7052 réponses à ce sujet

[MassFrank]

As someone who works with narratives for a living, I have been following ME with great interest, as a form of alternative, or interactive narrative. There seems to have been an abandonment of a fundamental narrative tension, created in the first game, not very present in the second, and then alluded to but never realized in the third.

The Reapers are established as immortal and extremely powerful, yet static. It is suggested that the reason the technology is left behind, is to guide the development of organic species along specific lines. This says they wish to harvest organic life at a particular point, but it also means they require organic life to develop in a particular way, in order to deal with it. The suggestion that the return is time based (50,000 years) rather than basing it on a hallmark of some sort (Sentient Machines), also says that these beings, although incredibly powerful, are not particularly adaptive.

Organic life on the other hand is weak and fleeting, but adaptive. As this cycle of extinction continues, countless millennia, then it is safe to suggest, that earlier civilizations were more homogeneous (alluded to by the Prothean) and that throughout that time, the galaxy has been becoming more and more diverse. This cycle is the pinnacle of that biodiversity, and as such becomes the cycle which poses the greatest threat to the unchanging, and unchangeable Reapers. The Reapers could handle any, or even some of the incredible variation of organic life in the galaxy, but not all. This is consistent with a theoretical understanding that biodiversity is a very organic response to a threat. It also supports the “bringing the galaxy together” theme in ME3. Each of the specific species provides some narrative element that contributes to the defeat of the Reapers. I won’t go into what each of the species would contribute, but for obvious reasons, humans are my favorite.

Humans, are the least predictable life form in the galaxy. And for creatures immortal and unchanging, they are a complete pain in the ass. Humanity's main contribution to defeating the reapers is making them so mad, they make mistakes. Kind of like how Sovereign ignored the fleet to try and kill Sheppard, and died because of it. In the galactic ecology humans are biologically designed to anger the gods. Something Bioware can probably understand well at the moment.

What makes this tension so elegant is that the survival of the galaxy is the very thing that insures there will never truly be peace.

Modifié par MassFrank, 21 mars 2012 - 07:58 .

[razor150]

Let's face it, Bioware had a good ending until they introduced the god AI. If the ending was Shephard dying next to Anderson while they watched the defeat of the Reapers in their last moments nobody would be complaining. If they wanted to have some speculation they could have left it open on whether or not Shepard actually dies by panning away from him to show the Reapers blowing up/deactivating, and then to his squadmate showing who lived and died.

Blowing up the relays, if you can adequately explain why doing so doesn't kill star systems like in the Arrival make a kind of sense. Destroying them breaks the everyone from the evolutionary path the Reapers imposed on the species of the galaxy. However it would also be good to know that the remnants of the now stranded fleet in the Sol system isn't going to starve to death on Earth. Canablism, and the krogans eating everyone is kind of a downer. Maybe an quick cut scene of the races joining together to rebuild Earth which is now their home as well for the foreseeable future. Showing that your efforts to unite the galaxy wasn't all for naught.

Instead giving an ending that makes sense and really is bittersweat you had to throw something in from left field. Deus Ex Machina endings aren't artistic, they are cliche and usually used by writers who don't know how to get themselves out of a hole they've written themselves into. In the case of Mass Effect 3 is is a Deus Ex Machina ending for the sake of having one, which is even worse. Sometimes you need to know when to stop.

You can take this negatively if you want but if your intention is to explain the problems away in the current ending by keeping the god AI, then you aren't making the ending any better. The ending is fundamentally bad. You can close the plotholes of Joker and who gets off the crashed Normandy all you want, but all you will be doing is polishing a very ugly and stinky turd.

If you want to add more playable content the Indoctrination theory is aces in my book.

Modifié par razor150, 21 mars 2012 - 07:54 .

[O Fenris O]

Just something which was probably already posted but still has arguments which are truelly fascinating if true

http://www.forbes.co...veryones-heads/

I'd like to see that in the actual game. Especially the video is quite a remarkable explanation.

Modifié par O Fenris O, 21 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[Zaw]

The main problem with the ending for me:  The Catalyst and Shepard (yes... Shepard.)

Let's put aside all the little plot holes with Anderson, TIM, the Normandy Crew, and even the crucible.  Let's just say all that stuff was feasible, but the dev's didn't edit it together properly.  No problem.  I can accept most of that.

The real heart of the problem, is the hero gave up at the end without a fight, and the dark allure of the Reapers was shattered.  Two of the primary forces in the ME universe, go out with a "meh."

Shepard

You sit there and watch your beloved hero of a 3-part trilogy suddenly give up right at the end.  It was very unsettling to see Shepard just stand there and accept almost everything he/she was told.  It went against everything she was fighting for since ME1 (especially paragon.)  It left the player with a hollow feeling inside.

The Shepard we all know, would have challenged his theories, asked questions, said something.  Instead it slowly wound down until she just gave up and the dialog scene booted her out.

I was dumbfounded.  My first thought was that maybe Shepard could turn around and talk to this thing again.  Nothing.

Here's just a few examples:

1> "Synthetic life will always rebel against its creators" -  Shepard remains mute.  She just brought peace to the Quarians and the Geth, and found out that the Geth weren't the ones who rebelled.  EDI wants nothing more than to fit in with people and essentially be "human."  You proved it can be done with a little effort.  And Shepard didn't even challenge his bizare theory.  The Shepard we know would never have walked away from that conversation.

2> "I know you want to destroy us" - Ok, so you're showing me the option to blow you up.. but instead you won't just call off the reapers so we can try and work something out peacefully?   Supposedly the Catalyst was originally going to tell Shepard that he lost control of the Reapers which is why he can't help.  Why would you cut this dialog out?  That is very important to the scene.  Otherwise, this conversation makes no sense.  Regardless, Shepard would have said something.

