7052 réponses à ce sujet

[FS3D]

SamFlagg wrote...

Bioware,

With the remarks today that you are attempting to try and fine tune the discrepancy between your fans and the existing artistic vision, allow me to post my most concrete suggestion for doing that.

The ending I'm suggesting perserves the attempt that was made at giving us choices by actually making them choices that are different.

One of our primary concerns was always that the choices presented to us felt as if they had no practical difference behind them.

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I realize that option this does not solve the problems of Anderson getting to the citadel first, or having to pick a renegade option to kill the illusive man, but if the ending itself gets fixed, this becomes a minor point to quibble over.  Maybe have Anderson voice that he hadn't heard from you in half an hour.

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What needs to change is the conversation upstairs.  I do not think the fact that there is a Diablos Ex Machina needs to change, but the dialogue needs to be updated in such a way as to repair the amount of nonsense we are being fed and make it at least nonsense internally consistant with the ME universe.  Heck even throw in a line suggesting that the Reapers feed on Dark Energy (It's a subtle nod to the previous plot thread)

Now the options he gives you should change slightly, they are still Destroy, Control, Synthesis, but the outcomes need to all be stated seperately and made different from each other.  The problem with the endings now is they all boil down to Shepard DiesRelays Die.  (Half second breathing video isn't closure, it's non commital)

Also as a preface, if your War Assets Score is too low, you still get the existing earth burns video.

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My suggestion of what to do with the existing options:

1.) Destroy
- Destroys the reapers, the geth, and the mass relays.  Shepard lives explicitly  (HOWEVER, the God Child needs to tell Shepard that it will kill him as well)
And by Shepard lives, I mean you actually see Shepard get up, you have your cut scene with your remaining alive squad mates in a way similar to the end of ME1.  No dialogue necessary, just an acknowledgement that Shepard is Alive and some of the squad is as well.  (I would suggest variations on the cut scene to account for all possible persons that could be alive, the cut scenes would all be superficially the same with camera pans and scans, but you could actually see people based on whether or not they were alive.)

2.) Synthesis - Does pretty much the same thing, fuses all life together with space magic, leaves the citadel and the mass relays intact.  Shepard dies.
Leaving the relays in tact is key here.  This now gives an option where you can choose to sacrifice Shepard and maintain the current galactic travel situation.  Having this ending kill Shepard as it does now is necessary to give it some narrative balance.
(Cut the Joker nonsense from the existing cutscene and don't blow up the relays, and give some sort of epilouge cut scene for all the other characters)

3.) Control
- Allows Shepard to make a Faustian Bargin with the Reapers.  Earth is saved.  The mass relays and the citadel stay.  In exchange the reapers get to reap all the other aliens of this cycle, and will then go back to dark space afterwards. Shepard dies. (Exception - If you have max renegade points Shepard lives)
While most people aren't death incarnate, there were always the ones who were really disappointed that you couldn't spend the game working for the Illusive Man.  Not only that, if you don't have enough War Assets your only options become Control or Destroy.........Destroy the mass relays and save everyone, or Control the reapers and get the mass relays for Earth and Earth alone?
(Change the cut scene and have the reapers go a reaping, if Shepard managed to live have him sitting in the catalysts room in the Illusive Man's chair watching a dying star or somesuch.  Hell throw in your LI if they're human)


---------------------
OFFER OPTION 4
---------------------

Option 4 as I describe it, is the "Go to Hell Reaper Kid" option.  It should've been there, we all wanted it.

It can either be implemented as an option before the child stops talking to you, or (even better) make it an option that only shows up if you turn back to him and start up talking to him again.

Then allow this new conversation to proceed allowing Shepard to argue back and forth with the God Child, as you argue you slowly hear the child's voice morphing into Harbingers.  (At some point I want it to be made clear that the options Harbinger offered you were actually 100% true, though he did attempt to lead you to control or synthesis, and is only compelled to offer destroy because it presumed the cost was too high for you to select)

Harbinger says "You can not leave Shepard.  Now you will die"
Shepard says "No, we will die."

--------------------------------

At this point there should be either

1.) Option 4 - a button that makes the crucible do the equivalent of the Star Trek 2 prefix code and take down the shields/barriers of every reaper in the galaxy forever and ever amen.  Then they're easily defeated conventionally

or

2) Shepard calls Admiral Hackett to focus all fire on the Citadel.  (Indicating that the Citadel is in fact the command and control structure of the reapers and its destruction basically has the same effect as option 1)

In either case the results should be: Reapers Die / Galaxy Lives / Citadel Destroyed / Mass Relays Lives / Shepard Dies*

(With enough EMS Shepard Lives)

After that it cuts to either a funeral for Anderson with eulogy given by Shepard or a funeral for Shepard given by Hackett.  And it can have all the squad members still alive in the background (and some Elcor living tanks!)  Again, preference being on a cut scene that the crowd has ME2 and ME3 characters in it that are still alive, and if they're dead swap them out for generics. (Yes it's a lot of conditional cutscening but for the RGB ending they gave us I think its probably not an unfair thing to ask)

What all of this does do however is allow them to change the ending and give us more or less the epilogue for all of the options stated, and it also means there is no additional gameplay.  I'm ok with that, because I think it would be fair easier to implement than asking them to change the ending, add all this epilogue stuff, and add new gameplay, and figure out some way to boss battle harbinger!

