd spent three games and 150+ hours building up a strong connection to and either genocide them or strand them depending on a detail I'm given no opportunity to clarify, in order to make one of three decisions presented to me by an entity who explains the inscrutable and unknowable motives of the Reapers in just a few lines (which admittedly don't make much sense), which I'm unable to question or challenge either on its reasoning or on the options it lays out for me. I make a choice in ignorance of its consequences, and then am not shown those consequences to any meaningful degree.

It's extremely frustrating. It can be fixed by letting me challenge the Catalyst on its reasoning (especially citing the geth to disprove the inevitability of synthetic uprising, and just about everything else as evidence that organics have plenty to fear from one another without making Lampy McTorchface into their boogeyman) and question it on the meaning of the choices it's presenting, and showing me either before (in some cases) or after the choice what's happened to the people and places I care about as a result of the battle and of my actions.

As to what I'd like, beyond fixing the things that bothered me?

We were promised a widely diverging set of endings. I'm surprised that a Renegade Shepard can't alter events from Thessia or the Cerberus base on, by trying to side with the Illusive Man (whether openly or in secret). That's fine by me as I played Paragon, but may be an issue for others. At the very least, though, I'd have liked to see my war assets come in to play more during the final fight. The Suicide Mission did it very well, so let's have something like that. Bad things happen unless you have the right person or resource to head them off. If you're doing really well, whoever it is survives. E.g.: a group of Ravagers bombard your allies and a bunch of soldiers die, unless you have Grunt or Wrex there to charge in and kick quad. If you have both, then they don't just save the soldiers, but live themselves. E.g.: when Harbinger shows up to wreck the party, the Normandy swoops down to intercept if the space battle is going well enough. If it can only just break away, then the escorts are destroyed in the attack. If you have enough fleet strength, both turian and quarian/geth, the escorts survive. (You could make it so that Shepard is blasted by the wreckage rather than Harbinger's attack, if you want to keep things going the same way after that, or you could just let Joker get to save the day, since it's sort of a tradition and all.) I want to see quarians and geth fighting side by side. I want to see a krogan grudgingly help a fallen salarian. I want to see a turian salute Grunt. I want Jack and her students to hold the line and save lives. I want to see the Destiny Ascension blow something up spectacularly.

I'd like the Illusive Man to be the final boss. Ending on a dialogue battle would work great, even if it's not TIM. Depending on what you choose, you destroy the Reapers or take control of them for your own purposes, being the Paragon/Renegade split. Perhaps, as I've seen suggested elsewhere, you might get a choice of destroying the Reapers and shutting down the relay network, or leaving them intact but ensuring they'll go after the other races instead; or if you have enough Rep or assets, you can destroy them without losing the relays, or outright take them over and ensure human dominance forever. If you must destroy the relays, you at least know what happens if you do, and if it's supposed to be that the fleets stranded at Earth can survive you get to see that. You get an epilogue, and see your friends and allies in the aftermath. You see Cerberus troops leading Reaper forces in the invasion of Palaven, or krogan and geth helping to rebuild Earth. You see Tali working on her house, Jacob with his kid. Grunt shows Urdnot Mordin how to hold a gun. Little blue babies wouldn't go amiss. Maybe you get a statue. Ash, Mordin, Thane and Legion sure as hell do. Somewhere, somehow, the crew lift a glass in your honour.

This actually breaks down fairly cleanly into before, during and after the current ending:

• Show more detail during the fight, involving allies and assets.
• Cut out the Catalyst and make the final outcome depend on your conversation with the Illusive Man and your assets/Reputation.
• Provide an epilogue.

That's all I want, really: closure. Even if tragedy is inevitable, I'd prefer to at least know for sure it occurred.

As I said at the outset, the game was fantastic. I wouldn't be writing all this if you hadn't succeeded brilliantly at making me care about this world and these people. I just want to know what became of them as a result of my actions. What, in the end, did I accomplish? I played through 50+ hours of things coming to a head. I feel like I was startled right at the finish line and tripped and fell instead of crossing. It's not a good feeling. It's not artistic or exciting or fueling speculation. It's hollow and draining and sad.