3> "Do you think you can control us?" - It's going to kill her, with no guarantee of success, and for who knows how long, and she doesn't question it.  It first sounds like a very noble way to ensure all sentient life lives, but it could ultimately doom the galaxy.  But hey, Shepard will just take a wild guess to determine the fate of the entire galaxy.  No questions are needed, right?

4> "Synthesis.  The final evolution" - This is the worst one:  She's very quick to almost accept that synthesis is OK if it brings peace, with no questions.  Really?  Shepard has been fighting since ME1 to preserve life, and let sentient life make decisions for it's own.  She even taught synthetics (Legion and EDI) that they deserve the same as organics by choosing for themselves.  She faught tooth and nail against anyone that tried to play god (or tried to promote synthesis!)  Hell, she just said 45 seconds ago "we'll keep our own form."  But now she seems almost OK with this method with no convincing needed.  All of that progress to help make things "right" since ME1 is thrown out the window.  The Shepard we know would have said something. Anything.

When people say "my decisions didn't matter" this is what they're talking about.  Your decisions did not even urge Shepard to defend everything she's faught for since ME1.. at all.   Even if in the end you were forced to choose 1 of the 3 paths... Shepard would have put up a fight.


The Catalyst and The Reapers

If what this character is saying is true.. it single-handedly ruined the whole allure of the Reapers.  You have this dark, menacing, evil threat that is harvesting organics in order to upgrade/add to themselves.  Pretty interesting, and scary.

But now, you have this entity who tells you they're just tools, to fill some purpose that makes no sense if this is true.

The only way you can make this solution logically, was if he in fact only cared about the Reapers surviving, and no one else.  To put it simply: they can't risk their harvesting source being eliminated by it's own hand.  But Shepard doesn't even question the reaper's methods, and the catalyst's bizare reasoning.


Final notes

I enjoyed the majority of the ME series tremendously, and I'm trying to not let this ruin the experience for me.  Casey Hudson did an amazing job holding this project together for an entire connected trilogy.  The first 99% of ME3 was great, and then it took a nose dive.  I just find it disheartening that Casey Hudson would let Shepard (and the Reapers) go out with a "meh."

I'm not looking for a changed outcome to the ME universe.  I'm not looking for a happy ending.  I'm not looking to "see how everything goes" after Shepard saves the day.   All I wanted is to see Shepard go out fighting for everything she has done in the trilogy.  And she gave up right at the last few minutes and became a mindless zombie.

It's not that the outcome should even be changed, it should be "filled in" much better than it was.  It wasn't satisfying.  There was missing dialog, missing scenes (Anderson/conduit),  missing questions, and a just plain missing "Shepard."

I haven't really said anything until now, but I would like to get my opinions across, so they aren't lost in the supposed "unvocal majority" that likes the ending.   Even if it's just one more voice that steps out of the shadows, then maybe it will make a difference.

I'm not angry over the ending.. but I'm very disappointed.

[Ashtarth1]

 Expansion/DLC: STORM THE CITADEL


IF you got the extra breathtaking scene, we regain control of Shepard AT THAT MOMENT with Harbinger still looming overhead and Anderson and the Allies running interference (infantry reinforcements, air fighter support, maybe they brought up some AA guns, whatever, there's a fight going on).

At this moment we get resolution on what happened to Shepard's squadmates.  Maybe they are there to dig Shepard out of the rubble, or are desperately fighting against Harbinger alongside Anderson.  The Normandy crash scene should mean they're not dead, but the cut content might mean they are critically wounded: an opportunity for some dialogue.

And then some dialogue with Harbinger just for Hollywood's sake.  You guys should never turn down the opportunity to make a Reaper look like a stone cold badass (Sovereign anyone?).  How about Harbinger is enraged by its utter failure to break Shepard's will, and Shepard's Paragon/Renegade backtalk can inspire the troops.

After this, I think naturally what comes next would be Shepard (and squad?), with encouragement/dialogue from Anderson, Coats and others, would make a death run into the Conduit beam in a cutscene.

And then... I mean, you're on the Citadel now.  There's an excuse for hours more halfwall gunfights.  We could also run into C-Sec/Citadel Militia with Bailey, Septimus Oraka, and maybe Aria's mercenaries working together to protect the Council.  Shepard could charge in and break the encirclement and we could actually get more from those characters other then "oh yeah those guys all died deal with it."

Iunno the ball's in your court after that point, BioWare.  This amounts to nothing more than scribbling and bibbling anyway.

Modifié par Ashtarth1, 21 mars 2012 - 08:07 .

[ZerebusPrime]

What I want...

For starters, I support Indoctrination Theory. It's genius and if it wasn't intended it should have been.

I want a payoff for taking different story paths throughout the trilogy so that replayability is no longer bottlenecked by the end. That means a variety of endings both good and bad, fully fleshed out without the need for handwaving or smoke and mirrors.

And I want a proper boss battle that combines the best aspects of ME1 and ME2's boss battles, perhaps the Illusive Man becoming Harbinger's new avatar. I believe the story says that the Illusive Man has traveled to the Citadel and by ME1 canon opening the arms of the Citadel can best be done in the Council chambers, so we could even have the final boss fight in (roughly) the same location as in the first game.

[JC426]

Firstly I must say that 99% of the game is brilliant, a near worthy end to the trilogy but like many others I was disappointed by the limited control over the ending, that it suddenly through up so much new information which seemed to contradict what had gone before.  Although disappointed, I was tolerant of the three choices until I saw the Normandy flying away with crew who had been on Earth with me, how and why they and the ship were where they were made no sense in relation to the story.

