7052 réponses à ce sujet

[taymorr]

 am a fan of bioware games in general and mass effect in particular, I have been playing it from the beginning.
It is a fabulous game series  and the first 2 games are are in my personal top 5 games of all time .
When I started mass effect 3 I expected it to be amazing and it was, it was even better than I'd hoped .
The character interactions were wonderful and I even enjoyed the new multiplayer that was until the last 10 minutes or so,
which was so full of plot holes, inconsistencies and faulty logic it was unbelievable.
 
1) How did Anderson reach the control panel before me.
2) Where did the illusive man come from.
3) How could I breathe outside the citadel.
4) Why does the Evil reaper child appear as the child.
5) Why can't I argue with it
6) Why do I have to make 1 of 3 choices that utterly doom the galaxy even more completely than the reapers could
7) How is creating an army of synthetics to wipe out most organic life to stop synthetics from wiping out organic life a good idea
8) I managed to secure peace between the quarians and the geth I also encouraged edi to become more independent to the point where she chose to alter her core programming to value love over self preservation which renders the Evil reaper child's point moot anyway
10) Why was joker running away from the battle
11) How did the 2 squad mates I brought on the last mission get back aboard the ship
12) It was established in arrival dlc that if a mass relay blew up it would destroy the entire solar system it was in
 
There were however other problems that didn't relate to plot holes.
 
1) we're left with more questions than answers
2) the end doesn't fit with the rest of the series
3) shepard simply wouldn't bow down to the evil reaper child
4) we are left with no idea what happened to  anyone or anything
5) in the end nothing we did mattered, all civilisation is doomed
6) nothing about the reapers origins is explained
7) the bit at the absolute end with the guy telling the kid the story makes no sense
8) after all the effort both shepard and the players have put in we deserve at least a chance at a relatively happy ending not one where the absolute best case scenario is all civilisation doomed the whole fleet you brought with you to earth trapped and all the good work you did uniting the galaxy to be in vain

[ld1449]

Just EXPLAINING the endings as DR. Ray seemed to suggest is not enough Bioware. More endings should be added. For my piece the original ending should be removed completely. But to those of you who actually enjoyed it it can stay.

But there need to be MORE endings. Its what you people advertised to sell us the game in the first place.

[Archangel MoX]

Dear Bioware,
 
For a few days now, I’ve been trying to put things in order in my own head as to what my feelings are about the end of your masterpiece of a trilogy.
 
I firstly want to say thank you for what has been in my humble opinion, the finest piece of interactive media I have ever played. I have been a gamer since before some of the folks on these forums were born, and I vividly remember the first time my dad plugged in the pong machine to the TV all those years ago. 
 
Your fans here are passionate about the games you have created purely because you put your own passions into making these games, and have created a strong emotional bond between the characters and the players, more than any film or book can do. In a game, the player puts a lot of them selves into it as they partake in the story. In a book or film you are watching from a 3rd person perspective and are told the story rather than being involved in it. So we therefore never develop the kind emotional attachment to the characters that your game does.
 
So I want to share some of my favorite moments from the trilogy with you, and I hope it can throw some light on why I both loved the games but felt the ending didn’t work.
 
ME1 Right at the start, seeing that giant ship lift off from Eden Prime for the first time filled me with a sense of awe. The size of the thing was just terrifying. Then there was realization that your crew, squad mates and many npc’s all had interesting things to say, and their personalities grew over the course of the game. There are very few games that can do this even now. On Novaria, I had to make a decision of if I should kill or spare the Rachni Queen, a choice between genocide or the possibility of letting a new enemy loose on the galaxy. During the battle with the geth climbing the outside of the citadel tower I had to make the agonizing decision as to whether I should tell the Alliance fleet to save the council knowing it would cost alliance lives to do so, or to order them to continue the attack on Sovereign. And finaly the fight with Saren, and I persuaded him it wasn’t too late to redeem himself and watched as he came to his senses and took his own life. These amazing moments set the precedent for the rest of the series.
 
ME2 OMG you killed Shepard! What a way to open the game. As I saw myself drifting in space losing air (notice I said myself, as that’s how you have made us feel) and I felt a cold shiver wondering am I dead? I had to find out, and I was hooked yet again. The additions of Paragon and Renegade interrupts was fantastic, and I had to play through multiple times to see them all. My favorite loyalty mission was easily Tali’s and It was a very well crafted side story, with strong emotional impact. Almost all the crew members you pick up were interesting personalities with perhaps the exception of Jacob who felt a little flat in comparison. The build-up to the final mission was fantastic, and the fact that you could loose crew members based upon your decisions meant I had to replay it a few times to save the whole team. It really felt that what you had done made a difference to the outcome.
 
ME3 Seeing all those decisions come to fruition was hugely gratifying. Getting the Krogan and Taurian’s to agree to and alliance felt like I had really accomplished something huge. Killing the reaper on Rannoch and reuniting the Quarians and Geth on their home world, and the subsequent conversation with Tali brought a tear to my eye. I felt like a real honest hero after that. When I united the galaxy, and brought together the biggest fleet in known history to take back my home planet and finally destroy the Reapers I felt like we were almost there it was all about to pay off. The final conversations with my squad mates as I moved through the rubble of London were some of the most emotional scenes I have ever witnessed on screen, and I knew I wanted to see them again, to win this for them.
 
Then it fell apart….
 
