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ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed


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#3276
daninusa

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Ok, the problem with the ending is that it destroys the very things for which we loved about the trilogy to begin with. It makes everything we did in the previous games and even in this game utterly pointless

1. GIVE US THE OPTION TO KEEP THE RELAYS AND SAVE GALACTIC CIVILIZATION
Destruction of the mass relays destroys the galactic community we loved and were fighting for We want to see that galaxy we fought for and the civilizations we saved grow and prosper: For example, you might show us the Krogan making Tuchanka bloom or sending delegations to the Salarian homeworld. Show us Turians helping to rebuild earth, or humans rebuilding Palaven. Show the Quarians building a thriving home world with help from the geth . Show us Drell finding a suitable home world and building it up, show us Hanar restoring the Prothean archives on Mars and making it into a temple. And all this with the help of massive Volus trade fleets In short show us that we actually saved some or all of the universe we fell in love with throughout the trilogy, rather than destroying it. Otherwise we may just as well have let the reapers win and restart the cycle.

2.  HAVE ALL OF SHEPHARD'S FRIENDS FIGHT WITH HIM TO THE END
The ending makes it seem that all the friendships Shepherd has made with all the people willing to follow him to hell and back mean nothing. In the end he is alone without any of his allies at his side, and after he dies all his friends (presumably) are trapped on earth with all their lives ruined; that makes no sense. Show us that his friends are all willing to fight with him to the end; grunt charging in to stand with his battlemaster. Guarrus and Legion thinning the hordes around him with sniper rifles. Samara and Miranda shielding him from storms of bullets. In short, show us that all his friends really will follow him into hell itself. And after the battle ends, show them going back and rebuilding their lives, seeing their loved ones, leading their peoples - Samara with her daughter, Miranda with her sister, Guarrus on Palaven, Wrex on Tuchanka, etc.. Show us that all of those people we've met are true friends and that we've given them a future
Otherwise what does it matter whether we saved everyone in ME 2 or no one?

3. LET US USE OUR WAR ASSETS, OR AT LEAST SHOW EACH IN ACTION
In the final battle show our war assets in play, preferably let us call them in a la Dragon age Origins, but at least show them in CGI - Show us charging bands of Krogan pushing back Brutes, Turian platoons in firefights with marauders, Asari commandos taking out banshies, Batarian mercenaries fighting packs of cannibals. Show us that our war assets are taking part in the actual war. Otherwise why did we bother getting them?

These are the three critical problems with the ending that must be fixed, because they make us wonder why we even bothered to play any of the three games.


4. GET RID OF THE STAR CHILD
just let the galactic civilizations fight and defeat the Reapers. The star-child's presence turns the reapers from all-powerful, sinister foes into pawns of a predetermined fate that they and organics are all trapped in, which again begs the question of why did we bother to fight them, or to make any of the choices that we bothered making if there is a divine entity that will show up out of nowhere and force a fate on all of us.  It seriously makes me think that this "star-child" is the real threat and reapers and organics should have forged an alliance to take him down.  A twist ending is only good if it makes the story make sense from in a new way, but if you twist the ending so much taht the story no longer makes sense, then you've ruined the story.

Modifié par daninusa, 19 mars 2012 - 07:39 .


#3277
Guest_PDesign_*

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mHawke and fHawke VA for MP characters pls.

#3278
Aldyramon

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hi Jessica and Bioware,

I did not read the other posts, but I wanted to give my personal opinion and feedback for ME3:

The game is amazing, I had so much fun with it, epic moments, scene so sad that I cried, jokes so funny that I had to pause just to stop laughing. So most of this is kind of nitpicking because I will point out the things I did not like in a game that I think is amazing.
I will first talk about the game as a whole and then go into details about the last mission and the ending.

Mass Effect 3 overall:
  • Journal: I would like to see the Journal fixed so that it can track quest progress and maybe the possibility to sort them.
  • FoV: The option to change the Field of View should be included.
  • controlls: I would like to map dodge/roll on a different key than cover and on PC that should be no problem.
  • Talis Face: I would like that you give the Photo to an artist and tell him "This is our concept of Tali, can you paint us a picture and use this as a loose sketch of how it should look".
The real problem here is FoV: I can play the game, but I feel unconfortable after a while. I can put up with it but I think that a PC game must include a FoV Slider to provide options for different display sizes etc. These other 2 are more nitpicking than real problems, I didn't even realise that the Journal was static till half way throu the game.

Priority Earth:

  • War Assets: As it is now the cutscene with the Fleet arriving at earth only includes the ships gathered in the main plot. I think there should be more variations for the different War assets: Hanar Ships, the Batarian Fleet, the Destiny Assencion, Volus Bomber Squad, Rachni Queen etc. More or less every major War Asset should have be giving a little scene. I don't need anything long and epic, but e.g. a 5s clip were a Baterian Fighter Pilot fights of a Ocolus would suffice. Same goes for the Ground mission: I want to see my Krogans riding Saurier into battle. I want to get cover fire by the Armali Sniper Unit while I am pressing forward with my fellow Alliance marines of the 103rd. I want Elcor "living tank" side by side with the alliance tanks. The STG regements flanking the enemy. Bombing runs by the Volus Bombing Squad. Spectre Units in battle. Drell Assassins picking of husks. Geth Prime Platoon, Turian Blackwatch, Turian Spec Ops Team, Aralakh Company, .... In Short: Show me all the stuff I gathered in action.

  • Mission Structure: I really liked the Suicide Mission where you had to assign taks to your squadmates and asses theirs stenghts to pick the right person for the right job. In ME3 you more of less take your 2 Squadmates and the rest of the crew is just waiting. I would really like if there were a complex operation planned for the final push towards the portal/beam and that I can assign my (Ground Troop) War Assets and Squadmates toward different Tasks in that Operation, so that I get more of the feeling that everybody is doing his best to beat the reapers.

