7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Siha89]

A legacy like Shepards shouldn't end, people have put too many hours of gameplay and thought into the background if their Shepard, a legends death should not be left in confusion. We would of accepted a generic everything works out ending because it works. The Indoctrination Theory is the only way that ending makes a bit of sense. Once Shepard lives and she gets her blue babies I will be happy other than that the game was amazing:-)

[jacknoodles]

I liked the endings but i would like them fleshed out a bit more because they were very vague .
A proper epilogue would be nice even if it was just text based just to explain the aftermath.

There should have been a bad ending where the reapers win if you didnt gather enough assets like in me2 if you failed to gain the loyalty of your crew and made bad choices your crew all died and joker was the only one to survive mmmm maybe i should load up that save and see if it works in me3 lol.

[CashGrab]

First I'd like to say that i love Mass Effect and am incredibly appreciative of the series writing and the idea of importing which will revolutionise gaming in the future. The whole experiance was spectacular, infuriating, sad, happy, triumphant , funny, poignant and caused me to seriously look at my morals and motivations when making a choice. Something no game has ever made me do before. It was all maintained and my expectations were met...until the last 10 minutes.

At this point The choices we were being presented with and the motives behind them (i.e synthetics and organics cannot exist) conflicted with the very fabric of the feel of the ME Universe itself, a story built on hope, cooperation and tolerance. To wave off the Geth and Quarian peace settlement and EDI and Jokers Romance as not even worth Shepard mentioning is therefore unforgiveable in this context as the Starchilds reasoning is fundamentally flawed; shepard (reagrdless of whether paragon, renegade, paragade or renegon) would never just accept these options ESPECIALLY the control reapers ending where shepard has been berating TIm the whole agme for believeing...sythsis ending just doesn't make sense either (synthetic dna?) due to the odd science and the moral implications of forcing a genocide of sorts; species as they were are to be extinct.

Follwoing on from that are a variety of plotholes of such scope I can hardly believe Bioware, who I know to have some of the industrys best talent and creative processes, wrote it. Where was Joker going? Why? Why was my squadmate at the 'harbinger run' suddenly on the jungle planet? Where is the planet? Why didn't the galaxy obliterate following the mass relay destruction? These untied plot holes are not what makes a good ending. if this is Shepards last story then the team has no room to actually answer them making the choice of climax even stranger. The shepard lives section therefore seems even more superfluous. We as gamers were promised as has been cited a conclusive ending...this did not occur I am afraid to say.

I am one of the many on this forum and elsewhere who have taken solace therfore in the Indoctrination theory due to its ability to close up many of these plotholes and act as second chance to do the games conclusion justice. An inner struggle to regain control of sheps mind using his own fears and stengths against him (e.g. He must choose a nightmare solution either way and harbinger is using what was his best quality to the reapers advantage) would not only contribute to a phenomenal plot twist following sheps escape (via destruction due to his rejection of the reapers own goals [ noone controls a reaper as we told tim over and over and synthesis sounds an awful lot like husks]). This would also create a far more artistic experiance as has been said by writers they were aiming for.

My ideal occuremce would be shep awaking after the beam hitting, entering the citadel and discovering a new human reaper. this would make sense of why Earth has become a reaper focal point and help bring back into focus the ME2 ending which seems to ahve largely been forgotten in the plot. Its implications need not be explained as I believe reaper ignorance makes them a more foreboding foe. I would then suggests some sort of showdown with Hrabinger and TIM in a fusion of sorts, by this I mean harbinger controlling TIM, maybe sacrificing himself for the human reaper if not feasible.

EMS would also need a larger role as apart from having a minimum to launch and the unlocking of Sythesis and the Shepard Lives cutscene it seems to have been a pointless mechanic. Myabe utilise it so as the higher the ems the less reapers will attack the citadel, aware of Sheps prescence, with harbinger. A positive correlation would occur whereby the higher the ems the less reapers and more damaged Harbinger is, making the fight more easy and also openign up more diverse endings.

As to the very end of the game I suggest the use of the Catalyst still but with only destruction occuring, Ems again determinging the effectiveness of the weapon as this would reward the patient player rather than he who blazes through. More effectrive=reapers loose, least effective=shep dies and reapers win along with a few intermediates. preferably some actual squadmates can have the opportunity to die at this or the harbinger point as well as after ME2 suicide mission the idea of plot armour seems less relevant to the series. though I dread the idea, seeing garrus sacrifice himself would be intensely moving experiance.

In regards to character arcs I would appreciate as would all of those who dislike the ending scenes or an epilouge os sorts explaing what the galaxy has been up to immediately and perhaps some time after the defeat; did the geth-quarian peace last? Who dies on earth of my me 2 squaddies if at all (ems determing this too alonmg with choice e.g. grunt and wrex living results in wrex surviving, just wrex? then he dies etc.). Even a text epiloge would be appreciative here as a result, saving money, resources and fulfilling a vital role for fans; it worked in Dragon Age it can work here.

Now I understand that the idea of a DLC ending you never probably planned for alongside or in favour of other planned dlc (we all know take back omega is coming) and the cost of reuniting the team and/or voice actors like martin sheen or lance henriksson could be expensive but I would willingly pay for a £10 dlc or expansion pack that changed the ending along the lines of the indoctrination theory as it would provide a graeter sense of closure and allow further development of the franchise as a whole due to closed plotholes and the retaining of the MASS relays, an important element of MASS effect and also provide a monetary fee that could generate profit. Unless (and this is the only way i can see further development) the idea of franchise future is to have all races part synthetic (via sythesis ending or voluntary augmentation in the other 2 endings) in the future, then I cannot see any good continuation. That is not Mass Effect; Thats Deus Ex.

In conclusion,I would like to once again proclaim Bioware my favourite developer and express congratulations to them for delivering a game series monumentally important to not just my gaming life but many millions more. I loved mass effect3 but feel the ending severly compromises its place as a 'great' in such a way that it tarnishes its stature. I would like to extend the idea of an indoctrination ending/epilouge/expansion/continuation dlc to bioware as the best solution and hope this will be followed up.

Holding the Line.

Modifié par CashGrab, 21 mars 2012 - 02:14 .

[Erathsmedor]

They could even keep the current ****ty ending and have it be all in Shepard's head as he lies dying after being hit by Harbinger's beam - if the player did not have enough war assets. Not enough war assets = fewer targets for all the reapers = fewer targets for Harbinger to destroy = easier to shoot and kill Shepard. This could work since Shepard saw that kid all the way through the game in his dreams and like so it stands to reason his brain in its dying moment would conjure up something with the kid.

But if the player had lots of war assets (as a result of decision made which were supposed to change the outcome of the game), then more war assets = more targets for reapers to fend off = more forces with Shepard make it to the Citadel, where they fight is carried on to activate the crucible.

Again, this could play out much better if the player made choices throughout the game that increased Citadel war readiness and so the resident and C-Sec were ready and able to fight after the Cerberus assault - or not go so well if decisions were made that hamper this - again making the decisions the player made actually matter - like were promised throughout all 3 games

[howens3]

Dear Bioware,                                                                                                                                                

                 I already wrote this as a letter and sent it to your headquarters in Edmonton but I figured I would post it here with a few edits and more feedback. This is the first time posting on the forums here and felt the need to express my concerns. I have been a fan of Bioware since KOTOR (1+2), Jade Empire, Dragon Age Origins, and Mass Effect (1+2+3). I also played Dragon Age 2 but I did not like the game and I won't go there. I have been particularly loyal and grew attached to the Mass Effect series, could even use the word love. Played Mass Effect 1 on about three playthroughs, Mass Effect 2 on two, and just finished Mass Effect 3. In fact, I made a challenge to myself to do a playthrough this year and finish all three games on Insanity mode and do everything in the games. Couldn’t finish all the little side quests in Mass Effect 1, driving around in the Mako on every planet was too tedious even for me, but other than that Mission Accomplished. I own Mass Effect 1 and 2 on PC and Xbox360. Mass Effect 3 for Xbox360 I prefer Xbox360 because of the controller functionality feels better with my hands, using a keyboard too long really hurts.