[*]I hope your taking notes Bioware.  This guy sums it up well.  
[*]

[danicoro]

 Per the resounding theme in this thread, the ending(s) need to be drastically changed. For one, having the option to have a "happy" ending, a "tragic" ending, a "martyr" ending, etc. I seem to have seen whispers throughout the forums that the last five minutes of ME3 has completely destroyed not only the replayability of the game itself, but also the first two games, because the endings literally give you this exact statement:

"What's the point?"

Paragon, Renegade, Renegon, Paragade; we were told that every decision we made throughout the course of the first two games, and 99% of the third made a difference in every situation and could even effect the outcome of the entire game. And up until the last five minutes of Mass Effect 3, IT DID.

Then, at the end, we are given "Okay lol pick ur fafret colour!" with a sudden, random, totally-unexplainable AI taking the form of the child Shepard has been having waking nightmares about the entire game whose argument is filled to bursting with logical fallacies and utter disregard and lack of respect for canon, and can basically be summarised into "Yo dawg, I herd u didn't want to get killed by synthetics, so I made some synthetics to kill you every 50,000 years so you wouldn't get killed by synthetics."

WAT.

As if that wasn't bad enough, the "illusion" of choice literally gives you the exact same cutscene that follows 95% of the same cinematic with such minor differences that they almost aren't worth mentioning, with different coloured explosions. There is no epilogue about either the crew of the Normandy (and no, crash-landing on some far-distant jungle planet with members of the squad that were actually on the ground in London with Shepard doesn't count), or the tens of other races that are now stuck in the Sol system (and will probably either starve to death or be killed as a result of this) as a consequence of the fact that no matter what choice you make (Red/Green/Blue) the destruction of the Mass Relays is unavoidable.

Fix this. Make our choices matter. Give us the "vastly different" endings we were promised. Give use options for better endings. Give us an actual epilogue, for the love of God. Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening did this extremely well; why the crap can't Mass Effect do this, too?

I might have been able to swallow the ending if I had at least been given closure in the form of an epilogue that actually told you what the hell happened after you made your choice, but we don't even get that. We're left wondering what the hell happened, and how any of it makes any sense. And no, the grandfather telling his grandchild a story about "The Shepard" is not closure-giving, nor is it an acceptable "epilogue" either. Fix this, make it right.

And since this is also a "suggested changes to the overall game and not just the ending" thread, make James Vega a romantic interest. The way you blueballed us with him was completely unfair. :|

tl;dr:
- Give us options for better endings, because the one (yes, singular) we were given in the retail release was terrible, full of plot holes and logical fallacies and basically negated anything and everything we ever did up to the last five minutes of that game, and is basically the opposite of what we were promised.
- Give us some closure, give us an epilogue (or at least one that doesn't suck).
- Make James Vega a love interest.

[alextremo]

I've been thinking about so many possible alternate endings. I want to know what everyone thinks. 
I didnt put as much thought as other but here u go.
 This would be the "bad" ending if you failed in the end. Perhaps didn't manage to get enough allies or war assets. As you are defeated, the screen fades to black, then you are shown some type of research facility, and a new race discovering liaras message box. It tells them about the reapers and how humanity and all races lost, leaving behind this information so that the new cycle has a chance to defeat the reapers. 
I just think that would have been interesting to see. 

[jtwillia]

 I would really like to see Tali's face completely redone. No stock photo- I don't care whether or not it's still a photo or she takes her mask off, but the lack of effort on the face needs to be addressed. A completely original photo or reveal in general would be sufficient. A thread on Reddit, clan Tali all agreeing: http://www.reddit.co...nts/r0gqh/tali/
Thank you for listening. I look forward to seeing the good old Bioware I remember from the old days.