You have to understand we have invested hundreds of hours into your creation, we have felt genuine human emotions towards these fictional pixel representations on our screens. Some people will point and call us sad, others will not understand how you can be attached to the game the way some of us are. The reason for all this is you Bioware. You have lovingly crafted this world for us to enjoy, and you have done it so well that we couldn’t help but be drawn into its tangled web of hope and despair and the emotional journey you took us on.
 
That’s why, im not angry with Bioware, EA or anyone involved in creating the Mass Effect trilogy, I have nothing but admiration for them for creating something I love, but its also why the current endings have just left me, as a human being feeling emotionally empty.
 
Right at the end, after everything I had fought for, all the emotions you put me through, you took them all away and I just felt empty, no emotions at all. There was no joy at seeing the relays destroyed, my shipmates stranded on an unknown world, but there was no despair either. It just left me feeling empty.
 
And that Bioware, is why I personally would like to see a change to the ending. Giving us an epilogue of what happened to everything we have come to care about, or even adding the possibility of a more upbeat ending for Sheppard and his crew would give me some measure of closure and satisfaction knowing it had all been worth it.
 
Arch
 
;tldr
 
Bioware I loved the games and they took us all on an emotional journey. The reason I would like them to change the way it ends is because Bioware created such an involving story and such good narrative and charaters that we really felt emotionally involved in it. Then it just came to an abrubt end and I was left not feeling joy or despair, but feeling empty.

[Twinzam.V]

Ghozt66 wrote...

- Omega kinda looks like it can fit as a Catalyst, plus it was made by the Protheans..could be a possible game ending changer an it gets rid of the god child V.I

-Normandy crashes into the Reaper blocking the portal to the citadel giving shepard enough time to reach the portal uninjured... takes care of the whole Normandy thing

-add a boss fight at the end... wouldnt mind fighting the ILLusive man * line above needs to happen for this to make sense*

- choice 4 DEFY shepard figures out somehow that the citadel's defenses are weakend with the catalyst so he/she tells Hackett to focus all fire on the citadel... there is your so called "Bittersweet" ending... sacrifice for the greater good... * gives shepard the look "i didnt take the easy way out", fought to the bitter end*

- like in Mass 2 if you didnt upgrade the Normandy you might not make it to the last mission.. have something like that if Force is not large enough to take back earth.. punish us or reward us for our efforts

I would prefer a bad ending where everyone dies while the Armada throws herself at the Reapers, at least it would give a sense that at least we resisted till the end.

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 21 mars 2012 - 05:01 .

[TSC_1]

Hi folks. Would you be kind enough to vote in this poll?

Given Dr. Muzyka's recent statement (http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/), I feel the need to get the
pulse of Mass Effect 3 players. In the statement, it appears that Bioware may be considering "explaining" the current endings rather than replacing them. I'd like to know if we find that acceptable. To that end, I've created this poll. Please read Dr. Muzyka's statement, then vote. Thank you!

http://social.biowar...55/polls/30216/

[Twinzam.V]

taymorr wrote...

 am a fan of bioware games in general and mass effect in particular, I have been playing it from the beginning.
It is a fabulous game series  and the first 2 games are are in my personal top 5 games of all time .
When I started mass effect 3 I expected it to be amazing and it was, it was even better than I'd hoped .
The character interactions were wonderful and I even enjoyed the new multiplayer that was until the last 10 minutes or so,
which was so full of plot holes, inconsistencies and faulty logic it was unbelievable.
 
1) How did Anderson reach the control panel before me.
2) Where did the illusive man come from.
3) How could I breathe outside the citadel.
4) Why does the Evil reaper child appear as the child.
5) Why can't I argue with it
6) Why do I have to make 1 of 3 choices that utterly doom the galaxy even more completely than the reapers could
7) How is creating an army of synthetics to wipe out most organic life to stop synthetics from wiping out organic life a good idea
8) I managed to secure peace between the quarians and the geth I also encouraged edi to become more independent to the point where she chose to alter her core programming to value love over self preservation which renders the Evil reaper child's point moot anyway
10) Why was joker running away from the battle
11) How did the 2 squad mates I brought on the last mission get back aboard the ship
12) It was established in arrival dlc that if a mass relay blew up it would destroy the entire solar system it was in
 
There were however other problems that didn't relate to plot holes.
 
1) we're left with more questions than answers
2) the end doesn't fit with the rest of the series
3) shepard simply wouldn't bow down to the evil reaper child
4) we are left with no idea what happened to  anyone or anything
5) in the end nothing we did mattered, all civilisation is doomed
6) nothing about the reapers origins is explained
7) the bit at the absolute end with the guy telling the kid the story makes no sense
8) after all the effort both shepard and the players have put in we deserve at least a chance at a relatively happy ending not one where the absolute best case scenario is all civilisation doomed the whole fleet you brought with you to earth trapped and all the good work you did uniting the galaxy to be in vain

I agree with all those points.

[qoobah]

 I've been lurking these forums since the ending debacle came to light. I love Mass Effect. During these 5 years it became more than a game to me; it was with me during some difficult times in my real life and as such I feel the need to chime in here. I would never forgive myself if I didn't give some feedback to the game as a whole and most importantly - why I feel utterly crushed by the last 5 minutes of an otherwise exceptional experience. I'll try to be constructive though with regards to the whole experience, while leaving the soul-crushing, devastating ending to be discussed separately:

The Good

• First 2 hours. That included my LI, much missing in ME2, was pure gold. I was in awe with dialogue, flow and pacing of this section. Also the showdown with Cerberus Agent brought some serious emotional impact.
• Combat. I liked it already in ME2, in ME3 it became awesome. The feel, handling, sounds, weapon design, movement, pacing, enemies - everything was so much better. I had more fun in ME3's combat than I had in Gears of War 3.
• Gameplay vs Dialogue flow in missions. Pacing and balancing between action, tension and exposition in pretty much every mission was nigh spot on. That goes especially for Priority missions. They were a class on its own, packing some serious emotional punch.
• More emphasis on personal, emotional side of Shepard. The ending dialogue in Lair of the Shadow Broker was followed up in ME3 brilliantly. I genuinely felt for Shepard seeing him buckle under pressure and that made my experience all the more immersive and emotional. And the ending all the more devastating.
• In general - the game all the way up to Battle for Earth was a class on its own and easily the best and most impactful game experience I've had in my life. That made the last minutes all the more devastating, but more on that below.