                Now that I have given you my background on my fandom, I will now explain why I am writing this letter. The ending to Mass Effect 3 was atrocious. Honestly, I could have handled a bad ending but not that. I purchased Mass Effect 3: Collector’s Edition because I believed I was going to get my money’s worth and an epic end to the greatest set of games I have ever played. The reason I played the games and put so much time into the series was for the moment to fight the Reapers and achieve the ending I wanted/earned. My first reaction to the ending was that I didn’t finish everything and should have participated in the Multiplayer some more but after doing research on the internet, it turns out that the ending is basically the same and generic for everyone. The ending was a slap in the face to me, after dedicating days of my life to the Mass Effect Series. In hindsight, I could have not tried at all and achieved the same ending.

                On the other hand, the game is amazing and before the last 10 minutes of the game I was going to declare the best game I have ever played. The interactions were great, uniting the galaxy, the revamped fighting engine, the "little" side conversation moments with the crew members of the Normandy, the emotional up and down of losing beloved characters, fantastic soundtrack and a excellent mesh of RPG and action shooter. Everything was beyond perfect 11 out of 10 (not a typo) but now I can’t score it cause the game is incomplete. I had problems with the face importing on Xbox360 but I worked around that by using a nifty trick posted on a few forums, so I forgave you for that. But I cannot forgive the ending. It felt too cheap and thrown together, as if, you couldn’t think of a way to end it so you pulled a Deus Ex on it. I didn’t like the ending to Deus Ex: Human Revolution but I can accept it because the game was building up to a moment like that. Not to mention, I wasn't as emotionally invested in that game so I said whatever and sold it back to GameStop.

                 Games that I felt had great endings were Dragon Age: Origins, Fallout 3, Final Fantasy X, and Metal Gear Solid 4. What do they all have in common? Closure. In Dragon Age: Origins and Fallout 3, they explain what happens to various characters in the end and what the world looks like after you accomplish your goal. Granted Fallout 3 isn't known for its ending but I considered it better than Mass Effect 3. If you wanted a "bittersweet" ending look at Final Fantasy X, that game was amazing and had an ending that was painful and emotional but you could accept it because it made sense and saved the world. You saw that in the cut scenes and ultimately it brought closure. I won't even talk about Final Fantasy X-2 because I am going to pretend that never happened. I had expected something bittersweet with closure from Mass Effect 3 because of how much I emotionally invested in each character.

                 In particular the love interest, in this game it is Miranda for me. What happens to her? It’s bad enough she wasn’t in my squad for Mass Effect 3 but now I don’t even know what happens to her in the end. I accepted the fact she wasn’t in my squad because I figured in the end I would either die to make the galaxy safe for everyone or we would find each other and retire to the beach, as Garrus suggested. As sappy, stupid, or whatever it may seem. I chose to destroy the Reapers and all synthetic life so that I would be able to keep my promise to her that I would find her again. I didn't know that Shepard would survive if I destroyed all synthetic life, but I figured it was my best chance. As a side note about the love interest, I liked the idea in ME2 to have a picture of your love interest in your cabin, if you could somehow bring that back especially since some of our love interests are not in ME3 squad, would be amazing.

                Want an example of an immaculate ending? Try playing Metal Gear Solid series, from one to four. I cried at the end of the fourth one. I have never cried (and haven’t since) before for a video game and that was the first and last time it has happened. On the other hand I have to admit I almost cried seeing Thane, Legion, and Mordin die. In all honesty, I was looking for an ending that would make me cry like Metal Gear Solid 4. I wanted to see what my unique choices from all 3 games would do. I know my choices united the galaxy but what about the aftermath? No closure and no ending that makes me feel that I saved the galaxy. I would have tolerated waiting an extra year even if that’s what it would have taken to put together an epic ending. I would easily trade the multiplayer element of Mass Effect 3 for a proper ending and I actual like the Multiplayer. I would have even accepted the Deus Ex ending, if Mass Effect 3 had an actual epilogue. If you guys make an ending DLC, I would gladly pay $20 (even though it should be free) for it so it would fix this because this is unacceptable.

              Finally, the ending leaves more questions than it solves. For instance, it was established in the Arrival DLC that destroying the Mass Relays wipes out the presiding system. According to visual evidence, those looked like pretty big explosions when seen from the galaxy map. Also Joker is seen as running away, the Joker I know and love would never run from the biggest fight in galactic history, even if it was from an explosion that no one else could have happened to out run and not to mention that Joker would have never retreated, even under pain of court martial, from his commander. Seriously, this is the same guy that was hopelessly trying to save the original Normandy when she was practically split in half. The Effective Military Strength should play a bigger in the end game with the Reapers, the higher the score the better the ending. The indoctrination theory could be a saving grace for sure. Ultimately, we should be able to have a choice how we want our stories to finish. For instance, if Shepard wants to save Earth and the galaxy then he must sacrifice himself but he could opt to not sacrifice himself at the cost of destroying Earth but still save the galaxy. If sacrifice is the only way, then at least make it mean something. Show how the galaxy remembers "The Shepard", not just Stargazer. At the very least, we should be able to see the results of Shepard’s actions and not just a brief, speculative clip. An Ewok party like the end of the Star Wars saga would have been a nice touch. Speculation has no business at the end of a story, and its writing suicide to do so.

                  If you reading this far, I would like to thank you for your time and consideration to my concern. I honestly hope you all will fix this with a DLC because after Dragon Age 2 and now the Mass Effect 3 ending, I have a bad taste in my mouth and it has caused me to consider not buying a Bioware game ever again. 5 out 5 of my friends that have played Mass Effect 3 disliked the ending, they don't know about the retake movement or child's play donation until I told them about them, so its something to perhaps keep in mind when calling people like me a "vocal minority". I believe a majority of your fans disliked the ending. I am usually not this outspoken for much, but the Mass Effect trilogy means a lot to me. I even donated to Child's Play to retake Mass Effect. Please Bioware, please don't let this epic trilogy fall to the way side and leave us fans without closure to our stories. I will personally write another letter apologizing for doubting you if you fix this. But just so you know I intend to keep the Mass Effect series (even Mass Effect 3), because the series is still immaculate and I hope to see a DLC that will bring a true closure to the Mass Effect series.

Thank you again and I hope you have a pleasant day!

Modifié par howens3, 21 mars 2012 - 04:20 .

[Shevar]

Why don't they go all Red Dead Redemption on this one. Shepard Dies no matter what, but you can play ass your offspring (for future DLC) if you are paragon.

Not possible I know, this just came out the top of my head. (silly head is silly).

But seriously, It would be great If Shepard lives and as an epilogue you have to take out the splintered Cerberus factions (Omega, etc.)

Of course Shepard living isn't exactly what I'm after. I don't need a happy ending per see, just one for the Shepards that are full on paragon and have 5000+ war assets.

A slight diversion from what we have now.

For instance: The Reapers shut down like in the best destroy ending, beam shoots to the relays creating a 'shutdown field' , kinda like and EMP burst, that turns of all reapers in the system the relay is in, but no destruction of the relays or the citadel.
In the end a nice DA:O-esque epilogue (cut scenes or text, i don't mind reading) and the ability to pick this option during a conversation with the Starchild by selecting a Paragon option(no renegade 'cause that wouldn't fit the ending) on the left of the dialog wheel.

Just a rough summarization.

[JoeyDeaconBlues]

I'd like more content (who wouldn't), but feel i got more than enough entertainment from the mass effect series to warrant the price of admission and would be happy to pay for DLC and alternate endings without feeling betrayed. I am aware that development costs money and new endings may not be cost effective or possible for free.

What I would like as free DLC however is an epilogue consisting of a war room (on the Normandy would be nice but not essential) which could be explored like the shadow broker base (maybe as Hacket or Lliara if Shep is Dead) and could find out what happened with each war asset, watch a few cut scene highlights, read up on the fates of key players in the conflict and generally find some closure to what was an awesome game and series with a slightly lack luster end.

the rest of what i'd like (more Omega, Illium and Elcorr) has already been expressed as eloquently as it could possibly be by other posters so I'll leave it at that.

