7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Kub666]

Mbednar wrote...

I'm pretty sure that most of us DESPISE the idea of the relays being destroyed.  Unless I'm in the minority... If so I'll just hang my head low in the corner.

Regardless of who likes what, they did not pay Buzz Aldrin for nothing. The epilogue stays, there's no other way. So the relays have to be destroyed, even if they correct the ending itself.

[Mbednar]

Well, that's why they should release an alternate ending. One independent of the current one. The current three will remain in the game but more can and should be added.

But yes I'm sure they're trying to justify paying Buzz ha

But I suppose we shouldn't stray from the topic at hand to talk about Mr Aldrin.  This thread needs even more people contributing their ideas.  I sincerely hope that more new people continue to post in this thread.  I'm honestly suprised that there are so many different people posting.  I had assumed that it might just be the same 50 or so people over and over again.

Modifié par Mbednar, 19 mars 2012 - 09:09 .

[VlPER007]

I am a firm believer in the "Indoctrination Theory". It would allow a seamless transition from what is presently representing the ending to what could be added later as "The Truth". Not only that, but it would turn what was once one of the worst endings created into one of sheer brilliance. For my suggestion, I will begin at the part where Shepard is charging toward the beam and then blacks out.

When he hears everyone has been killed and there are no survivors, this is just part of the hallucination his mind is fabricating as indoctrination is setting in. In reality, most the men were cut down by Harbinger's beam. Perhaps even a piece of building collapses, temporarily cutting him off from his squad and any reinforcements. (Thus allowing a bit of time for his encounter with the "Catalyst" while they catch up)

So who while your team is climbing over the rubble trying to get to you and the transporter beam, you meet with the Catalyst as is currently shown. I will also stop after each choice at the point where he goes into the beam for real. Here is how the 3 choices will play out for the Indoctrination Theory.

Choice 1: You choose to destroy all synthetic life.

Result:  Shepard has broken free of Indoctrination. He wakes up to realize the whole thing was a figment of his imagination and that the Reapers were in fact attempting to indoctrinate him. At this point, his team clears the rubble to see him getting up from the floor. As you all rejoin together, Harbinger ceases fire to focus on a new larger threat. A small but strong collection of ships scream in. Cerberus insignia emblazoned on the side. They attack Harbinger. While that battle is going on, you fight another wave of Husks, Cannibals, Marauders, maybe even a Banshee or Brute.

Harbinger, overwhelmed, by the dwindling Cerberus fleet, retreats (for now) and is followed by the bulk of what's left of those ships. One Cerberus ship lands and T.I.M. along with more Cerberus Commandos step off. You have a conversation where you can once again try to convince him to fight with you instead of against you. If you have extremely high paragon points, you succeed and he shoots himself. (I imagine seeing that again will confuse him somewhat. lol) If not, you fight him and his men. During the fight, he retreats into the beam along with a couple of his commandos. If he shoots himself, like Saren before him, Harbinger takes over his body and still retreats into the beam.


Choice 2: You choose to control the Reapers.

Result: Shepard is still battling the Indoctrination affects, but his mind is losing ground fast. The scene plays out the same as the scene above with the exception that you have no chance to convince T.I.M. to join you as you are to far under their control to convince another they are also. His friends voices also seem to have a slightly echoing sound to it, when he first wakes up. Another sign his mind is failing. T.I.M.’s arrival puts him back into focus.


Choice 3: You choose Synthesis.

Result: Shepard has been successfully indoctrinated. (Or so the Reapers think) Like the first scene, he wakes up to realize the whole thing was a figment of his imagination, but this time he doesn't realize it was an attempt to Indoctrinate him. Instead he simply feels like it was another strange vision brought by being knocked one to many times in the head. At this point, his team clears the rubble to see him getting up from the floor. What Shepard sees though horrifies him. Instead of seeing his friends, he sees himself surrounded by Husks (Ashley/Kaiden, Jack, Miranda, Jacob, James, Anderson, maybe even EDI, + 2 random other soldiers as husks, I'll explain) a Marauder (Garris), and 2 Banshee's (Liara, Samara/Morinth), not sure what a reaper version of krogan would be (for Wrex and Grunt).... Meanwhile, Harbinger again ceases fire to focus on a new larger threat. A small but strong collection of ships screams in. Cerberus insignia emblazoned on the side. They attack Harbinger. Now back to Shepard.

As the group close in on him, the two random soldiers are closest, the hold out their hands to help the Commander up. Seeing only husks, this looks like a regular attack from husks. He opens fire (much to the shock of his team) killing the 2 men. They dive for cover and begin to defend themselves. Now during this whole battle, Shepard can hear the voices of his friends but only see Reaper pawns. They are pleading with him the whole time to stop. Finally Liara or Samara/Morinth hit him with a singularity or something that renders him immobile for a time. They approach him and talk him back to his senses. Finally the illusion of them being the enemy fades and he sees them for what they truly are....his friends and allies. I imagine an interchange of words would occur before the Cerberus portion mentioned above happens.


Conclusion: So now at this point. T.I.M. is either dead by your hand or his own, Harbinger has been driven back, and you are now free to enter the transporter beam......again. You do so with only 2 team mates, the rest staying behind to guard the beam. Moving at a normal pace you enter the same area as you did before. Instead of seeing Anderson at the control panel, you see T.I.M. As you close in, T.I.M. turns around revealing his eyes changing to bright yellow and you hear the "assuming direct control" quote from ME2. A small dialogue occurs after which a fight takes place with you and T.I.M. Perhaps as side enemies, keepers can come charging in from somewhere and attack as well. lol

T.I.M. is merely a distraction being used by Harbinger to buy him time to reach the Crucible in a last ditch effort to destroy it.  Depending on the amount of "War Assets" you have (explained below) this is what happens next....assuming you have enough for a victory ending in this case.  Shepard approaches the terminal and activates the weapon.  As shown in the video, the weapon actually needs time to warm up before igniting.  As it does so a shield immediately raises over the Crucible making it impervious to anything Harbinger can shoot at it.  Realizing he has failed, he turns to the citadel, and more specifically where Shepard is.  Determined to at least take Shepard with it, the final "Boss" fight ensues. 

To avoid technicalities, Shepard sees Harbinger coming and his team dawns full helmets if they aren't already wearing them.  A laser beam from Harbinger cuts through the building Shepard is in exposing him and his team to space.  Perhaps one final taunt in defiance from Harbinger is spoken saying something like this will still be your last day or whatever....something profound about guarenteeing you will die today. lol  The door to the platform you are on seals shut to prevent your retreat, and a battle similar to the ME2 boss battle begins.  Instead of just firing laser beams though, he also brings down a foot? to crush you.  Each time another section of the platform you are on disappears.  As you're running out of space, Harbinger prepares to fire a shot that will surely mean your end.  (CUE CUTSCENE) At the last moment, the rest of your ground team (or what's left based on your "War Assets") suddenly appears behind you walking through a recently made hole in the sealed door by one of them.  Having heard what was happening on over the comm, and having secured the ground area, they couldn't let you fight alone.  Although stunned as what was about to happen, they rush into the room weapons drawn.  Shepars yells, "Open fire with everything you got!"  The cutscene ends for a few moments to allow the player a last few seconds to unload every bullet, rocket, or power he/she has at their disposal.

The sudden barage of firepower stuns Harbinger enough so it doesn't fire.  Reeling from the sudden strike, Harbinger prepares to fire again.  (Cue next cutscene) But then, again before it can fire, fleet reinforcements arrive behind it, blowing whats left of him to pieces.  As Harbinger breaks up the Cruciple, now charged fires, destroying the rest of the Reapers.

As the final battle concludes, this is where your "War Assets" come into play.

Outcome 1 (Failure): If you didn't have enough, you hear Admiral Hackett over your comm. The voice is broken up and static filled. You can make out him yelling at you that they can't hold on any longer. You rush over to the control panel to initiate the weapon, but it's to late. You see Harbinger crash through Admiral Hackett's ship and fire on the Crucible. Meanwhile, you also here the rest of your team that you left on the planet cry out as they are overwhelmed by Reaper ground forces and all killed. And finally as you watch the Crucible along with what's left of the fleet be destroyed, you hear the foot steps of endless waves of Reaper ground forces marching up the hall. You fight them till you die.

Outcome 2 (Partial Victory): You hear Admiral Hackett over the comm. This time his voice is clear, but he is yelling that they don't have much time left. They are about to be overrun and won't be able to defend the Crucible much longer. You race to the control panel and fire the weapon! Killing the Reapers and winning the war. The amount of "War Assets" you attain in this scenario will determine how many of your squad survived the battle. If your total is just above the minimum required to attain the partial victory, after the Reapers are destroyed, you suddenly realize you have been mortally wounded. You die shortly after victory is attained in the arms of one of the squad mates you brought with you. In the case where Admiral Hacket dies, (see point system below) Harbinger crashes through his ship like in the fail scenario, killing him. However, Shepard activates the Crucible just seconds before Harbinger can close the distance and fire on the weapon.

Outcome 3 (Total Victory): In this rare case scenario, if you have achieved an insanely large amount of "War Assets", you gain the perfect ending. Total Victory. You hear Admiral Hacket over the comm. His voice is clear and relatively calm albeit firm. He says something like, "Shepard where are you? We're holding ok, but we can't hold indefinitely. Get a move on!" You approach the control panel, ignite the Crucible thus killing the Reapers and winning the war. You get to return to the rest of your friends and LI.