[Calumknight]

Oh one way out of the multiple different endings route that the player chooses in relation to any future games its simple, the next game you simply state that shepard was never seen again after the battle for earth. At the end of me3 depending on whether shepard dies or lives (if lives just have him step down from the limelight and retire or whatever you want to do) keeps whatever players pick at the end of me3 relevant no matter what they do and you don't have to worry about importing the save games from me3 (it is shepards last game after all according to interviews)......apart from maybe having to import the main stories e.g genophage cured or not, rachni allowed to live or not, geth quarian outcome etc The individual data for characters doesnt need to be saved for future reference saving you a lot of trouble (non of the others are as famous in the galaxy as shepard so stands to reason they won't be remembered in history jsut maybe a passing mention).

[Neversage]

I support the indoctrnation theory, but here's some details.

The final boss should be harbinger, where we fight to break his control of Shepard. I thought it would be cool to have your closest companions try to break you out of the indoctrination. If you have enough collective loyalty with them, and your war effort was strong enough, they can break you out of indoctrination, allowing you to choose what happens.

If you fail, harbinger controls you and the reapers win. We then get to see the reapers harvest earth, and then 50,000 years later, we see the reapers decend on the next civilizations (with human form reapers-creepy!) and the cycle continues. This would be ominous and awesome for a failure ending.

If you succeed, and your companions free you from harbinger's influence, you discover the reaper's true purpose. I REALLY like the dark energy idea someone posted elsewhere, where the reapers are collectively trying to stop the eventual self-destruction of the universe itself. By revealing this, we give Shepard's ultimate choice context, and gravity. Do we sacrifice for the greater good (see ending 3 below), or do we say no, we will find a better way without loss of life? You are then able to choose what to do next and get your ending.

(Ending 1) You can destroy the reapers, saving earth and leaving the mass relays intact. Everything is great and we get to see what happens to each of the surviving main characters, similar to how we did in Dragon Age 1, with humanity's vow to find another way to survive anything, even the end of the universe.

(Ending 2) Or you can choose to control the reapers, saving earth for now, but we aren't able to fully control them, and they keep themselves and their purpose intact by focibly blending with us, ultimately resulting in the joining of organic and synthetic life.

(Ending 3) Or, you can choose to willfully surrender to the reapers and get the same failure ending as above, but knowing it was for a greater purpose.

A note on loyalty and choices from other games:
Your ability to overcome harbinger must be tied both to your war effort strength, and your companion loyalty. There are no loyalty missions in ME3, so loyalty must come from ME1 and ME2. This means that that ending you get depends on your choices and performance throughout the entire series.

A 60% complete game should be enough for the player to be freed from harbinger, but the amount of information you get in the process should scale from there. A bare minimum 60% clear should give you the choices without much context on the reapers. A full 100% clear should give you information on their entire purpose, as if you forcibly gathered the information from harbinger while battling him during indoctrination. This should also determine how many companions survive the decision event and escape from the citadel, similar to escaping the collector base.

A perfect game would have everyone alive and well at the end, having saved the galaxy with flying colors. It should be an option because people want it, but most people will end up with an imperfect game, and face some losses and tough decisions without seeing the bigger picture completely, this is good drama, and should be the average ending you get: high attrition and blind leaps of faith in choices that affect the whole galaxy.

I've shelved the game in hopes that something like what I posted above will save the day. BioWare has an amazing chance to make their mark as the company that listens to, and takes care of their fans. Take the chance, and don't short change us, and we'll show you loyalty. BioWare, this is your companion loyalty mission for us; make us proud.

[Astbruchgefahr]

The ending begins to breakdown with the unseen capture of the citadel. Not many people have pointed this out, but why don't the reapers just shut down the relay network?!?! They once again have control of the trap they used for centuries. I understand wanting to have a big battle on earth to finish the series, but that compromised the story. Maybe just have the conduit on earth go to the citadel in its current location. We need to see the battle of the citadel, even if we can't win it. Then we can go to earth.