Peace and Happiness
Tom (JoeyDeaconBlues)

[xdognatex]

 Here is my take on the ending. Not only was there not much closure, it just didnt make much sense (if it was a dream or indoctrination bravo could be kinda cool, im leaning toward thinking they didnt intend for this tho). The lack of dialog and choices at the end were just plan weird and out of place for the game. I dont want a happy ending just one that makes sense/brings some closure to the story.

I think they should do something to fix it, mabye not change it but add to it or something because its just a horrible way to end such a good series and the sad thing is despite the 3 games being so good as time goes on the ending will be what most people remember about the series and well its not going to be a fond memory for most.

I know people are saying not to change the endings, thats its art and its their game. Thats all fine and dandy, but on the same note im a consumer, if that is the stance bioware/EA takes. Im fine with it, BUT on the same note as a consumer i have the right to say fine you want to take that stance, well then my wallet is closed to you till you fix it. Money speaks louder than words and ill be letting EA/Bioware know how i feel with my wallet, they wont get a dime from me till they change or fix the ending If they dont want to change or fix it thats fine, they have every right not too, but they have lost me as a customer.

You want Bioware/EA to listen tell them with your wallet, their ears will start to perk up real fast.

[mulder1199]

how about a 'rescue' dlc that closes the holes in the story regarding your shipmates and LI etc.....

or a patch plus a dlc like 'take back omega' where your war assets are up from helping aria and the patch opens up a new option for you at the end....

the same patch could include an end that 'wakes' people from the indoctrination and finish it that way.....

[Ichigo75XBL]

Scathelock wrote...

My two cents.

Concise version: canon ending holds that Shepard fights off Indoctrination (as seen during the current ending with Destroy option), wakes up in the rubble. Fights Harbinger with allies and war assets, goes up to Citadel (with love interest if there there is one). There, he kills Illusive Man, discovers that Catalyst is means of ordering Keepers to finish (building/programming) Crucible. Crucible's primary function is to destroy all advanced civilization in galaxy, destroying all Reapers and sacrificing all the developed races but leaving undeveloped ones untouched, which will evolve in coming centuries. Shepard becomes both destroyer and savior of galaxy.

Long description: The Crucible is something that has been in the works for many cycles. It makes sense to me, then, that everyone who worked on it had to think about what it was meant to do - not simply saving themselves, or their planet, or their people, or even the current iteration of the cycle: it should mean saving the galaxy from the Reapers, and by extension, from the terrible cycle of Reaping. Everyone is fighting against the Reapers knowing that they may have to give up their lives; for many of them, that's the greatest sacrifice they may be called on to make. But my Shepard isn't like them; he got where he was by looking at abstract values, by focusing on what's important beyond the here and now. He's no longer just a commander of the human Alliance now, he's essentially the commander of the entire galaxy. He has to be willing to make the hard choices, like he told Vega and Garrus, by sacrificing those fighting with him. The ultimate cost, then, is that all advanced civilization in the galaxy must be destroyed (as collateral damage caused by the Crucible in wiping out the the Reapers, while leaving untouched any infant alien races that haven't evolved), in order to give future civilizations a life without fear of being Reaped.


If Bioware never released another DLC, my own imagined "canon" ending might be as follows:

(1) Shepard fights off Indoctrination by choosing the Destroy option (as played through my current ending) and awakens in the rubble of London.

(2) Joker, Cortez, surviving associates and other war assets (e.g. the Rachni Queen, who I'd been expecting to make a combat appearance) come in to distract or fight off Harbinger, who is still there defending the Beam. People will die, and Shepard has some choice in deciding who takes the brunt of Harbinger's fire. This gives Shepard the chance to make it to the portal.

(3) With Harbinger temporarily disabled/crippled, Shepard ascends to the Citadel, possibly with allies and/or Anderson (and if the Normandy makes a crash landing, you can choose your teammates from the survivors). If there is one and (s)he is alive, Shepard's love interest should briefly request to accompany him, though you can deny her this.

(4) Shepard finds the Illusive Man (who is already there, as stated by the Prothean VI, despite the arguments that his being on the station is illogical). The Illusive Man begins to make the same arguments he put forth during the hallucination ending, but Shepard cuts him off, having already fought off Indoctrination in his mind and now being resistant to it.

(5) The Illusive Man then reveals that has become integrated with Reaper technology, and gives up all pretense of retaining free will. With help from the Keepers, he traps Shepard in a labyrinth-like area of the Citadel that has never before been seen (which seems possible to me, since nobody has ever discovered where the Keepers come from). As the Keepers rapidly construct and deconstruct obstacles around him, Shepard and company must defend themselves from attacks from husks (the Beam had been teleporting bodies into the Citadel, after all) while staying on the move to prevent from being killed by environmental hazards continually being put in his way by the Illusive Man.

(6) Shepard finally makes it to a command center of sorts, where the Illusive Man is at the controls. Here, the final boss fight occurs against the ally you left to die on Virmire, who is now, like Saren was, just a Reaper creature. (Saren recovered the body after he left Shepard, but before he fled Virmire. Sadly, this plot device would make much more sense if it were hinted at earlier). We know that the Reapers use this method as a means of psychological warfare (see Javik's story), and Saren could have ordered the Geth to pick up the body back then; furthermore, it was never proven that (s)he was killed outright. Sovereign may have ordered it dumped on the Citadel for later use in the Keeper-controlled areas, where it lay hidden after the battle of the Citadel. Such a boss fight could also include other sacrificed allies whom the Reapers could plausibly have recovered, as well as anyone who was on the Citadel; in my case, an Indoctrinated Aralakh Company could show up, along with those who aren't influenced by your choices (e.g. Commander Bailey). On a personal note, I don't feel that there necessarily needs to be a boss fight at all, but I guess a lot of people were expecting a showdown of some sorts (with Harbinger, mostly).

(7) Shepard kills Husk-Kaiden/Ashley and any other enemies. The Illusive Man is then killed, and he utters the same words and dies in the same fashion as he does in the hallucination ending.

(8) Shepard goes to the console, and realizes that the Catalyst is a machine (or VI, or AI?) that can command the Keepers, who are the only things who can put the finishing touches on the Crucible, which is why they needed the Citadel in the first place. Shepard is now given a choice as to what he can command the Keepers to do to the Crucible:

(9a) Shepard can cause the Crucible to destroy all advanced civilization in the galaxy. This will disable, but not destroy, the Mass Relays, by using dark energy to overload all existing technology and advancement, and killing anything alive or active relatively near by. The Reaper threat will be permanently eliminated as a result, but the only species that will survive are those that are still in the infancy of evolution. Thus, Shepard will sacrifice everything in the current cycle for the sake of all others who will exist in the future, to give them a future free of the Reapers forever. This is the original intended purpose of the Crucible. In this scenario, Shepard shares a moment with his love interest if she's with him, as they hold each other to the end.

(9b) Shepard can modify the Crucible to explode, thereby killing himself, all the people stranded in the system (Earth being the first to go), and the majority of the Reapers, which had come to defend the Citadel and assault Earth (as the Prothean VI put it, the Reapers have 'consolidated' their forces there). If he chooses this option, Shepard first gives Hackett the command to retreat, telling all friendly forces to get as far away from the Sol System as possible. In this way, Shepard tilts the war in their favor by essentially turning the Citadel into a simple bomb deployed in the center of the Reaper fleet. There should be an explanation (beyond simply genetic diversity, or at least elaborating on that point) as to why the Reapers valued Earth enough to focus their attention here. In this scenario, if Shepard's love interest is still alive, he contacts Joker or one of his surviving associates (Miranda or Jacob could be candidates) and asks them to make an emergency pickup at the Citadel. Before they finish discussing this, his love interest will beg him to take the shuttle instead of her so that he can escape while leaving her to finish the job. Shepard can use a renegade interrupt to force her onto the shuttle, or simply tell her to live for him. He may also choose to grant her request to stay with him, and they share a moment together before the end. On the other hand, if Anderson is still alive, he may be the one to stay behind, and he tells Shepard (and his love interest, if she's there) to lead humanity and ensure that the Reaper War does finally come to an end.


Just some brainstorms that I'll probably want to edit later, hope they add something of value to this discussion. Thanks again to Bioware for a great ride, and thanks to the community for making this sort of post-game movement a thought-provoking one.

+1!!!!!!!!