I had hoped that the final mission / battle would be the biggest and longest all 3 games and something more akin to ME2 where your entire crew was involved in a desperate battle for victory and not what we got.  Myself, I would like a "heroes" ending for Shepard where the Crucible is a weapon to destroy any Reaper tech but it needs the power of the Citadel to operate.  Once activated all Reapers get hit by the "energy wave", the Reapers fall to the ground dead in London and then the scene cuts the ongoing battles above Earth with all the asesembled fleets and on all the major planets in the Galaxy like Thessia, Palavan and Tuchunka as the wave hits the soldiers cheer. 

[JmyRoman]

when me 3 was released i thought that when i was done with my first playthrough i would want to play through the game several more times. That is totally not the case. i played through me1 and me2 several times to set up different scenarios to play through me3 several times but i honestly do not want to given the ending. I still have to give credit for an amazing, awesome, epic ride right up to the ending/last 20 minutes. It feels like right after you destroy cerberus headquarters the player is then rushed to the ending.

we do need those optional different endings that provide closure. there should be the option for a happy ending everyone lives, bitter sweet ending with a mix of some living some dying based on your actions of course, then there is the ending where the galaxy is lost. regardless of which ending or endings that are available there should have been more possible endings based on your actions.
Still each ending needs to have real closure for your character and those in your direct squad, those major decisions that affected races and the galaxy.

Mass Effect 3 is the end game for this trilogy so as far as leaving some mystery for us to figure out does not fit, that is what the first two games are for. In ME3 everything is supposed to be on the table.

The different possible endings for ME3 are the rewards for completing this trilogy. It should make us want to play through the story again, and then the trilogy again. It does not seem worth it to replay through it again given the current conclusion(s), and I so want to play through this adventure again.

Lots of Fans do not feel a sense of accomplishment when done with ME3.
the bonuses for completing this trilogy need to be worth it.
The ending(s) for this trilogy need to be worth it.

But what is there prior to the ME3 ending is superb,excellent, epic, awesome, powerfull, memorable.

Still a fan.

[T_elic]

You know, you'd think that after Bioware told people they were listening, and after confirming that they are working on the issue people would shut the **** up and go on with their lives.

But nope. Apperantly it isn't enough that bioware took notice and is actually doing this as a service to you, nope, they have to do it your freaking way as well.

Really, considering the pile of steaming **** that calls itself the fanbase of bioware, bioware has to deal with every single day i would totally respect their decision to just say "**** you all, no matter what we do, you're hating us for it anyways"

[wj_1985]

Hey BioWare, if you are reading this, thanks for listening.

I'm writing this mainly to reply to Dr. Ray Muzyka's recent statement regarding fan's reaction to the ending, I have a feeling BioWare is really listening so I decided to pitch in.

I just have to say, I am a casual player, I played through the ME trilogy with just one play-through, I didn't have time for the multiple playthroughs. I also did not play any other BioWare games... Mass Effect is my only experience with BioWare.

However, I have to say I have nothing but great admiration for the staff for its quality production. Especially the writing staff, the fictional universe they created to let the gamers immerse themselves in is just incredible. Players have a seamlessly infinite choices, interactions, and decisions to make, everyone's Shepard's journey (and face) feels tailored and unique, for a RPG game, it doesn't get better than that.


With that said, I respect BioWare's artistic vision immensely. I want to make that clear because Dr. Ray Muzyka seem to think people don't respect theirs.


BUT, the ending was a huge disappointment. It was inconsistent with the tone, the quality, and amount of detail that was available every minute before the ending. It was sloppy, forced, illogical and filled with plot holes. It lead to more questions than answers. Destroying mass relays (isn't that worse than a reaper invasion)? Squadmates appearing on Normandy after the charge to the beam? Stranded on random planets with no where to go and technology to survive? Entire galaxy of aliens stranded in Sol system???? I'm sure many don't like the logic behind synthetics killing organics to save organics thing, in fact there's no logic behind it.


As for the artistic vision concern... this is just my two cent... but writings in videogames are different than movies/books, unless it's a game which player have no input of the decisions of the plots. I wouldn't have a problem with this ending if this game plays like, Uncharted, which is also a great game mixed with storytelling and action fighting, but doesn't allow players to make important decisions in the game.


But one of Mass Effect's main appeal is the platform/universe that it provided gamers to have an adventure in. (to be honest: most of the critical acclaim were from the storytelling/role-playing aspect, not the combat) It is one of the most personal gaming experience ever created, from a player's appearance, to countless decisions (many with major impact to the story), dialog options... that's why many players don't rush to finish the game, instead they spend time try to discover every possible details in every corner of every planet, looking for that fulfilling sci-fi lore that the writers masterfully created.

Forcing such an ending only exist in mediums which there is no interaction with the consumer, like movies and books, not in a game which players spent hundred of hours trying to perfect the decisions to save the galaxy, but only to find out that in the long run, all the endings are the same, Shepard manage the eliminate reaper threat no matter how good/bad/crappy he/she was.

Basically the ending killed the biggest positive reinforcement (psychology term) that fans of this trilogy were waiting for... see how their decisions play out in the end. Forcing millions of Shepards out there the same exact ending is harsh.

The journey of the game is rewarding, we get to see how our good or deliberately bad decisions play out. The feedback system (the writing and the story) is so rich and incredible that's why people play the game so many times. We get to solve centuries old galaxy problems or make it worse. Our decisions matter were the theme of the game.