The logical flaws of the ending sequence are well documented now. All I expected was a range of endings based on my actions in the previous games! (Which is what we were promised!) An ending were you fail to break the cycle and an ending where you do, and the variation can be at what cost you did so. If you fail to secure enough Krogan ground support for instance, the assault suffers heavy casualties and Anderson dies. That would be OK, because I would know that it was my fault it happened due to my decisions.

The problem with the ending is not that Shepard sacrifices herself, or that its sad, its that we are railroaded into an end where there is essentially no choice at all. What we want is an ending that feels connected to our decisions in the game and at least gives a chance for us to overcome the odds, which is essentially what the whole series is about.

Modifié par Astbruchgefahr, 19 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[THE_RABID_MOOSE]

So much feedback, they must be getting overwhelmed XD

[Magnusvonkilgore]

Let me start by saying i had no problem with the "darkness" of the ending. Yeah, i fully expected shepard to die. i'm cool with it. the story i've built for the last five years couldn't really have ended any other way, but i would like to feel like it mattered to someone.
i don't know how to word this properly, but my favorite part of the series was the characters and their complex relationships. i would have loved if the last ten minutes addressed these issues.

1. i find it hard to believe that shepard, having been haunted by the memories of those he/she'd lost over the last three years would have no interest in the fate of those squad members who had been right behind him/her during the charge to the conduit (especially if the LI had been present). this could have added an entirely new emotional wrinkle to his/her decisions at the end. Would Shepard finally break? or would it strengthen his/her resolve? i'm sure theres no fix for this, but i definitely missed it.

2. also, while i wasn't expecting beach houses, little blue babies, or drinks at the bar, i would have liked to have seen something more about the crew after shepard's sacrifice/ascendancy. i would feel like this was shepard's immediate legacy and would have been more satisfied with that than the stargazer ending. yes i'm a cheesy romantic. i wanted more attention paid to the LI. there! i said it!

3. and, of course, i second all of the questions about the plot holes: what was joker doing at a relay, dark energy, how did the squad make it back up to the normandy so quickly, why did my character act in a manner so contrary to his/her established personality when dealing with the "godchild", etc.

4. I do like the indoctrination angle, though it fits best (i would think) if it occurs during the last meeting with the illusive man, since that is the EXACT moment things started to get weird. aside from the touching moment with Shep and Anderson, i wouldn't miss any of the ending from this point on.

[Jackal7713]

Bioware should watch and take notes.

[gifnizzle]

 synopsis (for easier data entry into spreadsheet or whatever you folks use to track these)

Great/Good: +almost EVERYTHING up to Harbinger blast
             +Music during end cutscenes (still prefered Jack Wall but Mansel hit that one well)
             +Cutscene of humans fighting on Earth (good camera work on descending Reaper frigate)
             +End credits music

Good but potentially needed to be sacrificed if "Indoctrination Theory" is correct/implemented after the fact:
             +Injured Shepard (controls, camera work, 'mood' prior to Catalyst meeting)
             +perspective shot of Shepard slumping over controls as Citadel wards open (beautiful shot)
             +Shepards final quiet moments with Andersen (even without cut dialogue it works great)
             
OK/Iffy, also potentially needed to be excised/redone if "Indoctrination Theory" is implemented:
            +Illusive Man showdown (uneven dialogue, some good lines, some preachy/flat/out of character)

Ok/Fair/can live with but could have been done better:
             +/-Crucible (pretty much the whole plotline surrounding it) but especially its deployment to citadel
             +/-Space battle:
                                     +cutscenes that were shown were outstanding
                                      -however not enough of an empahsis, needed to show more
                                      -not enough variety in what was shown to reflect war assets accululated
                                      -Reapers devalued as an antagonist, not shown being as 'devastating as we'd been led to believe
                                     -Because space battle de-emphasized it appears Crucible just 'walks' up to Citadel unopposed, should've at least shown some of the fleet 'punching a whole' to get it within range
              +/-No reaction from Keepers in Citadel. I shot a thing a bunch of times and it did nothing. On a related note I was really hoping to learn more about them at some point, but I can also appreciate the mystery of never having them explained, it's interesting either way. Feel like they're kinda sinister yet tragic.