The Ending vs alternate Ending

I am kind of conflicted about the ending. I get were the ending is coming from, but I think there are still some flaws in the execution.
  • I did not really get the reason for the reapers existence until I read one of the many articles. The whole "We kill advanced organics to save all organics from extinction (by the synthetics)" is not that clear in the kids statement. This should be better explained if you keep the ending as it is now, because it is clearly confusing many people.
  • If the Ending is only looking at the big picture: "You saved Generations and Species in the Future for the Reapers, even if it means sacrificing enitre civilatisations and setting transportation back for centuries" you should make this point more clear. If ME was Shepard's fight for future species and generations to live "reaper-free" instead of a fight to save the current civilisations and to"Take Earth Back" I can understand that, but the whole game and it's surrounding ads, marketing etc. did paint an entirely different picture. It you were going for this "Big Picture Ending" you should have been hinted this more during the game. I would even go so far and cut the whole Normandy Crash Scene from the ending and instead maybe show a future Spacefaring species that found one of Liara's Black Boxes and the debris field arround Earth and piecing together that Shepard saved them from the Reaper Thread millienia ago.

I would love to see a more closure ending, where you can see what becomes of the galaxy: Did Shepard "take Earth Back"? what are our Squadmates doing? What about the other races? Many others had really good suggestions how you could end ME3 differently.

You more or less have 2 path to choose:
  • An ending that looks at the big picture, changes the ME Universe forever and shows how with great sacrifices Shepards Alliance saved the Future for millenia to come.
OR
  • An ending that centers arround Shepard, his friends and the Species of the Present. Showing how they recover and prosper after the Reaper are beaten. This would more or less require to keep the ME Universe in the Status Quo or at least not change too much (e.g. not cripling transportation by blowing up Mass relays).
So if you choose one and execute it in a good and satisfying way I would be happy, but right now the Ending is kind of a mix of both not commiting to anything and the plot holes like Jokers fleeing or Squadmate teleportation is very disappointing for me.

Modifié par Aldyramon, 19 mars 2012 - 07:43 .


#3279
Jason O. Jensen

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First of all, great game, an emotional rollercoaster. My shepard actually evolved an became more uncertain about the consequences of his actions (wheras before he would just take the most agressive route and give a damn about the consequences... which generally worked out). Secondly my anger over the ending is a result of the successful emotional involvement you've achieved. When that all gets stranded at the ending the emotion has to go somewhere and currently it's anger at Bioware. Here are my more specific suggestions.

Ending suggestions:
 1. I want to save the galaxy. That means no destruction of the mass relays. 

      incidentally:
      1.1 don't strand the assembled might of the galaxy outside of earth with no way home.
      1.2 don't strand the people I care about on a foreign planet with no way home, especially with no explanation why there were caught between relays in the first place.

2. Don't force me to destroy all synthetics when I brokered peace between the quarians and the geth. The synthesis option doesn't actually reflect the tolerance and understanding which is a theme in the game as synthesis is forced. The control option eerily notes "if you think you can control them" so that's automatically a poor option when talking about reapers; why would shepard think he could control them indefinitely.

 3. I want to live. The death of Shepard is certainly fitting and could be done right, but mostly I want my shepard to retire with jack and garrus. I have never played Shepard as a tragic hero so there's a disconnect when he dies like one (and then let's you "continue the legend" afterwards).(I do acknowledge that he actually does live in the destruction ending. Ironically that's the ending which is most fitting the tragic hero since you have to destroy the geth.

 4. I want to see how my choices affect the further development of the galaxy. As an example, I decided to destroy the cure in ME2 and as a result Eve died leaving Wreav unshacled, so throughout the game I'm worried that I've doomed the galaxy even if we defeat the reapers. I also didn't kill the rachni queen, a potential destabilizing event as well.

Other feedback/suggestions.
1. All the characters that can't be on your squad have convenient excuses why they can't come with you. The only one I really bought was Thane's excuse... maybe because it was the first one and I didn't see through it. I understand the reason why: it would have taken a lot more work, still kinda breaks the suspension of disbelief: these people followed you through the omega relay and the enemy you're facing now is an even greater threat. Anyway I would actually pay for DLC that would let me play with those characters as part of my crew (In my case Jack, but others probably have different preferences). Incidentally, the From Ashes DLC was amazing, playing through with Javik felt like he was a main character, with appropriate responses throughout the game (even if the actual dialog with him was mostly absent).

2. Given how belligerent wreav is, I wanted a way to place Grunt in his stead, though I suppose he's already there because I killed Wrex.

3. I wanted my decision to keep the collector base to have a larger impact. Not really a big deal but would have been nice. ING's guide explains how it affects the ending, it would have been nice if it were more explicit.

4. After the Salarian diplomat warned me about being a bully I got worried my shepards non-diplomatic ways were going to destroy the the efforts to forge an alliance strong enough to oppose the reapers, and I actually got more diplomatic after that. Anyway, it makes sense that the salarians eventually signed up, but was slightly dissapointing that it did not have a lasting effect. 

Great game, hope you can use the feedback. For what it's worth: I watched the release trailer again and it still makes me feel excited about the game... but mostly because I've re-written the ending in my head.

#3280
SiberETP

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I want to start by saying I loved this game, I loved it so much I'm replaying it, but years of loving failed franchises has honed by ability to tune out the bad and enjoy the good. All my future playthroughs are probably going to see me turning off the game five minutes early. So I'm going to split this into two bits, things I'd like to see tweaked/added in the bulk of the game, and my feelings on the ending.

MAIN GAME

* The shooting range is an excellent touch, but I'd really like to be able to use it without hauling my ass over to the citadel. Isn't there enough room in the shuttle bay for a range? It'd be a fitting addition for the Normandy, I think.