[TheMadLieut]

i'm talking right now with a friend of mine...and she said a very interesting thing:

in me2's dlc "the arrival" we have to destroy a mass realay to slow down the reapers...what did that cause? it cause the complete annihilation of that system...

in all me3's endings the mass relay will exploded...so...we've destroyed the entire galaxy in any case...right?

you really should not destroy the relay's net...that pretty useless an nonsense...

[Trojan_33]

Trojan_33 wrote...

I was expecting a boss battle with Harbinger, myself. Since they didn't give me one, I came up with an idea on my own. What do ya think?

TO EVERYONE WANTING A BATTLE WITH HARBINGER:

With the Geth Fighter mission and the Project Overlord DLC, interacting with an AI world is possible soooo...

Using Indoc Theory, relying on plot change back to Dark Energy stated by this guy (awesome overall info and ideas), how about there is no interface or protocols for using the weapon? An interface could be brought by Geth or from Citadel maintenance VI overwhelming Shepherd like in Overlord. She/he sees everything that the Citadel sees and he mentally projects (points gun if necessary to keep a mental handle on the situation) damage to a nearby Reaper, the crucible fires and immense blast that rips the Reaper in half.

(mentally projecting defense in form of shields) Reapers attacks against the crucible fail. Harbinger attaches himeself to the Citadel and then Shepherd and Harbinger dialogue and then fight in the virtual world. War assest and readiness come into play at a crucial moment, when Hackett notices the the crucible is no longer firing and commands all available fleets to attack harbinger while he's attached to citadel, at the same moment Harbinger is winning the virtual world fight but if he is damaged significantly he can't maintain his virtual attacks on Shepherd.

Insert awesome quotes, fight sequences/moments, and there ya go.

THOUGHTS??

ADDENDUM:

In the crucial moment when Harbinger gets the upper hand, if you don't have many war assets Harbinger pounces on you and then stabs you in the gut with a tentacle. He then lifts you up in front of him and starts taunting again...you know along the lines of, "your attempts of defeating us have been admirable but you are still insignificant. I might actually acquire the feeling of pleasure harvesting your kind.."
IF YOU HAVE ALOT OF RENEGADE POINTS (no paragon option) you get a dialogue option of..
"Well, you know what? *cough/spit up some blood*" Camera pans down to the left hand, shows another pistol being digitally constructed.

Harbinger: "What? human.."

Shepherd:"F---- YOU!" Shepherd yanks up both pistols and the skymap returns and he/she starts unloading on all the nearby Reapers with both pistols. Cutscene to crucible glowing bright then unleashing a massive amount of energy beams destroying 20+ Reapers.

Harbinger: "RAAAAAAGH!" Then it rips you in half. At this point if you had enough Assets Hackett order the fleet that was engaged with those Reaper to take out Harbinger. Fleet moves in and proceeds to finish blowing him up in dramatic fashion.

Modifié par Trojan_33, 21 mars 2012 - 02:57 .

[Hanabii]

Most people love Bioware. We have had bad endings before, many times. Fallout 3, Many Survival Horror Games, Dreamfall. The fans that couldn't handle the ending moved on or chose to bide it.

Fallout 3's ending got minor complaint, but in a later DLC they fixed their ending which caused a surge of sales for the main fallout 3 title as well.

When a gamer doesn't care, and the ending is bad, they move on. They don't complain, they don't spend hours upon hours, days and weeks on the forums trying to get the company to fix it.

The Problem with Mass Effect 3's ending isn't the fact it's 'sad' or anything, but nonsensical.



Bellow are a list of the plot holes in the ending. These plot holes are the major focal points of players complaints, arguements and the grounds behind everyone's displeasure. They are the centerpoints that need clerification.



1: Joker would have to abandon the fight before Shepard reached the Catalyst to get ahead of the blasts and relays.

2: If the relays all blew and would damage the Normandy forcing it to crash, wouldn't being in the middle of it result in EVERY fleet you gathered to be destroyed in one instance no matter what ending you chose?

3: The Logic of the Phantom dubbed by game fans as "Star Child" is mired in self contradiction it's basically "To stop synthetics from wiping out all live we designed synthetics to wipe out all live every 50k years." However even if it isn't ALL LIFE DESTROYED, the fact is that the entire Geth/Quarian Arc proves that wrong. When the Geth could have wiped out the Quarian people they didn't. The Geth Enemies in the first and Second Game were under direct influence of the Reapers WHOM I might add were supposed to stop the Synthetics destroy organics cycle by Star Child's Logic.

4: Shepard blindly taking options which would compromise EVERYTHING done leading up to the game. With Synthases Ending Shepard takes away the rights of organic species to shape their own path by forcing their evolution. (Which Shepard, Renegade or Paragon stood against in earlier entries.) Control Ending Shepard forces his own will into the Reapers justifying the Illusive Man, his methods, and basically enslaving the reapers. Destroy Ending (The most likely for any Shepard.) Shepard destroys the reapers however in doing so he either A: Destroys the earth (Bad ending, and perfectly fine for a bad ending because clearly everything died. That's closure.) Or B: Destroys ALL Synthetic Life. Betraying the Geth, Betraying EDI (His companion who is a trusted member of the crew.) Based on the logic of a being filled with self contradiction.

5: If you do choose the destroy option and EDI is with you as a companion for the final mission she appears with you at the final moments before the beam hits you and the Citadel thing, AND appears with Joker at the ending. However if she is not with you then she only shows up on the Synthases ending. Meaning Joker Picked up your crew, flew the Normandy as fast as possible to a Mass Relay and fled the battle while Shepard was carving out victory. Which leads to problem 6.

6: Even your shuttle Pilot Cortez who is the best 'insertion pilot' around either dies or is blown up. Shepard early in the mission is confirmed that He/she WON'T be given any Air Support and that Normandy is flying along side the fleet to fight the Dreadnaught Reapers in space meaning LOGICALLY Joker wouldn't be able to make it from the space battle to the ground location and team, back to space, then to the relay all in the same fifteen minutes it takes Shepard in the Citidel.

7: Let's assume you let all the above facts slide, Mass Relay Travel is not instant. ME1 'Drift, just under 1500K.' And a long scene with Nhilus, Shepard wandering Normandy, ETC. Then the ending with Ilos where Shepard has Final Romantic Time with his loved one or a full sleep (If no romance is taken). HOWEVER The beams from the Crucible which destroy the Relays do travel INSTANTLY along the line. Meaning even if Joker had hit the Relay first the beam would have hit him, gone through him and his ship instantly, and hit 5 other relays before he'd hit the first junction. Second Possibility is he took to Faster then Light Travel to escape. At which point there would be no livable planets track-able.

8: Wait, I mention Control, Synthases and Destroy Endings, where is the other 13 endings we where promised. 12 if you include the variable on the destroy ending where the earth is destroyed?

9: Where is the closure promised? What about aftermath? Who survived? What happened with the various peoples after your choices effecting the ENTIRE galaxy happened? What is the fate of the Krogan, Geth, Quarians and many MANY others who allied with you? Apparently your crew abandoned you at the final gate.

10: The only LOGICAL conclusion that holds with the various facts confirmed by people is an Indoctrination Theory in which the ENTIRE ending is a scene to pacify Shepard's will so the reapers can take control.

11: There's a hallway filled with human corpses... and the corpses of your crew (Bad ending only.) Anderson had your back on the way in, but somehow he's ahead of you. Somehow the Illusive Man is already there. Greeting you. A forced confrontation with no idea how the peaces got into place. Much like a game of Chess where you re-arrange the board while the other person is looking away. So badly they know things are out of place. I could split this into 4 different flaws.

12: You're finally past that part, you're barely alive. Hacket is like "Shepard we connected it but we don't know how to activate it, Look for a button!" Not those words but basically they plugged the thing in not even knowning how to activate it DESPITE the fact they built it from scratch by BLUEPRINT!

13: When Shepard tries to get to the panel and collapses he/she falls face down onto a Magic Elevator that somehow lifts him skywards (Where there was only ceiling but we'll forgive because it's a sci-fi and ceilings do open.) "So, the Citadel has a magic elevator just sitting a few feet away from the panel set to activate when someone falls down bleeding upon it?" Or does the Catalyst magically somehow lift you OUTDOORS into a space shown in the cut-scenes as being in open space? (Mass Effect fields are confirmed in the codex in other areas to not seal or stop air. Otherwise your shields would suffocate you in seconds.)