Example of point system:

Fail = 4,000 points or less
Shepard + 7 squad mates (including LI) + Admiral Hackett die + 4 wounded + severe fleet losses = 4,001-4,400 points
Shepard + 6 Squad mates (including LI) die + 4 wounded + severe fleet losses = 4,401-4,800 points
Shepard + 5 Squad mates (NOT including LI) die + 4 wounded + heavy fleet losses = 4,801-5,200 points
4 Squad mates (NOT including LI) die + 4 wounded + heavy fleet losses = 5,201-5,600 points
3 Squad mates (NOT including LI) die + 4 wounded + moderately heavy fleet losses = 5,601-6,000 points
2 Squad mates (NOT including LI) die + 4 wounded + moderately heavy fleet losses = 6,001-6,400 points
1 Squad mates (NOT including LI) die + 4 wounded + moderately heavy fleet losses = 6,401-6,800 points
Perfect Victory + moderate fleet losses = 6,801 points or more

Characters I would have present for choice before (actually) going up to the Citadel:

1. Anderson
2. Ashley / Kaiden
3. Liara
4. Tali
5. Wrex
6. Grunt
7. Garrus
8. Jack
9. Miranda
10. Samara / Morinth
11. Jacob
12. James
13. EDI

Now in the event that some of these characters are not available (due to maybe being killed in an earlier game), the death count should remain the same for whatever "War Asset" point total they have and the amount of wounded would be decreased. The characters that die, can either be chosen randomly (outside of the LI of course) or can be chosen based on how much interaction has occured between shepard an the characters (assuming some characters were not that engage in conversation with the player due to lack of interest). Should the latter option for choosing who dies be decided upon, I would have the closest characters to the player die first up to half the number required to die. the rest can be chosen randomly.I feel this would create a stronger sense of loss and a better feeling of what this war really cost, than simply killing off character the player didn't really care about first anyway. It would also create a stronger desire to want to do better and achieve a higher score.

As for the weapon itself. It could simply be as how the destroy option in the current ending shows it. The Reapers suddenly short circuit and fall to the ground dead. This destructive "signal" or "blast" is shot through the relays to destroy all the reapers galaxy wide, while leaving the relays and the citadel in tact.

So In short:

In the fail outcome, Shepard along with everyone else is destroyed. Cue up next cycle...
In middle outcome, Shepard and many of his team could die, but the reapers are destroyed and the galaxy as a whole is saved.
In the perfect ending, Shepard and all of his team survive, (though some will still be wounded) the reapers are destroyed and the galaxy is saved. Cue up party music and drinks all around at the nearest bar mentioned by one of the characters!

Modifié par VlPER007, 19 mars 2012 - 11:05 .

[Drunkninjapanda]

 Hi 
Just wanted to say the game was great, but the ending left me feeling like I should of just rushed through the game. 

None of my choices seemed to have an effect on the ending, my friend was completely opposit to me and it didn't make a difference. 
There is absolutely no way that you can say the endings were different, they were the same with different coulored beams. 
The star child ending was unsatisfying. The reapers were built up and I wanted to take them on, I sacrificed crew because I wanted a strong force for the end battle but all that happened was, joker and the crew who flew on a suicide mission with you in ME2, suddenly decide to run away. ????????

Why can't we fight harbinger or sacrifice the Normandy to kill harbinger? If you have to sacrifice yourself to save the galaxy why can't we do it in a heroic way? 

Or couldn't we be evil and follow the illusive man? Control the reapers and wip out all or selected species? 

Just give us a choice. For a series based on choices with consequences, it didn't seem there was a consequence!

[Docter_Sanchez32]

Can you make it so we can assign cover, sprint and interact with different bindings? Sometimes I wan't to run and get caught in cover, It's pretty annoying and I don't know why you guys changed it from ME1

[zingro]

Xenite wrote...

Taldek wrote...

Grasich wrote...

Just do everything this man suggests: www.youtube.com/watch

I would throw money at Bioware for this.

Holy crap.... HIRE THIS MAN!

He puts forth a good idea and it's financial cost would be minimal to complete.

The only thing I would change is Shepard goes through the beam, confronts the Illusive Man and then trys to activate the crucible only to find out it's been a decoy. They then go back down the beam and the game continues as he said to it's ending.

Bumping this, as Archengeia's idea covers all bases and deserves to be the no1 choice of ending.

[Scyldemort]

What I want, ALL I want, the one thing that would make all the difference in the world, is the ability to call the Catalyst starchild thing on his bull****. The ability, in that conversation, to tell him that he's wrong, that each of his proposed solutions are abominable. I want the ability to give him the finger.

Is there a possibility that some day synthetic life might arise and destroy organic life? Sure. Just like there's a possibility that some day organic life will destroy itself. Or some unforseen disaster will destroy the entire galaxy. And even if those possibilities are evaded, there's still the heat death of the universe to look forward to. Maybe it will be tomorrow, maybe the day after, maybe a trillion years from now, but some day, all life, biological and synthetic alike, will end. Everything has its time, and everything dies. Even the universe. The point isn't that some day people might make poor decisions that lead to their destruction. The point is that part of being free is the freedom to make those mistakes. People make mistakes. Being synthetic is unlikely to change that. If differences in perspective can exist, then the possibility of disagreement exists, and from this flows every opportunity for cruelty, kindness, hatred, love, hubris, and compassion. The Reapers say they're doing this 'for our own good.' They are wrong. They're doing this because they're arrogant, misguided, and shortsighted. They have fallen inside the prison of a single idea, and that is the smallest, meanest prison in all the universe: theirs is a tiny, cloistered eternity beginning and ending in fallacy, and drenched in the blood of the innocent and the guilty alike.

I want the ability to tell him that the galaxy doesn't need him, that his entire grand plan of pruning civilizations was wrong from the start and all that death was for NOTHING. That we can find our own way between order and chaos, and to get the hell out of our galaxy.

And if he responded with completely ignoring the argument and demanding that I make my choice, I want to be able to tell him to go to hell. Even Shepard dying in a futile effort to find another way, condemning the whole galaxy to repeat the cycle again, would be preferable to the three non-choices given.

Modifié par Scyldemort, 19 mars 2012 - 10:08 .

[CaptCleanoff]

My thoughts on the ending and what could/should have been. This is probably exactly the same as everyone else’s feelings on this, but I wanted to have my say as a paying customer who ultimately feels ripped off by the
cheapening of the story at the end of this trilogy an lack of other potential gameplay elements which could have made for an even better game. This going to be a TL;DR for most but whatever. Did the endings leave
me feeling completely unfulfilled and even a little depressed? Yes. I feel as though all the player choices, all the special moments of friendship, love and camaraderie don't mean a thing. Now, whether this has been through design or not, clearly this is not the way to end such a loved story and universe. I just spent all those hours to
end it all with three colour coded choices that are all pretty much the same? Seriously, I've never read or played through a worse conclusion in all my 31 years. The ending was utterly garbage and I've never been so disappointed in a Bioware game, ever.

Of all the choices and decisions you make as a player throughout the whole trilogy, from your interpersonal relationships aboard the Normandy to the galaxy wide political manoeuvring that Shepard has to contend with in order to complete his/her missions/goals, you end it with three choices that are completely uncharacteristic of Shepard. The ending of such a broad and all-encompassing story should spell out clearly the choices
the player made in their journey, this, for whatever reason that Bioware has come up with is not the case for the Mass Effect trilogy.

Before I go much further I will state that I have only played through once. A mostly paragon Shepard (98% I'd say) with a final EMS of 6950(?) (more than likely because some missions appear to be bugged or timed out) and
100% galactic readiness from multiplayer.

My ending was the Destroy choice, which was the only real choice a paragon Shepard could make. The problem I have with the endings is that, not only are they all morally ambiguous it's that after all the choices made available in the trilogy overall, it comes down to a trilogy of indistinct and unremarkable conclusions which all have the same devastating effects on the entire galaxy.

• I Destroy the Reapers like my Shepard had set out to do from the get go.
  
  
• I also in turn destroyed the entire Geth race and all other synthetic/artificial life, such as EDI and other AI/VI through out the galaxy.
  
• I also stranded the entire Turian, Quarian, Asari and a handful of other races fleets above Earth, leaving hundreds, thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of aliens all but trapped in the Sol System both on or
  above Earth, including the Krogans, Batarians, Rachni(?), Salarians, Drell, Vorcha, Volus and more. This is a recipe for disaster. Not too mention lack of resources, food, medicines etc.
  
• Blew up the Citadel killing millions of people, unless the Reapers had already done away with them all which seems to not be the case; considering the traffic moving about on the Ward arms below you in the final scenes on the Citadel. The massive chunks of debris now falling to Earth will cause even more destruction to the planet. What happened to the Citadel Defence Force? What happened to the Militia? Are these EMS points completely useless? Yep.
  
• Destroyed the entire Mass Relay system, stranding countless races in the process, destroying galactic trade and commerce and cutting off hundreds of worlds from vital supply chains which they require for survival.
  That is of course dependant on how the following point plays out in the end.
  