* Relatedly, I'd love to see numerical data on the guns in game. Their stat bars are sometimes misleading or hard to judge, and things like damage multipliers vs various defenses are impossible to accurately pin down without frustating testing, when they could easily be displayed in plain text. It might be a bit immersion breaking for some, but hide it behind a button and it should be fine.

* It'd have been nice for the romances to have a bit more flexibility based on if you picked up a thread from past games. My Shepard has been true to Liara from ME1, and from the first dream sequence on there were plenty of times when it just seemed like Shepard or Liara needed at least a hug, but they were locked in a romantic holding pattern so things could develop naturally for new players. My impression is Liara's was the best romance in this regard, so I feel bad for other Shepards(Lovers of Jacob in particular.) This would have been a lot of new content, but so long as I'm dreaming... I did very much enjoy the romance plot and all the character writing in general.

* Why are all the galaxy's ships still using mass drivers as their sole prime armament? The Thanix Cannons are demonstrably devastating in ME2's ending, and while it's entirely plausible that only some ships would be refitted with them by now, it's boggling to think none of them are. This question is present through all the battle scenes in the game.

* I'd have loved there to be basic husk varieties of all aliens, possibly as far as making Husk, Cannibal, and Marauder to be 'classes' of husk that can be applied to all species. This is most aggravating with Krogans and Asari; we're told that only Ardat-Yakshi can be Banshees, and they compose a tiny fraction of the Asari population, so what are the reapers doing with all the other Asari? Brutes on the other hand are just a goofy idea. They take husks from sufficiently advanced technology to just plain lego genetics, if the Reapers can glue species of different amino acid chirallity together like that, I find it hard to believe they need any stock to work from at all. Were mutant armored berserk krogans just not scary enough on their own? Again, this could be content prohibitive, but would make the situation feel more real to me.

* Better quest tracking would be nice. At one point I got a quest to help evacuate the Elcor homeworld, but then found that I didn't know what system or cluster it was in. I was thus entirely unable to find them and do any good. This problem plauges all the quest tracking.

* I really wish we'd seen suitless quarrians, and I wish if we had seen them that they were decidedly nonhuman in face. The Asari looking so human is frustrating enough from the perspective of a hard sci-fi lover, another set of human faces in the universe would simply compound the issue.

* I wish my alien crew didn't wear armor everywhere. Shepard and James both have casual wear, I'd rather see Liara wear that old Asari Scientist outfit, Garrus get on those funky Turian clothes, maybe have Tali hang up some of her gear for a while(though obviously not desuit totally). And if I were in Shepard's place, I'd have found a spare uniform for EDI before letting her wander the halls. I know she's a robot, but c'mon.

SUBHEADING: Multiplayer

* I'd LOVE some MP game modes that deviate from the hold-against-waves formula. Pushing through fixed enemy defenses would be wonderful.

* Face customization would be nice. Separate facepaint color and pattern for turrians and asari, stronger skin color options for all... Shepard levels of face customization would be lovely, but super unlikely. Same with armor piece customization on humans/everyone. Maybe a few different outfits?

* A variation on the Spectre shooting range would be appreciated. A testing mode with some targets, no AIs, and a weapon bench. Let me test out weapon loadouts, cooldown times, and my interaction with my teammate's cooldowns. Probably relatively tricky to code, but it'd be a godsend.

ENDING

Logic/Lore/Plot: Though I feel dirty for saying it, this is the category that means the least to me. It's important sure, but I was prepared for plot holes galore and I think I could live with them if the ending was otherwise satisfying. So I'll skim.

* The Catalyst AI, how does it exist but have no influence over the Reapers? This is a pretty big deal, because the whole point of ME1 was that the reaper's automation of the citadel was broken. Now there is a Reaper related AI on the citadel? For that matter, why didn't the Reapers turn off the mass relay network once they had the citadel?

* The Catalyst asserts that the cycle of AI overthrowing organics is unavoidable and implies that it has happened many times. If this is true, and without any destabilizing influences from past cycles this is unavoidable, then who build the Reapers? It can't have been the galaxy's first organic civilization, since their AIs must have overthrown them. Could it have been the first cycle's AIs? Why would they set out to preserve organics after having exterminated theirs? It can't have been the second cycle's organics, because there wouldn't be any, the first AIs would have total galactic dominance and not allow such a challenge. Unless something wiped out the first AIs, in which case the cycle existed before the reapers and there is no need for them to exist. Other working explanations for Reaper origins and behavior are possible that have fewer holes than this, but if anything was going to be left mysterious as this series closed, the motivations and origins of the Reapers should have been it.

* Theres that Conduit thing on Ilos that seems like it'd let us bypass this whole mad dash through London business. This could be written around any number of ways, but should have been at least mentioned, possibly only mentioned if you imported a save with ME1 data to not confuse new players.

Theme: The ending of ME3 seems to be built on the premise that the theme of the series is Synthetics vs Organics, but that doesn't seem to be the case for me. In fact ME3 actively undermines this ending. EDI is develops towards humanity the whole game if you lead her down that path. The Geth form a symbiosis with the Quarians, if you help them. Then in the end, your choices revolve around the idea that everything you just did isn't possible.

Looking back on the series, I think the theme running through it that speaks strongest to me is one of personal agency. Player choice is central to the experience, but also shepard's choices, and Shepard's defiance. The council tells you you're grounded, that theres no such thing as Reapers, and you steal the Normandy. Everyone tells you Cerberus is bad news, or that the Omega 4 relay is a suicide mission, but you fight the collectors anyway. The Illusive Man tries to control you, and you tell walk off with the SR2. Can't cure the genophage? I cured it. Can't unite the Quarrians and Geth? I united them.