I know the decisions technically matters towards the end of the game, but through some algorithm that coverts these personal decisions into soul-less numerical value then sums it up as galactic readiness percentage. Then the percentage impacts the ending, not the major choices regarding the LI, races, allies, enemies, etc.

Nobody is denying that the 5 year long journey of Mass Effect trilogy is great, but we were blindsided by the destination of the journey, almost everyone is stuck at a destination that nobody wants or expected, that's why many feel that the ending ruin the game and hoped they didn't spend so much time making so many versions of shepards.

Let me assure you that changing the ending will only bring more revenue to the company, paying or free DLC. it makes new comers of Mass Effect3 wanting to buy the previous ME1 and ME2 to to play through the full journey (because truthfully the current ending makes replay value worthless). It also will boost up sales for the current game, because it made a big enough fuss, it will draw significant interest when they hear the ending is fixed and is now worth it to play.

Again I totally respect the artistic vision of BioWare, I just hope the mostly epic game trilogy that they created is one of the most interactive and personal gaming experience ever, and the 3-color endings actually ruin its legacy.



Oh and may I suggest, the best way to fix the ending is to hire the guy who came up with indoctorination theory... it made so much sense to me, it fixes so much plot holes, that I thought it was real at first.  I thought BioWare pulled out a genius move that put player's emotional engagement to the game to another level.... then the final hours app came out and i was so disappointed haha. 

Modifié par wj_1985, 21 mars 2012 - 08:15 .

[TSC_1]

I'd just like to say that I think Bioware might want to keep an eye on this poll.

[ojrac]

First off, I appreciate the guts it takes to kill characters at all, particularly without giving the player the option to save them. For the most part, the characters who died were handled with incredible dignity -- Mordin, Thane and Miranda's deaths all felt heroic and true to the character.

I've also never been so emotionally invested in a game. My Shepard was with Tali in ME2-3, and I loved the development of the story for the Geth, Quarians and Legion. I loved that I could make peace between the two and give them a happy future. I was genuinely surprised by how much Shepard's promise to build Tali a house on the homeworld meant to me -- and I decided that was Shepard's motivation as the game went on, even more than saving Earth. If Shepard and Tali didn't build that house together, then Shepard lost his war.

So, let's break the ending into the things you can control, and the things you can't, given Shepard's motivation. No matter what:
 - Shepard will destroy the mass relays, dividing the galaxy he spent so long uniting.
 - Shepard will be at least one mass relay jump away from Tali and his crew, a distance that would take a lifetime or more to cover, if they even knew which direction to fly.
 - The Quarian flotilla will be stuck half a galaxy away from their homeworld; even if they had enough fuel and supplies for the trip, they would spend more time traveling than the hundreds of years they spent at war with the Geth.

My Shepard only had one choice: after spending two games trying to bring the Geth and the Quarians together, and after giving the Geth true sentience, Shepard has to choose between dying on the crucible and destroying the Geth.

I'm sure everyone plays Mass Effect differently. I take two passes at the game -- first, a rush through the main storyline, where (in ME2) I killed off all but two of my squad, and didn't even meet Tali before destroying the Collector base. Then, I read about the endings and choices, decided what story I wanted to play, and did everything, including most of the DLC. I got the ending I wanted, and I was ready for ME3.

So, now that I've finished my rushed play-through, normally I would start over, try all the side-quests, check out the DLC and all that, but I can't. I literally can't bring myself to even play multiplayer -- which doesn't even have a story! I can't play this game, because there's nothing to
fight for. My first "quick" run actually got me the best ending there is: Shepard sacrificed himself rather than destroy the Geth. He had the same choice as Thane, whose life was only worth a few painful weeks; he had nothing to live for, so the choice was clear. Tali was out of reach, Rannoch was even farther; Shepard was better off this way. The ending was depressing, miserable, and humiliating: according to my story, Shepard lost everything worth fighting for, and spent his last minutes being forced to choose between committing suicide or genocide of a race he helped achieve sentience.

I respect the game you've made. I've never cared so much about a set of game characters, and as a work of art, I can only admire your achievements. But the story I played via your game was genuinely painful to experience. I would even enjoy the dark, tragic ending, if it was just one version of the story. Shepard said "there's always another way," but  in the end, there wasn't. The best I can do is uninstall Origin and forget your version of the story.

Modifié par ojrac, 21 mars 2012 - 08:14 .

[Reaper Kitten of Doom]

Hi there Bioware team!

Mass Effect 3 is a fantastic game. I have been enjoying your games ever since Planescape and Baldurs.
The Mass Effect series are the best games ever made i.m.o.
I would like to send a special thank you to the people writing all the codexes and planet descriptions.
So much work, so little cred.

What I would like changed:

I want to be able to get the "best" ending on my first playthrough without being forced to do MP, download app's or whatever else there is.

I have no issue with the Catalyst ending, but would like to know more about what happend to my squad and the milky way innhabitants after the sacrifice. The ending cutscenes were to short and few for a series I invested 140 hours or so in.

Thank you for all your hard work. I look forward to more RPG games in the Mass Effect universe.

[BCMakoto]

Some of my thoughts on the issues at hand.

1.) "The overall theme of sacrifice"

I said it many times, and I will say it once again: Mass Effect cannot end, even if Shepard lives, without the theme of sacrifice beeing voiced. We have assembled hammer and sword, and trough what? Sacrifice. Will we ever
forget how Mordin Solus sacrificed himself to save the Krogans, to give them a second chance?
Will we ever forget how Thane died at our side, while we were praying for his (Or our) peace? Will we forget
Legions attempt to transmit the Code to the Geth, sacrificing his own intelect?