14: Since the Citadel was taken to earth by the Reapers somehow, it makes you wonder, what happened to all the people on the Citadel? That hallway of corpses only had dead humans. Did they evacuate? Where was the closure on that?

These are the flaws with the ending as they are most apparent. Everything else in the series had logical endings, logical followups. It didn't destroy it's own continuity and was plain epic.

Notice 'It was sad' was NOT one of the reasons listed. And every time people make a list like that it's basically these points. Most people don't like the Machiavelli style Hard to Port the plot took for the darker in the last bit, however, I would also say that at least Machiavelli would make sure his plot still connects to the logic of the book.

It would be like Romeo and Juliette ending with them living happily after, AFTER they drank the poison and died!
It would be like Star Wars if the ending consisted of the Second Death Star blowing up Endor AFTER it was destroyed.
It would be like Planet of the Apes where the main characters fly back to a normal earth AFTER finding out that the Ape World is in fact Earth many many many years in the future.

People are right not to like this ending, but the fact people haven't walked off, and stopped caring means that people still love Bioware and want Bioware to make it right. On every taken poll from people who complain EVERY one would be gladly willing to pay for a DLC to fix the ending. I know I would.

If Bioware needs money to make a better ending, its true fans, the ones who actually care enough to ask them to write with integrity are willing to foot the bill.

FINAL NOTE: For an ending to make sense, it would have to resolve the above errors logically. And the only way many people can see that being done is vie the Indoctrination Theory which has been shared by MANY MANY people.

---

My own version of the Indoctrination Theory.

The whole game Commander Shepard was getting more and more stressed, as time went on she became less and less 'human'. In a way.

When you first get onto the Citadel it feels like a dream. You're crawling through a hallway of your own dead. Mysteriously faced with the Illusive man with no hint at how he got there. When he commands you, you put a
bullet in Anderson and are using all your might to resist.

The bodies are like the phantoms in her dreams that she'd been having. They didn't seem real. Her mental state is weakened by blood loss, consistent exposure to indoctrination. They might not have even been real.

Let's use other examples of other people who'd felt it.

Saren said Indoctrination was subtle and crafty. The Illusive Man didn't even know he was indoctrinated unless you Paragon'd the HELL out of him. Rana Thanoptist (Get out of here before I blow up Vermire Girl.) who had
a weak mind committed suicide after even her relatively small exposure compared to Shepard. Shialla (Green Girl) was only freed from it by the effects of the Thorien and was Mindlinked to the Feros Collenists who
made a suprising effective force. I believe Shialla's mind-link allowed other's minds to stabilize and counter re-indoctrination, that and the exposure to the Thorian's mind.

Shepard in the dream chases the kid, a dream that started as Post Traumatic Stress from watching a kid
die, a cross of guilt to bare. But as the game went on Shepard kept being exposed to the Reapers more and more and more, destroying them, getting close. Others even with no reapers around were getting taken
over and killing each other.

In the dark dream Shepard is warned, as she runs chasing the phantom she sees herself hugging the child,
smiling creepily as they both burn, a forewarning of what lies ahead. That the reapers are riding on an image of her guilt as 'The Catalyst' of her indoctrination.

"Good Endings." -
Finally Shepard stands at the end face to face with her nightmarish guilt. Having made
it so far only through the will to beat the reapers. She is offered three choices by the Catalyst.

One is to Control the Reapers, to become them. However as I was hinted, she is indoctrinated herself in
the final throws. This destroys the Mass Relays and causes the reapers to withdraw.

Second is the Biomerge of Technology using her as the Palate. Everyone in the universe is made into a Cyborg. Including Synthetics who are Augmented with organic. The Reapers Withdraw.

The Last is to carry on strong, We win or we die! You destroy the reapers
once and for all. However the cost will be the death of the Geth (Who would willingly make the sacrifice to save organics if you persuaded them.) and EDI (Who was always ready to die to help Shepard.)

The Catch 22.
I theorize the Catalyst ISN'T what it seems. It the Catalyst of Shepard's Indoctrination. That in each ending Shepard does not die a true death.

Ending
1 and 2, Shepard's mind is overthrown, Shepard is indoctrinated and is now controlled, Shepard thinks (S)he is dead. Now a tool of the reapers who is still alive. The Mass Relays are gone, but the reapers are infinitely patient and truly unknowable.

The Illusive Man's path of control means Shepard didn't stop the reapers and now the universe
is stuck without the Mass Relays and the reapers are infinitely patient.

The Biomerge Path, means all life has been given the ideal form for indoctrination of all. Shepard's indoctrinated energy is in all life, organic or not. And the reapers are a part of everyone now. Allowing them to begin a mass indoctrination beyond scale.

The Destruction Path, Shepard destroys the reapers. Overcoming the indoctrination.
Waking up amidst the rubble on earth. (Shep is a sturdy SOB to take so much damage.) The Indoctrination attempt failed Shepard's conviction held through to the end and even in an unstable condition Shepard was
able to hold to "We fight or we die."

Both other endings Shepard stops fighting and sees Her/Himself die. Stop fighting and die. However is Shepard dead? Or is Shepard walking indoctrinated while the true ending is under design?

"The Bad Ending" -
Shepard quickly before everyone is ready, before the Crucible is perfected rushes to fight the reapers. The Crucible is incapable of the Technomerge and Outright Indoctrinating Shepard isn't an option.

With some Resistance left (Due to shorter exposure time) Shepard destroys the reapers, the unfinished Crucible destroys the planet, the reapers, everyone on earth and Shepard. Shepard never gave into the Indoctrination and was too strong at the time to ever do so. Too much resistance left.

---
The Joker Vision

A final glimpse at what is going on, Joker crashing down somewhere. Is it a vision to placate Shepard? Is Joker lost and stranded with a need to be picked up?

---

The Possible Future.
"Can you tell me another story about the Shepherd?"

At some point Shepard is required, if (s)he is indoctrinated (Blue/Green) Ending. She awakens to learn the reapers are still out there. That doom is still upon them. And that through the sacrifices of others His/Her
indoctrination was broken.

If Shepard destroyed the Reapers, Shepard awakens. Having destroyed the Reapers and fought off the
Indoctrination. The Reaper Tech is gone. However Shepard is alive. (Shepard is very largely Cyborg, grey muscles, wires, AKA Lazarus Project Cyborg.) Meaning that the Geth also possibly survived.

The new Mission Either way involves coping with the change to the universe. Tracking down the lost. Picking up the peaces and building a new path.

"I need to find my people.", "I need to know that (Love Interest) is okay." At your side you have your people. "I need to get the Quarian's Home." "Wrex's Family needs him." "The Asari need to return to Thessia."

"We are all together now, our enemy is gone, but we are stranded away from home. We need to rebuild, but we, all the people of this Galaxy, stand together to rebuild. We will do on our own what we always have. We will
forge our own path."

Always remember it is a vast universe, there is still Dark Energy out there. There is still many enemies waiting in
the universe. What new threats await when the Mass Relays aren't around to guide you?

Modifié par Hanabii, 21 mars 2012 - 03:26 .

[Bellendaine]

Ricvenart wrote...

I leave the exact details to you but give a few minor things I'd like to see.
Post Shepard waking up (be it in a hospital or rubble): Additional game play, dialogue with crew on the way to the new end and extended "real" talk with Anderson. And maybe a touch more with the LI would be nice but not required. (MShep/Kaidan actually getting to exchange I love you's and can't bare to lose you again would be nice, think the dialogue is there and could be really moving, even required to reaffirm the finality of it all).

I agree with this a lot.  As a gay player, I'm thrilled my Shep's pining away for Kaidan finally paid off, I didn't feel like it was enough time in the romance.  At least one more scene (or a paid DLC, which I'd gladly buy) with the LI's would be great (not just MShep/Kaidan, of course, but for all LIs).

And then more closure at the end, other than "I'll never know what I missed" and "We both know this is the end," which is horribly bleak.