So in the end, you have player choice yes. One choice that renders all your history pointless, not a culmination of past decisions leading to one inevitable conclusion. No matter what I've done, so long as I've scrounged the galaxy enough and played enough MP, I can switch courses at the end and anybody else could do the same. And It's not a choice of Shepard's making. Shepard is handed the ending, as if god came down and said "Yes, you did well Shepard, now die and I'll make everything right." There is no final heroic sacrifice, Shepard instead rolls over and lets someone else do the thinking in the final moments. This is why the ending feels like it's a betrayal of her character to me, because it doesn't grow naturally from what came before, but instead happens because the narrative demands a resolution and a death.

Emotion: The run through London may not have been the most tactically/loreisticly sound battle sequence, but it got my blood pumping. I got into it, I shouted at the reaper destroyer, I shouted in victory when the missiles hit it, I swore at harbinger. I was excited. Then the beam hit me. When I got up, my first thought was 'where is my squad?'. As I stepped into the beam I wondered abut Kaiden and Liara, worried if they survived. Walking through the citadel, talking to TIM, talking to the Catalyst, all throughout I was /distracted/, not excited.

Talking to TIM I started to get back into it, because that was very well written. I believed that this man believed, and that he was dominated, I bought the story again. But the conversation with the Catalyst, the final moments... I didn't feel victorious, I felt helpless. I threw myself into the green ending because I felt it was the only option available to me, it was a form of desperation. And the final scenes? The Normandy flying away for no good reason, Liara back on the ship for no good reason? I was confused.

In the end I felt drained, and not the least bit triumphant. Drained is to be expected, at the end of a powerful series you should feel exhausted by all the ups and downs. And don't get me wrong, the ending shouldn't necessarily be all roses, it should have some bitterness. This is a war, and the game goes to considerable length to tell us that war sucks. But Mordin's death scene left me feeling sad, but like he went out well. Like that was the only way he could have gone out. Shepard's death was just... empty.

Why? Because through the whole game it is built up what we are fighting for. The game got me into Shepard's head, I think. I didn't want to beat the reapers to beat the reapers. I wasn't fighting to beat the reapers. I was fighting for Earth, for Palaven, for Thessia, for Tuchanka and Rannoch. I was fighting to save all the people I'd come to know over these three games, to give them the chance to rebuild and make right the damage. None of the endings gave me that. While I do want to see my Shepard in a seaside cottage on Rannoch surrounded by little blue children, Normandy and Mako parked outside, I'm not going to pretend that's the only ending that would satisfy me. But this sudden death... the ending brought me to an emotional high and the just ended, as sure as if I finished off TIM and then got a screen saying "Game Over, you win!".

BACKSEAT WORLDBUILDING

I had a few ideas on how I'd have written certain elements without going entirely off the rails of the game as it exists, and felt like sharing them.

* A conventional victory: The Cruicible is a giant disruptor bomb. Hook it up to the Citadel, turn it on, and it rattles anything in range with an active mass effect field into paste, Reapers inlcuded.

* Repear Origins: The first post-singularity civilization in the galaxy, eventually coallesed into the first Repear and left the galaxy to ponder infinity in dark space. They return every so often to bring other species up to Reaperhood in a way that enhances their(The reapers, that is) collective existence, ensures loyalty, and prevents any species from reaching a similar level of existance while still retaining any free will and thus being a threat.

#3281
sistersafetypin

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PDesign wrote...

mHawke and fHawke VA for MP characters pls.


Don't know what mHawke sounds like... But fHawke ftw!

#3282
lnccplbunbun

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I don’t want to tell you what to write. I respect the job you did up to the ending too much (Rannoch, Tuchanka, and many of the side missions were brilliant) for me to want to write the ending for you.

As a counterpoint to many of the requests for a happy ending, if anything I thought it was all a little too bright. After the fake suicide mission in 2, I expected characters to die here (in spite of having maxed out readiness). I actually spent a long time thinking about who to take on the final mission _not_ due to skills, but rather because I wasn’t sure whether I’d have a better chance of keeping certain characters alive with me or on the ship.

Frankly, I would have been happier with at least some ME2-style ending choices. You have to pick people (or war resources, if available) to send into certain-death situations. And, unlike ME2, these would be actual death moments. The ending mission could have been hard choice after hard choice which is really what you’d set us up to expect. As is, it was a pretty ordinary fight.

Beyond tone, as many people have pointed out, the ending didn’t logically cohere within the context of the story or the world you built. Critically, even if you wanted to pull the world we thought we’d been playing in out from under us, you can’t both do that _and_ change the characters’ personalities simultaneously without some serious explanation. Otherwise, it looks like either just a storytelling failure or the budget ran out.

One example of this is the fact that, when told by Starchild that organics and synthetics can’t coexist, Shep didn’t even have an option to argue, to point out that, ahem, I just made peace between the Quarians and Geth and my ship AI has become more than a colleague, but a trusted friend who has learned from that very mistakes that you reapers made and altered her programming accordingly.

Maybe the Starchild insists, doesn’t acknowledge the point or something else, but Shep would have argued. Maybe the final choices do fit with the universe you wanted to build, and that could be a dark (and unsatisfying but acceptable) ending. But Shep had rejected those choices from ME1 on. You have to show him/her being forced to accept them.

More importantly, every choice made up to that point was thrown out. It just didn’t matter. Once again, if this is the way you wanted to go, I understand.  But, if the point is that there are cosmic forces where human (or alien) choices really don’t matter, I’m fine with that, but Shep is going to argue that point. 2.99 games have been spent with him/her arguing against fate/impossible odds at every turn. For him to stop without explanation in the moment when it matters most is bizarre and, at best, a narrative failure. If you want to go that route in the ending, you need to have dialogue acknowledging that this is a departure and why he’s being forced to accept it.

Additionally, three endings which vary primarily in the color of the explosions and which characters get off the crashed Normandy (including characters brought on the final suicide charge on the beam!) was a jarring change from the quality and variation of the endings to the individual sub-missions. After I played the synthesis ending, I thought I must have chosen a bad ending and so went back and played the other two before getting very very annoyed.