The Minor Bad

• Character interactions - while I think that the non-interactive dialogues were fun and actually improved the flow a lot (don't have to launch a cutscene that replays indefinitely after unique dialogue is depleted) I felt the dialogue was not distributed evenly enough between squadmates. I've had lots of interactions with Garrus and Liara, but talking to my LI, Ash, left me wanting.
• Less choice and "Investigate" in dialogue. This is debatable, in general I think the balance between exposition and gameplay was great, but sometimes I felt I could use some more in-depth interaction with people, especially squad members and in the LI storyline development.
• The Crucible. I couldn't help but smirk at the introduction of a last-resort-superweapon that was "everyones only hope". While I understand it's role as a plot device it really bordered on all-too-convenient - even before the ending happened.

The Soul-Crushing Bad

• I guess everyone knows whats coming here. A lot has been said about the endings, ranging from plot inconsistencies through lack of impact of previous choices on the final showdown, to lack of closure, to overall bleakness and despair. I agree with all of that and don't want to repeat it in vain. I'll just emphasise what hurt me personally the most and why I feel devastated to the point of loosing the will to carry on with the Mass Effect universe.
• Like I mentioned - I became invested in Mass Effect during some difficult times in my RL. That coincided with launch of both ME and ME2. The story of Commander Shepard - MY Commander Shepard - helped me carry on in tough spots, both as an escapism/venting mechanism but more importantly, through inspiration. To me the story of ME was always one about hope, defiance and success against all odds. Even if it sounds cliche, the fact that I felt it was a story I shaped gave it impact beyond anything I imagined possible. The fact that I could succeed against all odds in this story feeded my strenght in facing real world problems. People can ridicule that, but the fact remains: this video game touched me deeper I thought possible. I guess it's the sign of times.
• The ending destroyed all that. I couldn't defy anything. I couldn't succeed to see another day. I couldn't do anything that threw away the crippled logic of a strange plot device by the name of Space Magic Boy. Regardless of how much I prepared, the alliances I made, the effort I put in - none of this mattered. My Shepard was dead (or was he?), galaxy crippled (or was it?), never to reunite with my LI (or was I?). No closure, no sense, no answers. But most importantly no hope. I was crushed. I wanted to replay whole ME trilogy to experience it in the fullest but I just can't find the will to do that, knowing that in the end "life sucks and then you die".

I believe you, the developers, know your baby best. All I can do is share my pain with the ending to your - otherwise brilliant - creation. If you asked me for ideas, I'd suggest to give the players the ability to impact the ending in the tradition of ME2: that the outcome was directly tied to how well you did in the game, how much effort you dedicated to preparation. I'd love the possibility to fail utterly, to suffer a phyrric victory, but also to win and reunite with LI and friends - even if it would be fiendishly hard and required sacrifices. In short - give the chance to fail, but also, give the chance to hope. And above all stand by the ideal of player choice that shaped these games from the inception.

But I have faith, that you can make this right. As it stands now, I won't force myself to play ME at all. I'll await April fervently, as what you decide to do with these concerns will probably decide my dedication to the Mass Effect universe in general. Not because of spite, or anger towards you, but because the ending as it is now completely saps the one thing that ME gave me all these years - hope and inspiration. Without it I see no point in carrying on.

Don't ignore this, BioWare, I beg you. Whether you are aware of that or not - you've touched my soul with an absolutely stunning, amazing experiences during these 5 years. Don't leave it a chilling touch of despair.

[blackfx]

All I can say is:

The game ended before it truly began. I'm a huge RPG fan and I am RARELY into FPS games. This game had exactly the balance I was hoping for.

With the new gameplay action and RPG experience I truly feel like this should have been just the beginning of an epic series.

The ending of ME3 should have been a beginning for something incredible. I want to keep fighting (even had you kept the battle raging for several titles) then finish off with a well thought out and conclusive BANG. You could do this by cleaning up the galaxy as the galactic force.

Nevertheless, I thought the game was fantastic and heights above ME1 and ME2 (although I was excited about their premise as much as ME3).


Things BioWare should DO:

1. A new MEGA force bigger than the Reapers, the Reapers have been fighting a force greater than them in deep space and that this was all a ruse to prepare the galaxy for greater adventure.
or
1. Extend all the games by CREATING new games that sit before, between, and after the main 3 titles.
2. Don't end the Mass Effect Universe.. ever. Extend it until something brilliant comes to mind but don't end it.

[nrcrane]

I think that the greatest disappointment for many was the lack of different endings. One of the most appealing things that the Mass Effect did through out the series was give a sense that the choices you made had an impact on something greater down the line. Mass Effect 3 seems to have just thrown that concept out the window.

I think what can be done to improve the game for everyone is to add additional ending that take into account choices made along the way. Keeping the current ending is fine, so long as it is just one of the possible endings.