Bad, potentially fixed by excising via "indoctrination theory":
          -No Harbringer. I'm not saying you need to have a boss fight or something with him/it, but dialogue interactions with Sovergn and Harbringer were so memorable in ME1&2 that not having even a single line from the thing in 3 feels like something missing.
          -Contradiction of previous lore re: Reapers. Specifically stated by Sovergn in ME1 and expounded upon by EDI in ME2 (not to mention Harbringer dialogue throughout that game) shows Reapers to be 'each a nation', sentient and independent yet unified in a way that was unknowable. To have a single controlling AI renders them as nothing more than smart tools (why explaining them at all is kind of a bad idea, leave them mysterious) which leads us to...
          - "starchild", concept was interesting, poorly executed. Not so much visual, that was the interesting part.
what really makes it teeth grinding is the dialogue/voice acting. The thing actually seems childish and petulant, not ancient/inteligient/menacing/wise/whatever.
          - Explanation/Backstory of the Reapers. Honestly, it would've been better to leave them more of a mystery, a sinister unknowable 'force of nature'
         -Starchild dialogue: Part of this is the voice acting delivery, but frankly its logic and reasoning seem really weak, both when explaning the Reapers/cycles but also when explaning the choices and potential outcomes. Perhaps that was part of the intention, that this whole endless cycle of zillions upon zillions slaughtered was based on a false assumption, but even if that were the case that leads to...


HORRIBLE/DEAL BREAKERS/please change via "indoctrination theory" or some other means:
         -Lack of meaningful dialogue/rebuttal options during conversation with 'starchild'. My and thousands of other Sheps just proved synthetics and organics can get along just fine. Thousands of others at least proved that they can handle the synths in a fight if they have to. Even the Protheans handled thier AI problem, perhaps not diplomatically but it still resulted in organic life being perserved. Even a paragon Shep needs the option to tell this thing it's stupid/wrong/lying.  WTF is wrong with a little Chaos in the universe anyway? Again, perhaps thats part of the point, machine logic and all (making the childishness of it all the more grating) but that Shep just nods about it SUCKS. Hell, give me an option that AGREES with his flawed BS logic, but give my Shep CHOICE to say SOMETHING meaningful to this litte mass murderer.
          -Lack of variety in ending cutscenes. Seriously folks, this should never have passed in the first place. 85% the same exacting ending sequence with different colored light?  That's just weak, but also a direct result of...
          -Lack of variety in ENDINGS PERIOD. Now this has nothing to do with wanting the 'happy' ending. I honestly really want an ending where the Reapers totally win and the cycles continue. I also would like an ending where the mass relays DON'T explode. Also an ending where ONLY the Reapers are killed/gone. And yes, ok, i would also like an ending where Shep lives if possible. Point is there should be multiple potential outcomes, not just 3 which is really just one. It destroys any replay value as it currently stands.
          -Disposition of Normandy and squadmates: The reason my squad is on the ship and its traveling through a mass relay at the time of detonation of the Crucible completely escapes me. Either explain it or take it out please.
           -Disposition of Earth and Allied Fleets. Some kind of small coda or whatnot is needed, even if it's only a few seconds of cutscene, to show what happened to the fleet. Even better if there was some way of stating what WILL happen to them after I'm gone (if mass relays are still destroyed)
           -No epilogue: I know thats what was intended with the 'stargazer and kid' post credits and I appreciate the meaningfulness of it, but before you show that you need to show at least something of what happened of the people you actually cared about, even if its as simple as a quiet scene of mourning and/or celebrating. It really doesn't have to be much, but something that shows these were real people that I interacted with and that we all left a lasting impression on each other. The 'goodbyes' that happen before the final push are very good but insufficient to provide closure, mostly because they come, well, before things are closed. You don't need to know every detail of what happens to thier lives afterward but you do need to know at least thier emmotional/physical state post outcome. That's how we get closure by and large. We can extrapolate from there. A scene of them staring at a sunrise post crash doesn't cut it, partially because the reason for the crash is still being processed in our brains at the time (see above).
          -No explanation for why destorying mass relays THIS time won't destroy a solar system. I'm actually kinda nitpicking on this one since I can 'fanwank' that the energy released was somehow directed/different, but its still inconsisent with established lore and makes destroying the relays feel kinda cheap. I don't even mind that they get destroyed (though I want the possibility of an ending or two where they aren't), I can appreciate the devestation cutting off the galaxy from each other causes and how it'll force organics to come up with thier own FTL tech maybe. But the way it's handled now is cheap and inconsistent