I didn’t need a happy ending, but I did want want to make a choice that mattered (or, at very least, be told why none of my choices mattered). Frankly, this could have been a superb opportunity to have the conclusion be the hardest choice of the game which would have been awesome.

For example, depending on readiness, choices, etc, choices could have included:
  • Activate crucible which will destroy the reapers but also the mass relays (which I actually expected. I thought that all of Legion’s talk in ME2 about not taking the gifts of the old machines would finally come back with the galaxy finding its own path forward rather than relying on the tech of past civilizations (paradoxically, freeing itself with the crucible, itself tech from past civilizations)). Variations on this could have included a version which did detonate the relays in Arrival fashion, so wiping out trillions of lives, all major planets, and your crew and everyone who trusted you enough to come to Earth, but leaving a few isolated colonies to rebuild and move forward without reapers (obviously a hard choice to make).
  • Similar, but perhaps a better version (higher readiness rating to unlock?) where you’re able to delay long enough to evacuate and perhaps save a few more millions of lives as ships are able to get out of the range of the relay explosions (including the tragedy of the Quarians (now with Geth help) leaving their homeworld to burn weeks after returning to it)
  • Alternately, destruction of the network but without the system-ending explosions. Low readiness means it has to happen now. Fleets stranded on earth doomed to death. People stuck wherever they were. High readiness gives you time to shift populations around. You get to choose whether you stay with LI or on Earth (if that’s a choice). Highest readiness gives you lots of time. Enough to find a system with several life-worlds capable of supporting at least the major civilization species. Before the network is destroyed, volunteers move to this system as a final proof that coexistence is possible. You and your surviving crew go there.
  • Let the reaping continue as a pattern of galactic pruning. Better to lose current civilizations then to let the galaxy burn and so end all possibilities of future civilizations rising (perhaps you’re told that the explosions may sterilize the galaxy).
  • Version where you still lose, but have time to get more information out to improve the odds of the next round of civilizations having a better shot or at least understanding what’s coming (perhaps that ending is a cut-scene of a Shepard VI explaining the threat to an unrecognizable alien 50k years forward).
  • Version where EDI is basically preserved as our message in the bottle to the next cycle.
  • Version where the crucible turns out not to be a weapon, but an escape route. A final super-long range relay out of the galaxy and the reaper sphere of influence. Whatever fleets you were able to raise are able to escape and start again. Or, you have a choice to use the crucible as either a galaxy-buster (which ends the reapers but kills you, your crew, and most life in the galaxy) or an escape route (save you, your crew, and have a chance to rebuild, but all life you leave behind will be reaped).
  • If you wanted to be a little cheesy but bring a tear to many a gamer’s eye, perhaps an alternate version where the crucible was a one-way mass effect time capsule into which each past cycle had locked its remaining forces in a sort of stasis. The catalyst was necessary to return all those forces. In one moment, a thousand cycles’ worth of final fleets emerge, having watched, in their terms, the deaths of their galaxies moments before to wreak holy vengence on the reaper armada. Touching scene with a Protheon at the end thanking you for completing the work.
The key is that all of these (except for the last one) could have been amazingly hard choices (save scattered remnants of your current civ, but lose everyone you’ve been fighting with and a billion year old galactic transit network) with no good options, but it would have been epic. The setup was that there was almost no way to beat the reapers. So force us to make an impossible choice at the end. The sort of choices that people would have been talking about, but for very different reasons than your current ending.

#3283
joiner87

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I love ME3, but the ending lacked any kind of conclusion...you built up the hope that my Shep could at least have a happy ending, then you took that choice away,not cool Bioware

#3284
Cyruge

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The ending. It feels really out of place to have gone from a classical Star Trek/Wars-esque storytelling formula where the characters and their interactions and them going against impossible odds are the core thing of the series, to a surreal, messianic 2001: A Space Odyssey-esque ending. Sure, you can call it poetic, artistic, symbolic, etc, but it doesn't change the fact that it feels completely out of place.

#3285
Garrison2011

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Garrison2011 wrote...

Here's my fix for the ending. It ties in everything that Drew Karpshyn originally wanted as well as using what's been put forward in ME3. Take a look if you're interested.

http://social.biowar...67/blog/211936/

BIOWARE - This is the perfect out for you guys. I honestly suggest you use it or something similar to it.


Sorry for quoting myself here, but I think Bioware needs to see this... I pretty much just solved all their problems for them.

#3286
Darthur

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Give a whole wedding sequence where we can choose who will be ring bearer and best man, etc. 
I'm serious, don't rule this out, it could be awesome and hilarious. 
Give us some little character nuances, maybe Wrex is considered a good singer on Tuchanka, maybe Tali can DJ the party, you see where I'm going with this? 
People think it would be moronic, maybe, but I think it could be extremely sweet.
Some of my favorite moments was interactions between squadmates, when Tali and Garrus talked or when James was cooking while talking to Javik.
Hell, I want MORE scenes like this and what better way than to give us a damned wedding! 
Garrus hooks up with one of the bridesmaids, EDI catches the bouquet, think about it!!!