The scope of the change would be - rewrite parts of the entire catalyst scene
                                                                - epilogue and new cut scenes
                                                                - option 4 for the Commander Shepard who wouldn't put up with this BS.
                                                                - Elcor Living tanks.  (Er I mean, only Shepard, Hackett, GodChild, and Harbinger would have to have new dialogue, but I wouldn't mind if others did as well)

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TL/DR

Rewrite the GodChild to Make Sense
Give Shepard 4 options to Solve this dilema
1) Destroy - Shepard Lives, Reapers Die, Citadel Dies, Relays Die, Geth Die
2) Synthesis - Shepard Dies, Reapers....do whatever the hell they do in the Synthesis Ending, Citadel Stays, Relays Stay, Everybody gets synthesied.  (Maybe David Archer goes insane)
3) Control - Shepard Dies*, Citadel Stay, Relays Stay, Earth Lives, Rest of Galaxy Gonna Get Reaped
4) Sacrifice - Shepard Dies**, Citadel Dies, Relays Stay, Earth Lives, Rest of Galaxy Lives
*with high enough renegade points he lives
**with high enough EMS he lives

Add cut scenes and epilogue to make our choices feel different and to give us the wrapup that we were hoping for.

--------------------
Artistic Vision
----------------------
1.) There become 6 possible endings.  (Control and Sacrifice have Shepard Dies Shepard Lives alternates)
2.) The endings diverge in a meaningful way.
3.) In three endings shepard dies, in one ending shepard lives and loses all the relays,  in one ending Shepard lives and reaps the galaxy.  5 out of the 6 endings are bittersweet.
4.) The remaining ending sacrifice rewards players for extremely high EMS, and gives the portion of the players who would like a happy ending, that happy ending.

For the most part this allows the original vision to stay fairly in tact, while changing many of the elements people have objected too, and keeping Shepard consistant as a character who always had the option to rebel if he thought the answers he was being given were nonsense.

The synthesis ending stays largely the same while leaving the relays intact, and the destruct ending stays largely the same execpt the Shepard has to expressly live.  (And deal with the inferred holocaust)

I think it would be interesting how many people would choose Shepard over the Relays.

Plus One. The important thing here is choice, one that really means something.

[JmyRoman]

Okay so i just watched the full extended cut take earth back trailer. Now while watching this trailer you get a small glimpse as to how epic, awesome the ending was going to be. Just did not happen. the mass effect 3 endings need to be as epic as that trailer. the series deserves no less. 

While watching that trailer and then playing through that ending........its almost like that trailer was for a different game.

Bioware you have to deliver on epic endings for this trilogy.  shepherd is bringing a galaxy united armada to take earth back and destroy the reapers. that ending space and ground battles need to be more epic than that. 

[cmj428]

I want to see Mass Effect 3 go in one of two directions with the ending.
If Indoctrination theory is what BioWare intended then pick up where the end leaves off and give us the real conclusion of the battle and it's consequences.

If IT is not what was intended then make that clear, fill out the current plot holes and explain everything. Then give us some sort of epilogue.

Of course seeing the different forces we recruited kick some reaper butt would be welcome as well.

[deciett]

Just gonna leave my formal feedback here, where it's most likely to be poured over by some poor intern in cram mode at some point in time.

Gameplay, up to the ending sequence: Stellar. Phenomenal. The pure 180 degree turns the emotional tone can diverge at points in the story is astounding. My heart literally sank in my chest when my friends told me that Tali could die and the entire quarian race could be eliminated if you mishandled the conflict, as far back as your decisions on her loyalty mission in mass effect 2. I watched a youtube video of the negative outcome, and it was sad. I speak from a perspective of a Tali LI playthrough mind you, but that doesn't make it any less heartbreaking. Tali and Garrus being my favorite characters, either dying would be devastating to me.

Then there was Mordin's final moments. "Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong"... Beautiful writing here. And so dark! If you chose not to cure the genophage you got to see him go up and die for NOTHING. Again, amazing job. The final mission was well-handled too. Gave every vibe of a ground force fighting against totally insurmountable odds.

But I have to address my opinion of the ending. I really, REALLY disliked it. I'm just going to leave it at that. The WHY has been covered to no end and frankly, it doesn't matter much why. I think it's more being lied to that we would have unique endings or some closure, and I dislike the destruction of the mass relays, etc etc. I will state this to anyone listening as far as data points are concerned. If a new ending is pay only, I will buy it, but only to give myself closure after this investment. If I REALLY like the new ending, I will buy other DLC to flesh out my experience. If it's just epilogue, if it's anything short of everything that this ending isn't, that will be my first and last DLC purchase for this game.

I'm not alone in that stance. Bioware can easily regain its fanbase and bring in more than enough money to keep itself alive for DA:3 and whatever IP comes after. Your own second chance is in your hands.

[GhostV9]

Please bring back real conversations with people, everyone being like Zaeed was in ME2 was a huge disappointment. The lack of a dialog wheel and player choice really limits the roleplaying aspect of the game.

Please stop using so much auto dialog (when Shepard speaks without any player input)

Please change the ending.

[KenMasse]

I'm sure that someone must have mentioned this earlier, but it's a little bit crazy of an expectation for someone to search over 170 pages to confirm so here goes.

Tali and the quarians deserve better than a 5 minute photoshop job on a stock photo.  You've kept their appearance a secret for years and this is what was settled on as the best choice?

There are plenty of amazing concept appearances fans have created over the years.  One of those could be used if the artist permitted.  i'm sure having something appear in a game as big as ME3 would probably look amazing in anyone's portfolio.  You could even just have one of your artist's spend a day and come up with some new good looks. 

Just don't let something that should have been an amazing reveal stay that disappointing.