As it stands now the replay value for the whole series is much less since you can see that in the end any decisions do not really matter.

Adding more endings would make everyone happy I think. People that like the current ending get to keep that, people who want more will get what they want, and Bioware gets to sell more DLC.

[Twinzam.V]

nrcrane wrote...

I think that the greatest disappointment for many was the lack of different endings. One of the most appealing things that the Mass Effect did through out the series was give a sense that the choices you made had an impact on something greater down the line. Mass Effect 3 seems to have just thrown that concept out the window.

I think what can be done to improve the game for everyone is to add additional ending that take into account choices made along the way. Keeping the current ending is fine, so long as it is just one of the possible endings.

As it stands now the replay value for the whole series is much less since you can see that in the end any decisions do not really matter.

Adding more endings would make everyone happy I think. People that like the current ending get to keep that, people who want more will get what they want, and Bioware gets to sell more DLC.

Not that hard and they still make money out of it while keeping everyone satisfied.

[Twinzam.V]

blackfx wrote...

All I can say is:

The game ended before it truly began. I'm a huge RPG fan and I am RARELY into FPS games. This game had exactly the balance I was hoping for.

With the new gameplay action and RPG experience I truly feel like this should have been just the beginning of an epic series.

The ending of ME3 should have been a beginning for something incredible. I want to keep fighting (even had you kept the battle raging for several titles) then finish off with a well thought out and conclusive BANG. You could do this by cleaning up the galaxy as the galactic force.

Nevertheless, I thought the game was fantastic and heights above ME1 and ME2 (although I was excited about their premise as much as ME3).


Things BioWare should DO:

1. A new MEGA force bigger than the Reapers, the Reapers have been fighting a force greater than them in deep space and that this was all a ruse to prepare the galaxy for greater adventure.
or
1. Extend all the games by CREATING new games that sit before, between, and after the main 3 titles.
2. Don't end the Mass Effect Universe.. ever. Extend it until something brilliant comes to mind but don't end it.

That possible mega force was mentioned when we get Tali in Haestrom from ME2.

[Aviditie]

^ what MassFrank said

You have three choices: blue (what Illusive Man would do), red (what Anderson would do), or green (what bioware thinks you should do bc it would be cool, right?). But I don't have a Shepard who would choos blue, with red I undid all the let's just live in harmony work I'd completed, and green is saying that everyone has to be the same to have peace.

Is that a message of hope?

[Bellendaine]

qoobah wrote...

 I've been lurking these forums since the ending debacle came to light. I love Mass Effect. During these 5 years it became more than a game to me; it was with me during some difficult times in my real life and as such I feel the need to chime in here. I would never forgive myself if I didn't give some feedback to the game as a whole and most importantly - why I feel utterly crushed by the last 5 minutes of an otherwise exceptional experience. I'll try to be constructive though with regards to the whole experience, while leaving the soul-crushing, devastating ending to be discussed separately:

The Good

• First 2 hours. That included my LI, much missing in ME2, was pure gold. I was in awe with dialogue, flow and pacing of this section. Also the showdown with Cerberus Agent brought some serious emotional impact.
• Combat. I liked it already in ME2, in ME3 it became awesome. The feel, handling, sounds, weapon design, movement, pacing, enemies - everything was so much better. I had more fun in ME3's combat than I had in Gears of War 3.
• Gameplay vs Dialogue flow in missions. Pacing and balancing between action, tension and exposition in pretty much every mission was nigh spot on. That goes especially for Priority missions. They were a class on its own, packing some serious emotional punch.
• More emphasis on personal, emotional side of Shepard. The ending dialogue in Lair of the Shadow Broker was followed up in ME3 brilliantly. I genuinely felt for Shepard seeing him buckle under pressure and that made my experience all the more immersive and emotional. And the ending all the more devastating.
• In general - the game all the way up to Battle for Earth was a class on its own and easily the best and most impactful game experience I've had in my life. That made the last minutes all the more devastating, but more on that below.

The Minor Bad

• Character interactions - while I think that the non-interactive dialogues were fun and actually improved the flow a lot (don't have to launch a cutscene that replays indefinitely after unique dialogue is depleted) I felt the dialogue was not distributed evenly enough between squadmates. I've had lots of interactions with Garrus and Liara, but talking to my LI, Ash (for me, Kaidan [posters comment]), left me wanting.
• Less choice and "Investigate" in dialogue. This is debatable, in general I think the balance between exposition and gameplay was great, but sometimes I felt I could use some more in-depth interaction with people, especially squad members and in the LI storyline development.

The Soul-Crushing Bad

• I guess everyone knows whats coming here. A lot has been said about the endings, ranging from plot inconsistencies through lack of impact of previous choices on the final showdown, to lack of closure, to overall bleakness and despair. I agree with all of that and don't want to repeat it in vain. I'll just emphasise what hurt me personally the most and why I feel devastated to the point of loosing the will to carry on with the Mass Effect universe.
• Like I mentioned - I became invested in Mass Effect during some difficult times in my RL. That coincided with launch of both ME and ME2. The story of Commander Shepard - MY Commander Shepard - helped me carry on in tough spots, both as an escapism/venting mechanism but more importantly, through inspiration. To me the story of ME was always one about hope, defiance and success against all odds. Even if it sounds cliche, the fact that I felt it was a story I shaped gave it impact beyond anything I imagined possible. The fact that I could succeed against all odds in this story feeded my strenght in facing real world problems. People can ridicule that, but the fact remains: this video game touched me deeper I thought possible. I guess it's the sign of times.