• In addition, the chain reaction detonation of the Mass Relay system would have brought about the same destructive potential in ME2:Arrival. 300000 Batarians died as a result of the destruction of that Relay not to
  mention the entire planet they were on being vaporised. Would this not have occurred as each relay exploded near their respective planetary systems? Goodbye every living thing in the galaxy anyway. Shepard becomes the sole cause of the destruction of all life in the entire Milky Way galaxy. This is a perfect example of just one of
  the massive plot holes in the final chapter of the series.

This is NOT a choice my Shepard would have made, none of the choices make ANY sense to my Shepard. The price for each decision was too high, I in turn became no better than the Reapers by committing mass genocide of a sentient, free thinking synthetic species that my Shepard, through his conversations and actions with Legion, had come to respect and admire and also brought about the inevitable demise of countless other races
that required the Mass Relays for survival.

My Shepard would not have made such a colossal galaxy wide decision dooming all races to inevitable extinction. He would have given the “God Child” the middle finger, told it where to go and ordered the fleets “ace in the hole” (see below) to enter the fray and start blowing away the Reaper armada.

How would I have changed things during the story? More choice is the simple definitive
answer. How I went about this could include the following:

• I would not have designed the story to pin everything on the hopes and dreams of some ancient weapon design which from the very beginning of Mass Effect 3 was a complete and utter unknown. From a military perspective, putting all your eggs in one basket is a doctrine doomed to failure.
  
• A choice of what weapon design is used would have been a better choice IMO. Build a massive conventional weapon based on already known tech like a Thanix Cannon or something rivalling or surpassing the destructive
  kinetic energy of the Reapers main weapon integrating the same tech as the Normandy like Silaris Armour and Cyclonic Barrier Technology shielding to make them stronger. This depends on the recruitment of specialists (scientists) throughout the game and finding enough resources to carry out such a massive undertaking. However, building a larger weapon based on current tech is a lengthier and more dangerous proposition as your scientists need to design the weapon from scratch. The Crucible is already designed thus reducing it's overall build time. If you don't have a massive final EMS score, the huge weapon can be effectively swarmed and destroyed by the Reapers without a massive fleet shielding it. This goes for both the Crucible and your conventional weapon design. The massive conventional weapon is effectively the galactic fleets ace in the
  hole.
  
• This decision puts all your Effective Military Strength to the fore front and allows your fleets to engage the Reapers on an equal or advantageous footing in a conventional head to head battle. Shepard can disregard
  everything that occurs on the Citadel and tell the “God Child/Harbinger” etc to “F*** off”. This adds a fourth choice,
  actually making the final EMS mean something substantive.
  
  
• It is obvious that TIM is indoctrinated, however this is not apparent in the early part of the game to Shepard. Knowing this or not, Shepard can use misinformation through Liara/Shadow Broker (a huge and distinct Intelligence advantage) to gain the upper hand. Liara/Shadow Brokers use in the game is abysmal. You should be able to plant true or false information throughout the Shadow Brokers agents, gaining the upper hand over Cerberus/TIM/Indoctrinated Forces.
  
  This comes at the cost of a finite amount of Shadow Broker agents which can be rescued throughout the galaxy map using the already available “radar/ping” system available. The more agents you have, the better kept your
  secret weapon is. Though gaining intelligence on your enemies or planting misinformation can come at great expense in the loss of overall Agents/Wet Teams. If your super weapon is not well protected and your intelligence units are not successful in covering up it's existence, the Reapers/Cerberus can attack and destroy it.
  
• More behind the scenes anti Cerberus operations using Shadow Broker Wet Teams and Alliance Special Operations Units that lessons TIMs overall ability to out manoeuvre Alliance operations. A much broader Alliance/Cerberus battle which has a greater impact on the story.
  
• Greater strategic use of your war assets. While speaking to Admiral Hackett via QEC, you gain greater information about the overall force disposition, deployments and status of war assets including your progress in the Galaxy at War multiplayer portion of the game. The higher the readiness percentage, the greater your strategic choices. A mini game, akin to Risk would have been a pretty cool addition to the game I think. Moving about fleets and risking them to take or hold positions at the cost of your EMS.
  
• Re-write or add additional ending choices based on EMS. MAKE EMS MATTER in a far more obvious way than it does currently. It has basically zero effect in it's current state.
  
• Surviving squad mate/character/race ending dialogue, detailing their lives/progress etc after the battle and into the future.
  
• Removal of stupid Normandy (escape?) scene after relay destruction? WTF? Joker would not leave Shepard or the fleet behind.
  
• Add alternative/remove Relay destruction in base game.
  
• Add alternative to Geth/synthetic life destruction in base game.
  
• Keep key story elements in the game (obviously) but add further story/functionality to the base game base upon exhaustive study of fan reaction/criticism.
  
• Embrace “Indoctrination Theory” and add it's possibilities to the game ending.
  
• To summarise in the simplest form. Everything after the charge to the beam up point needs to be reconsidered.

I have more ideas, but at this point I don't have the time and it is largely a futile effort considering Bioware will not implement anything on this scale for the betterment of the game and/or it's longevity. What does all this mean
in the finale? More choice dependant on your ability to create alliances, gain intelligence, resources and war assets (more infantry, fleets and supplies). Better end game choices reflecting the amount of EMS the player has gathered, the battle against Cerberus etc. This all increases number of end game variables adding to the list of potential ending possibilities. The above is probably all possible with DLC, but an ending re-write needs to be made available for free.

If Bioware was to possibly continue the Mass Effect universe it needs to rethink it's end game decisions entirely. As it is, there is no possible way there could ever be a future for the Mass Effect universe/franchise and going back in time to a different “cycle” would not cut it. Relay destruction is one of the biggest issues I have with the current ending and it's not good enough. This is a single play through game for me simply due to the abhorrent ending, it is simply not worth another playthrough unless some really hefty and amazing DLC is introduced to expand upon the great base game that is already available.

I've probably repeated myself a few times throughout, that's what I get for doing the vacuuming and lawn mowing while writing something so long winded.

Bioware, for the love of god, please, rethink the conclusion to this story. The beginning and middle is great,fantastic even, but the final moments are just a joke and a cruel one at that. It deserves far better than it has gotten.

Modifié par CaptCleanoff, 19 mars 2012 - 09:44 .

[Alidaen]

I'm asking more OPTIONS, options to change events in some way and not have the continuous feeling of losing everything I have fought for ME1 and ME2 on. Seriously, I'm afraid to play because every time I do I have to swallow a bitter scene to me.

And I speak in particular the case of romance with Thane, a very interesting character who could have given a lot of play and that has been neglected too. I do not understand because during the ME2, ME3 even, there were many hopes to achieve a cure (up to Facebook if appealed to the players!) For absolutely nothing, and not only that, do not understand how after losing "love of his life "(I put in quotes because I doubt he was) Shepard acts as if nothing had happened and no member of the group remembers him. It is very sad to see the little touch that has been taken with certain characters and their fans. So my special request is to add new options for romances, especially those most affected such as the case of Thane or Jacob.

And please, Thane cure would be perfect. Not only for players who choose their romance, but also for those who appreciated the drell and I would have liked to do something to help. 

PD: Sorry for my Goggle's English  (but Spanish girls also love Thane )

[Archonsg]

I won't go into too much about plot holes, since most have been covered but I do want to at the very least try to dissuade those who still think that the current ending cut scenes are "okay and nothing wrong with it" and especially what that ending means as is.

I do admit that I am just an amateur hobbyist who love astronomy and the science behind how this galaxy and our own earth was made, so if someone with a better understanding of the physics of explosives (what I do know is from my time in the army blowing stuff up), energy transfer and wave propagation / dissipation in space, I am happy to hear from you and be corrected. 

On Exploding Relays.

OKies guys, people keep going "this is Not Arrival... it wasn't hit by an asteroid, it got hit by a signal beam, so its explosion is not the same!

I agree, No, it is not but not in the way those of you who think this would be a result of a "controlled" lesser explosion would think.

Lets all just agree that we ALL do see the Relays explode. 

Whatch the video again :
youtu.be/liQV1N7jXis

Citadel fires signal, signal hits relay, relays charges to critial sends signal along then BLOWS up.

Note that Relays are superstructres that can withstand a Super Nova without taking any damage at all.
Refer to your Codex ; Secondary : Ilos : Mu Relay

All a Super Nova did to it while vaporising the system it was in and creating the nebulae that hides the Mu Relay was to push the Relay out of position while not doing a single dent to it. (You guys USED it for crying out loud)

So to recap, the Relays in ME3 was NOT hit by a big planetoid (this makes it easier to destroy a Relay presumeably since now we have a huge butt load of mass and momentum of said mass added into the equation ... but we are talking about ME3)  which means the RELAYS exploded from kinetic / momentum force or energy alone which means that force had to had more velocity and momentum to damage a structure then if it was mass AND veloctiy.

If you want to do the math, here's a link

http://www.stardestr...Explosives.html 

In short and in lay man's terms,  a Relay can take an energy shockwave hit of Super Nova scale and not be structurely damaged.  
Relays are tough SOBs.

A structural explosion happens when enough kinetic / momentum force is applied to compromise said structure.
Big or Small Kaboooms, kabooms must be powerful enough to rip things to shreds.