[cmj428]

My personal opinion is that if there was content added to the end with indoctrination theory being true, then an epic final battle and entire sequence like the suicide mission with whole races would make Mass Effect 3 one of the greatest games of all time. And then of course a possible reunion with LI and epilogue showing show Shepard shaped the future of the galaxy.

[T-Zero]

 I'm glad that Bioware has decided finally to elicit input and constructive criticism of their work.  So many of the statements that have been made since ME3 was released seemed to be stonewalling.  Allow me to thank you for taking the the time for listening.  And if you follow through - if you actively seek to improve your product with the wishes of your supporters, then you will be staying true to the tenets of the company that so many of us have come to love since the early days of Baldur's Gate.

Let me start with the changes I feel must  be made to make the game what it was supposed to be.

-The endings: of course.  The 'red, blue, green, ABC' theme must be done away with.  Each of the endings (and I'm one of those players who has played through the game more than once, in order to see all the endings) is so similar to the others that the final choice of what to do with the reapers makes no difference.  Controlling the reapers leaves them still out there, leaves all the sins they've committed against the galaxy for so long without consequence.  And the mass relays apparently are destroyed (the relay problems are present in each ending, so I won't mention them again in regards to this).  Synergy changes all life into essentially technorganic cyborgs, from the lowliest plant to star-faring civilizations.  This leaves much to be desired - not all players are transhumanists, and the idea of forcing this sort of resolution and change on all life leaves a sour taste in the mouth of this player... and many others who I've heard voice the same sentiment.  Finally, destroying the reapers.... this is what most of us figured would be climax of the series since day one.  But still, forcing us to destroy EDI and the Geth along with the reapers seemed to be twisting a knife in our side at the moment that should have been our triumph.  Still, this isn't to say that this line of thinking is completely wrong-minded - hard choices have been part of ME since the get-go, and I think that with tweaking, even this option could feel more... satisfactory, in the end.  If nothing else, give us an ending where it doesn't feel that the Reapers win.

-Lack of closure:  Casey Hudson's idea of "Lots of Speculation..."  This was, simply and straightly put, an incredibly bad idea and call.  Speculation is how you wrap up the first part of a series, not the end of a 7 year trilogy.  You leave an audience hanging in the first moments of a piece, as you pile on question after question that promises answers at the end.  This isn't the beginning, nor even the middle;  this is the end.  This is the pay-off for all the hard work and enthusiasm players and fans have put into this series over the years.  Closure is needed.  Answers are needed, the more the better.  What were the origins of the reapers?  Why has this cycle continued for umpteen million years?  Who were the creators?  What happens to the galaxy now that the threat of the reapers is gone?  What happens to the various races and npcs we've come to know and love?  

-Choices:  While mechanically the game may take into account the choices made over the series, in execution this is untrue.  16 endings... and all of them are so similar that they may as well have been rolled off an assembly line.  There needs to be more variation, where individual choices made over the series have individual consequences that alter the endings one by one.  We need to see these choices' impact on the story of the game.  As it is, they're all so far in the background that they're invisible... and, as I've said again and again, the functional outcome is so similar as to render them moot.

-Plotholes:  There are so many that you could drive a semi through them.   Let me point out one of the big ones:  The Citadel.  It's a super-impervious space station that the reapers and cerberus had both already failed to conquer.  How exactly did they do so this time?  What about the Citadel Defense Force?  And the fact that the station can close it's arms and just sit out an attack?  Nope.  We just get told that the reapers take it over thanks to TIM's work.  No explanation.

Here's some others neatly summed up; Bioware, please read this document!
https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

-Out of Character Shepard:   The final minutes of the game were so far out of character for Shepard it's ridiculous.  Here's a character who's gone through Hell and back again (literally and in many senses) and at the end he just says, "I don't know"...?  That's ridiculous.  We didn't get a chance to refute the insane troll logic of the Star Child, we didn't even get to ask any questions.  That's not how Shepard would have acted.

-Multiplayer:  While I find multiplayer fun and well realized, the fact that a player must be played in order to get the best endings must be done away with.  This game has been single-player intensive since the beginning, and making long time fans of single player go through a game mechanic which truly has no effect on the single player campaign in order to finish their game the way they want is just unfair.  

-Tali's Face:  I don't know what you guys were thinking, so I'm going to chalk this up to being overworked.  A (very poorly) photoshopped picture?  Really?  Fans of Tali have waited patiently for 3 games to see her take that mask off... to get a look at a character so compelling that she's the favorite of a very large part of the fan base, even over the other, extremely compelling characters!  What really made this feel like a slap in the face was the fact that we had the perfect scene for it when she takes off her mask at the end of the Rannoch storyline.  *Sigh*  Please, I bet even Liz Sroka would love to see the character get the attention she so deserves.

Now that the truly unpleasant business above is taken care of, I'll put up my 'wishlist'... those things I'd like to see, but which aren't necessary for the game to work.

-More impact from the Search and Rescue missions and other Galactic Readiness factors:  After all the effort I put into roaming the galaxy, searching for everyone and everything that might help during the final battle, it would have been nice to see more come out of it all than a statistic.  Imagine, if you will, that during the Battle of London we come to points wherein the force of the enemy is overwhelming... Shepard and crew are bogged down and simply unable to move through the vast forces arrayed against them.  Suddenly Geth Primes, the self-same that he won over on Rannoch, drop from the sky.  With their help he pushes through the enemies.   Similar occasions occur with Wrex and the Krogan, Zaeed and his mercs.  Now imagine the space battle, where the combined forces of the Galaxy are barely holding their own against the out-numbered reapers.   The Crucible is moving towards the Citadel, when a reaper diverts to try and destroy.  It looks like the weapon will be destroyed... when the SSV Leipzig, Agincourt, and Hong Kong fly in and keep the reaper from its goal.  
Things like this would be a great way of giving a pay-off to the players who've worked so hard to complete the game in full.  While the Battle of London felt very good in regards to Shepard and his push to reach the Beam, overall the battle felt a bit rushed and incomplete.  