#3287
choffers

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please don't rewrite the ending bioware, just clarify what happened in the one we have. if you need to add stuff on or use the indoctrination theory that's fine. but please know that we don't hate the ending because it's not sunshine and lollipops. it's because it's not mass effect. mass effect had options, interactivity, and consistency. the ending lacked all of these things.

you should be able to point out the geth and the quarians or joker and edi as getting along if you have those. you should be able to get more clarification of what vent boy actually is (saying "no, the citadel is my home" or osmething like that still doesn't explain what he is... is it an AI or VI? is he a spirit? is he some energy thing?). you should be able to tell vent boy to just call off the reapers, or at least make that request. ask him why YOU have to be in control, can't he just do it? afterall...

what's the significance of you sacrificing yourself if he already recognizes that annihilating ("preserving") organic life is a flawed system. what's he preserving it for? we don't see other reapers that aren't squid things/ larval humans. is he keeping them safe somewhere in deep space, and if so to what purpose? is it like a trophy room for him? if they're doing this so synthetics won't wipe out organics, won't they have to wipe out synthetics anyway? otherwise the current synthetics will just have a head start on the primative organics of the current cycle; so if you have to take over/ wipe out all synthetics anyway to ensure THEY keep some organics around... why not just do that in the first place? why the hell is joker leaving the battle, and how the hell did my 2 squad mates get on the normandy with him? if the catalyst controls the reapers, and the catalyst is on the citadel, why did sovereign need to do anything? what was the point of the keepers activating the protocol if the catalyst could've just done it. 

because it renders a lot of the game irrelevant. yes i just brokered a peace between the turians and krogans, too bad they won't bee seeing each other again any time soon without the mass relays. i just spent a whole game convincing a galaxy to come together and unite inspite of their differences. now i just force them into one, or i just destroy the geth. it totally stomps on the morals of the series.

pretty much copy and pasted from what i posted on your facebook page.  

Modifié par choffers, 19 mars 2012 - 08:06 .


#3288
Reptilian Rob

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Fix your ****ty ending please. I shouldn't have to explain this one.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 19 mars 2012 - 08:10 .


#3289
ChopyChopZ

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My main problem is that the issue turned out to be synthetics vs organics.Over the course of 3games(it came out of no where ) I never once felt "it's us or them"...maybe about the reapers but certainly not the geth. To top it off the characters we come to love don' even get a epilogue. There was only abandonment. Closur

#3290
alx119

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So I finally finished Mass Effect 3, and although I was spoiled by tumblr about the ending, /I saw one image of Shepard that said "Goes through everything to save the galaxy, Dies anyways" or something the like.

I honestly... did not expect something so... Terribly depressing. The whole ending is a terrible mess up, since Harbinger comes down and beams you to almost dead that everything goes... well wrong. It doesn't feel like a win. It feels like a pure, and simple defeat. The choices were poor, unethical, radical, and most importantly, not made by Shepard, but by some sort of higher entity called the Catalyst. It's not Shepard who says: Let's take down the Reapers. Or why don't we find a way to join with the machines? Or control the Reapers? It's the Catalyst who already had the choices for you. And that feels like something so... out of the Mass Effect series feel. You shaped your story, and then... It was a lie, someone already shaped that story, and narrowed it down to three possible outcomes.

At all honesty and putting it simple, I want a happy ending. I want to jump like I did in Mass Effect 1, when Shepard came out of the wreckage. Jumped in tears. I want to breathe long and slow and say "THANK GOD ITS OVER" like I did with Mass Effect 2. And I want to rejoice in happiness for having defeated the most almighty foe of all time, reunite with my friends, hug my loved one once again, mourn in happiness the lost and finally say: We did it.

Why do I want that? Because I love Shepard, he has become a part of me while playing these series, which is what made them so addictive. Shepard was me, and I was Shepard. And I want to end my days as an old decrepit Shepard, admiring the view in Rannoch with Tali, and having adopted a little asari kid that lost her parents in Thessia. (Hey, dreaming is nice).
But that's not all, I love all the characters, my friends. There is no Shepard without Vakarian, as well as there would be no Rannoch without Miss vas Normandy, and no prothean would mean squak if it weren't for a certain Dr T'Soni I heard about. I'll always remember Williams, even if I didn't agree with her views, and Kaidan is trully a messed up kid, my friend messed up kid. How to forget about Wrex, one of the best of friends, and someone I could always trust. And Grunt? Oh he is a true krogan. I'll always have in my heart my friend Thane, who in the end died in combat, and not because of an unjust illness. The very model of a scientist salarian will always be Mordin. And Legion will always be with us, his soul was the purest I ever knew. Miranda, oh poor woman, but such a good friend. The justicars will always make me remember of my friend Samara. And the good stuff? Jacob knows about it. Hell even got to love Cortez and Vega, those locos were welcome aboard the Normandy. Speaking of which, EDI and Joker, the best helmsman and the best person I know of. And Jack, the true embodiment that people can change... The stealthy Kasumi, always bringing a bit of sunshine, even if her past does not glow at the same intensity as her personality. And Zaeed, who can show you how a person, deep inside, can be a good one. no matter your past, no matter what you've done. When I hear medi-gel? I always have a Chakwas in mind...
And I'm going to stop, I could go on forever with minor characters...

But after that ending... I won't be seeing them again, and I didn't sacrifice myself because it was the right thing to do, I would have, as Commander Shepard, given my life for all of them. But not in vain... And that's what this ending makes it feel like, everything... in vain. It was already planned. There was no choice.

And if this is the real ending, no change, and no more Commander Shepard... Honestly? I don't think I'll be replaying Mass Effect. Because everytime I'll have to make a choice, I'll remember that in the end it will be for nothing. It's already planned, and we didn't break the parameters of the story.
Multiplayer feels... Empty after the ending, I'm not Commander Shepard. I'm not me. Just another Call of Duty, only with aliens and space guns, and third person shooter. Before the ending I played a little, to make sure I had enough war assets so that Commander Shepard could succeed. It was amazing, it really felt alive. After the ending... sucks.

Before the ending, the possibility of a MMO about Mass Effect was simply amazing, I already saw myself, with an even more personal character than Shepard, reading about him, in a future after the events of ME3. Fighting mercs, Reaper remainings, exploring the galaxy, OTHER galaxies even. And at some point, reading about what Shepard did, maybe visit Dr T'Soni who would probably be a Matriarch.
But after that ending... No motivation whatsoever. I wanted to read the novels when I was playing ME3, now that I finished... I don't anymore. I wanted the comics, I look at my Tali shirt and is just... depressing.