Aka, A soda can will explode if you apply xxx ammount of pressure.  Does not matter if you want a big or small explosion you need xxx ammount of pressure to make a soda can explode. 

Thus that EXPLODING relay you saw = ONE BIG ASS KABOOM!

Logic would dictate that if structure is not damaged by Super Nova Scale energy, energy needed to not just bend but blow apart said structure = many orders of magnitude. 
REALLY REALLY big AND powerful KABOOM!

Now to understand just how powerful a Super Nova is
 http://www.nature.co...s/263398a0.html 

And just how large one can get :
http://apod.nasa.gov...d/ap030609.html 
 
NGC 2736 (Pencil Nebula)  is part of the Vela Super Nova

http://apod.nasa.gov...d/ap960612.html 

that happened roughly 11,000 years ago. Has a shell that is roughly 230 light years across and is still expanding at about 500,000 km/h. 11,000 years after initial event. (time, disspation, debris and space gas has slowed it down somewhat)

Now back to Mass Effect 3

Essentitally a Super Nova as close to as 20-25 light years could take out half of Earth's ozone layer. 

Closer then 10 light years a good portion of atmosphere should be blown away, earth's magnectic feilds fracked up, climate goes to hell literally, most living things die.

Closer then 1 light years .... vaporization is very likely that or earth and everything in the path of the discharge become galacitc kitty litter, pulverrised into rock and dust.

The Charon Mass relay is 4 light hours away. 

Needless to say ANY system with an Exploding Mass Relay = Toast.
Any cluster with a Mass Relay = fracked up

Basically that ending we saw was producers who just wanted big fracking explosions.
Never mind the science behind it. 
Ignoring their own  "Issac Newton is the deadliest SOB in space" line (physics DO matter in Mass Effect) 
Threw logic and common sense out the window just to have a "cool looking cut scene"
Lastly exploding relays even if we take the final
cut scene at face value still has enough energy to rip apart vessels in space
like it did the Normandy. Which is another "looks cool" but badly
thought out "action first, logic and science behind construction of a ship
(we can use current day Aerospace design rules as a guideline) gets thrown out the window.

Logic and the only conclusion that any shockwave that can flex and rip engines off a
lateral mount = severe hull integrity compromise = the fuselage should not,
could not stay in one piece. 

The same goes to ANY vessel around earth space.
That means that whole armada that even if you want to ignore the Super Nova or greater scale energy discharge needed just to compromise a Relay and blow it up, still gets rip to shreds by the the current ending's own shockwave. 

I call BS on this. 
You can't have the Relays or the Citadel explode, EVER.

Bioware. Redo your SCIENCE Fiction (so ya, its fiction, you have leeway to do stuff ...just not go so deep into space fantasy we might as well have Space Elves) master piece and redo that craptastic ending.


People supporting the "indoctrination" theory.

If we have to accept the current ending as is. This would be a way out but that means we have to have a an option for Shepard to say after given the three choices  " My God, I am being indoctrinated!"  when Shepard realise that all three choices reflect really JUST ONE THING, that Shepard give up his free will and accept whatever the indoctrination babble is telling him.

If he accepts ANY of those three choices, its over. He gave in and is indoctrinated. 

Problems I see with the indoctrination theory is that if we go along with this, Shepard is now compromised. NO MATTER what he does or realise and every action thereafter is questionable, even going to say that all his actions going as far back as Thessia is questionable. While this WILL solve the issue in the short term with the really craptastic ending, it does not solve future problems with players knowing that Shepard's actions are overshadowed by indoctrination and will again color one's playthough or willingness to replay ME3 either stand alone or with further DLC purchases.  

NO ONE WANTS to replay tragedies, at least not when you are as emotionally invested in a character as Shepard.

Those who do. 
You need help. 

Bioware would STILL have to re-do London as now, Shepard still needs to gather his forces and fight the real fight.

Instead. I suggest a complete rewrite. 
Failing that, make the current ending just ONE of the possible endings, and branch other endings out. 


Choices, Closure and the Epilogue

By far the biggest let down would be the lack of the above. I honestly think that had Bioware gave players all three, even the illogical ending would not have stung so much. Hell, I'll probably ignore everything I know about physics and happily put it all to "space magic" AND NOT BE this angry had I been given a choice, had MY choices over the past 3 games be made relevant and counted for something and lastly an epilouge (preferably epic in scale) of sorts made available to the player and say to the player, "This is what you did over the course of 5 years, playing our game and supporting it, thank you."

Instead we go the "A,B,C choice ending that was said that Mass Effect would NEVER have.

All my game saves, which includes

1) Paragon Shepard Male, Romanced Ashley / Liara/ Miranda / Tali / Jack, stayed true 
2) Paragon Shepard Male, Romanced Ashley / Liara / Miranda / Tali / Jack , played the field 
3) Renegade Shepard Male ..... ect.
3) Paragade / and Renegon (mix of high Paragon / Renegade slanting towards one end or the other)

24 of them (including Femsheps) to be exact.

Needless to say NONE I now feel compelled to play, or replay with or without any future DLCs you might want to sell. Why would I since NONE of my choices mattered?

What is even sadder is that I have to come up with something, anything to "replay" at least in my own mind so that I could find some closure instead of the ending we got. 
I have already posted this before on the other thread but will post here and hope it gives those who haven't seen it, see an ending complete with all their favorite characters voices imagined in their heads :

(Version 1.01c Paragon Shepard Dies)

*note : Most people Should get this ending. I do have a “Paragon Shepard Lives” ending scenario floating up in my noggin but that will be done some other time.

Also my version of events scraps everything right after the combined Galactic fleet enters Earth space, assumes the player has completed all side quests and has at least 3300 EMS. 
Why only 3300? 
I feel that “forcing” players to play Multi-player just to get the “best” possible ending is rubbish. Higher EMS just skews a slightly different cut scene of your ground troops.Higher EMS = more varied troops based on which races you have recruited to the cause. 

The trigger on what causes Shepard to  live or die, his personal romances. Idealy he should have stayed true over at least 2 games to his Love Interest AND have that love interest with him at the end fight. It would be awesome if Bioware allowed for this since I have always thought that Shepard's "romances" while wonderful, still are just "one night things" that in the greater scheme of things don't mean much more then fan service (and very much appreciated fan service it is!! )  Making his romance the key to his / or her living or dying. That would be awesome.

This ending also assumes you have saved every companion in ME2 (just mentally edit them out if you got yourskilled) and Assumes that certain paths are followed in ME3. Again you can mentally edit those characters out of the cut scenes if yours are absent or dead. 

Liara assumed to be LI and Shepard to be male. (just switch him for her if your Shepard is female) Also this is an entire “re-write” of events in London. 
So no, I don’t follow the Shepard was indoctrinated” school of thought. Sorry shep-zombie fans. 
And no Star Child crap either. Sorry Bioware. 

Scenario:  
Cut Scene 

Combined Galactic ground forces consisting of all the forces and assets Shepard has gathered. Krogan on Keiosaur mounts charging, Geth and Quarian engineers setting up hack proof auto turrets, mercs fighting dirty in hand to hand, pistol shot to the face combat, Turian and Human infantry and armor supported by Asari commandoes led by Samara, Grissom Academy (Jack!) Biotics and Miradanda and ex-cerberus biotics led by Aresh, form a linked shield system and together they all carve a path and finally take down the Guardian at the Conduit. 

Shepard and team go in, and it’s a race find the master control and open the Citadel Arms so that that Crucible can dock. 
Shepard and team fights way to Citadel central command room which EDI helps to pin point. Within the Citadel itself Shepard faces a combined force of indoctrinated Cerberus forces and reaper forces.  

Midpoint : 
Cut Scene.

Harbinger’s holo appears and in the course of talking to it. Player learns that the Citadel is not only a huge mass relay, it is also the Reaper’s command and control centre from which the reapers direct their systematic “cycles” and that means it’s also one big galactic broadcasting device and that some ancient race finally figured this out and came up with the Crucible which is essentially one big “signal booster” .  

This old race figured out that you can send a kill switch from the Citadel but such a signal would only effects its local space for the kill switch to work, the signal needs to be sent simultaneously across the galaxy using the Mass Relays as piggy back signal towers.

Shepard also learns that the Reapers were once AI meant to protect a race, created at a time when there was another war of organics and Synthetics. 
The AI’s primary directive was to Protect and dictate the race’s war efforts. In the course of time the AI decided that to win the war against Synthetics, organics had to become Synthetics themselves and thus the Reapers and Cycles came about. 

Harbinger shows nothing but disdain for Shepard, for all organics. It demands that Shepard submit as it is the only way to salvation that it is the only logical outcome.

Shepard tells it to go to hell. 

Harbinger then tells Shepard that Organic life in this Cycle had become too much of a problem, that order was disrupted when Sovereign was destroyed and later the planned entry point in Batarian space blocked. 
That it has decided that the best solution for the current situation now, is for the galaxy to reboot itself and life and the Cycle can start anew.

Shepard is confused by what it meant till Admiral Hackett communicates that reports are coming in that EVERY Mass Relay is powering up, gathering Charge at a rate that make each relay go critical and cause Ultra Super Novas in every system that holds a Mass Relay.
Everyone is shocked and horrified by the implications.