-More missions:   I expect this to be handled with DLC (and I still feel the need to mention that any DLCs will need to come after a fixed ending in order to be viable for the fanbase).   Hopefully we'll see DLC missions that cover more than a single world/scenario.

-More NPC missions/plotlines:  I would really like to see all the characters from the previous games get a little more facetime.  Maybe even join up for a mission or two.  There's a lot of emotional investment in them all, and they deserve to have more going on than a few sidequests.

-Resolution to the Harbinger Story:  We need to have a battle against Harbinger.  He's set up as the final dragon to be overcome, with ME2 alluding to the his for most of the game.  His utter absence is a severe plothole and letdown.

Hold the Line.

Modifié par T-Zero, 22 mars 2012 - 08:19 .

[dallas666]

First of all. I really loved the rest of the game. Congratulations on a job well done.

Now, about the ending:
If the sequence with the Godchild is kept, there should be an option to reject him. For example:
- a paragon option could be used to demonstrate that he is wrong using the example of the peace between the Geth and the Quarians - that is what a paragon Shepard would do.
- a renegade option could be used just to tell him to go space himself and that you will keep fighting. - that is pretty much what a renegade Shepard would do.

I think the Citadel should have an option to disable the Reapers without disabling all the Synthetics.
Or at least weaken them for the fleet to finish them.... happy ending?

May sound cliche but surely would feel rewarding.

[cmj428]

Oh yeah and of course Tali's face.
There should be some real scene where the people who romanced Tali finally get rewarded with what they have always wanted. A chance to see Tali face to face with no Mask.
I think people where insulted and heart broken over how this was handled in the current game.

[_NF_Von_Lipwig]

EDIT: Formatting is off, but it's still readable. Sorry.

1: We did not see the forces we allied reflected in the endgame.
I would like to see that high EMS number of mine actually matter. That
was quite some gametime I poured into that, and I am amazed that Bioware
missed the opportunity to show some awesome cutscenes of assets you
acquired. I would have liked to have seen war assets such as specific
ships, soldiers from armies you gathered and so on, shown in the final
battle. Geth clearing the streets for a Krogan battlegroup while Asari
commandos covered by Turian soldiers perform a daring attack while
calling in planetary bomberdements from the Quarian Migrant Fleet, which
is defended from Reaper fire by Geth ships. Characters you know
throughout the games shown duking it out with Reapers. Some survive,
others don't. But at the very least, SHOW them. I LOVED how you can say
goodbye to them before the final mission, but I would have loved some
footage after that, just to see how they fare in the battle.


2: We did not get the range of different endings that was promised to us.
Bioware specifically stated multiple times that ME3, due to being the
the last part of the trilogy, could offer a wide variety of endings
based on the choices you made throughout the games. However, none of the
choices end up making any difference at all as you're forced into an
A/B/C ending. I would have been so much happier with the ending if it
had shown the effect of some of the things I had done, such as curing
the Genophage or uniting the Geth and the Quarians. I would have LOVED
seeing how those accomplishments affected the future of the universe.

In
fact, I would have loved to see a wide range of different endings based
on your decisions in ME1, 2 and 3, AND whether you're Renegade or
Paragon. Happy endings (everyone wins, heavy losses but total victory),
sad endings (Reapers win, everyone dies, total defeat) and everything
in-between. This doesn't even need that many extra cutscenes. Even a
text-based epilogue would have helped. (though of course cutscenes are
so much better!)


3: The ending is not congruent with the rest of the game. Both in style and in message. Mass Effect is sci-fi, but we get a semi-religious ending.

Also,
Mass Effect, throughout all its iterations, is a message of hope,
telling us that we can put aside our differences and unite in the face
of destruction. It shows us that, with enough perseverence and
determination, we can make a difference. That enemies can become
friends. That if only you fight hard enough, you can win against
overwhelming odds. That you can find love and comeraderie in the most
unexpected places.

And suddenly the ending presents us with the
supposed unavoidable war between creator-created. It tells us that this
is inevitable. All the more jarring because the game tells us the polar
opposite not hours before that when you resolve the Quarian-Geth
conflict, or when Joker and EDI get together.

Also, I think I would have preferred the Reapers to remain mysterious, their reasons unknown. Explaining the Reapers' purpose makes them mundane and detracts from their perceived threat. Especially if it is a reason that runs counter to what the game has been telling us. The Reapers are far more effective as enemies when you don't know what they want. Because if you don't know their motivations, you cannot reason with them, you cannot bargain or use diplomacy. This is their strength as the ultimate bad-guys, but with the explanation offered by the Catalyst-kid, they become mundane killing machines with a strange sense of logic.


4: Commander Shepard is totally out of character.
He gawks at the Harbinger-kid and takes everything the brat says at
face value. This is not the Shepard that has been so carefully portrayed
by Bioware throughout 3 entire games. Why this sudden character change?
It does not make sense, and it makes the final dialogue frustrating.

Here, I would like to see the option to refuse the kid's clearly false statements and tell him to stuff it. Shepard would not choose any of the options offered to him. Destroy would also destroy a race he respects and who he just offered a new future to. Synthesis homogenises everyone, which runs counter to Shepard's ideas of free will (as well as the game's obvious message that diversity is a good thing). Control is the Illusive Man's option, and I am sure Shepard would NEVER pick that.