Don't ignore this, BioWare, I beg you. Whether you are aware of that or not - you've touched my soul with an absolutely stunning, amazing experiences during these 5 years. Don't leave it a chilling touch of despair.

I just want to echo this posting.  I think it's beautifully put and I agree with it very much, particularly the quoted parts that I've kept.  Of particular note, the parts that I have bolded and put in italics could be taken from my own mouth (or, pen, as it were ...), so I wanted to highlight those.  It's very well written, and kudos to you Qoobah, for taking the time to write it.

Modifié par Bellendaine, 21 mars 2012 - 05:11 .

[Victia]

The Big Palooka wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

Given Dr. Muzyka's recent blog statement, I want to make it very clear that we don't just want the current endings explained. That isn't good enough. The problem isn't that they're unclear; despite what many are saying, we actually do understand them, and we do understand what Bioware was trying to do with them. The problem is that they're bad. They make no sense. They do not fit with the rest of the series thematically. They destroy the Mass Effect fictional universe.
 

Echoing the above and adding my own input:

A lot of the feedback to the endings has focused on what we perceive as plot holes or information gaps in the current ending.  Our attention to these issues should not, however, be taken as an indication that we merely want to see these quesitons answered.  Even with more explanation, the endings are still going to be bad, so bad that they damage the experience of an otherwise excellent game.

We want additional choices and endings.

Agreeing!

I understand what the current ending was tryin to achieve but for me it was completely out of place and failed in its bittersweet atempt! New endings are needed, in my opinion, that are in keeping with the themes of mass effect and dont feel isolated from the rest of the series, in short (to echo the 2 above statements) for me they riun the ME universe

[Twinzam.V]

Aviditie wrote...

^ what MassFrank said

You have three choices: blue (what Illusive Man would do), red (what Anderson would do), or green (what bioware thinks you should do bc it would be cool, right?). But I don't have a Shepard who would choos blue, with red I undid all the let's just live in harmony work I'd completed, and green is saying that everyone has to be the same to have peace.

Is that a message of hope?

Honestly i dont know, but to me that could count as bad since in ME2 the Reapers where making a Human Reaper. When confronted with that option i quickly remembered that.
The control option it was stated in the games, books, and even Javik from the DLC "From Ashes", that control is not an option.
So destruction to me was the best choice but i didnt want to kill the Geth and EDI.

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 21 mars 2012 - 05:18 .

[Victia]

Bellendaine wrote...

qoobah wrote...

 I've been lurking these forums since the ending debacle came to light. I love Mass Effect. During these 5 years it became more than a game to me; it was with me during some difficult times in my real life and as such I feel the need to chime in here. I would never forgive myself if I didn't give some feedback to the game as a whole and most importantly - why I feel utterly crushed by the last 5 minutes of an otherwise exceptional experience. I'll try to be constructive though with regards to the whole experience, while leaving the soul-crushing, devastating ending to be discussed separately:

The Good

• First 2 hours. That included my LI, much missing in ME2, was pure gold. I was in awe with dialogue, flow and pacing of this section. Also the showdown with Cerberus Agent brought some serious emotional impact.
• Combat. I liked it already in ME2, in ME3 it became awesome. The feel, handling, sounds, weapon design, movement, pacing, enemies - everything was so much better. I had more fun in ME3's combat than I had in Gears of War 3.
• Gameplay vs Dialogue flow in missions. Pacing and balancing between action, tension and exposition in pretty much every mission was nigh spot on. That goes especially for Priority missions. They were a class on its own, packing some serious emotional punch.
• More emphasis on personal, emotional side of Shepard. The ending dialogue in Lair of the Shadow Broker was followed up in ME3 brilliantly. I genuinely felt for Shepard seeing him buckle under pressure and that made my experience all the more immersive and emotional. And the ending all the more devastating.
• In general - the game all the way up to Battle for Earth was a class on its own and easily the best and most impactful game experience I've had in my life. That made the last minutes all the more devastating, but more on that below.

The Minor Bad

• Character interactions - while I think that the non-interactive dialogues were fun and actually improved the flow a lot (don't have to launch a cutscene that replays indefinitely after unique dialogue is depleted) I felt the dialogue was not distributed evenly enough between squadmates. I've had lots of interactions with Garrus and Liara, but talking to my LI, Ash (for me, Kaidan [posters comment]), left me wanting.
• Less choice and "Investigate" in dialogue. This is debatable, in general I think the balance between exposition and gameplay was great, but sometimes I felt I could use some more in-depth interaction with people, especially squad members and in the LI storyline development.

The Soul-Crushing Bad

• I guess everyone knows whats coming here. A lot has been said about the endings, ranging from plot inconsistencies through lack of impact of previous choices on the final showdown, to lack of closure, to overall bleakness and despair. I agree with all of that and don't want to repeat it in vain. I'll just emphasise what hurt me personally the most and why I feel devastated to the point of loosing the will to carry on with the Mass Effect universe.
• Like I mentioned - I became invested in Mass Effect during some difficult times in my RL. That coincided with launch of both ME and ME2. The story of Commander Shepard - MY Commander Shepard - helped me carry on in tough spots, both as an escapism/venting mechanism but more importantly, through inspiration. To me the story of ME was always one about hope, defiance and success against all odds. Even if it sounds cliche, the fact that I felt it was a story I shaped gave it impact beyond anything I imagined possible. The fact that I could succeed against all odds in this story feeded my strenght in facing real world problems. People can ridicule that, but the fact remains: this video game touched me deeper I thought possible. I guess it's the sign of times.