Especially if you're determined to end Shep's story with ME3, which, I think is foolish since the character is so popular and so much more steam in him, as it were.  You could get at least one or two more stories with this character ...

[yellodogue]

Hi,

I am normally a lurker and vary rarely post. However, having played through once and seeing the end, and the abruptness of it, perhaps a "to be continued" should have been in order, I think?
Also, I abhor MP mode and will never play it, that is what an MMO is for. My first play through in SP mode I could only get just over 7500 which ems <4000. My next playthrough if/when it occurs will be with hacked war assets to double their norm, giving me an approx 100% - very unhappy to be doing this as it changes the integrity of the game and myself, but please, even 75% would be appreciated, without having to hack a game or play MP.

I thoroughly enjoyed most of the game, and the conversations even though the side "pickup" quests through eavesdropping seemed rather addon and lazy but i accept them due to the rich content elsewhere.

I am VERY happy to see Dr Ray commenting on future possibilities to address the endings issue. While yes, it would be nice to see Shepard live, it is not a requirement and her death would allow for the ultimate self sacrifice, just make it optional. The rest of the ending - very abrupt, "what just happened" and "where did that come from", (ghost child? normandy? destruction of mass relays? etc). Again, if this was all a dream/indoctrination or something else, perhaps a "To be Continued" would have been in order. If it's none of the above, I honestly do not know what to say other than I'm very disappointed.

I am going to restart from ME1, create a new character and perhaps by the time I get to ME3, there will be something out that will provide closure for Shepard and HER squad.

Waiting patiently...

[Alsuras]

Here's a copy and paste from another thread I just posted in, which I feel I should put here.

"He [Ray] makes some awful, awful statements in that post. His opening paragraph, to me reads like "We don't -want- to acknowledge that we put out a plot hold riddled ending that was directly contradictory to what we promised our fans, but I suppose we have to now." Pointing to the high ratings offered by critics is all well and good, but the critics aren't the people you need to please, your fans are. And you have clearly failed in this to a large degree.

The entire post was more wishy-washy then I'm willing to accept. Don't try and make sense of the nonsensical. If you can actually make the starchilds circular logic make sense without introducing more plot holes, well done, I don't think you can. Because that entire scene is a betrayal of Shepard's character throughout the entire series on top of the awful logic presented to your fans who's intellect you have vastly underestimated if you think you can pass that off as deep and meaningful.

I personally don't want to have the existing endings explained to me, because that's insulting. That implies that they already make sense and we're just not clever enough to get it. The endings are junk, they are bad from a literary and objective standpoint.

Give us what we're asking for, alternatives, not more BS explanation for that which you understandably cannot admit is rubbish this early on."

So, there we are. Give us alternatives.

[atis]

just read the indoc theory on game front I suport it and I so wish it was true. the greatest mind f**K of all time.
and I belive people should see this so http://www.gamefront...rination-theory

[Rustcify]

Scathelock wrote...

My two cents.

Concise version:
canon ending holds that Shepard fights off Indoctrination (as seen
during the current ending with Destroy option), wakes up in the rubble.
Fights Harbinger with allies and war assets, goes up to Citadel (with
love interest if there there is one). There, he kills Illusive Man,
discovers that Catalyst is means of ordering Keepers to finish
(building/programming) Crucible. Crucible's primary function is to
destroy all advanced civilization in galaxy, destroying all Reapers and
sacrificing all the developed races but leaving undeveloped ones
untouched, which will evolve in coming centuries. Shepard becomes both
destroyer and savior of galaxy.

Long description:
The Crucible is something that has been in the works for many cycles.
It makes sense to me, then, that everyone who worked on it had to think
about what it was meant to do - not simply saving themselves, or their
planet, or their people, or even the current iteration of the cycle: it
should mean saving the galaxy from the Reapers, and by extension, from
the terrible cycle of Reaping. Everyone is fighting against the Reapers
knowing that they may have to give up their lives; for many of them,
that's the greatest sacrifice they may be called on to make. But my
Shepard isn't like them; he got where he was by looking at abstract
values, by focusing on what's important beyond the here and now. He's no
longer just a commander of the human Alliance now, he's essentially the
commander of the entire galaxy. He has to be willing to make the hard
choices, like he told Vega and Garrus, by sacrificing those fighting
with him. The ultimate cost, then, is that all advanced civilization in
the galaxy must be destroyed (as collateral damage caused by the
Crucible in wiping out the the Reapers, while leaving untouched any
infant alien races that haven't evolved), in order to give future
civilizations a life without fear of being Reaped.


If Bioware never released another DLC, my own imagined "canon" ending might be as follows:

(1)
Shepard fights off Indoctrination by choosing the Destroy option (as
played through my current ending) and awakens in the rubble of London.

(2)
Joker, Cortez, surviving associates and other war assets (e.g. the
Rachni Queen, who I'd been expecting to make a combat appearance) come
in to distract or fight off Harbinger, who is still there defending the
Beam. People will die, and Shepard has some choice in deciding who takes
the brunt of Harbinger's fire. This gives Shepard the chance to make it
to the portal.

(3) With Harbinger temporarily disabled/crippled,
Shepard ascends to the Citadel, possibly with allies and/or Anderson
(and if the Normandy makes a crash landing, you can choose your
teammates from the survivors). If there is one and (s)he is alive,
Shepard's love interest should briefly request to accompany him, though
you can deny her this.

(4) Shepard finds the Illusive Man (who is
already there, as stated by the Prothean VI, despite the arguments that
his being on the station is illogical). The Illusive Man begins to make
the same arguments he put forth during the hallucination ending, but
Shepard cuts him off, having already fought off Indoctrination in his
mind and now being resistant to it.

(5) The Illusive Man then
reveals that has become integrated with Reaper technology, and gives up
all pretense of retaining free will. With help from the Keepers, he
traps Shepard in a labyrinth-like area of the Citadel that has never
before been seen (which seems possible to me, since nobody has ever
discovered where the Keepers come from). As the Keepers rapidly
construct and deconstruct obstacles around him, Shepard and company must
defend themselves from attacks from husks (the Beam had been
teleporting bodies into the Citadel, after all) while staying on the
move to prevent from being killed by environmental hazards continually
being put in his way by the Illusive Man.

(6) Shepard finally
makes it to a command center of sorts, where the Illusive Man is at the
controls. Here, the final boss fight occurs against the ally you left to
die on Virmire, who is now, like Saren was, just a Reaper creature.
(Saren recovered the body after he left Shepard, but before he fled
Virmire. Sadly, this plot device would make much more sense if it were
hinted at earlier). We know that the Reapers use this method as a means
of psychological warfare (see Javik's story), and Saren could have
ordered the Geth to pick up the body back then; furthermore, it was
never proven that (s)he was killed outright. Sovereign may have ordered
it dumped on the Citadel for later use in the Keeper-controlled areas,
where it lay hidden after the battle of the Citadel. Such a boss fight
could also include other sacrificed allies whom the Reapers could
plausibly have recovered, as well as anyone who was on the Citadel; in
my case, an Indoctrinated Aralakh Company could show up, along with
those who aren't influenced by your choices (e.g. Commander Bailey). On a
personal note, I don't feel that there necessarily needs to be a boss
fight at all, but I guess a lot of people were expecting a showdown of
some sorts (with Harbinger, mostly).

(7) Shepard kills
Husk-Kaiden/Ashley and any other enemies. The Illusive Man is then
killed, and he utters the same words and dies in the same fashion as he
does in the hallucination ending.

(8) Shepard goes to the
console, and realizes that the Catalyst is a machine (or VI, or AI?)
that can command the Keepers, who are the only things who can put the
finishing touches on the Crucible, which is why they needed the Citadel
in the first place. Shepard is now given a choice as to what he can
command the Keepers to do to the Crucible:

(9a) Shepard can cause
the Crucible to destroy all advanced civilization in the galaxy. This
will disable, but not destroy, the Mass Relays, by using dark energy to
overload all existing technology and advancement, and killing anything
alive or active relatively near by. The Reaper threat will be
permanently eliminated as a result, but the only species that will
survive are those that are still in the infancy of evolution. Thus,
Shepard will sacrifice everything in the current cycle for the sake of
all others who will exist in the future, to give them a future free of
the Reapers forever. This is the original intended purpose of the
Crucible. In this scenario, Shepard shares a moment with his love
interest if she's with him, as they hold each other to the end.