The option to choose none of the beams and just wait it out would be a welcome one. Especially if having high enough EMS would then allow you to STILL win the war against the Reapers.


5: You don't ACTUALLY 'take Earth back'.
This is what you advertised, but it never happens. Call me soppy, but
I would have liked that victorious moment where you do the impossible
and kick the Reapers off earth. I don't mind it if you need to work
extremely hard to get this (for instance, get REALLY high EMS). But it
should be possible. A happy ending should be possible. So should a sad
ending obviously. But yeah, I would have liked to have mounted a
successful attack. But I already said this latest thing in point #2. And
of course I want to build that house on Rannoch. As I said, it should
be POSSIBLE. Just like Shepard might possibly die. Should even be LIKELY
to die unless you prepared REALLY well.

6: The plotholes. But those have been discussed to death already, so I won't go into those.





If I think of more, I'll post it in this thread.


EDIT: Of course I would like to emphasise that I enjoyed Mass Effect 1, 2 AND 3. Mass Effect 3 is far from a bad game. In fact, it is very good. Overall, the game is very well-written. It is for this reason that the ending feels like such a letdown. Without wanting to sound judgemental or unreasonable, I really do think the standard of writing of the ending is of a much lower level than the ENTIRE preceding game series. I seriously do not understand why this is the case. I have a hard time pointing at specific things in ME 3 that I loved, because there were so many great moments. I just feel that the ending doesn't do justice to the great game that is Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par _NF_Von_Lipwig, 22 mars 2012 - 12:01 .

[Miraider]

So here's the place where I can write my ideas about endings?

At first I have to say that I agree with Indoctrination theory.
After Harbinger strikes Shepard down and he wakes up, I would add some whispering voices so everybody knows, something isn't right.
On the Citadel I would leave the talk with TIM as a struggle with his consciences. Maybe even add posibility to kill Anderson. I would definitely cut Hackett comments and the talk with Anderson  if you save him and keep it to the real ending.
With god-child (or how is it called these days) I wouldn't change anything. Maybe just one thing. After Shepard choose his ending, the god-child will transform into Harbinger.
After this I would show only Normandy on the planet. This is what Shaperd hopes for, that everybody he cares for is alright and save far away from Reapers.

As you can see, there isn't much changes, but it also suggests to player that something is wrong.

After the ending sequence Shepard wakes up no matter witch ending you choose.
Different is how he wakes up.

If chosen Control or synthesis ending: Normandy and other ships (depends on EMS) starts attack on Harbinger. Harby loses concentration and doesn't finish Shepard's indoctrination. Injured Anderson finds Shepard patches him up with medi-gel and both goes to the Citadel.
If chosen Destroy ending: Shepard wakes up and walks towards the transport beam. Normandy and other ships (depends on EMS) starts attack on Harbinger. Shepard finds Anderson bleeding on the ground. Uses medi-gel on him and both goes to the Citadel.

While Shepard is going to the Citadel. Normandy continues to fight Harbinger.

If low EMS, Normandy is alone with few gunships. Normandy is destroyed (remember, all squadmates are on Earth fighting). Harbinger stays and blocks passage to the Citadel.
If EMS 2000-3999 or low EMS but Normandy upgraded: Normandy and few other bigger ships attacks Harbinger. It manages to defend itself. Normandy crashes on Earth, other ships are destroyed. Harbinger stays and blocks passage to the Citadel.
High EMS: Normandy and several dreadnoughts are able to repellent Harbinger from its position. Passage to the Citadel is free.

Shepard and Anderson are transported to the Council Chambers (in ME1 the main controls to open Citadel arms is here). It is full of dead people and Keepers are moving them. Some Keepers might attack Shepard.
After they manage to open Citadel arms, Crucible is connected and Shepard has his last talk with Anderson. (there is big window in Council Chambers so they can have spectacular view and best seats on the Citadel :-)
Then Hackett says, "Nothing happend" and Shepard reaches the controls.
Harbinger appears in front Shepard. And says the real reason why Reapers are invading galaxy every 50k years (I'll write it at the bottom).
Shepard chooses one option for one last time.
1. option - destroy synthetics: as in original all AI are destroyed and mass relays' energy is consumed to spread signal through the whole galaxy.
2. option - let Reapers continue :(is only available if chosen Control or Synthesis ending) Shepard is fully indoctrinated. Reapers continue to destroy galaxy.
Paragon option - Max reputation required: Destroyed only Reaper technology
Renegade option -Max reputation required: Reapers are only dormant so we can harness they tech.

After his final choice Shepard is slowly bleeding out. If the passage to the Citadel is free his squadmates make it in time to save him.
The rest is up to you Bioware.


The reason why Reapers are attacking:
They are the pinnacle of evolution. They were once organic too. They conquered whole galaxy and finded out there is nothing more to do. No goals to pursue, no task to accomplish. They just existed. So they decided to break this stagnation by freeing galaxy of their civilization. Leaving their best accomplishment behind(Mass relays and Citadel) for civilizations next to come. They forge themself into the Reaper form so they can look after the galaxy. Each Reaper is independent nation living in some kind of virtual world where every individual has absolute control over everything. You have to see it to understand it.
Next cycle was about 2 million years long when Reapers realised, it is evolving as their cycle. So Reaper decided to grant them salvation from stagnation through destruction. After several next cycles they figured out, there is no other way than cycle. And the best time to end the cycle was for Reapers at the apex of the civilization's glory. And with mass relays and Citadel it took only 50k years to get there.
if player played ME2:
Shepard asks why Collectors were building human Reaper.
Harbinger answers. "You are the first who stoped us from using Citadel to end the cycle. As insignificant you are, you touched our mind. We found the potential of human race and we wanted to reward your species to kept their form even as a Reaper. And you to be part of it.