As how I'd fix all these issues, I'd say either go with Indoctrination Theory (not perfect but fits) and do a whole new ending, or at the very least edit the existing ending via dialogue options and expended cutscenes to reflect more choice, consequence. variety, and closure. If there had to be words written on a whiteboard somewhere during a group meeting those would be it: CHOICE, CONSEQUENCE, VARIETY, and CLOSURE. Hope this has been constructive critisism and I hope you folks are legitmately asking for this feedback with plans of taking action. Thank you





             

[movieguyabw]

Jackal7713 wrote...

Bioware should watch and take notes.

While I don't feel that saying "you should take notes!" is the best way to present this video to them, I do feel this is a very intelligent analysis of what many of us disliked about the endings.  I do feel it's a video worth watching through, though I'm sure most of the points he mentions have been stated countless times before, in this thread alone.  He does, however, go into depth on why these particular choices with regards to the end do not sit well with many fans.

So, yes, Bioware, please do check this video out. 

Edit:  This video is also pretty interesting, as well.

Modifié par movieguyabw, 19 mars 2012 - 03:38 .

[Captain Flowers]

SkaldFish wrote...

In looking more closely at the content in the core of the story resolution, I think one thing that is problematic is the fsct that it becomes very difficult to keep on suspending disbelief. I think that's mainly due to the fact that the narrative becomes a continuous sequence of tired tropes clumsily strung together. The "trope density" is off the charts. A quick (not neccessarily definitive) analysis is below, with each trope linked to a description:

[...stuff happens and...]
Shepard is, for the first time, introduced to a Sufficiently Advanced Alien, an Energy Being who, to take A Form You Are Comfortable With appears as an Adorably Precocious Child. This being, an ancient Artificial Intelligence, explains that he has seen so many Robot Wars across the millenia that, in an attempt to resolve the situation, he developed a Reset Button solution. In doing so, however, he has become a Well-Intentioned Extremist who sees the struggle between organics and synthetics as an Order vs Chaos problem in which his role is to restore order. His solution, creation of the Reapers, required him to Jump Off the Slippery Slope and accept that The Revolution Will Not Be Civilized; the most advanced civilzations will be periodically "processed" by this Horde of Alien Locusts to short-circuit the Robot War cycle.

After explaining I Did What I Had To Do (which may qualify as a bizarre twist on the Hannibal Lecture), the being claims (in a lightning-fast E = MC Hammer moment) that Shepard's presence "changes things," and presents him/her with a set of Final Solution choices. Each of these choices casually demands that Shepard cross his/her own Moral Event Horizon by presenting catastrophic variations on an End of the World As We Know It solution initiated via a Big Red Button Self-Destruct Mechanism.

In an act of Heroic Sacrifice, without a word of questioning, objection, or realization that "I Forgot I Could Change the Rules," Shepard selects an option and ends the trilogy with a Dying Moment of Awesome.

This man knows his tropes. Of course, the Mass Effect series is a deconstruction of the Space Opera, but these are devices that, if used well, we still like to see.