Will we forget all those smaller people who have fallen to unite everyone? The son of the Primarch, Nihlus at the beginning, Kaidan Alenko/Ashley Williams. Even if Shepard lives, stands to his promise with two little
blue children and Liara... sacrifice will always be there.

I was so emotionaly hit by Mordins and Thanes death that I was actually ready to tear Harbinger to pieces with my biotics. For everything he did, for every single life the Reapers eradicated over the past billion years.

Give us good endings, but remind us in them what we lost on the way. What our friends got.

2.) "Show us the impact. Make reuniting with our ex-squadmates memorable."

Whatwe build up in the last games isn't easy to explain. We came to care for our squadmates, helping them with the most desperate missions and their deepest wishes (For example Morinth for Samara) bound them
together like nothing else. If Hammer is an army, all of them together are something more. They are unstopable. In the end, show us that friendship.

For example: As you proceed trough the city, you get a comm from Samara, stating that she has trouble. Make her say something like: "Shepard. After all we have done together...it was an honor serving with you.".
Then she disconnects and you have the chance to get to her if you do it right.

And if you reach her in time, make Shepard blast his way trough Husks, reaching her, giving us a little dialog, along
the lines: "Oh no! You do not die on me now Samara!". If this could change for the "Romance" option in Mass Effect II has to be seen.

Or make Shepards who were close with Thane (Maybe even romanced him) hear his voice while shooting Reapers, quoting some of his famous lines like: "A prayer...for the wicked.". Make Shepard regain his strenght.

It is a lot of work. But I know: You could do it, Bioware. You sure could. Give us the emotion of our squad...of this friendship that shakes every odd. Hell, I would write them myself if I had to if you give us this
emotional attachment in words.

3.) "In a Story like this, the hero has to die."

That was quoted by some fans of the ending. Even if they are the minority, they are out
there. That Shepard has to die...is simply wrong. Did Frodo die in Lord of the Rings? Did Harry Potter die? Did Nathen Algren die in Last Samurai?

In a game of choices, make it possible for Shepard to survive. Talking about sacrifice: Is it a sacrifice to be forced into a worthy action?

There can be endings where Shepard dies a heroic death. For example: War assets less
then 3000. The Sword has no way of defeating the Reapers. Shepard is the person at choice.
He has the choice: "Run away with his love interest and try to flee the inevitable, or to actually pull of the Paragon
action.". Make him turn around, watch the stars. Make him think... of all we had, of all we lost...of all he will save. Then he can turn around and sprint into every beam there is.

This would be a sacrifice. If he would sacrifice himself so everyone could be happy. But not for
some starchild. Yes, cheesy, but people like such things. We get enough bad news in real-life (I decently point to france). Make us able to get ahappy one here if we really try.

But also give us an ending where Shepard emerges out of the rubble, Garrus helping him up,
laughing. "We did it Shepard." and Shepard giving one of his famous answers, like: "Yes Garrus.
Didn't notice the best Sniper on the Citadel however...was he taking a break?". Show us the Sword, winning over the
Reapers.

Or give us a really bad ending. Let an unknown alien race pick up the message in the stars. Let it count what we always had in Mass Effect: Choice. And reflect on them.

4.) "Make the Reapers a big threat again."

I do not know how others feel, but after I heard the Star-child talking, I lost every sense of "The big evil Reapers.". It completly killed their image.

The Reapers were always a race of beeings that shaked the very ground by only providing fear. They were mysterious machines. Not some toys of Casper who created them for an utmost unlogical reason. If I remember Sovereign talking about his species on Virmirre...well...I feared him. He appeared superior, he appeared to be an evil decending on the galaxy.

When I listen to the starchild though, they appear not so evil anymore. The Reapers were only robots, made and controlled by such a beeing for a stupid reason. In no way it adds to the impression of the Reapers beeing a threat. It degrades them. To something they shouldn't be.

They were the Nightmare of races, for billions of years. Give them back that feeling. Do not make them the toy of a ghost child. Make them the incarnation of evil...make them what they were...a race of sentinent synthetic beeings which appeared superior over everyone...and everything.

5.) "Handle Talis big revelation in a fitting way."

I do, in no way, want to order you anything about how to picture a character you have made up. But seriously, is a Photoshopped image from gettyimage the only thing Tali deserves?
Tali was always an interesting character. She was the contradiction to everyone on the Normandy. We all knew, to some extend, that this was a military operation. That life was hard, and you get propably eaten by a Reaper. But everytime Tali spoke, I simply had to smile. She appeared innocent, and she still does in Mass Effect III.

She went with Shepard trough good and bad, trough easy and suicide, for three games. And this, THIS image, is what she gets for her big revelation?

Bioware, the quarian face was as big as a mystery as nothing else in the Mass Effect universe. No hints, no clues, not even a single picture. And now, to finally reveal it like this? Why? What did you think? You have time to make all those epic cutscenes, for example the Messagein the stars, Mordins death, Thanes prayers...You can make a romance scene for Ashley and Liara...but the only thing Tali gets is a photoshopped image and a little dialog with Shepard?

Don't you think you put injustice to a long standing companion in the series?

Why not let her take of her mask, while the fleets decent onto Rannoch in the evening light, and as Shepard walks up to her she takes of the hood and turns towards him. And why this human appereance? We all knew she could not be an Elcor. But can't we expect some more things then two edited fingers and white eyes? Not ugly...but distinctable from humans?

Modifié par LPKerberos, 21 mars 2012 - 08:23 .

[FS3D]

ThePasserby wrote...

I'll keep it simple.

1. Shepard is an epic hero, not a tragic hero. Epic heroes have epic endings.

There is nothing that sets Shepard up as being fatally flawed or having committed a flawed act. Many of us, especially Paragon Shepards, play him as an epic hero. As such, the expectations that the player brings to the game is one that includes an epic ending, not one in which Shepard perishes in his bid to achieve what is at best a pyrrhic victory.