Then Harbinger says: even if Shepard will destroy the Reapers, it will repeat. Shepard civilization will conquer whole galaxy and if they wouldn't change themself into Reapers they will destroy galaxy. Harbinger asks Shepard to let them finish what they started and dissapear.

If you made it to the end please comment it here

Modifié par Miraider, 22 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[DS Monkfish]

Posted this elsewhere but it seems more appropriate here:

To be honest, the whole 3-choice thing was a mistake I think. It was clumsy in Deus Ex: Human Revolution and it is clumsy here. We were never told prior to starkid's appearance that we were going choose how to deal with the Reapers, we weren't considering trying to decide on synthesis or control - we were going to the Citadel to fire the Crucible and destroy the Reapers, that's it. I'd like to see that. We can still fight to the beam, get to the control panel and activate the thing. Beef up the Harbinger bossfight, make him count as a proper Big Bad again!

Maybe the Crucible weakens the Reapers to leave them vulnerable to our fleet, with the end results of the battle being tied to the war assets we've acquired and the decisions we've made (e.g. do we have the Quarians, the Geth, or both?) Lose some team members in the ground war if your EMS is low, that kind of thing - and scrap the starkid entirely. Not happy with the explanation for the Reapers' motives anyway - I thought they were much scarier when they were unknowable horrors.

Just my thoughts, for what they're worth.

Still holding.

[cmj428]

Forgot, a final battle against Harbinger.

[Miekkas]

Bioware,

The controversy over the endings starts immediately after the death of Anderson and the introduction of the Catalyst as an AI. The Catalyst as an AI is the entire central cause of the controversy. You could could easily fix the ending by cutting out the final scenes right after Anderson dies which is where all of the controversy starts, add a cut scene of the Crucible killing the Reapers, and doing a Dragon Ago Origins ending style slide show. Shepard has blue children with Liara or dies depending of War Assets, Garrus is Primarch, etc etc....And I am willing to bet that most people would gladly accept this quick fix as an alternative to the current ending, they are so desperate for an ending that is not this one....myself included admittedly. In regards to what the Catalyst is, think of something other than introducing a deity-like AI as the main villain in the last ten minutes.

[Macen Wolf]

It might seem a little typical but I have to say I would love to have a all the way happy ending. We have all played this game and I want to see the story unfold completely.

[Qutayba]

First of all, I want to thank Ray for his comments, and I also want to really thank Jessica for maintaining such grace under pressure - give her a raise, or two.

I know it may be hard, but I hope the Mass Effect team realizes that underneath all of the vitriol you're seeing is an ardent passion for the game. Unfortunately, we don't live in a very civil culture at the moment, and internet anonymity just makes it worse. So, it's easy for people to get carried away - most of us are appalled at the personal attacks. If it's any consolation, keep in mind that "Retake" and "Hold the Line!" are YOUR creations. These were moments in the series (and the pre-game PR) that were infused with a rousing optimism, vowing to fight when the circumstances seem bleakest. This is what Mass Effect is all about! It's what the disgruntled fans have rallied around, and it's something you all should be able to rally around, too.

The reason the ending hit so many of us so jarringly is because of what a great job the team did up to that point. I have to be honest, it's really not a good ending at all, as is. It doesn't "feel" like Mass Effect (see above!). But I think the rest of the game is evidence that the team absolutely has the ability to make it right.

I know the team can't release too many details of what it's working on, but I hope that the team takes more from our feedback than the need for "closure" (in fact, it would be great if we could just drop that pop-psych term from the discussion). Yeah, there's plot holes, and slightly unfinished character arcs (although, many are finished quite masterfully), but the deeper dissatisfaction, at least for me, is thematic.

There doesn't need to be a "happy" ending. In fact, I worry that you will be tempted to go to the other extreme and give us a saccharine, condescending ending. But there needs to be something rousing. Shepard just seems so resigned when faced with these bleak, nihilistic choices.. On a philosophical level I LIKE the problem posed by the Reapers - Is an individual human life worth anything in the face of the vast incomprehensibility of the universe? It's a profound and thought-provoking problem - existential angst in its purest form.

But you need to empower the player (not just the character) to give answer to this problem. They need to be able to say, "NO! I will hold the line. I will assert the inherent meaning of my choices and the individuals I care about against the nihilism of the universe with my dying breath." Sure, make it Shepard's dying breath, but let his death be an affirmation of life, meaning, and hope.

It may be that you WANTED to have hope in the ending. If so, please take a really close look at what you gave us to understand why what we saw actually removed the hope you were trying to convey. Stranded crewmates, solar systems obliterated by relay novas (a lore point reiterated many times), questions about the fate of the galaxy and its inhabitants that are left far too open.

We know you can do this BioWare. I, for one, want to offer no prescriptions for what I expect. I think there are a myriad ways you can bring the endings back into the spirit of the ME franchise. I eagerly await to see what you come up with. I know you love this story at least as much as we do.

Modifié par Qutayba, 22 mars 2012 - 12:18 .