Don't ignore this, BioWare, I beg you. Whether you are aware of that or not - you've touched my soul with an absolutely stunning, amazing experiences during these 5 years. Don't leave it a chilling touch of despair.

I just want to echo this posting.  I think it's beautifully put and I agree with it very much, particularly the quoted parts that I've kept.  Of particular note, the parts that I have bolded and put in italics could be taken from my own mouth (or, pen, as it were ...), so I wanted to highlight those.  It's very well written, and kudos to you Qoobah, for taking the time to write it.

+1

[GroverA125]

Just explaining the endings is NOT going to cut it, frankly. No amount of explaination, clarification or several extra lines of god-child are going to make it any better, all that's going to do is p**s people off even more. You've got a chance to redeem yourselves before everyone fighting for better endings gives up on the franchise and finds another one that won't stab them in the back, explaining that reapers kill people because robots are bad and jumping into a laser, shooting a panel or electrocuting yourself are the only viable options to save all life is NOT a good way to end this, and it will probably make more people frustrated because you've done half a job and then infuriated the people who hate the original endings AND the people who like the endings.

Don't do this to yourself, you have one last chance before thousands of players give up on you, you've got their attention, win back your audience before they leave you for dead.

[Avinery]

Ok, here we go, probably everything I'll say was already said, but nevertheless, I didn't like the ending one bit. At least for me, it spoiled the whole trilogy to the point, where I wont be replaying it any time soon.

First problem - plot holes, how did my team got back on Normandy and why was Joker running away to crash land on some godforsaken planet?

Secondly, no choice whatsoever. The whole series was based on player decisions and repercussions. But in the end, none of them mattered, not even little. We were given (if we tried hard enough) three "choices" which were equally unappealing and the result was basically only change in explosion color.

On another, more subjective feelings, I'd really like to see a happy ending, whether as choice, or reward for effort invested in playthrough. I mean, we are presented with only one "choice" in which Shep is maybe alive, but at cost of EDI, geth and every other synthetic. Just doesn't seems fair, I really get that it's the way it is in real life, but that doesn't mean I'd want that even in fiction all the time.

On side note, could we get DLC with Kal'Reegars last battle? He imho deserved more that a side note in alliance news...

I know I don't give many suggestions how to change it, but the point was to voice my disappointment. And I sure hope, this issue won't be buried or forgotten. Hold the line.

[Aviditie]

Plus. Now I'm worried bioware thinks just explaining the ending bc I didn't get closure will fix it. I've left the galaxy screwed no matter what I chose (and I don't know why I had to choose it) for 1-2 cycles. I don't really care about the next cycle or one down the line 100-200k years from now. I spent my time trying to save *this* cycle and I failed. And nothing I do can change that bc Star Child cares about my war assets enough to give me 3 choices.

I wouldn't recommend this game to anyway bc I wouldn't want them to go through what I've gone through emotionally at the end of this game. And *explaining* the ending isn't the same as *fixing* the ending. Fixing it in a sense that it takes the themes that made the other games great and hold true - i.e. Shepard succeeds or *chooses* to give up.

[Raanz]

What was so fascinating with the Mass Effect series for me was the fact that the player guides Shepard through a wonderfully thought out galaxy, sprinkled with all kinds of terrestrial life. There is a main conflict, a protagonist to deal with said conflict and along the way the player shapes and molds his/her Shepard through the mechanism of choices.

As you play through ME1 you get the set up, great characters are introduced and a dramatic ending for "chapter 1". Your choice to save the council or let them perish, compelling. The ability to take a paragon or renegade option when dealing with Saren based on if you had played renegade or paragon during the game was great. The first game endeared me to the franchise and rekindled my enthusiasm with working in the industry.

Mass Effect 2 was full of choice and their consequences or the perception of consequence. Side with either Miranda or Jack during their little spat. Side with Legion or Tali. Do I go right after my kidnapped crew or run another mission? Upgrade my ship or leave it be? Destroy the Collector Base or give it to my nemesis; Cerberus? All of these things made me feel like I was making "real" choices and eventually steer my Shepard's fate.

Although I enjoyed ME3, I would say the choices in that particular game were less critical and therefore, less fulfilling. A lot of the individual missions in ME3 were great. Very fun, some of them were with real emotional results.
All of this brings me to the end of the trilogy. Everything after the battle in London just feels rushed. Whether or not this was intended, I cannot say but the three choices for the finale gave me the perception that nothing I did for the war effort mattered at all. What happened to Shepard's crew, his friends, the Earth, the fleets, Harbinger, his love interest (if any). The ending seemed empty and left me very indifferent to the series. I actually had 4 play-throughs ready to go before ME3 release and after playing through once, I have no real desire to do the other three.

I think this term gets over-used a lot, but I believe it applies here: closure. If the ending had better clarity in regards to closure, I would have been happy about it. I don't need Shepard to live in order to feel satisfied, hell I played Fallout 3 and loved it, but let's face it...the Mass Effect series is leaps and bounds better then FO3 and I was really expecting something epic in regards to the ending and I got (in my opinion), mediocre at best.

So to answer the call in this thread, my suggestion would be to give the players some closure. What did it all mean? How did my Shepard's existence effect the cyclical nature of the story? Did my crew live or die...what did they do? Is Shepard really dead, or is he indoctrinated? Did he beat indoctrination if that is what happened. What happened to the Reapers?
One last thing, why destroy the relays? Was the irony with doing that intended? In making a choice, Shepard eventually kills more sentient beings in one single act then what the Reapers could have or would have done by harvesting. Ugh.