(9b)
Shepard can modify the Crucible to explode, thereby killing himself,
all the people stranded in the system (Earth being the first to go), and
the majority of the Reapers, which had come to defend the Citadel and
assault Earth (as the Prothean VI put it, the Reapers have
'consolidated' their forces there). If he chooses this option, Shepard
first gives Hackett the command to retreat, telling all friendly forces
to get as far away from the Sol System as possible. In this way, Shepard
tilts the war in their favor by essentially turning the Citadel into a
simple bomb deployed in the center of the Reaper fleet. There should be
an explanation (beyond simply genetic diversity, or at least elaborating
on that point) as to why the Reapers valued Earth enough to focus their
attention here. In this scenario, if Shepard's love interest is still
alive, he contacts Joker or one of his surviving associates (Miranda or
Jacob could be candidates) and asks them to make an emergency pickup at
the Citadel. Before they finish discussing this, his love interest will
beg him to take the shuttle instead of her so that he can escape while
leaving her to finish the job. Shepard can use a renegade interrupt to
force her onto the shuttle, or simply tell her to live for him. He may
also choose to grant her request to stay with him, and they share a
moment together before the end. On the other hand, if Anderson is still
alive, he may be the one to stay behind, and he tells Shepard (and his
love interest, if she's there) to lead humanity and ensure that the
Reaper War does finally come to an end.


Just some brainstorms
that I'll probably want to edit later, hope they add something of value
to this discussion. Thanks again to Bioware for a great ride, and
thanks to the community for making this sort of post-game movement a
thought-provoking one.

^^ this  +100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

and

> Will like to see an end for Harbinger , or anything instead of just mere 'total reaper annihilation' as he is the one who bugged us for like a game and 'Arrival'  
> Will like to see answers and more closure for the trilogy instead of just plain speculation on our part
> Squadmates closure (God , we spent 3 games >bout 40hours each game with them. I deserve to know what happen to them)
> Impact of our war assets  (Eg. How does it impact if we spared the Rachni queen or not instead of just the mere +(100 or 150) strength to our war assets)
>Illusive man downfall is meh. Would really like him to shoot himself
>Closure of the races. Geth with Quarians , Krogans with Turians ,( maybe Salarians) , Batarians building up ect.ect.


>Make blue babies with Liara



And please , don't charge us for this 'expansion' you're planning. We , fans, deserve a proper conclusion. Don't make me regret buying the collector's edition of the game. If I would get charged for an ENDING , I don't mind an EXPANSION or DLC , I would have just pirate the game. But I chose to support bioware (screw you ea)

And maybe you guys should spend less on Marketing (WHO NEEDS TO MARKET ME3? I mean what?)  and more on CGIs for the ending (War assets fighting ect.)

Overall great work on the game , character dialoge , Geths - Quarians history , Krogan - turian history . Combat is fun  , multiplayer is fun but plagued with issues on the PS3 tho

Modifié par Rustcify, 21 mars 2012 - 03:48 .

[desirearune]

Apart from saving the galaxy... I though the reason I came back alive in me2 after the suicide mission where I lost so many team mates was so I can see my little blue asari kids .... can I least have a picture of what could have been ? plz

[Lunarwhirlwind]

When all this backlash began to occur I immediately felt bad for the many artists who worked very hard on this franchise. It is very hard to heard such intense upset over something you had a hand in. Especially from a group that, for awhile, forgot to point out that they absolutely loved the rest of the game.

Despite the high critic scores, even to say 'our most passionate fans' is almost as much an insult as it is a compliment. For most of us, its not that we wanted a specific ending, it is simply that we wanted an actual ending. While it is potentially true that a new gamer may have looked at the ending and went oh, "I did all of that and now this is my choice? Well it resolved nothing but it was a good game at least"; those gamers who have been with you from ME2 on start asking the questions that you've heard a million times already.
It is difficult to go through the game and be in awe of the scripting, the story, and the scope, only to get to the end and wonder what happened to the forethought and depth.

This response from Ray makes it seem as though there was no thought forethought or even consideration that the end may upset people ( and I dont mean, because its not happy). Which despite his words devalues a lot of the artistic brilliance of this games design and writing team in and of itself.


SUGGESTION AS TO HOW DLC COULD FIT

To me it feels as though the game had already been pushed back once and there could be no more date changes, regardless of game completion, so the ending got put together quickly. What people feel, very acutely, is that a chunk of game is just plain missing. Doesn't matter if it its ending videos that indicate how the rest of your crew and the galaxy got on with their lives after the crucible fired, (ie. are the quarians adapting, maybe seeing all of them without suits on rannoch) or a true final battle. One that occurs when your squad mates pass through the beam to finish what Shep started and then come back and pull Shep out of the rubble if he/she survived or do a funeral send off if not. Followed by the ending vids of what happened with the galaxy, a showing of Liaras "written in the stars" and then the scene with the grandfather telling the story.

[1490]

After the address by Dr. Ray, an astute poster wrote this on the response thread:

ArthurBDD wrote...

This is a huge step in the right direction.

A (hopefully spoiler-free) suggestion: since maintaining the team's artistic integrity is important to Bioware, but at the same time they want to meet most of the criticisms made of it, I'd suggest the best way is to retain the current ending choice but add more choices.

Specifically, add a choice where Shepard can either accept the logic presented to him at the end of the game, or reject it; accepting it would lead to the choices as they currently stand, rejecting it would lead down a different path crafted by the player feedback received so far.

I think this would be a fairly elegant solution, not least because the decision to accept or reject the logic presented by the final NPC would neatly parallel the player's own decision to either see the ending the dev team had in mind or go for an ending based off the ideas of the community as a whole. Those satisfied with the current ending have their preference supported, many of those who are not currently satisfied would love to be able to say in-game "Nuh-uh, it is NOT going down like this!", and the work done on the current ending need not be wasted.

This is my sentiment exactly. As a writer myself, I respect the writers' decision to end the story as they see fit. I would also be upset if someone told me to change a story I wrote if I saw it as perfect already. However, ME is not a simple story: it is extremely interactive and must account for choices.

My suggestion: I agree with ArthurBDD in that we can both preserve the "artistic integrity" of the game AND give many fans what they want by simply offering additional choices at the end.

[Lunarwhirlwind]

Rustcify wrote...

Scathelock wrote...

My two cents.

Concise version:
canon ending holds that Shepard fights off Indoctrination (as seen
during the current ending with Destroy option), wakes up in the rubble.
Fights Harbinger with allies and war assets, goes up to Citadel (with
love interest if there there is one). There, he kills Illusive Man,
discovers that Catalyst is means of ordering Keepers to finish
(building/programming) Crucible. Crucible's primary function is to
destroy all advanced civilization in galaxy, destroying all Reapers and
sacrificing all the developed races but leaving undeveloped ones
untouched, which will evolve in coming centuries. Shepard becomes both
destroyer and savior of galaxy.

Long description:
The Crucible is something that has been in the works for many cycles.
It makes sense to me, then, that everyone who worked on it had to think
about what it was meant to do - not simply saving themselves, or their
planet, or their people, or even the current iteration of the cycle: it
should mean saving the galaxy from the Reapers, and by extension, from
the terrible cycle of Reaping. Everyone is fighting against the Reapers
knowing that they may have to give up their lives; for many of them,
that's the greatest sacrifice they may be called on to make. But my
Shepard isn't like them; he got where he was by looking at abstract
values, by focusing on what's important beyond the here and now. He's no
longer just a commander of the human Alliance now, he's essentially the
commander of the entire galaxy. He has to be willing to make the hard
choices, like he told Vega and Garrus, by sacrificing those fighting
with him. The ultimate cost, then, is that all advanced civilization in
the galaxy must be destroyed (as collateral damage caused by the
Crucible in wiping out the the Reapers, while leaving untouched any
infant alien races that haven't evolved), in order to give future
civilizations a life without fear of being Reaped.


If Bioware never released another DLC, my own imagined "canon" ending might be as follows:

(1)
Shepard fights off Indoctrination by choosing the Destroy option (as
played through my current ending) and awakens in the rubble of London.