2. The ME series are games, and as games, players want to win.

Shepard single-handedly destroying the galactic economy and stranding the biggest armada ever assembled in the Sol system is not winning; it is a pyrrhic victory. In other words, he gave his life to secure a doubtful win.

3. Follow conventional story structure. You don't have to break away from it just to be "artistic"

It worked for ME1, didn't it? Keep to the structure:

i. The setting and introduce main characters.

ii. Rising action

iii. Climax

iv. Falling action

v. Resolution (<----- Not the right place to introduce new characters and plot devices)
 
4. Make players' choices matter. Don't negate them with an ending that drastically alters the galaxy and putting them in question

The quarian and geth peace is all for naught when they can't get back home, for example.

+1

[Kyran2401]

Biowares ability to create in depth story and tough decisions is difficult to rival and since KotOR ive been a huge fan of their work. However, i was fairly disappointed with the ending to the otherwise excellent series of Mass Effect... there are several ways i think this can be improved.

1- Choices
Personally i felt as though the choices i had made throughout the series had little impact on the ending of the game. for example i chose to re-write the geth heretics during mass effect 2 and legion basically said this was a mistake during mass effect 3. This should have then had larger consequences than it did ie, heavy quarian casualties and as a result, an inability to forge an alliance between the two races.

2- War assests
In my opinion the idea of war assets is brilliant! However, i do feel as though they didnt contribute much to the final battle on Earth. This could easily have been remedied with a few simple cut-scenes, ie the Elcor 'living tanks' providing suppressive fire for waves of charging Krogan soldiers etc.

3- Earth
I personally really enjoyed the final battle on earth, lots of intense combat and wave after wave of enemy reinforcements added to the sense of desperation of the plan. The addition of the communicator allowing contact with the old crew was a nice touch. However, i was expecting something a little more like the suicide mission from ME2... i liked the idea of sending various squad members off to complete certain tasks and having their fate rest on decisions i had previously made. I was a little disappointed that this type of gameplay didnt re-appear.

4- Endings
Personally, i like the indoctrination theory, this would be a very welcome twist to the series and as i know from KotOR- Bioware are good with twists.

This video, sums up the theory in a great deal of depth.

The possible endings have very little variation from eachother (all resulting in the relays and the citadel being destroyed) despite the choices you make throughout the series. There should be endings greater diversity in terms of exactly what is destroyed and to the extent of damage caused to the galaxy. This would ideally be influenced by your military strength.

i do not have a problem with Shepard sacrificing himself for the sake of the galaxy, that in my opinion is an acceptable act of heroism, however it should be possible to achieve an ending where he can survive depending on certain criteria being met, ie full renegade/paragon, a military strength over a certain limit, having particular war assets such as old crew members etc.

the catalyst/ child created more questions than it answered.

some closure on the fate of the crew and the rest of the galaxy would be appreciated aswell. i still dont know how my team got to earth in time for my speech and then somehow they are back on the normandy flying through a mass relay before crash landing on a planet.

i saw an idea for a better ending somewhere on the forum which i liked. During the game, liara comes to visit shepard in his cabin and reveals her time capsule project to him. perhaps instead of the stargazer telling the story to the child, it could be the time capsule?

thanks for reading my thoughts, hope they help

[MoSa09]

A few thoughts on the recent blog entry on Mr. Muzyka.

In all matter of fair politeness it is good to see a response from BioWare. I do not agree with all the statements he makes, but i do appreciate him responding.

But then, there are some points to make to revisiting the endings as he mentioned. Reading this thread, which is 167 pages of great ideas by now, is a lot to draw insperiation and feedback from. There has been a lot of misconception that the Retake fans are just whiners, want their happy love ending, do not respect artistic freedom or are just angry and enitled mob.

This is not the case. Most cases made revolve around the same issues. I have tried to categorize them into broader bullet points

1. Mass Effect promised closure to Shepards storyline, the Shepard storyarc coming to an end and questions answered. The current ending does not deliver on this. The frequently mentioned "speculation" is nothing i have paid money for, i paid to see the ending instead of imagining the ending. Rather bluntly speaking, speculating i can do for free and save the money for something else.

2. Previous Mass Effect games promised choices influences the ongoing story, essentially shaping the story we play. The very same was promised and advertized for Mass Effect 3. The current ending does not live up to that promise. Regardless how you play, the ending is all the same. Moreoever, the actual ending is forcing you along a predefined path to select one of 3 endings. At that point, no more interactivity is required at all but the whole scene runs on a preset train to pick a, b, or c (which was speficially promised would not be the case).

3. Wildly different endings, 16 in total, were announced. Moreoever, all previous choices and actions were said to come into play. The current ending does not live up to that. In the end, no previous choice but ems rating matter at all. Moreoever, despite technically slightly different, the ending are all 90 percent alike, and the greatest difference is in explosion color.

4. A  non bespoken ending, where our choices would matter and Shepard not being forced into a canon plotline, was said to happen. Yet the ending is an almost autoplay scene with rapidly decreasing input from player site, that results in the very same outcome regardless of choice (mass relays destroyed, Joker fleeing and Normandy crashing, Shepard dying due to a perceived tragic quality).

5. Nonsensical arguments, massive plotholes as well as breaking characters and lore.

With all due respect to Biowares artistic freedom telling their story the way see fit, living up to premade promises and statements is i do think not disputing creativeliberty. I will therefore politely ask that if Bioware actually decides to address the ending, that in telling their story, they respect player concern and stick to their promises and the ongoing theme and characteristics of the series in the way their story unfolds.