[Flytricks]

Jessica Merizan and all of Bioware, If what Darkiddd wrote did not touch you're hearts or make you want to try and satisfy the Fans of the Mass Effect series than you guy's truly are stone cold. I mean if there were a picture of him you know he would have had those big Pussinboots eyes. Forget what WE want the endings to be like and do what you guys do best. Fix it! You know how, you don't need us to tell you. Something had to have happened in production to let these endings... or ending as the case may be... to pass into the final product. I'm talking to all of you at Bioware read Darkiddd's post and tell me (whether you were right or wrong) that it doesn't light some kind of fire under you're butt's. You created something magicall here. To invoke this kind of passion from gamers is monumental. You trully are the best at what you do. Now show us you care as much about you're fan's as you do you're games.

[darthclide]

in light of the blog, please take a look at the following poll
http://social.biowar...5&poll_id=30216

[General Jack D. Ripper]

I apologize for the general lack of organization of the following, but I just want to strip it down to the core ideas. I will also apologize for any grammatical or spelling errors. I wrote this up very quickly.

I personally want:

Multiple endings depending on your past actions. Did you betray the Krogans? Maybe Wrex turns on you. Did the council die? Maybe the asari fleet flees to save themselves when you need them most. Did you save the collector base? Maybe it was a trap the entire time and it blows up in your face. Things like this is what we wanted to see. And for the love of jeebus, let's see the rachni in action. After being teased for 3 games, we want more than 100 war assets.


As cool as indoc theory is, I say scrap it because it's a little distracting. It may explain away the current endings, and its something that you can use to segue into the fan suggested endings, but it could be jarring for players when they're suddenly told "Nope, it was all a dream!."


While I personally hated the Reaper god child, I understand his motivations. Many fans make fun of its circular logic, but I love the idea that Reapers are actually protecting the existence of organic life from total annihilation. It's a really big picture moment that makes the player think. If the reaper child HAS to stay in, at least expand our dialogue with it. A lot of the player's angst can be solved if the reaper kid can actually acknowledge Shepard's decisions. ("Oh you THINK you solved the geth quarian war, BUT etc etc.). If the kid has to say in, at least give us the option to tell it to shove off, even if it means our death.


The reason why the fans are so upset is that the actual story branching of the ME series to date has been marginal at best. Sure, I saved the council, but the actual campaign differences between those who did and those who didn't is marginal at best. It'll get mentioned off hand, but there is no real consequences. The ending is the chance to make all our decisions come back to bite us in the ass, for good or ill. It could possibly play out like the end of the ME2 suicide mission, only in galactic scale.


And again, as countless people of iterated, we do not have a problem with bittersweet endings. In fact, I loved the tone that results from Shepard's sacrifice. If possible, I would actually like to see the current three endings preserved. I love the idea that galactic civilization has to break free from the technological path the reapers set before them. That they have to develop the maturity of FTL through their own development than piggy-backing off reaper tech.



Misc. suggestion:



This idea can serve as a possible replacement for the reaper brat and and a segue into other possible endings. Why not make the citadel itself a reaper? Maybe the first sentient organics who created the reapers merged their minds into the citadel, emphasizing its importance with firing the Crucible. The catalyst is reaper! Dun dun dun Unlikely this'll be used, but hey. This is a suggestion thread.

Modifié par General Jack D. Ripper, 22 mars 2012 - 03:00 .

[Datadog]

I don't think there's anything I can say which hasn't been said already. On its own, the game is virtually flawless. I was absorbed into the story, the combat was great, I enjoyed the multiplayer, and the cinematics were spectacular. It really is just the end that brings the whole experience to a heart-trampling halt. So here's some suggestions that would've improved my experience tenfold.

1. Having Shepard stand against the star-child's philosophy instead of mindlessly suicide-bombing the galaxy without question. One of Shepard's staples is that there's always another option, and all the actions taken thus far have already proven that all three endings are wrong.

2. Seeing my collection of war assets pay off during the final battle as the loyalty missions did in ME2 during the suicide mission. Throughout the game, I'm told to use my resources wisely, so I assumed it meant I would have to allocate various tasks to different fleets during the battle to pave my way to Earth. At the moment, collecting war assets has no discernible pay-off in the game.

3. Much like a debriefing, I'd like to see all of my choices over the three games almagamated into the epilogue with various consequences to follow. It doesn't make sense to keep track of the player's decisions and not follow up on them at the end. Some closure with the main characters would be nice, but it's really the fate of the galaxy I helped build that I'm most interested in.

4. I'm stretching here, but... a big final boss fight would be extremely welcome. I was half-expecting the Illusive Man to merge into some kind of deadly Reaper form I could shoot. Cliche, I know, but this guy's been riding my tail for three games. Me and him. Right here, right now. Gloves off.

5. In the PC version, there's a bug with the autosave which causes you to lose all money and fuel when you load up the game. You might want to look into that.

6. Before I forget... limping. That was maybe the worst part of the game. And maybe re-enable saving in the last 20 minutes? And maybe cut out the dream sequences?

Tall order, I know. But when you love a game this much, it just feels wrong to see it betray not only the players, but itself and its development team at its most critical moment in favor of an artsy ending. I think we all want to contribute to making this game 100% perfect, which is a sign of how good the rest of the game already is.

[FrozenDreamfall]

MJF JD wrote...

embrace the indoctrination theory.

Marauder Shields DLC

Lair of the Talimancer DLC

Shepard Dance Dance Revolution

Ha,best DLC ever >) I could add another one with Shepard:Randomly insults the Hanar on the Citadel.The stupid jelly fish thing was epic,but now to the real issue.