No one likes a remembrance of a bad thing. Very much like Javik and his little beacon. I doubt he would like a shirt of the Protheans, or a shirt of a friend of his. Brings bad memories. Makes you feel bad.

Sigh... It's gonna take a while, but well, if that was the ending, like a bad moment I'll end up forgetting about it.

I will hold on to a little branch of hope, and since the kid/Catalyst appeared and tormented Shepard's dreams, I'll just think that all this was a dream, caused partly by indoctrination and by the shock when Harbinger strikes him down. Making him see a future very "Reaper-like" where it's already planned and there's no other than to follow it, whatever your decision is, showing you, of course the idillic ending where your friends are alive and all and you're a legend, so it seems you're in control and did good (submit to it). Then Shepard will wake up, having been rescued by Anderson in the last moment, and having withdrawn the attack. Back in the Normandy, the real attack will begin. The Illusive Man is still on the loose, and the Citadel hasn't open it's arms. The Catalyst, is the Conduit, and as a catalyst does will canalize the energy inside the Crucible to finally destroy the Reapers. Although the ground wars will continue, here and there. And in the end, you'll be able to roam around the galaxy, very much like Mass Effect 2 aftermath, seeing some tragic and sad scenes, and some others full of hope and happiness. And finally having the damn drinks at the Citadel. Shepard is just a soldier afterall, a legendary soldier, like Jon Grissom, he's not a Jesus. And the ending definitely doesn't need martyrs nor transcendence b******t. No need to kill the protagonist, nor is generally a good strategy in story telling, unless -very- well done (This was not the case). Killing some characters? Sure, it's a war, people die. But the protagonists? Nope. Big mistake, will infuriate people.

My two cents on this... for whatever is worth it.
In case TL;DR
-GREAT game, definitely the best installment on the series, when it comes down to interaction, roleplay, and gameplay.
-All meaningless, and brought down by a terrible and depressing ending.
->change, or expand it, that would be awesome.
-->if changes= multiplayer.... No.


All in all, if any of the Bioware guys, happen to read this (which I honestly doubt given the immense quantity of information you must receive everyday). I do not mean to be offensive or anything, but I had to let it out of my chest, the ending is depressing.

#3291
SirJeal

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Guess I'll add my two cents here.

1. I wouldn't mind the Indoctrination Theory to be real, or even just have the current ending be a hallucination that Shepard was having from loss of blood from Harbingers beam, etc.

2. Add closure for so many things. Did the Krogan rebel again once the genophage was cured? (If it was.) Did the Rachni leave again, or do other races try to exterminate them or live with them now? Did any of the races try to take advantage in the now shifted power? SO MANY things are left unsaid with no closure.

3. Add an ending where you can LOSE completely! Everything is wiped out by the Reapers! Maybe you could throw in a bit with the device that Liara made, recordings of shepard... it could cut to the next cycle 50,000 years uncovering it and maybe even show the new races toppling the Reapers! In a way, you win in the long run... but lose everything in the current time.

4. Add a really happy ending. I wouldn't mind if it's one of those "picture perfect" nice endings where Shepard lives and goes to stay with the love interest... but maybe you could make it so you actually have to work REALLY hard for it? Make choices with your war assets? What do each of the fleets do? What do each of them engage, or support? Etc.

5. Just between the totally lose everything ending, and the perfect ending, you could add so many variations between those, and that could lead into the different types of closure endings. Maybe even have some options where you talk to your crew in the end when all is said and done with the current situation, and you get some options to speak with them. (This could also vary widely depending on how well you did in the ending.)

Anyhow, I'm a little tired... I have more thoughts, but there's some of them for now.

P.S. PLEASE let us have some kind of final "Confrontation" with Harbinger. It doesn't HAVE to be a fight... even just a dialogue deal. Where maybe we can finally tell him that we've won... or maybe where he can gloat over his impending victory over us.

P.P.S. You mentioned crazy and wild ideas. Imagine if the Indoctrination theory is correct. You choose the control the reapers or synthesis ending... you wake up and now your a husk. You still control yourself, but maybe you hunt down key leaders on the planet under reaper "direction." It could be a bad ending. :P Maybe Synthesis would be that the Reapers gain partial control over you like the Illusive man. Then you fight againt them another way towards the end... and of course, destroying the "synthetics" just means you beat the indoctrination and it continues from there!

Modifié par SirJeal, 19 mars 2012 - 08:20 .


#3292
kitcat1228

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Darthur wrote...

Give a whole wedding sequence where we can choose who will be ring bearer and best man, etc. 
I'm serious, don't rule this out, it could be awesome and hilarious. 
Give us some little character nuances, maybe Wrex is considered a good singer on Tuchanka, maybe Tali can DJ the party, you see where I'm going with this? 
People think it would be moronic, maybe, but I think it could be extremely sweet.
Some of my favorite moments was interactions between squadmates, when Tali and Garrus talked or when James was cooking while talking to Javik.
Hell, I want MORE scenes like this and what better way than to give us a damned wedding! 
Garrus hooks up with one of the bridesmaids, EDI catches the bouquet, think about it!!!


This can be DLC after they fix the ending! I'd buy it!:lol:

#3293
ChopyChopZ

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My main problem is that the issue turned out to be synthetics vs organics.Over the course of 3games(it came out of no where ) I never once felt "it's us or them"...maybe about the reapers but certainly not the geth. To top it off the characters we come to love don' even get a epilogue. There was only abandonment. Closure is important between Shepard's crew and him/herself regardless if dead or alive.
Another thing is that the game practically makes you want to choose liara as a LI. Its practically been 3 years since Ashley and Shepard talk but there is barely anything to say to her after she comes aboard the Normandy. The LI's from me:2 got the worse treatment. You encounter them only 2-3 times for the rest of the game.Too much liara favoritism but maybe after the reapers are dealt with they will be some actual time to catch up?