[KLGChaos]

The problems that most people had with the ending start with the god-child. Much of what it says and does, completely contradicts previously established lore as well as introducing several huge plot holes into the story (and way too much coincidence)..

The RGB color selection after that just drives home something that many of us found disturbing-- this is not our Shepard. It's not the character we've played for three games, it's not the man (or woman) who defied all odds and swore to never give up. We're not even given an option to refuse. That upsets many of us. The game has always been about defying the odds and overcoming the impossible. The end just didn't fit with those established themes.

War Assests didn't play enough of a role. Returning friends and races should have had more of a role in the end than just being a number. Just like how the armor plating, shielding and guns helped change things in ME2, upgrading the galactic forces should have had a similar outcome here. Wrex, Grunt and the Krogan come to get Shep out of trouble, saving a squad mate who would die otherwise, Jack and her students supporting the front line, Jacob and Miranda fighting side by side again, the various races you helped carving a swath through the enemy for you-- the list can go on.

The truth is, plot holes aside, an explanation is not really needed as most of us can at least see what Bioware was trying to do. We just didn't like it because it forced us down a narrow path after having so much choice up to that point.

And in the end, mostly what we're looking for, outside of the fixing of the plot holes and lore contradictions, is a real conclusion based on our choices over the three games-- from a happy ending (Shep retiring on Rannoch with Tali, having blue babies with Liara, etc) to a sad one (galaxy wiped out because Shepard didnt try hard enough). For a game that even added multiplayer to please as many players as possible, and given the history of the games multitude of paths and choices, this should have been priority number one. That's what makes ME3's ending so hard to swallow-- the fact that no matter which of my seven characters I load up, it all leads to the same outcomes that completely defy everything that my Shepard stood for. All my choices rendered meaningless and funneled down the same exact path as everyone else. That isn't Mass Effect. It should have been the conclusion to OUR Shepard's story and it wasn't. It was the conclusion to Bioware's Shep, not ours. And that's what we're really looking for in the ending.

The game was incredible until that point. We all love the work Bioware does and love the ME series. That's why not having the option to finish the game the way we want (or at least having several different options to please people who wanted a certain type of ending, depending on what they did previously) hurts us so much.

[die-yng]

Now that we know that you guys are going to be working on the ending, let me state that I still hope you include an all around happy ending option for the game.

I have no problem with Anderson dying or even with your last two squadmates dying (I can always take the two I don't like with me), but let the rest survive and leave Shep alive to enjoy his reward.
Since I believe the relay network can be rebuild, destroying it would be fine as well, but make sure that you can see that not every system with a relay gets obliterated.

I know and understand that many wouldn't choose this kind of ending for their Shepard's but to me a  happy ending would be very important and I believe there are a lot of other people who think so as well.

We just want our lot of blue children, dear sirs and madam, please don't take that away from us.

And let me add that i think it is awesome and well deserving for a developer like Bioware to listen to their fans in that way.
These may have been a bit of a letdown for your team, but if you fix this mess, I think you'll gain much lenience, loyalty and goodwill from your fanbase. I know that it will be the case for me.

[Seracen]

Another quick note I forgot earlier (so many thoughts on this, it's hard to keep them straight)...I would also like to see ramifications for War Assets accrued in the "Take Back Earth" mission. Let me see rachni or geth engaging Reaper forces. Let's see an Elcor artillery raid, or a Vorcha kamikaze assault. Heck, let me see my multiplayer assets on the field.

I think Angry Joe's video summarizes better than I could...


Again, great work in all other venues of the game, but the ending seemed ill-concieved. I also immeidately thought of the endings to the original Deus Ex, back in the 90's.  I can appreciate the complexity of factoring all our choices, but that's what Bioware does best, please don't sell short now, here at the end.  Thank you again for your consideration.

Modifié par Seracen, 21 mars 2012 - 08:50 .

[Chitzen Itza]

My suggestion is to adopt the Indoctrination theory as canon and then just expand the ending from there. The ending its self doesn't need to be changed at all, only added to.

[wickermoon]

This ****ing laptop...god. and a THIRD time! >_<

1. Don't retcon the current ending per se. We don't want to take those, that liked the current ending, their ending away.

2. Create an optional DLC where the Starchild and the all of what happened thereafter is retconned. No marooning please!

3. It would be nice - but not necessary - if our war assets would influence some of the cut-scenes before and during the earth missions. Have some Geth fighters save a Quarian ship (if you made them work together, that is), or have the Quarian ship get destroyed (if not), or let the Quarian ship survive if you've gathered enough War Assets

4. Depending on EMS and decisions on the Citadel, let Shepard successfully fight the indoctrination or succumb to it. This could very well be a decision point. If he succumbs, the Reapers just win (or, if you had enough war assets (and I mean tons of it) the Galaxy might win with heavy losses. Just a suggestion, though)).

5. Have an ending, where Shepard survives and make it really hard to get (I speak of 100% Awareness and tons of war assets), as I don't think that this is the intended ending

6. Let the endings have more variety

7. A cut-scene of how the final battle fares and ends, depending on the war assets and decisions made in me1 to me3

8. Show an "aftermath" of

- what happens to the galaxy
- what happens to the civilizations and how do my decisions work out (e.g.: everlasting peace between geth and quarians? I hope so! Legion shouldn't have died in vain. So sad!)
- what happens to the reapers (?)
- what happens to all of my squadmates (ME1 to ME3)
- what happens to Joker + EDI
- what happens to Dr. Chakwas
- what happens to Kelly Chambers
- what happens to those two technicians
- what happens to TV lady
- what happens to Anderson
- what happens to Hackett
- what happens to TIM (if he survived?)
- what happens to Shepard + LI (even if shepard dies, the LI would be most important, I'd say)
- what happens to characters I met more than once during my journeys

9. Things I DO want to know about the reapers:

- Did they evolve to what they are now or were they created and rebelled
- What is / was their real purpose
- IF they were created, just give a HINT on who. Only a hint

10. Things I DO NOT want to know about the reapers:

- How long have they been reaping
- Who exactly(!) created them

I say this because the ME universe - as every other universe - needs some mysteries to be interesting. You shouldn't explain every little detail. Makes the whole universe uninteresting.