Modifié par Raanz, 21 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[elevationmind]

I have a feeling I have to contribute with some suggestions if Bioware seriously is thinking about helping us who are endlessly frustrated by the ending (exactly because WE LOVED THE GAME until the last moments). Keep the ending if you really IS the story you wanted to tell us. But then fill the incredible holes:

1. why do all my teammates who were part of the ground troops end up on the Normandy? And how?
Why don’t you leave them on earth so we get the feeling it matters if we save earth or not because it means they die. Why not show us how all Shepards team mates die, if he didn’t get enough military power in the game? Or survive on earth looking at the destroyed Citadel and sadly exhaling: “Shepard”.  
Wouldn’t be a perfect motivation for replaying? Saving my comrades? Saving perhaps my love interest? I for one would replay all three games if necessary, just to do that.
But why would I if they are all miraculously saved on the Normandy?!

2. If you do keep the troops that were on Earth on earth – wouldn’t they be the ones searching for Shepards body? Finding him perhaps (like I heard it should be possible). Making a funeral. (Or even letting him live and be reunited with his love interest).

3. Why did that god-child make machines to kill higher-life, so machines wouldn’t kill all life? Isn’t that a bit of a paradox? And doesn’t it make me stupid because I saved the Geth? And why do I have to listen to the child and believe him – I may believe the Geth and all machines are good and won’t hurt us …

4. Wouldn’t it be nice to see a bit more of the fighting? The krogans? The rachni? Everyone?

5. Why not show how different everything would be depending of which option I chose. I don’t see almost any difference (EDI or no EDI, Texture, or no Texture).

There is more. But answering those questions, implementing those changes would be enough (for me). I really sincerely hope that would be possible. I read Dr. Ray Muzyka’s addressing from today and I really would want to oblige: to tell everyone what great *great* game Mass Effect 3 is. Before the ending I would have gave it 10 of 10 points. But now I seriously have problems to even think about recommending it.  

Modifié par elevationmind, 21 mars 2012 - 05:26 .

[elirian_19]

Simply trying to explain this ending will not suffice. I need something that makes sense - not something that is explained to death until it's even more confusing than it was (which will be quite a feat but I won't put it past your writers anymore).

If the "explanation" DLC is the only compromise BioWare is willing to give (which seems to be the case judging from Dr. Ray's recent announcement) then it will unfortunately not do. Not for me, anyway and I won't be buying it. Good luck to those who will be happy to have space magic explained away with more space magic.

[jones81381]

taymorr wrote...

 am a fan of bioware games in general and mass effect in particular, I have been playing it from the beginning.
It is a fabulous game series  and the first 2 games are are in my personal top 5 games of all time .
When I started mass effect 3 I expected it to be amazing and it was, it was even better than I'd hoped .
The character interactions were wonderful and I even enjoyed the new multiplayer that was until the last 10 minutes or so,
which was so full of plot holes, inconsistencies and faulty logic it was unbelievable.
 
1) How did Anderson reach the control panel before me.
2) Where did the illusive man come from.
3) How could I breathe outside the citadel.
4) Why does the Evil reaper child appear as the child.
5) Why can't I argue with it
6) Why do I have to make 1 of 3 choices that utterly doom the galaxy even more completely than the reapers could
7) How is creating an army of synthetics to wipe out most organic life to stop synthetics from wiping out organic life a good idea
8) I managed to secure peace between the quarians and the geth I also encouraged edi to become more independent to the point where she chose to alter her core programming to value love over self preservation which renders the Evil reaper child's point moot anyway
10) Why was joker running away from the battle
11) How did the 2 squad mates I brought on the last mission get back aboard the ship
12) It was established in arrival dlc that if a mass relay blew up it would destroy the entire solar system it was in
 
There were however other problems that didn't relate to plot holes.
 
1) we're left with more questions than answers
2) the end doesn't fit with the rest of the series
3) shepard simply wouldn't bow down to the evil reaper child
4) we are left with no idea what happened to  anyone or anything
5) in the end nothing we did mattered, all civilisation is doomed
6) nothing about the reapers origins is explained
7) the bit at the absolute end with the guy telling the kid the story makes no sense
8) after all the effort both shepard and the players have put in we deserve at least a chance at a relatively happy ending not one where the absolute best case scenario is all civilisation doomed the whole fleet you brought with you to earth trapped and all the good work you did uniting the galaxy to be in vain

To be fair, the reapers origin is explained. The relays and the citadel were created millions, if not billions of years ago by the very first galactic civilization in the galaxy. That same civilization had created synthetics to serve them. Their synthetics revolted and that first civ could not beat them. In a last ditch desperate attempt, they turned themselves into the very first reaper(s) and managed to destroy their synthetic enemies. After they destroyed their synthetics, they decided that instead of allowing any future civilizations to repeat their mistake, they would periodically wipe the galaxy clean of all advanced life and at the end of each cycle, they would choose the most promising species and turn it into a reaper, adding to their numbers. 

So their logic is thus, "We don't want you to be destroyed by synthetics so we turned ourselves into synthetics so we can destroy you and wipe the slate clean every 50 thousand years or so."

The sad part is, I can sort of see the sense in this. I guess the reapers assume that if a synthetic life form were to take over the galaxy, all organic life would be wiped out, not just the advanced civs. They think that if the Geth for example decide to kill everyone, since they would have no use for organics, they wouldn't stop with just the advanced civs, they would destroy all organic life, everywhere, including species that are still dwelling in caves or whatever.