#3294
Guest_PDesign_*

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sistersafetypin wrote...

PDesign wrote...

mHawke and fHawke VA for MP characters pls.


Don't know what mHawke sounds like... But fHawke ftw!


The funny thing is, they both in game. A Scientists from "Arrae: Ex-Cerberus Scientists" quest

#3295
joiner87

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If I wanted a depressing ending where I have no choice over how it ends, I would have turned on the news...would have been cheaper too

#3296
Kub666

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 How to make both sides happy:

1. Make the current ending a dream sequence (indoctrination or not, both fine).
2. Shepard wakes up, and is paging everybody - I got new info, relays will be destroyed by Crucible, you need to get your asses out of Solar system back to your homeworlds.
3. Everybody is clearing out, Shep continues to Crucible alone, some action sequence, maybe Normandy comes to help, I don't know; meets the Kid again, but this time blows up the thing, wakes up in the rubble.
4. Everybody is saved, but relays blown up so separated, Reapers gone, epilogue with the old man still makes sense.

So all the work done on current ending is not wasted, Bioware saves face AND money AND gets to keep the bittersweet ending, and the fans are happy.

EA please send me 5% of the profits from using this solution, Thank you!


#3297
alx119

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kitcat1228 wrote...

Darthur wrote...

Give a whole wedding sequence where we can choose who will be ring bearer and best man, etc. 
I'm serious, don't rule this out, it could be awesome and hilarious. 
Give us some little character nuances, maybe Wrex is considered a good singer on Tuchanka, maybe Tali can DJ the party, you see where I'm going with this? 
People think it would be moronic, maybe, but I think it could be extremely sweet.
Some of my favorite moments was interactions between squadmates, when Tali and Garrus talked or when James was cooking while talking to Javik.
Hell, I want MORE scenes like this and what better way than to give us a damned wedding! 
Garrus hooks up with one of the bridesmaids, EDI catches the bouquet, think about it!!!


This can be DLC after they fix the ending! I'd buy it!:lol:

Hell me too, what's better than futuristic space warfare? 
Space weddings. Hell yeah! 

#3298
Mbednar

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Kub666 wrote...

 How to make both sides happy:

1. Make the current ending a dream sequence (indoctrination or not, both fine).
2. Shepard wakes up, and is paging everybody - I got new info, relays will be destroyed by Crucible, you need to get your asses out of Solar system back to your homeworlds.
3. Everybody is clearing out, Shep continues to Crucible alone, some action sequence, maybe Normandy comes to help, I don't know; meets the Kid again, but this time blows up the thing, wakes up in the rubble.
4. Everybody is saved, but relays blown up so separated, Reapers gone, epilogue with the old man still makes sense.

So all the work done on current ending is not wasted, Bioware saves face AND money AND gets to keep the bittersweet ending, and the fans are happy.

EA please send me 5% of the profits from using this solution, Thank you!


I'm pretty sure that most of us DESPISE the idea of the relays being destroyed.  Unless I'm in the minority... If so I'll just hang my head low in the corner.

#3299
alx119

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Mbednar wrote...

Kub666 wrote...

 How to make both sides happy:

1. Make the current ending a dream sequence (indoctrination or not, both fine).
2. Shepard wakes up, and is paging everybody - I got new info, relays will be destroyed by Crucible, you need to get your asses out of Solar system back to your homeworlds.
3. Everybody is clearing out, Shep continues to Crucible alone, some action sequence, maybe Normandy comes to help, I don't know; meets the Kid again, but this time blows up the thing, wakes up in the rubble.
4. Everybody is saved, but relays blown up so separated, Reapers gone, epilogue with the old man still makes sense.

So all the work done on current ending is not wasted, Bioware saves face AND money AND gets to keep the bittersweet ending, and the fans are happy.

EA please send me 5% of the profits from using this solution, Thank you!


I'm pretty sure that most of us DESPISE the idea of the relays being destroyed.  Unless I'm in the minority... If so I'll just hang my head low in the corner.

I don't really hate the concept, it'd make sense to get rid of the technology that led to that chaos. BUT, with the Reapers gone for good, the relays aren't a thread anymore, in fact, with so many dormant, they are new opportunities. Like horrible experiments made to human beings to discover the cure, you would condemn the experiements, but if they are already done, and the cure is there... To use it is to not let the horrible experiments be for nothing.  

But if they had to be destroyed, they can be rebuilt. Aethyta already talked the asari about it, build their own mass relays. The mass effect is already there, in the whole galaxy, they have the means and knowledge. The problem is, on Arrival we all saw what happened if you destroy a mass relay :v 

#3300
hyperforce99

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Mbednar wrote...

Kub666 wrote...

 How to make both sides happy:

1. Make the current ending a dream sequence (indoctrination or not, both fine).
2. Shepard wakes up, and is paging everybody - I got new info, relays will be destroyed by Crucible, you need to get your asses out of Solar system back to your homeworlds.
3. Everybody is clearing out, Shep continues to Crucible alone, some action sequence, maybe Normandy comes to help, I don't know; meets the Kid again, but this time blows up the thing, wakes up in the rubble.
4. Everybody is saved, but relays blown up so separated, Reapers gone, epilogue with the old man still makes sense.

So all the work done on current ending is not wasted, Bioware saves face AND money AND gets to keep the bittersweet ending, and the fans are happy.

EA please send me 5% of the profits from using this solution, Thank you!


I'm pretty sure that most of us DESPISE the idea of the relays being destroyed.  Unless I'm in the minority... If so I'll just hang my head low in the corner.


No most of us dispise the relays being destroyed:

About 93% of the people that filled in this form want to keep the relays:

https://docs.google....k9oMGc6MA#gid=0 

Modifié par hyperforce99, 19 mars 2012 - 08:53 .