Harbinger gloats that order will be restored and the Cycle can start anew again. 

Shepard Speech.
Chooses final Squad members and assigns the rest to rear guard to cover his back and come up behind when they can.

Player fights to last checkpoint.

Meets Illusive man who holds the final key to unlocking the Citadel. Illusive man tries takes control of Shepard’s implants. 
Illusive Man Makes Shepard shoots both squad members and they are out of combat (not dead) 
If Love interest is in squad however, Shepard finds strength to resist after he shoots the first squad member and the illusive man tries to make Shepard shoot his LI. (Love has to count for something ya?) 

Boss Fight. 
One on One Shepard vs Illusive man or two vs one if Shepard is with LI 
Shepard wins, Illusive Man slumps to the ground.

Cut Scene. 

Harbinger arrives too late at the Conduit but starts blasting at ground troops. (poor EMS = more die, not just nameless troops but Jack, Grunt, Wrex and any other non-squad companions from previous games at the scene, we will however assume high EMS for this cutscene) 

More Reaper Destroyers land with Harbinger and starts blasting as well. 
Jack plays mother hen and orders Asari commandoes around to help bolster the linked shields so that ground forces can hold ground. She refuses to leave but realise her shields cannot withstand a direct hit from a Reaper canon. Reluctantly leaves when Miranda tells her, “Shepard will find a way, he always does.”

Meanwhile on the Citadel, Shepard with EDI’s help shuts down the Relay Nova sequence and finds the kill switch.Harbinger’s Avatar appears one last time, but this time it shows fear. It knows death is imminent and it doesn’t want to die. Harbinger admits that perhaps its assessment is wrong and gives Shepard a choice, instead of killing every reaper, Shackle them. 
Each Reaper would then beHumanity’s tool and weapon against anything or anyone, organic or synthetic. Through them, Humanity would achieve power unimaginable and through humanity’s control of the reapers, order be imposed on all organic life. (Renegade Choice of course)  

Shepard refuses. 
Takes the Paragon path and triggers the kill switch. 

THE CITADEL DOES NOT BLOW UP, BREAK APART OR GETS DESTROYED.

The signal goes off and Every Reaper in Earth Space flatlines, including Harbinger. Now that the Earth space is safe and cleared of Reapers, the Crucible goes through its docking sequence shedding its protective armor anddocks. (I ALWAYS hated that part in the original Ending. WHAT Military Genius decides to try and dock a “soft” target in the middle of a fire fight while your “air space” isn’t clear of bogies and hostiles? You still have REAERS around the Citadel firing Reaper beams left and right and you want to advertise “hey guys over here …SHOOT ME!!!”) 

(Final moments / epilouges)

Garrus : “So Shepard, do the honours?”

Shepard: “I thought you’d do it, I mean, isn’t that why you calibrate stuff so much?”

Garrus : “The guns. Are. On. The. Normandy Shepard.” ”But now that you mentioned it, why not? I could never resist pushing big red buttons... Uhhh There is a big red button right?” 

EDI. : “No Garrus. Just your standard VI overlay” 

Garrus : “Pity. Well Palaven isn’t free of Reapers yet while we stand here talking.” *reaches up and touches controls*

Signal beam goes out to the Charon Relay, Relay pulses then shoots out beam to other Relays.

”RELAYS ARE NOT DESTROYED.*

Pretty colour signal rings Galactic map display depicting each relay receiving and sending the kill switch out. Reapers across the Galaxy flatlines. Cheers from groundtroops in Palaven, Asari on Thessia, everywhere, troops emerge bloodied but not beaten. 


*Everyone in room cheers*
Ashley : “We did it! We finally did it! Its all because of you Shepard, I am sorry I doubted ….”

*Rapid auto gun fire. Shepard’s Shields flare then in slow motion, HEAD SHOT*

(1) IF Shepard has been true to his LI and did not go dipping into the pond so to speak, depending on LI they'd see TIM, and will do a number of things, taking the hit (NOT FATALLY but unknown to the player at the time) example. Liara sees TIM, cast Singularity but the bullets fired richochets and hits her / Tali sabotages his gun but mananges to get ONE shot off at her, Ashley simply stands in the line of fire and pushes Shepard away ... different things from different LIs  - - - back to the show!


Liara : “Goddess! Noooooooo…”

*everyone turns to see a shakily Illusive man standing with a modified machine pistol in hand .. Everyone unloads their weapons into Illusive man. All except Liara who is cradling Shepard and crying. 

*Fade to black.*
*scene opens 5 years later. We see a small Asari child playing in the grass on Thessia laughing and giggling with another Asari child. She turns when she hears someone approaches and it is Liara and Matriarch Aethyta.  One of the girls run up to Liara.* 

Child : “Mother, Aria here says that everyone is nice to me only because my father is famous. Why do you never talk of him? 

Liara : “Oh Hannah, *breathes in deeply* your father was the most important man in the galaxy. He is why we still have Thessia, our home.”

Hannah : “Aria says he’s human. Aria’s mother says humans are at best centuary flings. I don’t understand….*looks up and sees Liara in tears* I am sorry mommy. I didn’t mean to make you cry. *stays silent for a few seconds* What was he like, my father?” 

Liara : “He was …he was….*breaks down and cries*

Aethyta : “ He was  a man. Had a quad on him for sure but he had heart, he….."

*scene cuts to Garrus at SPECTRE Academy*

Garrus : “ … was not just a SPECTRE, he was THE SPECTRE. I was there when he took down Saren, when at the time we Turians still thought all humans were only good as canon fodder."

Spectre trainee: “But sir, surely he was JUST a human....”

Garrus : "Son, on Rannoch, Shepard played tag with a reaper, on foot. He won. *touches side of his face* You see this, got this from a Gunship’s rocket in Omega. Shepard took it down, with small arms and saved my life. No, I learned from the best and that was Shepard.  I learned that no matter how good you are, nothing is better than a true friend guarding your back and Shepard was …” 

*scene cuts to Wrex and Grunt*

Wrex : “….an Honorary Krogan because I made him so! Arrrhharrhahhaaa!”

Grunt : “Bah, I knew that before you. You were there, he fought beside me on my Rites of Passage and at the time he said he was “my krant” *does finger air quotes* …huh. When that Thresher Maw popped up and he didn’t flinch, just stared down that big ass rifle of his and shot, I knew then, that he’s no one’s Krant. That I was lucky to be in his.”

Krogan : “Clan Utnev says The Shepard is human and they spit on humans.” 

Wrex Grunt : “SHEPARD IS URDNOT! Shepard is why our women are whole again! 

Grunt : "WHO IS SHEPARD?!!"

Krogans :" URDNOT!!"

Wrex : "WHAT IS SHEPARD?!"

Krogans : " KROGAN!"

Grunt : "AND IF THEY SPIT ON SHEPARD THEY SPIT ON ...."

Krogans : "UDNOT!! SHEPARD IS ...."

Scene cuts to Samara on Thessia now cheif caretaker of the Ardat Yakshi monastary

Samara : " ......... honor personified."

Falere : "Is that why you left us, and followed him, his honor?"

Samara : "He helped me kill Morinth..."

Falare : " So he murdered my sister too .." *bitter*

Samara : " Your sister would have murdered him."

Falare : " So how did it feel, to have the great commander Shepard do your work for you?"

Samara : " Shame, that is why I almost....why I wanted it all to end. I used him Falare. In the end I even when I tracked Morinth down, deep down in my heart I did not want to kill her, I ....knew that if Shepard was there. I would have to do what I swore to do."

Falare : "Is that why you almost ...."

Samara : " And Shepard stopped me. He still believed Falare, that I had honor."

Falare : " I ....I guess I misunderstood, Shepard is ..."


*scene cuts to Tali. ALL Qurians have their helmets off*


Tali : “ ….the most compassionate man I know.” 

Quarian girl : "What is it like travelling with the humans? With Shepard?

Tali: “Trying. Often you just want to shoot them. *she grins* sometimes I don’t get them but when I see Shepard I see the best humanity has to offer. Let me tell you of a story about a Quarian named Lia’Vael nar Ulnay a young quarian girl on her pilgrimage. She went to the citadel but before long, her money was stolen, she was beaten and people spat on her. All because she was Quarian. We met her while a Csec officer and a Volus had her held for questioning and NO ONE wanted to help. Shepard did. He cared. He didn’t see us as Quarians or aliens but as people. As someone of worth and Lia was someone worth helping. I asked him afterwards, why did he helped. He just said “Its what I do.” *Tali falls silent for a bit, eyes with a far away look, wishful*

Quarian girl : “Was he dreamy? *giggles* 

Tali : *flushed* “Uhhh.... what? …Shepard was …” 

*scene cuts to Aethyta*

Aethyta : “…. Many things to many people. But most of all he was hope. He never stopped trying. They took away his ship, they took away his command they took everything that he was but they could not take away his spirit. Your mother loves him very much because of that spirit. Hell, if she had not already claimed him, I would have been tempted to myself! Bet I can teach him a thing or two…” 

Liara : “Aethyta!”

*Hannah climbs into Liara’s lap*

Hannah : “He sounds wonderful. I wish he was here.”

Liara : *wraps arms around Hannah and hugs her tightly* “We all do, little dove, we all do.”