[Twinzam.V]

jones81381 wrote...

taymorr wrote...

 am a fan of bioware games in general and mass effect in particular, I have been playing it from the beginning.
It is a fabulous game series  and the first 2 games are are in my personal top 5 games of all time .
When I started mass effect 3 I expected it to be amazing and it was, it was even better than I'd hoped .
The character interactions were wonderful and I even enjoyed the new multiplayer that was until the last 10 minutes or so,
which was so full of plot holes, inconsistencies and faulty logic it was unbelievable.
 
1) How did Anderson reach the control panel before me.
2) Where did the illusive man come from.
3) How could I breathe outside the citadel.
4) Why does the Evil reaper child appear as the child.
5) Why can't I argue with it
6) Why do I have to make 1 of 3 choices that utterly doom the galaxy even more completely than the reapers could
7) How is creating an army of synthetics to wipe out most organic life to stop synthetics from wiping out organic life a good idea
8) I managed to secure peace between the quarians and the geth I also encouraged edi to become more independent to the point where she chose to alter her core programming to value love over self preservation which renders the Evil reaper child's point moot anyway
10) Why was joker running away from the battle
11) How did the 2 squad mates I brought on the last mission get back aboard the ship
12) It was established in arrival dlc that if a mass relay blew up it would destroy the entire solar system it was in
 
There were however other problems that didn't relate to plot holes.
 
1) we're left with more questions than answers
2) the end doesn't fit with the rest of the series
3) shepard simply wouldn't bow down to the evil reaper child
4) we are left with no idea what happened to  anyone or anything
5) in the end nothing we did mattered, all civilisation is doomed
6) nothing about the reapers origins is explained
7) the bit at the absolute end with the guy telling the kid the story makes no sense
8) after all the effort both shepard and the players have put in we deserve at least a chance at a relatively happy ending not one where the absolute best case scenario is all civilisation doomed the whole fleet you brought with you to earth trapped and all the good work you did uniting the galaxy to be in vain

To be fair, the reapers origin is explained. The relays and the citadel were created millions, if not billions of years ago by the very first galactic civilization in the galaxy. That same civilization had created synthetics to serve them. Their synthetics revolted and that first civ could not beat them. In a last ditch desperate attempt, they turned themselves into the very first reaper(s) and managed to destroy their synthetic enemies. After they destroyed their synthetics, they decided that instead of allowing any future civilizations to repeat their mistake, they would periodically wipe the galaxy clean of all advanced life and at the end of each cycle, they would choose the most promising species and turn it into a reaper, adding to their numbers. 

So their logic is thus, "We don't want you to be destroyed by synthetics so we turned ourselves into synthetics so we can destroy you and wipe the slate clean every 50 thousand years or so."

The sad part is, I can sort of see the sense in this. I guess the reapers assume that if a synthetic life form were to take over the galaxy, all organic life would be wiped out, not just the advanced civs. They think that if the Geth for example decide to kill everyone, since they would have no use for organics, they wouldn't stop with just the advanced civs, they would destroy all organic life, everywhere, including species that are still dwelling in caves or whatever.

But Legion said that the Reapers accepted some of the Geth, besides in the geth hub you can see that the Geth never intended to harm the Quarians, the creators. All of the actions have always been in self defence till the end.

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 21 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[Sushu]

Ok, sorry, this is going to be difficult for me but I am going to do my best so my suggestions are well written so everyone can understand them.

First of all I deeply understand the concern of Bioware for keeping a game that even the new customers can play and fully enjoy, but I'd like Bioware to understand too that the people who has been playing for a long since the very first Mass Effect need to think that it worth the play and the waiting. So my first suggestion is pointing to that, please, make sure that we feel that our decisions really mean something. I am so sad that I chose Anderson as counselor and then I found that you wrote a book to make Udina counselor, so my choice is worthless. It is not the only example.

As second suggestion, and this one is a bit more specific, please, stop the A, B and C endings, there must be more of them, different things, we were promised to have a lot of them and now we only have A,B or C. I don't mind if you keep them (after cleaning the bugs) because there are still few people who liked them, but add more endings, make the experience as personal as posible, as different as you can, from the best possible (of course, really difficult to obtain and not absolutely perfect) to the worst (why there isn't any ending in wich Shepard follows the steps of Saren? I thought that could be pretty normal, and doom the damn galaxy to the end!!! let's burn it! One of my Shepards deserves the worst, I promise). The only way to make the most people happy it is to have the most possible endings, because everyone lived their experience in different ways, why all of them have to finish them the same way if they were so different? Even if I were you I even added a new DLC with a new different way to finish the war with two or three endings or something like that, and some new missions to obtain the tools to finish the war, I think everyone would pay for that if there is more playing content.

I've heard to some people the feeling that even some events and choices in ME3 game were worthless or they feel like that, just make the thinks a little more difficult and important, make that events to change somethings about the war.

Give explanations about teammates and please give an answer for those who feel completely devasted about the loss of their mates and romances (I don't think that save and keep your romance has to be difficult, make it a hell of a difficult thing, but give the option, even if you have to sacrifice other people, make it difficult, war it is not easy but not everything has to be impossible).

I could have like a thousands of suggestions about possible more endings and how to reach them, but I am not pretty sure if implementing them in a game that it is already finished and released would be easy. Still I wish that I helped a bit on this.

Thank you to hear your fans, I am one of the ones that feel absolutely disappointed, but I still want to trust in you, just don't make my hopes go to the bin.