(2)
Joker, Cortez, surviving associates and other war assets (e.g. the
Rachni Queen, who I'd been expecting to make a combat appearance) come
in to distract or fight off Harbinger, who is still there defending the
Beam. People will die, and Shepard has some choice in deciding who takes
the brunt of Harbinger's fire. This gives Shepard the chance to make it
to the portal.

(3) With Harbinger temporarily disabled/crippled,
Shepard ascends to the Citadel, possibly with allies and/or Anderson
(and if the Normandy makes a crash landing, you can choose your
teammates from the survivors). If there is one and (s)he is alive,
Shepard's love interest should briefly request to accompany him, though
you can deny her this.

(4) Shepard finds the Illusive Man (who is
already there, as stated by the Prothean VI, despite the arguments that
his being on the station is illogical). The Illusive Man begins to make
the same arguments he put forth during the hallucination ending, but
Shepard cuts him off, having already fought off Indoctrination in his
mind and now being resistant to it.

(5) The Illusive Man then
reveals that has become integrated with Reaper technology, and gives up
all pretense of retaining free will. With help from the Keepers, he
traps Shepard in a labyrinth-like area of the Citadel that has never
before been seen (which seems possible to me, since nobody has ever
discovered where the Keepers come from). As the Keepers rapidly
construct and deconstruct obstacles around him, Shepard and company must
defend themselves from attacks from husks (the Beam had been
teleporting bodies into the Citadel, after all) while staying on the
move to prevent from being killed by environmental hazards continually
being put in his way by the Illusive Man.

(6) Shepard finally
makes it to a command center of sorts, where the Illusive Man is at the
controls. Here, the final boss fight occurs against the ally you left to
die on Virmire, who is now, like Saren was, just a Reaper creature.
(Saren recovered the body after he left Shepard, but before he fled
Virmire. Sadly, this plot device would make much more sense if it were
hinted at earlier). We know that the Reapers use this method as a means
of psychological warfare (see Javik's story), and Saren could have
ordered the Geth to pick up the body back then; furthermore, it was
never proven that (s)he was killed outright. Sovereign may have ordered
it dumped on the Citadel for later use in the Keeper-controlled areas,
where it lay hidden after the battle of the Citadel. Such a boss fight
could also include other sacrificed allies whom the Reapers could
plausibly have recovered, as well as anyone who was on the Citadel; in
my case, an Indoctrinated Aralakh Company could show up, along with
those who aren't influenced by your choices (e.g. Commander Bailey). On a
personal note, I don't feel that there necessarily needs to be a boss
fight at all, but I guess a lot of people were expecting a showdown of
some sorts (with Harbinger, mostly).

(7) Shepard kills
Husk-Kaiden/Ashley and any other enemies. The Illusive Man is then
killed, and he utters the same words and dies in the same fashion as he
does in the hallucination ending.

(8) Shepard goes to the
console, and realizes that the Catalyst is a machine (or VI, or AI?)
that can command the Keepers, who are the only things who can put the
finishing touches on the Crucible, which is why they needed the Citadel
in the first place. Shepard is now given a choice as to what he can
command the Keepers to do to the Crucible:

(9a) Shepard can cause
the Crucible to destroy all advanced civilization in the galaxy. This
will disable, but not destroy, the Mass Relays, by using dark energy to
overload all existing technology and advancement, and killing anything
alive or active relatively near by. The Reaper threat will be
permanently eliminated as a result, but the only species that will
survive are those that are still in the infancy of evolution. Thus,
Shepard will sacrifice everything in the current cycle for the sake of
all others who will exist in the future, to give them a future free of
the Reapers forever. This is the original intended purpose of the
Crucible. In this scenario, Shepard shares a moment with his love
interest if she's with him, as they hold each other to the end.

(9b)
Shepard can modify the Crucible to explode, thereby killing himself,
all the people stranded in the system (Earth being the first to go), and
the majority of the Reapers, which had come to defend the Citadel and
assault Earth (as the Prothean VI put it, the Reapers have
'consolidated' their forces there). If he chooses this option, Shepard
first gives Hackett the command to retreat, telling all friendly forces
to get as far away from the Sol System as possible. In this way, Shepard
tilts the war in their favor by essentially turning the Citadel into a
simple bomb deployed in the center of the Reaper fleet. There should be
an explanation (beyond simply genetic diversity, or at least elaborating
on that point) as to why the Reapers valued Earth enough to focus their
attention here. In this scenario, if Shepard's love interest is still
alive, he contacts Joker or one of his surviving associates (Miranda or
Jacob could be candidates) and asks them to make an emergency pickup at
the Citadel. Before they finish discussing this, his love interest will
beg him to take the shuttle instead of her so that he can escape while
leaving her to finish the job. Shepard can use a renegade interrupt to
force her onto the shuttle, or simply tell her to live for him. He may
also choose to grant her request to stay with him, and they share a
moment together before the end. On the other hand, if Anderson is still
alive, he may be the one to stay behind, and he tells Shepard (and his
love interest, if she's there) to lead humanity and ensure that the
Reaper War does finally come to an end.


Just some brainstorms
that I'll probably want to edit later, hope they add something of value
to this discussion. Thanks again to Bioware for a great ride, and
thanks to the community for making this sort of post-game movement a
thought-provoking one.

^^ this  +100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

and

> Will like to see an end for Harbinger , or anything instead of just mere 'total reaper annihilation' as he is the one who bugged us for like a game and 'Arrival'  
> Will like to see answers and more closure for the trilogy instead of just plain speculation on our part
> Squadmates closure (God , we spent 3 games >bout 40hours each game with them. I deserve to know what happen to them)
> Impact of our war assets  (Eg. How does it impact if we spared the Rachni queen or not instead of just the mere +(100 or 150) strength to our war assets)
>Illusive man downfall is meh. Would really like him to shoot himself
>Closure of the races. Geth with Quarians , Krogans with Turians ,( maybe Salarians) , Batarians building up ect.ect.


>Make blue babies with Liara



And please , don't charge us for this 'expansion' you're planning. We , fans, deserve a proper conclusion. Don't make me regret buying the collector's edition of the game. If I would get charged for an ENDING , I don't mind an EXPANSION or DLC , I would have just pirate the game. But I chose to support bioware (screw you ea)

And maybe you guys should spend less on Marketing (WHO NEEDS TO MARKET ME3? I mean what?)  and more on CGIs for the ending (War assets fighting ect.)

Overall great work on the game , character dialoge , Geths - Quarians history , Krogan - turian history . Combat is fun  , multiplayer is fun but plagued with issues on the PS3 tho

Although, Something to this effect is pretty damn amazing.

[TSC_1]

Given Dr. Muzyka's recent blog statement, I want to make it very clear that we don't just want the current endings explained. That isn't good enough. The problem isn't that they're unclear; despite what many are saying, we actually do understand them, and we do understand what Bioware was trying to do with them. The problem is that they're bad. They make no sense. They do not fit with the rest of the series thematically. They destroy the Mass Effect fictional universe.

We do not want the endings explained. We want the endings removed and replaced. Anything less than that is not good enough.

[ajunta_]

Concerning the latest Ray Muzyka's statement: we fear that the message of a statement was that we will recieve "clarification" to the existing ending, but we don't really want that ending to be clarified, we want the new endings which make sense and depend on our actions.

[mitsos96]

The endings were devastating there is no question about that. Closure is the most important part of the end of the trilogy yet there was none to be found.

Personally I don't subscribe to the "it was all a dream" /indoctrination theory. I think that joker wasn't in transit between relays but just flying away from the original boom in FTL speeds.
The appearence of shepard breathing on the ruins (of London?) could be the result of the starchild beaming him back before the explosion took place. I'm just speculating here.

However please,PLEASE:
1. don't destroy the relays cause that means that half the galaxy dies in that instant and the survivors are cut off at the point they were without hope of moving on.
2. Give a DA:Origins type of slideshow in the end showing us the results of our actions throughout the games.
3. If possible let shepard survive. Maybe require a gazilion war assets + 100% galactic readiness and I don't know what else but why not give the man the chance to survive and end up with his / her LI?

thanks for reading