*FADE TO BLACK*

END CREDIT ROLL.

(Only did those few companions, would have,  Jack, Miranda, everyone who is still alive retelling Shepard as they saw him..... Different "memories if Shepard was Renegade and of course a VERY diffent one if Shepard Lives)

But to me, it would have been epic even if my Shepard died ( I'd play to keep him alive though) and we have all the people he touched speak of him and thier memories of him? What better end can you think of?


Anyways. If you have been reading this far.
Thank you.

Modifié par Archonsg, 19 mars 2012 - 10:52 .

[shadowxwolf13]

Imagine if they did this.

Added miniclips of your choices and war readiness affecting certain parts of the fight on Earth. (ME2 style)

Added a scene where you were woken up on radio by your squad mates after taking Harbinger's hit who then proceed to give you fire support along with the Normandy for you to limp to the Conduit.
(Squad dies based on decisions and war readiness)

Added more Harbinger involvement with the Illusive Man's final scene. Either you convince the Illusive Man to kill himself, prove to the Illusive Man that he is indoctrinated (Harbinger takes him over to shoot you, either Anderson dies for you or Renegade Interrupt), fail to convince the Illusive Man, who then wants you to watch him win (Harbinger takes him over to shoot you yet again), or just being able to do nothing as the Illusive Man / Harbinger kills you.
(4 Outcomes based on decisions and how much the Illusive Man has been exposed to Reaper Tech (Destroying/Keeping Collector Base))

Cut out the GhostlyStarPlotHoleChild and the Normandy Crash scene.

Shepard and Anderson enjoyed their moments as the Crucible fired. Mass relays go dark and inert.
(Damage to the Citadel / Earth / Fleet / Normandy varies based off war readiness)

[Mara281]

I haven't read through all of the suggestions, but I thought I'd put in my two cents I tried to provide some positive feedback as well as suggestions.

Conversations: The Zaeed/Kasumi like mini conversations were fantastic between my crew members. I loved hearing them actually interact withone another. That said, I want to see my crew mates' face when I talk to them. It's more personal that way and much more fulfilling. I would love to see more face to face conversations with our crew members. At least in later DLC I would make sure you get to talk to people and respond instead of just listening and seeing the back of their heads. Also I really miss the neutral/middle responses. I'd like to see those come back.

Mission Journal: I like how it's more condensed and streamlined. However, it at the very least needs to provide updates, like whether or not you found a certain artifact. It would be even better if the mission journal entries weren't so vague. Who am I taking this stuff to again?

Missions: The scanning was much better in this game, not nearly as tedious at ME2. I also liked how N7 missions held an extra side mission item to turn in as well as getting the asset for doing the mission itself. But, I do wish there were more N7 like missions where you land and actually do stuff, instead of scanning. I also would have liked to visit metropolitan areas other than the citadel. What about Illium? And while Omega is taken over right now, I'm sure there are other cities in the galaxy that we could have visited. It would have been great to go to another city and do missions to help the war effort there like helping secure a supply line or freeing up some troops that got cut off by reaper forces.

Multiplayer and EMS: The multiplayer is fun on its own and is a great perk to those who like to play it. But BW really should have kept it out of the single player campaign. As is, it feels like single players are punished for not playing multiplayer since we can't get enough war assets to give us the 'deep breath' ending and that multiplayers are even punished if they aren't playing constantly. Since fixing the EMS system would probably be too complicated, I would just like BW to include more war assets for the single player game or make the missions give you more assets than they do now so that it can be completed in its full without having to touch MP. BW already promised us that this would be the case, we wouldn't have to touch MP. They need to make it actually happen now.

Romances: The squad member romances really got the royal treatment in this. In fact the biggest complaint I have about their romances is that I simply want more That said, especially for FemShep, the other ME2 relationships were very poorly treated. Plus Vega gave us an easy opportunity for another LI that we couldn't follow through with. With BW being so good about making things more equal for female players in their past few games, it really hurt and surprised me that ME3 dropped the ball in this department for the ladies, giving us much fewer options than male shep. Especially after you marketed to us with FemShep. A romance DLC option would be great, one where each of the romances makes sure to get a date and love scene, and James is romancable. Jacobmancers should be able to woo him back at which point the 'baby' arch didn't happen. Thane's romance would take place before his death and both Jacob and Thane romances would give the paramour achievement. I would be willing to pay for a DLC that fleshed out the romances all around and even gave the current squad member romances another date or simple sit down and chat scene, so long as the others got them too.

Endings: The end push was so climatic, so amazing! That last sit-down with Anderson felt like... this is finished.  But then the end was ruined because it didn't make any sense at all. No closure, no answered questions, and a heavy dose of hopelessness and disappointment for the galaxy. I'll refer to this as for why the endings made some of us even physically ill: http://www.themetaga...ml#comment-form 

I think the indoctrination theory going around is a great fix that allows the current endings to stay and then be built upon in DLC and by far the easiest route to take since everything after Shepard gets hit by Harbinger's beam feels like a dream anyway. I also think that providing us with other conversation options with the catalyst should be an alternative. We should be able to use our Charm/Intimidate to convince the catalyst that it's wrong and have it callback/destroy/deactivate the reapers himself seeing as they are 'his' solution or to allow us to 'wake up' from the indoctrination. And there should be even another choice where Shepard can simply refuse to accept the choices the catalyst gives us and allow us to fight the reapers conventionally. I believe options for a very good ending (Shepard and crew live) and a very bad ending (reapers win) would be needed in any new endings made. I also think war assets should play a bigger part in what you see in the ending. Cutscenes of seeing your previous crewmates holding the line or die trying would be wonderful additions that could possibly help the catalyst as it tries to indoctrinate you or to force you to pick one of the current ending 'solutions'. Much like you did in ME2 while we fought through the Collector base. Let us see those assets in action.

Epilogue: This is the final game of the trilogy, where it all ends and rebuilding the galaxy begins. I think crew, important characters, and species epilogues are deserved in this, something similar to what was at the end of DA and it's something quite feasible to do. We want to know how the galaxy ended up. If the geth and quarians really made peace. If the sabotage cure really failed and what happened to the krogan if it did. Are the rachni still peaceful? Did everyone in the citadel die or were they just trapped? Does Garrus return to Palaven to rebuild or does he become a Spectre finally? Will Tali get to build her home on Rannoch? We've followed ME for 5 years. We're invested. Let us know how we helped shaped the galaxy. Show us that the sacrifices to get here were worth it.

DLC: I am actually in the boat of those that like DLC. I love getting to do extra missions, having more story and interactions with my crew. It's better than a book or movie in that every time I play I could get something a bit different. I enjoyed Overlord, the Shadow Broker, and the Arrival DLCs and I'd love to see more like that for ME3. The great thing I see about fixing up these endings is the potential for more DLC after the galaxy is saved. I want to help Aria take back Omega. I want to fight the last remaining pockets of Cerberus. So many people love Mass Effect, I would expect BW to be milking it for all it's worth, not closing off possibilities for extra revenue. Adjusting the endings I think is a win-win situation for BW and I sincerely hope they do it. I'd certainly buy it.

Overall the game was amazing. The sacrifices some of our friends made, the heartache we felt making those tough decisions, this by far is one of the best games I've played. I would hate for it to be remembered as also one of the worst for how awful I felt at the end. BW's spent 5 years promoting themes of tolerance, unity, and acceptance in the ME trilogy. The endings, as is, seem to destroy those themes. Our friends' sacrifices, Shepard's sacrifice had been made in vain. We deserve a better ending to Mass Effect. I think BioWare deserves a better ending to Mass Effect.

[crimzontearz]

uh.....to those asking for insane amounts of EMS for a perfect ending


some people REVILE MP and the war asetts are bugged at the moment sooo...can we tone that down


also, since Repetita juvant, there neds to be a full spectrum of endings from tragic ( phyrrc victory) to happy (Shepard alive with his LI and whatnot).

options are your friend

[Friera]

First of all, I must say the whole ME triology - including ME3 - is absolutly brilliand. Its a damn shame the ending has to destroy my whole look on the franchaise like that. And I am more than willing to buy another DLC to get one - or hopefully both - of my major problem witht he game to be fixed.

And I believe Mara281 did a very good job describing what I want as well.But the biggest problem is the ending. Do something, before the game ends up in my "never-want-to-play-again" list.

The ending
Either 1) embrace the indoctrinationtheory, and make another ending after that based on what happend after that where our choice does matter
Or 2) redo the last 20 minutes to a whole different endingS - where we have from destroy everything to save the day. We want options, and I don´t need everyone to be alive and kicking in a lame typical Hollywood happy happy ending, but at least show justice to everything we have done so far- like improving the relations, what happens to your squad, LIs etc.

Thane
I must say, everything with him was ****ty if you romanced him. At the end of ME2 he wanted to live, and you guys kept dropping hints about lung transplantation - so give us that option! Let my Shepard have the option to fight by his side once again.
If you absolutly have to kill him, make Shepard at least show some FEELINGS. Seemed like Shep didn´t care at all about he was dying here. but I do, and my Shep is played through me!

EMS
Please don´t force us to have to play MP to get the perfect ending. Some of us actually don´t have a good enough internet connection, and its truly like feeling robbed of not being able to complete the game 100%.