Do I want ALL of those points to be taken care of? Sure, I'd love that. But I understand if you - BioWare - aren't able to address all those points. They're not equally important. But there are several that are especially important and shouldn't miss. For example, the summaries of what happened to those "third-party" characters as the reporters isn't all that necessary, but your squadmates + Joker is. This is just a list of what I'd like to see.


I think you guys and girls at bioware realized that we don't want to destroy your game and that we're not the entitled gamers the press would everyone like to believe we are. We don't want the super-happy-ending, but we would like for it to make sense, to satisfy and to give us closure. I hope everyone here could convey this feeling. We don't want to work against you, we want to work with you to create a truly epic game, the like of which has not yet been seen! Thank you for taking the time to read all these suggestions and considering them. This already is a step in the right direction and a big sign of your good will to work with us in a constructive manner.

Thank you and Ciao,
wiki

edit: Oh yeah, one last thing: Destroying the mass effect relays is kind of a negative. I would like to limit this event to only happen on certain endings that tend more towards a bad ending.

Modifié par wickermoon, 21 mars 2012 - 08:38 .

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Things I'd like to see out of the new content:

* A way to avoid massive dextro-starvation and stranding. It would be nice if people could go back to their homeworlds safely. (Re: Relay Destruction)

- Perhaps make them decay instead of blow up? Or not blow up at all? This is a massively bad part of the ending. Very depressing and sad, kills the heart of the series.

* If my Shepard survives, I'd like him to be with his LI and crew, even if they have to be stranded, (I prefer that they be not, I would have liked to build that house on Rannoch that was teased.)

* Please insert a Harbinger confrontation somewhere. The ending would have been much better if it was between Harbinger and Shepard. Perhaps reveal the Catalyst is the Harbinger making concessions to Shepard? (It makes no sense Shepard would trust the being in control of the Reapers.)

* The Catalyst encounter needs a heavy revamp. Adding him to the ending was a bad decision - adding him at the last second felt cheap and contrived. I have a hard time seeing how you could fix this beyond making him a fake tool of the Reapers. You seem to dislike that suggestion. Good luck?

* The game _needs_ some kind of post ending closure with the characters. Not a slideshow, but you talking to your crew and your LI. If it _has_to be autodialog in a cutscene, that's fine. Just something to close out on to make you happy if you made good choices and had high EMS. (It's OK for Shepard to die if you screw up.) But seeing Joker abscond with my LI in an Adam/Eve metaphor feels almost like Bioware trolling me.

Side Note:

* In a future DLC, if you modelled Tali's face in game and revealed it, that would be nice and be better than the whole "photoshopped face" thing.

Modifié par PKchu, 21 mars 2012 - 08:36 .

[Jawsomebob]

I think that expanding on the indoctrination theory but allowing you to break it and then achieve final victory in an extended playable action sequence/ending with a satisfying cutscene would be the best ending.
Of course if your indoctrinated...your LI should put you down and then say "I love you" and it should show them beating the reapers.

Also people want choices to matter so this will make LI important:
Notice the higlighted part. I think it would be a great conquence for
cheating on a love interest or having more than one..also will make
choices matter:



It should work like this:


Control...your fully
indoctrinated...you will be put down by LI or you will kill your LI
because of indoctrnation and get put down by someone else...or if
possible you can choose to avoid that as well and kill everyone and
actually ensure a reaper victory. Basically they try to capture you to
take you in for questioning...you can either resist right away and only
get to kill a few people or pretend to come out of the indoctronation
only to kill everybody when you get to the doctor at the main
incampment. The only way to break the full indoctranation is if you only
had one LI the entire game...even if you romanced them first in
ME3...or you didnt romance anyone in ME1 but did and 2 and carried them
over....if they are still alive then they can break you out of it.
Otherwise you cant. One love interest for all 3 games
or your screwed for control. If you didnt Romance anyone you dont need a
LI no matter what you wont be indoctronated because your shepard is
self sufficant.



Synthesis: You are indoctrinated but their
is a chance you can recover in the next cutscene/gameplay part if you
make the right choices in the next part when you wake. After you wake
you are immedatey captured by a squadmate or your LI...you get a
renegade interput to try to put them down...if you choose this then you
cant break the indoctrnation..instead you have to submit willingly. If
you submit willingly they take you dr. chakwas who looks at your brain
and they help you try to breka the indoctrination with some questions
which you have to answer right.
After you break the indocdirnation you join in on the epic ending which partly already started without you....
If you had 1 love interest for all 3 games breaking this is uber easy. You dont even have to go to the Dr. You get a pargon or renigade option when you see your LI bringing you in...and they breaks it.


:alien::alien::alien::alien:

Detsruction:
You break the indoctronation and then proceed to stop the reapers. It
is a long epic battle...and you lead the whole way.

Modifié par Jawsomebob, 21 mars 2012 - 08:48 .

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

I also would really like to see the indoctrination theory implemented in game. It seems like the best way to salvage the Catalyst's damage to the plot.