I loved the game,all 3 of them,yet the 3rd felt
very rushed and incomplete.I didn't like the fact that I personally felt
that it lacked a lot of dialogue options.We had way more decisions in
ME1 and ME2 regarding the dialogue,it feels like a lot has been cut
out.I don't complain about the endings nor wish to change them,but just
for them to give us something,anything that clarifies the situation.I
don't understand why it would've been so hard to make a "happy" ending
along with all the others,if someone wanted it to end in tragedy so be
it,if someone wanted it to end with closure and give us hope and reward
our efforts and maybe show us a possible future with our LI,so be it,the
more choices the better.Everyone would've been free to choose their own
way,the good ending seekers and the tragedy ending enthusiasts,all I'm
saying is that a little bit more would've pleased everyone.Also a big
problem for me was the lack of relationships and friendships for the ME2
characters,at this point even if they help you against the Reapers it's
like having them didn't even matter.You barely see them,barely talk to
them,you don't even see them properly in the last fight,just talk to
them on a damn VI.The ending scene,the last battle for Earth felt quite
short and rushed comparing to the fight leading up to Saren and the
Collector base.It did feel too short and that it lacked something,it
just didn't make me sense that,this is it,the last grand battle,the most
important one,I didn't get that feeling and that was needed.I speak for
myself now,my own opinion.I do not agree on others telling us "it's
just a game" or that's how it ends,you have no right to change it,deal
with it.If they feel that way good for them,I have nothing against
it,but I also wish they have nothing against us.It wasn't just Bioware's
vision and fantasy,they gave it to us,made it our own,we made it
personal and it just felt so out of control.Whatever the direction of a
game is,its not like a movie,or a book,or a painting,a game means your
own resolve,melding it the way you want to,controlling it.And I guess
many us felt like this because the lack of control we had at the end.We
were promised answers and closure,we got even more questions and
confusion in return.Again I am not saying change the endings but
Bioware we loved your games and have been loyal to you for years.We
thank you for all these wonderful experiences and this vast and amazing
virtual world,but as any other things,in the end games are a marketing
means.People buy the product and expect satisfaction,if they do not like
it they have the right to complain.Many people call games art,they
trully are,I myself am an artist and writer.But in the end games are
more than art,they are your own virtual world and only your decisions
matter.We act like this only cause we loved the games so much and put so
much hope into them.I do not wish for Bioware to suffer lawsuits or any
other complications,it is their creation and they can deal with it as
they see fit,but when they made this creation,they knew very well they'd
share it with thousands of people.This wasn't like any other games,in
Matrix or Deus EX we did not get such high choices,we were not told we
can end it how we like,that everything we did impacted the world exactly
based on our decisions and how we wanted it.Other games were stand
alone and had one linear story and play through,ME is way more than
that,it is your own story.So this is my opinion and I'm glad they are at
least listening to us and taking what we want/think in consideration.


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[residentstevil]

First I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to allow us to vent our grievances and to make constructive criticism regarding the game's finale.

I want to make it clear the overall the game was excellent.  However, like many players, I feel the ending we saw in ME 3 did not fit in well.  We're not neccessarily after the "sunshine and flowers" ending that many have insisted we are.  Some would like to have that as an option, but rather most of us want an ending that at the least makes sense, an ending that answers questions and gives us proper closure to Shepard's tale in the Mass Effect universe.  Not an ending that answers questions with more questions.

I'm not upset that in three of the four endings Shepard dies.  I was willing to accept, especially during the suicide charge towards the end that Shepard might die whether or not he accomplished the overarching goal of the franchise, breaking sentient life free from the tyranny of the cycle of death and rebirth by destroying the Reapers once and for all.  What irked me was that the endings were for the most part functionally the same and I think enough people have elaborated upon why these endings are for the most part no different from each other with exception to slight differences (colors, joker and EDI or your LI, shepard gasping for air) and bringing up narrative and continuity problems as well (Why is joker escaping, why are companions who joined you in the suicide charge with joker on the Eden planet?)

Also it's be nice to see war assets affect the final battle more than wether or not earth is burning.

If there is to be a new series of endings or if an epilogue is to be released then I'd like to see the following:

Presuming that "indoctrination theory" is  nothing more than result of over thoughtful fans desperately trying to explain the nature of the game's conclusion then DLC must explain:

Why was the Normandy fleeing the Second Battle of Earth? Was there and order from Hackett for all remaining allied vessels to retreat and escape the Sol system?  Did Joker despite having embarked upon previous missions where the odds of survival were slim at best finally give into fear and fled from the battle?

If the Mass Relays are truly destroyed, what is the fate of Allied Fleets that went to Earth?  Even with FTL travel many of these fleets will spend decades, centuries, even millenias getting back to their home systems.  

If the current ending as we know it is going to be rewritten then please get rid of the Deus Ex style ending and/or allow shepard to challenge the AI's weak  arguments. 

Modifié par residentstevil, 22 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[Dessalines]

I just want answers and clarity to some of the issues to the ending. I would like for Shepard's ending in the triology to be final. When Mass Effect 4 comes out, I do not want people complaining where is Shepard at, and if he has children with Li, then they need to be in the game. Shepards kid's could only be Asari or human. I am not sure if the other LI's can produce children, but I do not want Shepard to be like the Warden with people still clamoring for the Warden to make an appearance two games latter.
I just really believe you need to cover your bases when you are making your games. You are making the games for a very wide audiences I do not know if you have like a loremaster that reviews those scripts, but maybe you should. I still say "be a guest voice in the next Bioware game" is a great contest. It is better than winning a comic book. Yes, Virginia, I am not posting anything else until after April.

[T-Zero]

Chiming in again; take a look at darthclide's post for TSC_1's poll, Bioware.

Modifié par T-Zero, 22 mars 2012 - 01:53 .