This is really wishful thinking, but kinda hope Vega can be romanceable... Pretty please?

Modifié par Friera, 19 mars 2012 - 10:36 .

[Klimax]

My few ideass for improvement:
1)Context for Normandy escape. (Why is Joker flying andwhy and how many of your team got on board)

2)Some more dialog out of Star Child especially on Green ending. (How it will do its work mostly)

3)Altered/extended scene showing destruction of Relays to show clearer drain on its internal core. (Explaining lesser explosion) @Archonsg : Have you seen how those two rings stopped?

4)Proper epilog covering majority of choices/grouping of choices. (no need for very long scenes or walls of text- a shorter paragraph would be good enough + short (semi-) static scene for some major characters, organisations and places like in Fallout 1 and 2)
+ a larger paragraph for each choice. (final state of galaxy - similar to epilogs in Starcraft, Supreme Commander or I-war 2)

5)short scene for Reapers attack on Citadel and status of its population

Summary: Expand.

(I wonder how many things would be possible from list if given more time and/or DLC/Patch budget not so limited)

Edit: inserted line to make it better readable.
addition: bit more dialogue reflecting completion of current mission (N7 or assignement-like) would be welcomed
(Even non-interactive)

Modifié par Klimax, 19 mars 2012 - 10:52 .

[crimzontearz]

Friera wrote...First of all, I must say the whole ME triology - including ME3 - is absolutly brilliand. Its a damn shame the ending has to destroy my whole look on the franchaise like that. And I am more than willing to buy another DLC to get one - or hopefully both - of my major problem witht he game to be fixed. And I believe Mara281 did a very good job describing what I want as well.But the biggest problem is the ending. Do something, before the game ends up in my "never-want-to-play-again" list.The endingEither 1) embrace the indoctrinationtheory, and make another ending after that based on what happend after that where our choice does matterOr 2) redo the last 20 minutes to a whole different endingS - where we have from destroy everything to save the day. We want options, and I don´t need everyone to be alive and kicking in a lame typical Hollywood happy happy ending, but at least show justice to everything we have done so far- like improving the relations, what happens to your squad, LIs etc.ThaneI must say, everything with him was ****ty if you romanced him. At the end of ME2 he wanted to live, and you guys kept dropping hints about lung transplantation - so give us that option! Let my Shepard have the option to fight by his side once again. If you absolutly have to kill him, make Shepard at least show some FEELINGS. Seemed like Shep didn´t care at all about he was dying here. but I do, and my Shep is played through me!EMSPlease don´t force us to have to play MP to get the perfect ending. Some of us actually don´t have a good enough internet connection, and its truly like feeling robbed of not being able to complete the game 100%.This is really wishful thinking, but kinda hope Vega can be romanceable... Pretty please?

We have had plenty of imposed plot deaths by the time the ending rolls out...I can say it's OK to keep Shepard alive as an option uh?

[Kalms]

Quick fix to the ending: After Anderson takes his last breath, we watch the Citadel opening its arms even wider, and let it all fade to white. We can imagine the rest for ourselves.

I'd rather have that, than nothing at all or that blue kid. Seriously.

[Edje Edgar]

Fix the ending's so they're less immoral. Working with starchild is, atleast from a moral standpoint, absolutely inexcusable and should not be forced onto every shephard. Either remove the scene entirely (which will cost you more no doubt, but will severely increase the quality of the ending) or add the option to flip him off.

You cannot end the series of Mass Effect with the message that conflicts can only be solved by subjugation, extermination or "synthesis". It goes against everything Shephard stood for.

[Erethrian]

Oh, I forgot to mention something:

This was posted on another board of the forums:

Han Shot First wrote...



One
of my biggest problems with the endings, particularly the Red Ending,
is that it is an example of schizophrenic writing. The writers had spent
a good portion of the game establishing that synthetics in the end,
were not all that different from organics, both through the personal
interactions between EDI, Joker and Shepard, or through the Quarians
and Geth finding common ground and agreeing to share Rannoch. 



That
peace between Quarians and the Geth, and EDI evolving to the point
where she expressed a willingness to sacrifice her own 'life' for the
well being of her organic ship mates, was suddenly discarded by the
writers in the last 5 minutes of the game. By the end EDI and Legion had
become persons, rather than the things. Yet in the final conversation
we are told that organics and synthetics cannot peacefully coexist,
despite that flying in the face of the theme the writers had been
exploring for most of the game. Even worse, Shepard has no option to
challenge that assertion and is forced into simply accepting it.



Did
different writers have a hand in EDI's dialogue, the Rannoch mission,
and the endings? Because the tone of EDI's dialogue and the Rannoch
mission complety conflicts with the idea presented in the ending, as if
they were written by different people operating with different themes in
mind, who had absolutely no communication with each other.



"Does this unit have a soul?"



I
believe it does. So why must they be annihilated to destroy the
Reapers? Why must Shepard betray EDI and one faction of his
allies, and commit xenocide?



Honestly, it is worse than any of the flaws with Deception.



EDIT: Apologies for posting this here, but I'm unable to register my preordered copy of ME3 on this forum.

I agree with him. And I think Destroy should be the best ending (It is
for me and the Ind. theory, if true) but you should be able to let the
Geth and other synthetics live. As Hackett says, you can't control the
reapers. And "merge" is to become a reaper after all.



Another thing I've been thinking about. If the "Destroy option destroys the
synth. shouldn't also destroy the spaceships and advanced pieces of
technology? Because if that's not the case (somehow) then, why is the
Normandy affected by the energy if you choose Synthesys or Control? It
makes no sense.

[ApophisGoauld]

VlPER007 wrote...

I am a firm believer in the "Indoctrination Theory". It would allow a seamless transition from what is presently representing the ending to what could be added later as "The Truth". Not only that, but it would turn what was once one of the worst endings created into one of sheer brilliance. For my suggestion, I will begin at the part where Shepard is charging toward the beam and then blacks out.

When he hears everyone has been killed and there are no survivors, this is just part of the hallucination his mind is fabricating as indoctrination is setting in. In reality, most the men were cut down by Harbinger's beam. Perhaps even a piece of building collapses, temporarily cutting him off from his squad and any reinforcements. (Thus allowing a bit of time for his encounter with the "Catalyst" while they catch up)

So who while your team is climbing over the rubble trying to get to you and the transporter beam, you meet with the Catalyst as is currently shown. I will also stop after each choice at the point where he goes into the beam for real. Here is how the 3 choices will play out for the Indoctrination Theory.

Choice 1: You choose to destroy all synthetic life.

Result:  Shepard has broken free of Indoctrination. He wakes up to realize the whole thing was a figment of his imagination and that the Reapers were in fact attempting to indoctrinate him. At this point, his team clears the rubble to see him getting up from the floor. As you all rejoin together, Harbinger ceases fire to focus on a new larger threat. A small but strong collection of ships scream in. Cerberus insignia emblazoned on the side. They attack Harbinger. While that battle is going on, you fight another wave of Husks, Cannibals, Marauders, maybe even a Banshee or Brute.

Harbinger, overwhelmed, by the dwindling Cerberus fleet, retreats (for now) and is followed by the bulk of what's left of those ships. One Cerberus ship lands and T.I.M. along with more Cerberus Commandos step off. You have a conversation where you can once again try to convince him to fight with you instead of against you. If you have extremely high paragon points, you succeed and he shoots himself. (I imagine seeing that again will confuse him somewhat. lol) If not, you fight him and his men. During the fight, he retreats into the beam along with a couple of his commandos. If he shoots himself, like Saren before him, Harbinger takes over his body and still retreats into the beam.


Choice 2: You choose to control the Reapers.

Result: Shepard is still battling the Indoctrination affects, but his mind is losing ground fast. The scene plays out the same as the scene above with the exception that you have no chance to convince T.I.M. to join you as you are to far under their control to convince another they are also. His friends voices also seem to have a slightly echoing sound to it, when he first wakes up. Another sign his mind is failing. T.I.M.’s arrival puts him back into focus.


Choice 3: You choose Synthesis.

Result: Shepard has been successfully indoctrinated. (Or so the Reapers think) Like the first scene, he wakes up to realize the whole thing was a figment of his imagination, but this time he doesn't realize it was an attempt to Indoctrinate him. Instead he simply feels like it was another strange vision brought by being knocked one to many times in the head. At this point, his team clears the rubble to see him getting up from the floor. What Shepard sees though horrifies him. Instead of seeing his friends, he sees himself surrounded by Husks (Ashley/Kaiden, Jack, Miranda, Jacob, James, Anderson, maybe even EDI, + 2 random other soldiers as husks, I'll explain) a Marauder (Garris), and 2 Banshee's (Liara, Samara/Morinth), not sure what a reaper version of krogan would be (for Wrex and Grunt).... Meanwhile, Harbinger again ceases fire to focus on a new larger threat. A small but strong collection of ships screams in. Cerberus insignia emblazoned on the side. They attack Harbinger. Now back to Shepard.

As the group close in on him, the two random soldiers are closest, the hold out their hands to help the Commander up. Seeing only husks, this looks like a regular attack from husks. He opens fire (much to the shock of his team) killing the 2 men. They dive for cover and begin to defend themselves. Now during this whole battle, Shepard can hear the voices of his friends but only see Reaper pawns. They are pleading with him the whole time to stop. Finally Liara or Samara/Morinth hit him with a singularity or something that renders him immobile for a time. They approach him and talk him back to his senses. Finally the illusion of them being the enemy fades and he sees them for what they truly are....his friends and allies. I imagine an interchange of words would occur before the Cerberus portion mentioned above happens.


Conclusion: So now at this point. T.I.M. is either dead by your hand or his own, Harbinger has been driven back, and you are now free to enter the transporter beam......again. You do so with only 2 team mates, the rest staying behind to guard the beam. Moving at a normal pace you enter the same area as you did before. Instead of seeing Anderson at the control panel, you see T.I.M. As you close in, T.I.M. turns around revealing his eyes changing to bright yellow and you hear the "assuming direct control" quote from ME2. A small dialogue occurs after which the final "boss" fight takes place with you and T.I.M. Perhaps as side enemies, keepers can come charging in from somewhere and attack as well. lol

As the final battle concludes, this is where your "War Assets" come into play.

Outcome 1 (Failure): If you didn't have enough, you hear Admiral Hackett over your comm. The voice is broken up and static filled. You can make out him yelling at you that they can't hold on any longer. You rush over to the control panel to initiate the weapon, but it's to late. You see Harbinger crash through Admiral Hackett's ship and fire on the Crucible. Meanwhile, you also here the rest of your team that you left on the planet cry out as they are overwhelmed by Reaper ground forces and all killed. And finally as you watch the Crucible along with what's left of the fleet be destroyed, you hear the foot steps of endless waves of Reaper ground forces marching up the hall. You fight them till you die.

Outcome 2 (Partial Victory): You hear Admiral Hackett over the comm. This time his voice is clear, but he is yelling that they don't have much time left. They are about to be overrun and won't be able to defend the Crucible much longer. You race to the control panel and fire the weapon! Killing the Reapers and winning the war. The amount of "War Assets" you attain in this scenario will determine how many of your squad survived the battle. If your total is just above the minimum required to attain the partial victory, after the Reapers are destroyed, you suddenly realize you have been mortally wounded. You die shortly after victory is attained in the arms of one of the squad mates you brought with you. In the case where Admiral Hacket dies, (see point system below) Harbinger crashes through his ship like in the fail scenario, killing him. However, Shepard activates the Crucible just seconds before Harbinger can close the distance and fire on the weapon.

Outcome 3 (Total Victory): In this rare case scenario, if you have achieved an insanely large amount of "War Assets", you gain the perfect ending. Total Victory. You hear Admiral Hacket over the comm. His voice is clear and relatively calm albeit firm. He says something like, "Shepard where are you? We're holding ok, but we can't hold indefinitely. Get a move on!" You approach the control panel, ignite the Crucible thus killing the Reapers and winning the war. You get to return to the rest of your friends and LI.

Example of point system:

Fail = 4,000 points or less
Shepard + 7 squad mates (on the ground, including LI) + Admiral Hackett die + 4 wounded + severe fleet losses = 4,001-4,400 points
Shepard + 6 Squad mates (on the ground, including LI) die + 4 wounded + severe fleet losses = 4,401-4,800 points
Shepard + 5 Squad mates (on the ground, NOT including LI) die + 4 wounded + heavy fleet losses = 4,801-5,200 points
4 Squad mates (on the ground, NOT including LI) die + 4 wounded + heavy fleet losses = 5,201-5,600 points
3 Squad mates (on the ground, NOT including LI) die + 4 wounded + moderately heavy fleet losses = 5,601-6,000 points
2 Squad mates (on the ground, NOT including LI) die + 4 wounded + moderately heavy fleet losses = 6,001-6,400 points
1 Squad mates (on the ground, NOT including LI) die + 4 wounded + moderately heavy fleet losses = 6,401-6,800 points
Perfect Victory + moderate fleet losses = 6,801 points or more

Characters I would have present for choice before (actually) going up to the Citadel:

1. Anderson
2. Ashley / Kaiden
3. Liara
4. Tali
5. Wrex
6. Grunt
7. Garrus
8. Jack
9. Miranda
10. Samara / Morinth
11. Jacob
12. James
13. EDI

Now in the event that some of these characters are not available (due to maybe being killed in an earlier game), the death count should remain the same for whatever "War Asset" point total they have and the amount of wounded would be decreased. The characters that die, can either be chosen randomly (outside of the LI of course) or can be chosen based on how much interaction has occured between shepard an the characters (assuming some characters were not that engage in conversation with the player due to lack of interest). Should the latter option for choosing who dies be decided upon, I would have the closest characters to the player die first up to half the number required to die. the rest can be chosen randomly.I feel this would create a stronger sense of loss and a better feeling of what this war really cost, than simply killing off character the player didn't really care about first anyway. It would also create a stronger desire to want to do better and achieve a higher score.

As for the weapon itself. It could simply be as how the destroy option in the current ending shows it. The Reapers suddenly short circuit and fall to the ground dead. This destructive "signal" or "blast" is shot through the relays to destroy all the reapers galaxy wide, while leaving the relays and the citadel in tact.

So In short:

In the fail outcome, Shepard along with everyone else is destroyed. Cue up next cycle...
In middle outcome, Shepard and many of his team could die, but the reapers are destroyed and the galaxy as a whole is saved.
In the perfect ending, Shepard and all of his team survive, (though some will still be wounded) the reapers are destroyed and the galaxy is saved. Cue up party music and drinks all around at the nearest bar mentioned by one of the characters!

Agreed, but War assets for perfect victory should be collectable without Multiplayer...

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Plenty of suggestions already. I've only one.

Spare a thought for those not playing MP. The most points that can be garnered from SP is at least 4000 +. So those who have no inclination / aptitude for MP are at a gross disadvantage if EMS points of 5000 - 7000 are needed to achieve the maximum best effect on the outcome. Too, even playing MP doesn't ensure a maximum peak efficiency because I discovered it drops if MP has not been touched for 24 hours, to 95% Imagine not playing MP for a few days, it drops to default 50%??

What happens say, 1.5 years down the road, I want to play ME 3 again but the servers are no longer available. Doesn't that effectively locked the outcome into one singular path? And not the best at that? 

I'm under no illusions there will be any changes to the conclusions though, all my playthrough effectively halted in London and never even went near the beam.  But since there is this thread, my peanuts worth.

[Ninja81]

I finished Mass Effect 3 for the second time. I do not want to argue on the final sequence because many fans have speculated about its real meaning trying to fill the many plot holes. My opinion about this is that the theory of indoctrination is the most valid.

What disappointed me was the final battle on Earth. I would expect something very similar to the suicide mission of the Collectors' base, where the final outcome of the battle and the survival of his team would depend on how many forces had been gathering throughout the galaxy (war assets) and by his decisions. Instead it is simply a corridor full of shootings to the Citadel and to the confusing ending.

my two cents.

[WaterWar]

Some of the stuff here is really impressive and I agree with most of it.
I don't know if this article has been mentioned, but it summarizes some of the problems with the current endings and I agree a lot with what they point out in the article.
5 reasons the fans are right

I'm glad you, at Bioware, are willing to listen to our feedback!

[Xenite]

Kub666 wrote...

Mbednar wrote...

I'm pretty sure that most of us DESPISE the idea of the relays being destroyed.  Unless I'm in the minority... If so I'll just hang my head low in the corner.

Regardless of who likes what, they did not pay Buzz Aldrin for nothing. The epilogue stays, there's no other way. So the relays have to be destroyed, even if they correct the ending itself.

Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever....

[Good_Chaos7]

I don't want to give you idea's on how to write an ending.. You guys did a good job with the ME1 & 2 Ending But this..  THIS!? All I want is a Happy Ending!  Yes you can call me sappy, But I believe my Colonist / sole survivor deserves it..

On my 1st play through I managed to get my readiness at 7001 & I had the other Readiness at 100% So I lived.. but for what..
          Why is My Li & crew playing "Gilligan's Island" on a deserted planet, not to mention Li-Garrus will probably starve to death since he's Dextro..  OK! I realized I'm just rambling.. All I'm saying (different endings.. as in Different ENDINGS)

There are people out there who tried their best to breeze through & chose the bad decisions to get the worst ending, others who may be new & go half assed.. will get a similar ending to this & those like myself who united the Quarians & Geth, saved Wrex & the krogans, Everyone is united. transferred my saves from both games where I did ALL side missions in them as well..

But!  Instead the game ends with No Hope..Mass relays dead, If syntheses diversity is GONE! Or in my case RED choice Reapers dead (YAY) Everyone else Mass Relays gone, All hope for Dextro & LI x_x will most likely die (BOOOOO!!) seriously I don't think I can get myself to play again.. ah that reminds me the try again screen after hearing you're a legend.. To dig the knife a little deeper you might as well threw a troll face in that blue box..

P.S. It's almost 4 in the morning & I've been up to beat this game & just finished it.. Just to show you How much of a Fan I am to Mass Effect.. I just have no words to describe how I feel right now.. & just checked the internet to find out the "possible DLC" will not change the ending.. Well I say "B*llSh*t" You Have to Change it!  I don't care How? Or how Long! But get to hiring who ever Use TO work on the 1st ME game & Fix This!!!!